126 replies to this topic

[Guacamolium]

Let us all know how it goes FunkOdyssey!

So my second official attempt will be this:


300mg NALT
500mg ALCArginate

20 minutes later:

10mg Ritalin
30mg ZMA
50mg caffeine
250mg glycine ( )
500mg taurine (poor mans memantine)

15-20 minutes later:








50mg Geranamine (DMAA)


I'll let you guys know how it goes. Ritalin last time lasted 3 hours and maybe a few minutes.

Stack was good, nothing too special though.

[Guacamolium]

Has anyone tried ephedrine and MPH?

Wondering how that does, seeing how I have plenty of ephedrine. I'd definitely need an aspirin though to combat the vasoconstriction.

[VoidPointer]

That (10 mg) is a fairly low dose of MPH. Have you tried a higher dose by itself with no caffeine?

I took 36 mg Concerta the other day, rather than Focalin XR, and it worked very well. It lasted about 13 hours and I was able to work for at least 11 of those.

green tea is a great combination..

[Guacamolium]

That (10 mg) is a fairly low dose of MPH. Have you tried a higher dose by itself with no caffeine?

I took 36 mg Concerta the other day, rather than Focalin XR, and it worked very well. It lasted about 13 hours and I was able to work for at least 11 of those.

green tea is a great combination..

Well, under my insurance plan I had to start with Strattera. (because obviously I'm wanting the good stuff to sell or get high with [rolls eyes]) Then after two more doctor visits of complaining that Strattera just plain SUCKS, he prescribed me 60 10mg MPH's, and I don't want him to think I'm upping his recommended dose by consuming 30mg and coming back wanting more, so I'm trying to use the vast armada of supplements I do have on hand to make the most out of MPH for now. I'm really interested in Focalin though.

Problem is that I passed that ADHD test they give, which makes this way more difficult, but I really do have a horrible habit of procrastinating, and/or starting something and leaving it unfinished, and modafinil was a god-send, but $2+ a pill is ridiculous. Also Adderall, Vyvanase, and Focalin aren't available through offshore pharmacies, leaving me with generic MPH 10mg's.

I'll look up Concerta - heard of it, but thought it was just MPH.

[chrono]

10mg is a pretty low dose of ritalin. Maybe try to create the impression that it's pretty good, and ask about other options at a later visit (which seems to be the case).

Sounds like you have a lot of the same symptoms as me ADD-wise. The medical understanding is slightly biased out of our favor, as we're considered a subtype of ADHD ("inattentive without hyperactivity"). See this paper for an excellent discussion on why they're probably very separate conditions, and the distinguishing factors. It also suggests that people with ADD have more success with adderall than ritalin. This is very much in line with my experience; 20mg of ritalin does very little for me in terms of motivation/focus/etc., but 10mg of adderall makes me hyperfocused and almost too motivated. My experience is that dopaminergics help most in this area.

Regarding your stack, you could bump ALCAR up to 1000mg pretty easily? And you could potentially double the NALT as well, I'm just trying this out and finding that a pleasant dose if I have something stimulating to counter the slight wooliness.

Edited by chrono, 27 April 2010 - 04:07 PM.

[Guacamolium]

10mg is a pretty low dose of ritalin. Maybe try to create the impression that it's pretty good, and ask about other options at a later visit (which seems to be the case).

Sounds like you have a lot of the same symptoms as me ADD-wise. The medical understanding is slightly biased out of our favor, as we're considered a subtype of ADHD ("inattentive without hyperactivity"). See this paper for an excellent discussion on why they're probably very separate conditions, and the distinguishing factors. It also suggests that people with ADD have more success with adderall than ritalin. This is very much in line with my experience; 20mg of ritalin does very little for me in terms of motivation/focus/etc., but 10mg of adderall makes me hyperfocused and almost too motivated. My experience is that dopaminergics help most in this area.

