126 replies to this topic

[VoidPointer]

Thanks for the comparison. When I take Focalin XR, that is the same dosage I take (15mg).

I guess i am looking for a alternative med to take as a break from DexMph, and was wondering if Modafinil would be a good choice. My doc does not seem to interested in prescribing Modafinil for ADHD.

[Animal]

Modifinil is very effective if used the treat the symptoms it is indicated for, primarily excessive daytime somnolence and narcolepsy. Of course if you're using it off label to try and manage ADD then don't expect miracles, though it does have some therapeutic value at 200mg + doses on an empty stomach.

Don't judge the medication as "over-rated" when you're using it for a non-indicated condition.

[mwasnidge]

Modifinil is very effective if used the treat the symptoms it is indicated for, primarily excessive daytime somnolence and narcolepsy. Of course if you're using it off label to try and manage ADD then don't expect miracles, though it does have some therapeutic value at 200mg + doses on an empty stomach.

Don't judge the medication as "over-rated" when you're using it for a non-indicated condition.

Yep, absolutely right. If you're using it off label, then you can't complain. And i'm sure Modafinil is a lot cleaner feeling than Adrafinil.

I'll still stick by the overpriced claim though!

Also, you mentioned in your post to Heisenberg about supplementing with Tyrosine. Did you mean on the days off or along with the Ritalin? I think I might add Arctic Root Rhodiola on my days off because, to be honest, I did feel pretty good while using it, but then became overly wary about the potential MAOI properties.

Edited by mwasnidge, 18 April 2010 - 09:15 PM.

[mwasnidge]

Thanks for the comparison. When I take Focalin XR, that is the same dosage I take (15mg).

I guess i am looking for a alternative med to take as a break from DexMph, and was wondering if Modafinil would be a good choice. My doc does not seem to interested in prescribing Modafinil for ADHD.

I don't know the severity of your symptoms, but I only use Focalin Monday thru Friday and take the weekend off completely. It's actually a welcome break and I can cope with my symptoms when I don't have anything major going on!

I have read that ADHD meds are taking the route of being based on nicotinic receptor research. Maybe a low dose nicotine patch would help on your days off?

Also, guanfacine or the extended release Intuniv can be used in conjunction with stimulants and might be a decent standalone treatment.

Edited by mwasnidge, 18 April 2010 - 09:04 PM.

[chrono]

Personally (from my few experiences with it) I would say that modafinil is useful for ADD, but not as automatically and completely as AMP/MPH. It's a trade-off, and some doctors are more willing to prescribe it than psychostims.

There have been a number of studies for this application (search modafinil AND adhd[mesh] on pubmed), so I think it's indicated to a certain degree.

alpha-2a drugs like guanfacine may be worth looking into, as well.

Edited by chrono, 18 April 2010 - 09:05 PM.

[mwasnidge]

Personally (from my few experiences with it) I would say that modafinil is useful for ADD, but not as automatically and completely as AMP/MPH. It's a trade-off, and some doctors are more willing to prescribe it than psychostims.

There have been a number of studies for this application (search modafinil AND adhd[mesh] on pubmed), so I think it's indicated to a certain degree.

alpha-2a drugs like guanfacine may be worth looking into, as well.

Chrono, I just edited my post to include guanfacine just as you were posting yours. I would really like to try Intuniv along with the Focalin because I have heard it can enhance the effects safely while at the same time minimizing side effects like anxiety. My doctor won't add a new med until I am stable on Focalin and am finished titrating the dose upwards, understandably.

[Heisenberg]

Modifinil is very effective if used the treat the symptoms it is indicated for, primarily excessive daytime somnolence and narcolepsy. Of course if you're using it off label to try and manage ADD then don't expect miracles, though it does have some therapeutic value at 200mg + doses on an empty stomach.

Don't judge the medication as "over-rated" when you're using it for a non-indicated condition.

Yep, absolutely right. If you're using it off label, then you can't complain. And i'm sure Modafinil is a lot cleaner feeling than Adrafinil.

I'll still stick by the overpriced claim though!

Also, you mentioned in your post to Heisenberg about supplementing with Tyrosine. Did you mean on the days off or along with the Ritalin? I think I might add Arctic Root Rhodiola on my days off because, to be honest, I did feel pretty good while using it, but then became overly wary about the potential MAOI properties.

I am supplementing Ritalin with L-Tyrosine (2 x 750mg), and feel it adds a "clean", focused feeling. I had pretty dismal results with Rhodiola AND Ritalin, so I would not suggest you use the two of them together.

