126 replies to this topic

[VoidPointer]

Well general disappointment in that stack, as follows:

30 MPH (as suggested)
8-10 Mg Ephedrine (to keep the EPH bashers at bay somewhat) (me as described as tolerant and effective towards 12.5 mg might have been perceived as too high, as maybe .001 mg.)


820mg of NALT\
DMAE was added and anxiety took place (regarding a number of substances at that point)
2g of ALCAR (somebody tell us WHY ALCAR is used for this simplistic purpose of CG'ing WITH MPH) [fine with me, but some explanation would be great]


Better stack:

10mg MPH
25mg ephedrine

With NALT.

(but, I did get things done as annoying as I was to people - I just was anxious to get things answered, plus the anxiety which I dealt with.

I am not bashing ephedrine, but in general mixing stimulants is 'hit-or-miss' .. Ephedra is great for physical tasks, provided the dose is low and you are healthy.

Today I used 36mg Concerta with DMAE, and got a good 12 hours of utility. It felt more effective due to the DMAE I think.


I did not take a large dose of DMAE though, and also took Zinc and Magnesium. Drank green tea as well.

[Guacamolium]

Well I think my Alpha-GPC, is your DMAE, which I just noticed that I'm out of.....

BTW 20mg of MPH probably would've been fine. Best dose so far was 10 MPH plus 25 EPH. Body chemistries vary.

[Guacamolium]

Tomorrow it'll be 3 days since the last project so I'll try 20mg MPH with 12.5mg Ephedrine plus ALCAR and NALT and DMAA.

BTW, somebody suggested ALCAR. May I ask why, exactly? I love ALCAR and have been taking it since 2006, but I'm not understanding its synergy with MPH here.

[chrono]

BTW, somebody suggested ALCAR. May I ask why, exactly? I love ALCAR and have been taking it since 2006, but I'm not understanding its synergy with MPH here.

I think that was me. I haven't tried this combo personally, but I read a recommendation on ADD forums (there was like one thread on ritalin combos, and this was the only decent recommendation, as I remember).

I use ALCAR for my own ADD, though it's a highly imperfect solution by itself. I just ran out a few days ago, and am suddenly noticing a substantial drop in my ability to stay on a single task, and to read without my mind wandering midway through sentences.

So I don't have a strong reason to believe there is a specific synergy, but I thought it would be a good bet to enhance focus for lower dosages of MPH.

[Guacamolium]

BTW, somebody suggested ALCAR. May I ask why, exactly? I love ALCAR and have been taking it since 2006, but I'm not understanding its synergy with MPH here.

I think that was me. I haven't tried this combo personally, but I read a recommendation on ADD forums (there was like one thread on ritalin combos, and this was the only decent recommendation, as I remember).

I use ALCAR for my own ADD, though it's a highly imperfect solution by itself. I just ran out a few days ago, and am suddenly noticing a substantial drop in my ability to stay on a single task, and to read without my mind wandering midway through sentences.

So I don't have a strong reason to believe there is a specific synergy, but I thought it would be a good bet to enhance focus for lower dosages of MPH.

Oh, cool, thanks for the clarification Chrono. It seems to be a component of any CE'ing stack now that I think about it. It kind of has that all-purpose (or sidekick) attribute to it.

Back in 2006 when I first took it, I took it straight by itself; 2 grams I believe, and it made my thoughts clearer and just slightly easier flowing. Not a dramatic effect, but definitely noticeable. Haven't solo'd it since.

[chrono]

Yes, I agree, ALCAR's very subtle. Just hovering on the edge of what I can "feel" subjectively. Almost like piracetam, it takes some trial to notice what it does in different situations.

I think I saw a mention in that thread that it gave someone anxiety/jitters, but my impression is that you don't have that kind of problem frequently

Glad you're keeping this thread going with your experiences, I think it's quite a valuable idea, and there's very little info on potentiators/combos.

Are you still taking ZMA or some other zinc?

Edited by chrono, 06 May 2010 - 06:06 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Yes, I agree, ALCAR's very subtle. Just hovering on the edge of what I can "feel" subjectively. Almost like piracetam, it takes some trial to notice what it does in different situations.

I think I saw a mention in that thread that it gave someone anxiety/jitters, but my impression is that you don't have that kind of problem frequently

Glad you're keeping this thread going with your experiences, I think it's quite a valuable idea, and there's very little info on potentiators/combos.

Are you still taking ZMA or some other zinc?