Regarding your stack, you could bump ALCAR up to 1000mg pretty easily? And you could potentially double the NALT as well, I'm just trying this out and finding that a pleasant dose if I have something stimulating to counter the slight wooliness.

Interesting article, when I was a kid I KNOW I had ADHD, because I was the most hyper person in the class but didn't focus on whatever studies were going on. Now I'm mellow as hell but have severe motivation problems - and I don't even smoke pot!!!

Anyways, yeah, I can use regular ALCAR since I have a kilo of it and NALT since I have almost a lifetimes supply of that as well. Thanks for the suggestion Chrono. BTW, you haven't seen Marle or Ayla around lately, have you?

[chrono]

Interesting article, when I was a kid I KNOW I had ADHD, because I was the most hyper person in the class but didn't focus on whatever studies were going on. Now I'm mellow as hell but have severe motivation problems - and I don't even smoke pot!!!

Anyways, yeah, I can use regular ALCAR since I have a kilo of it and NALT since I have almost a lifetimes supply of that as well. Thanks for the suggestion Chrono. BTW, you haven't seen Marle or Ayla around lately, have you?

Ha! I was starting to think no one here had any culture ^_^ But no, I haven't seen them much the past few years. I figure I'll get in touch when my social anxiety issue is sorted out a little better.

I wasn't trying to say you should replace the arginate with regular ALCAR, just that 1g is a better dose for me (sometimes 1.5g), and might help increase vigilance. I use a combination of piracetam/ALCAR right now, and it helps me stay on one (even difficult) task tremendously well, instead of flitting from one to the next. Though it does little for motivation, but combining it with a DA/NE drug like ritalin might help.

I'm curious what your take on ephedrine is, either alone or in combination. Someone on M&M suggested it to me in the context of trying to deconstruct my response to adderall to find a replacement regimen for some of its effects. Maybe I'll pick some up at CVS next time I get a shopping cart of matchbooks ^_-

[Guacamolium]

Ha! I was starting to think no one here had any culture ^_^ But no, I haven't seen them much the past few years. I figure I'll get in touch when my social anxiety issue is sorted out a little better.

I wasn't trying to say you should replace the arginate with regular ALCAR, just that 1g is a better dose for me (sometimes 1.5g), and might help increase vigilance. I use a combination of piracetam/ALCAR right now, and it helps me stay on one (even difficult) task tremendously well, instead of flitting from one to the next. Though it does little for motivation, but combining it with a DA/NE drug like ritalin might help.

I'm curious what your take on ephedrine is, either alone or in combination. Someone on M&M suggested it to me in the context of trying to deconstruct my response to adderall to find a replacement regimen for some of its effects. Maybe I'll pick some up at CVS next time I get a shopping cart of matchbooks ^_-

FunkOdyssey suggested for me 1.5 gram dosing about a year ago based on a study(too lazy to fetch right now), that'd probably be what I'd take. Can't afford to be doing that with ALCARginate though. Not worth the cost/benefit ratio.

I take ephedrine for jogging. It opens up my lungs so much that I don't have to breathe heavily to jog a few miles. Since that is when I take it, I also take the infamous ECAY stack with it but heavily modified. Ephedrine, Cytomel, Caffeine, Aspirin, Yohimbine, NALT, Coleus, Chocamine, Yerba Mate, Green Tea, and Guarana. The Cytomel you have to cycle 1 month on, 1 month off. Caffeine/Chocamine/Yerba Mate/Green tea/and guarana are just for the fullest xanthine profile possible - don't really know if it works better as opposed to just taking caffeine, but I get less jittery and apprehensive with all those xanthines fighting for enzymic absorption - weird how that works. Yohimbine gives me crazy anxiety though, which sucks. All of the above hasn't much to do with LE or nootropics - just bodybuilding/exercise.

I still am curious about trying:

10mg MPH
25mg Ephedrine

Wonder what that'll do...

[VoidPointer]

Concerta is a high-tech extended release MPH. It last the longest of the XR type medications(IMO) and the delivery is smooth.