[mwasnidge]

Modifinil is very effective if used the treat the symptoms it is indicated for, primarily excessive daytime somnolence and narcolepsy. Of course if you're using it off label to try and manage ADD then don't expect miracles, though it does have some therapeutic value at 200mg + doses on an empty stomach.

Don't judge the medication as "over-rated" when you're using it for a non-indicated condition.

Yep, absolutely right. If you're using it off label, then you can't complain. And i'm sure Modafinil is a lot cleaner feeling than Adrafinil.

I'll still stick by the overpriced claim though!

Also, you mentioned in your post to Heisenberg about supplementing with Tyrosine. Did you mean on the days off or along with the Ritalin? I think I might add Arctic Root Rhodiola on my days off because, to be honest, I did feel pretty good while using it, but then became overly wary about the potential MAOI properties.

I am supplementing Ritalin with L-Tyrosine (2 x 750mg), and feel it adds a "clean", focused feeling. I had pretty dismal results with Rhodiola AND Ritalin, so I would not suggest you use the two of them together.

Thanks man. I just ran to Vitamin Shoppe and picked up Solgar L-Tyrosine! No anxiety at all? I tried ALCAR with Focalin, but the anxiety was a bit too much.

[Heisenberg]

Modifinil is very effective if used the treat the symptoms it is indicated for, primarily excessive daytime somnolence and narcolepsy. Of course if you're using it off label to try and manage ADD then don't expect miracles, though it does have some therapeutic value at 200mg + doses on an empty stomach.

Don't judge the medication as "over-rated" when you're using it for a non-indicated condition.

Yep, absolutely right. If you're using it off label, then you can't complain. And i'm sure Modafinil is a lot cleaner feeling than Adrafinil.

I'll still stick by the overpriced claim though!

Also, you mentioned in your post to Heisenberg about supplementing with Tyrosine. Did you mean on the days off or along with the Ritalin? I think I might add Arctic Root Rhodiola on my days off because, to be honest, I did feel pretty good while using it, but then became overly wary about the potential MAOI properties.

I am supplementing Ritalin with L-Tyrosine (2 x 750mg), and feel it adds a "clean", focused feeling. I had pretty dismal results with Rhodiola AND Ritalin, so I would not suggest you use the two of them together.

Thanks man. I just ran to Vitamin Shoppe and picked up Solgar L-Tyrosine! No anxiety at all? I tried ALCAR with Focalin, but the anxiety was a bit too much.

I cannot comment on Focalin. Though very much related, I believe it is quite a different animal than Ritalin. L-Tyrosine gives me no anxiety at all, just a clean boost. I actually prefer it to ALCAR, as it seems a little more subtle to me.

[Guacamolium]

Hi, I am contacting you directly as I feel starting this conversation would detract from your original thread.

I would be interested what else is contraindicated with ritalin, apart from pyritinol. I have started with piracetam a few months ago in addition to ritalin, and am slowly adding other nootropics, some with mixed results (such as pyritinol and sulbutiamine). Could you point me to a resource online where I could cross check the supplements I take with ritalin?

Many thanks,
H

Forget about pyritinol if your consumption of ritalin is sustained regularly.

You'll have to discover the greatness of it in a bereft-time of the greatness with Ritalin. Much what I now have to juggle - that is, if pyritinol hits you like it does me.

Your basic concern is what NOT to take with Ritalin, and wow man that can be a very large number of things. Remember that I started that topic as a user of most cognitive enhancers that was inexperienced WITH Ritalin-based CE'ing things.

As long as you're taking your fish/krill/seal oil and proper B vitamin supplementation, piracetam should be fine. You kinda have to specify more about your mechanistic needs other than contraindications - which is any vasodilating substance like gingko, vinco, or Hydergine, for example.

Also, this would have been completely fine mentioned in the thread as far as I'm concerned, but I love questions just as much as the next person, so bombs-away! (this ironically had to be posted here, because the PM system wasn't working - lulz.)