I didn't end up taking the stack today, as I discovered something with GABA that no one really picked up on yet, so I guinea-pigged that experiment instead. I guess I'll try "potentiation stack" number 6 tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me to take ZMA with it, still haven't pinned down how or why it tears an anion off the DAT in literature, but it'll show up one of these days I'm sure. Too bad magnesium wouldn't tear an anion off the NAT too - then I'd be rocking off 10mgs of MPH!!

About my anxiety - I had an extreme case of social anxiety with depression and panic disorder, but that was my teenage years and early 20's and about as much anxiety I get now is from either an overdosed stim stack like the one with DMAE earlier, or if I'm just not in a good mood and a stranger or group comes up to me. Other than that, no anxiety. Plus, I have oxytocin, benzos and beta blockers for public speeches, investor meetings or court testifying - never know when one of those suckers will spring up!

I just started this thread as I figure taking lots of MPH probably is worse and more addictive for a person, than taking as little and potentiating the ever living fuck out it, and the fact that although I exhibit ADD symptoms like not finishing things that I started because something just suddenly caught my attention instead, but miserably failed that ADD test that doctors give makes me look like an ADD med seeker, rather than somebody seeking a med for the symptoms he's having.

Any additional advice is surely welcomed, as I have like, almost every cerebral enhancing supplement imaginable - save for selank and things like that.

[chilp]

I've been experimenting with Rit (5-20mg/day) for a full week.

My conclusions:

1) Definitely avoid caffeine with Rit: leads to anxiety and hypertension
2) 500mg-1g L-Tyrosine enhances the Rit effect
3) L-Theanine goes very well with Rit, busy mind and relaxed body.
4) It's very addictive. You won't have withdrawal seizures or anything but you keep thinking about it.
5) It's different than modafinil. Rit makes me more anti-social but more productive. Mod gives you extra confidence and makes you more alert. Rit doesn't, the effect is different, makes your mind reason faster.

[Guacamolium]

I've been experimenting with Rit (5-20mg/day) for a full week.

My conclusions:

1) Definitely avoid caffeine with Rit: leads to anxiety and hypertension
2) 500mg-1g L-Tyrosine enhances the Rit effect
3) L-Theanine goes very well with Rit, busy mind and relaxed body.
4) It's very addictive. You won't have withdrawal seizures or anything but you keep thinking about it.
5) It's different than modafinil. Rit makes me more anti-social but more productive. Mod gives you extra confidence and makes you more alert. Rit doesn't, the effect is different, makes your mind reason faster.

Thanks for the theanine suggestion, that would serve well with the amounts of other things that put me in hyper-beta wavelengths. Don't worry about its addictiveness with me, I take it maybe 3 times out of the week at the very most, and because I've started a new project that antagonizes this one, I'll probably drop off this idea for a while - but the theanine suggestion was sublime as all fuck, thanks! Alpha waverey on MPH.....

[chilp]

I've been experimenting with Rit (5-20mg/day) for a full week.

My conclusions:

1) Definitely avoid caffeine with Rit: leads to anxiety and hypertension
2) 500mg-1g L-Tyrosine enhances the Rit effect
3) L-Theanine goes very well with Rit, busy mind and relaxed body.
4) It's very addictive. You won't have withdrawal seizures or anything but you keep thinking about it.
5) It's different than modafinil. Rit makes me more anti-social but more productive. Mod gives you extra confidence and makes you more alert. Rit doesn't, the effect is different, makes your mind reason faster.

Thanks for the theanine suggestion, that would serve well with the amounts of other things that put me in hyper-beta wavelengths. Don't worry about its addictiveness with me, I take it maybe 3 times out of the week at the very most, and because I've started a new project that antagonizes this one, I'll probably drop off this idea for a while - but the theanine suggestion was sublime as all fuck, thanks! Alpha waverey on MPH.....

Let me know what you thought about that combo. Also, I wouldn't recommend more than 400mg Theanine. Something between 200-400mg should be fine.

[Ark]

Finally I got a prescription for methylphenidate. The first day I took 10mg in the morning on an empty stomach. I felt extremely good in terms of concentration and motivation. The effect started wearing out about 6 hours after dosing however it was still good enough. Even 10 hours after I still felt I had much more energy. The next day I took 5mg and still got strong responded. Then I took 2.5mg in the morning and another 2.5mg 5 hours later and still get good results though much more subtle compared with 10mg dose. I would like to stick on this low dose even though I'm not getting "full effect" on concentration and motivation as I don't want the down regulation of my dopamine receptor. Also, I take at least one drug holiday every week. I really hope that I would never build tolerance, I LOVE LOVE LOVE methylphenidate.