I would not want to combine ephedrine and MPH, as it might exaggerate the 'physical' aspects of MPH and increase BP and heart rate.

I have heard nothing good about Strattera.. It is funny that they promote it as a 'safer' alternative for ADD/ADHD, but in reality it has more reported side effects than MPH and is significantly less effective.

[chrono]

Yeah, the arginate is a ripoff. Could probably buy another 3 things which enhance NGF/neurite outgrowth more for the additional cost over regular ALCAR.

Was wondering more about the mental effects of ephedrine. Seen a couple of threads here suggesting it's a great study aid for some, but others find it counterproductive and physically overstimulating.

Would be curious about the effect when combined with MPH. I guess, start at low dosages, in case it's an over-stimulating combination.

[Guacamolium]

Ephedrine as a study aid is probably best described as crude. I'd say it's better than nothing personally.

I'm still debating the MPH + ephedrine combo though...

[Guacamolium]

Well today my stack was:

820mg NALT (yup, went that high)
2g ALCAR

Waited about 30 minutes and -

10mg MPH
25mg Ephedrine Sulfate
25mg Geranamine


I took it at 7:30 CST and it was the best stack so far with such a low of a dose of MPH. The addition of ephedrine was definitely a good idea. I probably should just show my doctor this thread and he'd roll his eyes and write me out a script for Adderall or Focalin for all the trouble I'm going through to focus on what I need to be doing, like finishing up one business plan and starting another.

I have one 5mg Deprenyl tab left somewhere, next try would be 2.5mg Deprenyl with 10mg MPH. (obviously no ephedrine)

[Tukotih Doji]

Wrote this in the Ritalin vs. Modafinil thread. But it might interest you guys aswell.

Well, i used Ritalin for a period.
I buyed it off a friend, I'm 100% sure that I have minor ADD and have got an evaluation but my parents (Age 15 when evaluated) didn't think the problem was big enough to give in such a "dangerous" medicine. (Back then you required a special license from the Swedish FDA.)
I insnufflated 20mg the first time and got a lot of euphoria. (I was in a major but short depression at the time, Ritalin helped me recover without doubt)
I danced, listening to very loud techno music. Then studied when the euphoria got off maybe 40min afterwards. Then had a hard time sleeping about 4h in. I fell asleep maybe 5.5h after insnufflation.
The euphoria never got back in the same way, I built up a pretty heavy tolerance after the first use. (Could have been the depression, I'm not sure.)

I used 20mg and 40mg XR a few times in school but stopped since I got these horrible stomach-pains.
Today I use Aniracetam, Centrophenoxine/DMAE, Pyritinol and Vinpocetine. (Get Smart from Smart Nutrition)
I get the same focusing effect of 2 caps in the morning as I would get from 20mg of XR Ritalin. Although I prefer taking one in the morning with coffee and one with lunch.

The thing with the grades is a very confusing thing, some get the euphoria and doesn't develop a tolerance for it, leading to a disinterest in doing their homework since they want to live their life.
I notice that after insnufflating methylphenidate (The active substance in Ritalin) you don't want to do your homework for the first 20-50min. Then, when the slight euphoria disappears, you become a little more normal. Still, you wont automaticly put your nose in the books. But once you've begun reading, you won't stop untill disturbed or finished

I'd love to try modafinil, a friend told me it felt like 5 cups of coffee without any major side-effects. (High dose)
Although, he mentioned Ritalin was far better for getting shit done.

[chrono]

I probably should just show my doctor this thread and he'd roll his eyes and write me out a script for Adderall or Focalin for all the trouble I'm going through to focus on what I need to be doing, like finishing up one business plan and starting another.

I would just say that it helps keep your mind from wandering, but that you have an extremely hard time completing tasks, and being motivated to do certain types of things? Unless your doc wants to up the dose first or try dex-MPH, it's probably the next logical step.