Along with ritalin I have taken:

150mg Picamilon (1 capsule) - before breakfast -> nervousness
800-1600mg Piracetam (1-2 capsules) -> OK
300-600mg Alpha GPC (1-2 capsules) -> nervousness, unfocusedness, crash symptoms
1-2 capsules Alpha Lipoic Acid (300mg) and Acetyl L-Carnitine (500mg) -> OK, enhanced effect
1 capsule Phosphatidylserine complex (100mg Phosphatidylserine) -> OK, enhanced effect. 2 capsules are too much.
750mg L-Tyrosine (1 capsule) -> very good combination with ritalin I believe.
400mg Pyritinol (1 capsule) -> not OK
400-600mg Sulbutiamine (2-3 capsules) -> same symptoms as with alpha GPC
450mg Bacopa (2 tablets) -> OK, if taken about 1-2 hours after ritalin
570mg Ashwaganda (1 tablet) -> OK if taken about 1-2 hours after ritalin
400-600mg Lion's Mane (2-3 tablets) -> no effect during the day, but taken before bedtime, I find it effective
1000mg Taurine (1 capsule) -> taken before bedtime, enhances sleep quality
3-5mg Melatonin (1 tablet) -> OK
700mg Rhodiola Rosea -> manic feeling
1.2g Eleuthero root -> OK
600mg Milk Thistle extract -> supposed to assist ritalin, make it more effective.

Which one of these would anyone find contraindicated?

Again, I would strongly advise against taking amphetamines to wake up. I religiously try to get enough sleep, and when I do not, I try to at least focus my energy for a few minutes in the morning or to exercise to overcome tiredness.

Just pyritinol it looks like. I'm not understanding the milk thistle = greater ritalin response. Does this have to do with first-pass metabolism?

[Heisenberg]

Have you started with your new regimen includign Ritalin? Interested to hear your reports.

[Guacamolium]

Have you started with your new regimen includign Ritalin? Interested to hear your reports.

Hmmm, only once so far.

10mg Ritalin
300mg NALT
ZMA (I don't have Zinc Gluconate on hand yet)

Once the initial effects kicked in I added:

50mg Geranamine (DMAA)


Here's my rationale for doing that; NALT increases dopamine quantities via the DAT, which means when you read below, I should've dosed this earlier.
Ritalin works by disabling mainly the DAT thus not allowing reuptake of dopamine back into the vesicles.

I also read somewhere that Zinc gluconate that crosses the BBB cleaves anions off of the DAT's for some reason rendering them for repair. I kinda skimmed through that part.
If anybody can explain the role of zinc gluconate and the DAT, please elucidate for me if I'm inaccurate about that.

As Ritalin partially deactivates the NA transporters as well (to my knowledge) this can be bolstered by adding geranamine, which its main MOA is to deactivate the NAT, therefore fully trapping both DA and NE between the synapses longer than usual.


Worked really well for 10mg, but I did have a slight memory retrieval problem and narrow intellect, so Alpha-GPC will be going in there next time.

I'm still quite not sure about piracetam, on one hand - it helps communication between the hemispheres, allowing the creativity that Ritalin generally seems to take away; on the other hand though, it's such a non-specific AMPA modulator to efficiently perform the AMPAergic tasks, which leads me to think that if I combine piracetam for the inter-hemispherical communication and a more specific one like oxiracetam(or CX-1739 ahem), then I'll get a winning combo.

Adding an NMDA modulator like memantine is intriguing. I seem to recall FunkOdyssey having very positive reviews of it as a standalone I believe, but TBH I think magnesium taurate and glycine will suffice for that purpose - at least enough to justify cost.

I'll go back over this thread of other peoples winning ADHD cognitive enhancement stacks for further ideas. I've been fairly busy lately with moving.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

[Heisenberg]

Interesting, thanks for the update somethingtoxic.

I did take a Ritalin break over the weekend (3 days), and instead took my usual stack (sans Ritalin) and pyritinol, all in all: 800mg of Piracetam twice, 100mg of Phosphatidylserine twice, Alpha Lipoic Acid (300mg) and Acetyl L-Carnitine (500mg) each twice, 750mg L-Tyrosine twice, along with 400mg Pyritinol once in the morning, and Rhodiola.

First of all, I remembered why I was taking Ritalin in the first place. After one day or so my mind started to wander off from time to time. As it was a weekend and I was only doing light reading, it did not matter much. However, there were several effects of the stack that I had not experienced before, namely a clearness of thought, as if things seemed actually completely easy to grasp (I was reading about quantitative corporate finance valuation methods). I was thinking to myself: "OK, THIS is what Piracetam is supposed to feel like!". The effect lasted several hours, but was not replicable the next day two days. I am not sure what to attribute it to.