I find Ritalin (I use R, standard release) one of the most effective enhancers when it comes down to focus and diligence. I take a low dose of 5mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon. For me, it works well with L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, and Piracetam. I find its effect enhanced when combined with a low dose of caffeine (10mg). For some reason, I do not respond well to Pyritinol at all, same for Sulbutiamine. I am not sure it is the Ritalin, it may be idiosyncratic.

So far, I have not found a nootropic that would be able to replace Ritalin for me.

Heisenbery,
What do you mean by "Ritalin R", do you mean dexmethylphenidate?

Ritalin R is the "original" methylphenidate, unstustained release (R = regular). It is NOT dexmethylphenidate, which is much more expensive.

Make sure everyone is cycling Ritalin and also people under 15 I would highly advise against the use of RX stimulants.

[Sebastian]

Where can one buy Ritalin?

[elecdonia]

There were some reports of problems using Rhodiola along with methylphenidate (possible mania?)

Could anyone who has tried these 2 things together provide some details?


I am also interested in hearing what supplements and nootropics have worked well with methylphenidate for others

I am currently taking Concerta 36 mg, along with sertraline 100 mg. My diagnosis was major depression combined with ADD (inattentive). Went to my primary care doctor first, who put me on the Sertraline, which helped with some of the depression symptoms (really took care of the anxiety), but actually reduced my energy level and motivation. Then saw a real psychiatrist who immediately suggested adding the methylphenidate. Adding the Concerta has started to really improve my functionality. Motivation and energy level increased, anhedonia decreased.

I have some Rhodiola but haven't tried it yet.

I found that Methylfolate (Metafolin) 800 mcg, which I got from Solgar, works very nicely along with the other meds. I suspect that I don't metabolize folic acid properly, but haven't ever been tested for this.

[rvdvaart]

Does anyone know if Ritalin helps/hurts performance during an actual exam or is it just for studying? I'm taking a professional exam next week and I was considering taking Ritalin. But I'm worried I might actually do worse. Any opinions?

[chilp]

Does anyone know if Ritalin helps/hurts performance during an actual exam or is it just for studying? I'm taking a professional exam next week and I was considering taking Ritalin. But I'm worried I might actually do worse. Any opinions?

I would only advise Rit for productivity / deadlines issues.

[Guacamolium]

Does anyone know if Ritalin helps/hurts performance during an actual exam or is it just for studying? I'm taking a professional exam next week and I was considering taking Ritalin. But I'm worried I might actually do worse. Any opinions?

I would only advise Rit for productivity / deadlines issues.

chilp and I agree on this.

[elecdonia]

Does anyone know if Ritalin helps/hurts performance during an actual exam or is it just for studying? I'm taking a professional exam next week and I was considering taking Ritalin. But I'm worried I might actually do worse. Any opinions?

A big event is NOT the best time to experiment with Ritalin (or any other nootropics) for the first time

As a long-term Ritalin user, I wouldn't advise this unless you have already taken Ritalin many times and are very familiar with how it affects you.

Ritalin will make you "feel better" but this does not necessarily mean it will improve your mental functioning or performance.

I take Concerta every day. But I was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) by a pyschiatrist many years ago. Have you received a diagnosis of attention deficit?

[rvdvaart]

Does anyone know if Ritalin helps/hurts performance during an actual exam or is it just for studying? I'm taking a professional exam next week and I was considering taking Ritalin. But I'm worried I might actually do worse. Any opinions?

A big event is NOT the best time to experiment with Ritalin (or any other nootropics) for the first time

As a long-term Ritalin user, I wouldn't advise this unless you have already taken Ritalin many times and are very familiar with how it affects you.

Ritalin will make you "feel better" but this does not necessarily mean it will improve your mental functioning or performance.

I take Concerta every day. But I was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) by a pyschiatrist many years ago. Have you received a diagnosis of attention deficit?

I do have mild symptoms of ADD...its more mental fatigue when i study than anything else. If I exercise early the morning then I'm usually able to study effectively the rest of the day.

I haven't been taking Ritalin for regular studying but only in the last week for reviewing. However, I've noticed during the actual exam simulations, Ritalin actually makes me do worse....sort of like unnecessary test anxiety. It also gives me awful insomnia. I think I'll avoid taking it for the actual exam and just exercise that morning.