[Guacamolium]

I probably should just show my doctor this thread and he'd roll his eyes and write me out a script for Adderall or Focalin for all the trouble I'm going through to focus on what I need to be doing, like finishing up one business plan and starting another.

I would just say that it helps keep your mind from wandering, but that you have an extremely hard time completing tasks, and being motivated to do certain types of things? Unless your doc wants to up the dose first or try dex-MPH, it's probably the next logical step.

Wise words, I'll probably just go up to 20 mg of MPH and reduce the ephedrine in half and keep the NALT/ALCAR, gearanime, and obligatory aspirin. I'd love my conservative doctor (which seems to comprise the majority) see what we do jsut to INCREASE the effectiveness of molecules using pubmed and other people who go through this crap. Fucking Strattera, you owe me 40 bucks!

[chrono]

Fucking Strattera, you owe me 40 bucks!

LOL.

Was just going to ask if upping the dose to 20 or 30mg gives you any added benefit, or just more of the same. For me, higher doses just give me a little more energy and that low-level euphoria. Which is fine I guess, but doesn't do a damn thing for my type of ADD.

[Guacamolium]

Fucking Strattera, you owe me 40 bucks!

LOL.

Was just going to ask if upping the dose to 20 or 30mg gives you any added benefit, or just more of the same. For me, higher doses just give me a little more energy and that low-level euphoria. Which is fine I guess, but doesn't do a damn thing for my type of ADD.

Modafinil actually makes me vigilant as all hell for 9 hours - and I have no clue if they've discovered that kind of ADD yet, but MPH does help me focus somewhat well in a different sort of organizational way. More focus and vigilance at whatever tasks in 9 hours. I'll be upping to 20mg MPH either tomorrow morning or Sunday morning with the add-ons. I'll update like clockwork purple.

[rvdvaart]

Let us all know how it goes FunkOdyssey!

So my second official attempt will be this:


300mg NALT
500mg ALCArginate

20 minutes later:

10mg Ritalin
30mg ZMA
50mg caffeine
250mg glycine ( )
500mg taurine (poor mans memantine)

15-20 minutes later:

50mg Geranamine (DMAA)


I'll let you guys know how it goes. Ritalin last time lasted 3 hours and maybe a few minutes.

Do NOT ever take Ritalin and caffeine together. That's really bad for your heart not to mention the terrible anxiety you can get.

[Guacamolium]

Do NOT ever take Ritalin and caffeine together. That's really bad for your heart not to mention the terrible anxiety you can get.

I didn't get anxiety from that, but I bet ephedrine plus MPH is worse for the heart.

I didn't mention that I jog anywhere from 2-11 miles per day, and I take D-ribose in large amounts. =D

[chrono]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems. Since it's, what, the most commonly used drug in the world? I would assume prescribers would say something about this. I've heard many people say it causes them anxiety though, which I readily believe, as caffeine by itself gives me anxiety even at 10-20mg. I agree that ephedrine is probably worse, since I've heard that concern about it by itself in higher dosages.

Btw, if you're getting any jitters or overstimulation from these combinations, I've been finding that a low dose (50mg) of L-theanine works pretty well to obviate my caffeine overstimulation. And it doesn't make me tired like slightly higher dosages can.

Can you say anything about D-ribose? I couldn't find many reports about it. Does it have any application for general alertness and mental energy/cognitive enhancement, or is it more useful for physical exertion?

Edited by chrono, 30 April 2010 - 05:04 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems. Since it's, what, the most commonly used drug in the world? I would assume prescribers would say something about this. I've heard many people say it causes them anxiety though, which I readily believe, as caffeine by itself gives me anxiety even at 10-20mg. I agree that ephedrine is probably worse, since I've heard that concern about it by itself in higher dosages.

Btw, if you're getting any jitters or overstimulation from these combinations, I've been finding that a low dose (50mg) of L-theanine works pretty well to obviate my caffeine overstimulation. And it doesn't make me tired like slightly higher dosages can.