On the third day, I added 300mg of Alpha-GPC to the stack, still without Ritalin. It introduced a jittery, nervous feeling that was generally unproductive. After an hour or so, light nausea set in. This was the same that I had experienced when I was taking Alpha-GPC with Ritalin, so I will not repeat that. It may not be fore me after all.

In general, I did not feel as focused as with Ritalin, but I am missing the clearness of thought that seems to be sacrificed for the laser focus induced by methylphenidate. It can develop into tunnel vision if I take higher dosages than 15mg daily, which is effective but unpleasant for everybody else around. Possibly the methylphenidate subdues the effect of Piracetam. Can anyone comment on this?

[Guacamolium]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

If I could afford memantine, I'd definitely try it. Everywhere I look - it's expensive.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

If I could afford memantine, I'd definitely try it. Everywhere I look - it's expensive.

alldaychemist? Its $21 for a month's supply.

[Logan]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

So you aren't using Memantine at the moment, correct? Have you used it before? If so, what was your experience?

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

So you aren't using Memantine at the moment, correct? Have you used it before? If so, what was your experience?

I'm not using at the moment. I have used it before and it made my thinking clearer and improved my video game playing performance (lol) when taken alone.

I stopped because I thought it was causing me anxiety, but it later turned out that I was taking too much thyroid hormone, so it wasn't the memantine after all. I've been planning to start up again soon, especially now that I'm using focalin somewhat regularly.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 22 April 2010 - 08:47 PM.

[Heisenberg]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

So you aren't using Memantine at the moment, correct? Have you used it before? If so, what was your experience?

I'm not using at the moment. I have used it before and it made my thinking clearer and improved my video game playing performance (lol) when taken alone.

I stopped because I thought it was causing me anxiety, but it later turned out that I was taking too much thyroid hormone, so it wasn't the memantine after all. I've been planning to start up again soon, especially now that I'm using focalin somewhat regularly.

Have you compared memantine and hydergine, and have you noticed any other adverse effects when taken along with d-methylphenidate?

Edited by Heisenberg, 22 April 2010 - 09:17 PM.

[mwasnidge]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

So you aren't using Memantine at the moment, correct? Have you used it before? If so, what was your experience?

I'm not using at the moment. I have used it before and it made my thinking clearer and improved my video game playing performance (lol) when taken alone.

I stopped because I thought it was causing me anxiety, but it later turned out that I was taking too much thyroid hormone, so it wasn't the memantine after all. I've been planning to start up again soon, especially now that I'm using focalin somewhat regularly.

I'd be interested on hearing updates on that. I saw a while ago that you had tried Focalin and was planning on going back to it. Is it still as effective as you remember? How much are you taking? Also, I'm planning on starting LDN soon--there's no problem with dexmethylphenidate and LDN, right? Or LDN with anything, actually?

[Logan]

I'm really interested to see more reports of the combination of memantine and methylphenidate (or dexmethylphenidate). Thus far all of the psychostimulant/memantine feedback I've seen is related to amphetamines. I may try it myself after I finish bumping up the LDN to 4.5mg.

So you aren't using Memantine at the moment, correct? Have you used it before? If so, what was your experience?

I'm not using at the moment. I have used it before and it made my thinking clearer and improved my video game playing performance (lol) when taken alone.

I stopped because I thought it was causing me anxiety, but it later turned out that I was taking too much thyroid hormone, so it wasn't the memantine after all. I've been planning to start up again soon, especially now that I'm using focalin somewhat regularly.

Thanks

[Logan]

Anyone think this may apply to Memantine. I believe Memantine does decrease amyloid beta peptides, but does it increase potentially harmful peptides?


http://www.naturalne...ain_damage.html

I think Mike is a bit too radical and extreme in many of his views, but he does use a good source for making his argument.

[FunkOdyssey]

Have you compared memantine and hydergine, and have you noticed any other adverse effects when taken along with d-methylphenidate?

Haven't tried either of these combinations yet. I'll never try hydergine as I have no interest in it.

I'd be interested on hearing updates on that. I saw a while ago that you had tried Focalin and was planning on going back to it. Is it still as effective as you remember? How much are you taking? Also, I'm planning on starting LDN soon--there's no problem with dexmethylphenidate and LDN, right? Or LDN with anything, actually?

I take 7.5mg of Focalin XR and occasionally 2-4mg of Focalin IR (I split a 10mg tablet into uneven quarters). It is as effective as the first time I used it, however I take it sporadically.

LDN only interacts with opiate drugs, it induces withdrawal from them (during the opiate receptor blockade) and then potentiates them once the LDN is out of your system. There is a theoretical possibility that it may increase the rewarding effects of alcohol as these seem to be mediated in part by beta-endorphin release.

There are no other interactions of any kind with any drug or supplement.

[Animal]

I intend to experiment with both LDN and Ritalin in the future, primarily for energy promoting reasons. Could you comment on the effectiveness of each for this purpose please Funk, cheers.

[FunkOdyssey]

They both effectively give you energy, I'm not sure what you are looking for. I suppose you could make the distinction that LDN provides a natural feeling type of energy whereas ritalin feels like you're artificially jacked up on something, depending on your dosage. I didn't like ritalin for that reason and prefer focalin.

[FunkOdyssey]

It occurred to me that not only would memantine make sense to use with dexmethylphenidate but it may also prevent desensitization to the enjoyable effects of the high levels of beta-endorphin produced by LDN. The most thoroughly documented use of memantine to prevent drug tolerance is in relation to opiate drugs. The three drugs together might be this amazing trifecta of amazingness.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 24 April 2010 - 04:12 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Let us all know how it goes FunkOdyssey!

So my second official attempt will be this:


300mg NALT
500mg ALCArginate

20 minutes later:

10mg Ritalin
30mg ZMA
50mg caffeine
250mg glycine ( )
500mg taurine (poor mans memantine)

15-20 minutes later:

50mg Geranamine (DMAA)


I'll let you guys know how it goes. Ritalin last time lasted 3 hours and maybe a few minutes.

[VoidPointer]

I have found that it is best to not combine MPH/DexMPH with caffeine, as caffeine may contribute to a more 'jittery' feeling.

On my medicated days(15 mg Focalin XR) I take Zinc , Magnesium and DMAE. Drinking some Beet juice reduces BP & resting heart rate and fish oil may reduce some side effects as well.
I tend to eat less while taking DexMPH, and go with whey protein shakes with frozen blueberries & organic coca powder.
I will sip some greet tea, but its caffeine content is fairly low and may be offset by Theanine.

Focalin XR usually lasts about 11-12 hours, and I find it very effective for inattentive ADD, particularly for more complex problem solving.

At the end of the day I will take a 5 min cold shower to cool down, and 3 mg melatonin w Theanine.
With that late day regimen I usually have no trouble sleeping and generally feel good the following day.

[Logan]

I have found that it is best to not combine MPH/DexMPH with caffeine, as caffeine may contribute to a more 'jittery' feeling.

On my medicated days(15 mg Focalin XR) I take Zinc , Magnesium and DMAE. Drinking some Beet juice reduces BP & resting heart rate and fish oil may reduce some side effects as well.
I tend to eat less while taking DexMPH, and go with whey protein shakes with frozen blueberries & organic coca powder.
I will sip some greet tea, but its caffeine content is fairly low and may be offset by Theanine.

Focalin XR usually lasts about 11-12 hours, and I find it very effective for inattentive ADD, particularly for more complex problem solving.

At the end of the day I will take a 5 min cold shower to cool down, and 3 mg melatonin w Theanine.
With that late day regimen I usually have no trouble sleeping and generally feel good the following day.

Does your whey have casein? If it is purely an isolate I think it should be casein free. I ask because I believe I remember reading that the casein in milk may inhibit the beneficial nutrients in both cocoa and blueberries.

[Heisenberg]

I have found that it is best to not combine MPH/DexMPH with caffeine, as caffeine may contribute to a more 'jittery' feeling.

On my medicated days(15 mg Focalin XR) I take Zinc , Magnesium and DMAE. Drinking some Beet juice reduces BP & resting heart rate and fish oil may reduce some side effects as well.
I tend to eat less while taking DexMPH, and go with whey protein shakes with frozen blueberries & organic coca powder.
I will sip some greet tea, but its caffeine content is fairly low and may be offset by Theanine.

Focalin XR usually lasts about 11-12 hours, and I find it very effective for inattentive ADD, particularly for more complex problem solving.

At the end of the day I will take a 5 min cold shower to cool down, and 3 mg melatonin w Theanine.
With that late day regimen I usually have no trouble sleeping and generally feel good the following day.

I believe the jittery effects from caffeine can be mitigated by taking only a very low dose (10-20mg). This way I have found it to potentiate the effect of Ritalin, taken about 30 minutes after Ritalin administration. Sipping green tea is also a good idea, I feel it complements Ritalin well for some reason.