Can you say anything about D-ribose? I couldn't find many reports about it. Does it have any application for general alertness and mental energy/cognitive enhancement, or is it more useful for physical exertion?

Oh man, I love L - Theanine, but I'm out. =)

D-ribose is for muscle ATP generation. You could conceivably take 10 grams and run a mile withouth that burining sensation, but your oxygen levels would be an issue - which is another solution altogether. D-ribose though is VERY good for heart function, nbut, I took it to win battles instead. Good for jogging though if you have the money.

[Guacamolium]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems. Since it's, what, the most commonly used drug in the world? I would assume prescribers would say something about this. I've heard many people say it causes them anxiety though, which I readily believe, as caffeine by itself gives me anxiety even at 10-20mg. I agree that ephedrine is probably worse, since I've heard that concern about it by itself in higher dosages.

Btw, if you're getting any jitters or overstimulation from these combinations, I've been finding that a low dose (50mg) of L-theanine works pretty well to obviate my caffeine overstimulation. And it doesn't make me tired like slightly higher dosages can.

Can you say anything about D-ribose? I couldn't find many reports about it. Does it have any application for general alertness and mental energy/cognitive enhancement, or is it more useful for physical exertion?

Well, they say (the forum) that creatine does has mental stimulating affects - mostly for vegans for obvious reasons. D-ribose if I could make into law its replacement as sugar if its price went down - I would. The patent only has a few more years on it and you'll see a surge in d-ribose addition to sweeten drinks. Very good stuff for any athletic.

[Guacamolium]

Okay so whenever was he tlast time that I took MPH and ephedrine (3 days ago?) I'm going to have another try at it again since it was such a sublime combination when it came to GETTING THINGS DONE. (major crash but unavoidable)

Any last suggestions before I try tomorrow morning with it again? (refer to last stack in thread)

I know there're tons of MPH users out there, so help a brother out...

Edited by somethingtoxic, 02 May 2010 - 03:37 AM.

[VoidPointer]

Okay so whenever was he tlast time that I took MPH and ephedrine (3 days ago?) I'm going to have another try at it again since it was such a sublime combination when it came to GETTING THINGS DONE. (major crash but unavoidable)

Any last suggestions before I try tomorrow morning with it again? (refer to last stack in thread)

I know there're tons of MPH users out there, so help a brother out...

Why don't you just take a higher dose of MPH? I think that would be less dangerous than mixing with ephedrine. Isn't ephedrine potentially more toxic than MPH anyway?

I have been occasionally taking DMAE with dexMPH and the DMAE seemed to increase the attention aspect.(was able to stay focused and on-task)

[chrono]

Why don't you just take a higher dose of MPH? I think that would be less dangerous than mixing with ephedrine. Isn't ephedrine potentially more toxic than MPH anyway?

For myself, doubling the dose of MPH just provides a greater magnitude of the same effects, which are a sadly incomplete solution to my attentional/motivation troubles. I get the feeling that somethingtoxic is in something of the same boat, but he hasn't said yet if 20mg is any better. If all I had was MPH, I would definitely be looking for substances to augment the effect, as well.

Though admittedly, ephedrine might not be the best one for constant use.

[Guacamolium]

I have DMAE and it's the only cholinergic that gives me anxiety, (a strange sort of anxiety albeit) but you know what - I'll try it. I'll also just up the MPH dose to 20 mg - since I don't take it daily or anything and want to fully grab the power that MPH had when I was 17. (I think my best friend had 30mg pills maybe and I would take a couple, can't remember) Honestly so far, 100mg modafinil has outdone 10mg MPH + enhancers for staying focused and getting things done. Unless I can upgrade to Focalin, Vyvanse, or Adderall - modafinil will be what I go back to.

Why the hate on ephedrine? That stuff was re-legalized because of the outcry from citizens about how bad ass it is - and its structurally related to Adderall and Vyvanse anyway. In other words - stop hating on ephedrine. It killed people because they took a few HUNDRED mgs of it AND had pre-existing heart conditions. I was there when it happened in the late 90's - I know. I take ephedrine for jogging anyways, and my body tolerates it quite well - always has. When caffeine used to give me terrible panic attacks, ephedrine wouldn't.

What I'm getting at, was that ephedrine plus MPH was a very good stack for me - reminded me of modafinil a bit. So I'll try a medium dose of DMAE, 20mg MPH, and 12.5 mg ephedrine. The whole point I was trying to get to in this thread was how to keep my MPH dose low, but increase its efficacy.

[Heisenberg]

I have DMAE and it's the only cholinergic that gives me anxiety, (a strange sort of anxiety albeit) but you know what - I'll try it. I'll also just up the MPH dose to 20 mg - since I don't take it daily or anything and want to fully grab the power that MPH had when I was 17. (I think my best friend had 30mg pills maybe and I would take a couple, can't remember) Honestly so far, 100mg modafinil has outdone 10mg MPH + enhancers for staying focused and getting things done. Unless I can upgrade to Focalin, Vyvanse, or Adderall - modafinil will be what I go back to.

Why the hate on ephedrine? That stuff was re-legalized because of the outcry from citizens about how bad ass it is - and its structurally related to Adderall and Vyvanse anyway. In other words - stop hating on ephedrine. It killed people because they took a few HUNDRED mgs of it AND had pre-existing heart conditions. I was there when it happened in the late 90's - I know. I take ephedrine for jogging anyways, and my body tolerates it quite well - always has. When caffeine used to give me terrible panic attacks, ephedrine wouldn't.

What I'm getting at, was that ephedrine plus MPH was a very good stack for me - reminded me of modafinil a bit. So I'll try a medium dose of DMAE, 20mg MPH, and 12.5 mg ephedrine. The whole point I was trying to get to in this thread was how to keep my MPH dose low, but increase its efficacy.

I believe also you should be upping your MPH dose, maybe to 30mg, but ot no more than 60mg. Everybody needs a different dose to be effective. I know people who take 100mg (ritalin, NOT focalin) .

[Guacamolium]

I have DMAE and it's the only cholinergic that gives me anxiety, (a strange sort
What I'm getting at, was that eph in this thread was how to keep my MPH dose low, but increase its efficacy.

I believe also you should be upping your MPH dose, maybe to 30mg, but ot no more than 60mg. Everybody needs a different dose to be effective. I know people who take 100mg (ritalin, NOT focalin) .

I'll try 30mg then. I just ate a HUGE breakfast with lots of vasodilators and antioxidants and protein, and I'll take a nap (since it's so early here) and wake and go for 30mg plus NALT and ALCAR and DMAE.

[chrono]

So I'll try a medium dose of DMAE, 20mg MPH, and 12.5 mg ephedrine. The whole point I was trying to get to in this thread was how to keep my MPH dose low, but increase its efficacy.

Well, I was only suggesting that you try 20-30mg by itself, to better gauge how it would affect you, and evaluate if you should be trying for a different medication in the long run. I think the point of this thread is an excellent idea. I asked a similar question recently on another board concerning adderall.

[Guacamolium]

Well general disappointment in that stack, as follows:

30 MPH (as suggested)
8-10 Mg Ephedrine (to keep the EPH bashers at bay somewhat) (me as described as tolerant and effective towards 12.5 mg might have been perceived as too high, as maybe .001 mg.)


820mg of NALT\
DMAE was added and anxiety took place (regarding a number of substances at that point)
2g of ALCAR (somebody tell us WHY ALCAR is used for this simplistic purpose of CG'ing WITH MPH) [fine with me, but some explanation would be great]


Better stack:

10mg MPH
25mg ephedrine

With NALT.

(but, I did get things done as annoying as I was to people - I just was anxious to get things answered, plus the anxiety which I dealt with.