I've been taking Ashwaganda, Bacopa, a high quality Fish Oil, Rhodiola Rosea, and Ginko biloba for the past few months. I added ALCAR to my stack a couple weeks ago. My memory and mood has definitely improved on these. The Ritalin did help for review over the past week but I don't think the anxiety and insomnia I get from it is worth it

Edited by rvdvaart, 22 May 2010 - 08:59 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems. Since it's, what, the most commonly used drug in the world? I would assume prescribers would say something about this. I've heard many people say it causes them anxiety though, which I readily believe, as caffeine by itself gives me anxiety even at 10-20mg. I agree that ephedrine is probably worse, since I've heard that concern about it by itself in higher dosages.

Btw, if you're getting any jitters or overstimulation from these combinations, I've been finding that a low dose (50mg) of L-theanine works pretty well to obviate my caffeine overstimulation. And it doesn't make me tired like slightly higher dosages can.

Can you say anything about D-ribose? I couldn't find many reports about it. Does it have any application for general alertness and mental energy/cognitive enhancement, or is it more useful for physical exertion?

So sorry to neglect this post, Chrono - things have been busy lately and then, but you bring up excellent points. Let me converse -

D-ribose is separate from this kind of stack (I run outside or treadmill, I finish tasks inside though, sort of thing) and I don't subjectively report on mental "anythings" bad or good. I do admit that I'm quite a meat eater. (shame on me, right) but that changes what could happen in my body, say, I if were a vegan.

I agree with like, what, 5 people now that LD caffeine is wanted with any sort of MPH (or cousin) dose.

[elecdonia]

I do have mild symptoms of ADD...its more mental fatigue when i study than anything else. If I exercise early the morning then I'm usually able to study effectively the rest of the day.

Exercise is important. I try to excercise, either cardio or brisk walking, every morning. This helps almost as much as the medication.

I haven't been taking Ritalin for regular studying but only in the last week for reviewing. However, I've noticed during the actual exam simulations, Ritalin actually makes me do worse....sort of like unnecessary test anxiety. It also gives me awful insomnia. I think I'll avoid taking it for the actual exam and just exercise that morning.

Definitely skip the Ritalin for your exam. Ritalin can cause anxiety. Anecdotal evidence is that anxiety caused by Ritalin is more likely among those who don't actually have ADHD. For those of us with bona-fide ADHD, Ritalin often reduces anxiety and gives us a "more calm" feeling when under stress. It certainly works this way for me.

Because Ritalin is a stimulant, it must be taken early in the day, or it WILL cause insomnia. If using fast-acting Ritalin, it is typical to take 2 doses, one at breakfast, the other at lunch. I myself take Concerta, which is time-released. One Concerta taken at breakfast lasts all day. By evening, it wears off (slowly). I sleep equally well with or without Concerta.

I've been taking Ashwaganda, Bacopa, a high quality Fish Oil, Rhodiola Rosea, and Ginko biloba for the past few months. I added ALCAR to my stack a couple weeks ago. My memory and mood has definitely improved on these. The Ritalin did help for review over the past week but I don't think the anxiety and insomnia I get from it is worth it

+1 on the fish oil and ALCAR. Nearly everyone should supplement these, even if they don't have ADHD. I find that it is best to take these before breakfast
+1 on the ashwaghanda too. I think ashwaghanda is great. I take it in the evening about 1/2 hour before bed. Ashwaghanda is relaxing. Some people say it is even sedating.

I have some Rhodiola but haven't tried it yet. Others on imminst have contraindicated Rhodiola with Ritalin, saying it causes excessive stimulation and anxiety, maybe even hypomania. These folks recommend taking Rhodiola only on days where you don't take Ritalin. Rhodiola is stimulating, so take it early in the day if you use it
Gingko I'm not so sure about. I've tried it on and off, but never noticed any substantial effects.

If you are able to, I recommend seeing a psychriatist for an actual diagnosis of your ADHD. It's also a good idea to get blood tests, especiallly for thyroid. Hypothyroid or other endocrine and hormone problems can cause mental fatigue, brain fog, low energy, and many other symptoms which are similar to ADHD. After a diagnosis of ADHD has been confirmed, many psychiatrists (in the USA at least) will treat the ADHD with a combination of stimulants (often Ritalin or Adderall), and an SSRI (I take sertraline [Zoloft]). I'm not entirely sure about the scientific reasons for using the SSRI, but sertraline is known to be anti-anxiety among other things. Diagnosis and treatment of ADHD seems to vary a lot from country to country. If you aren't in the USA, there may be substantial differences in the way ADHD is both diagnosed and treated.

[elecdonia]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems.

I agree with like, what, 5 people now that LD caffeine is wanted with any sort of MPH (or cousin) dose.

I couldn't survive without my breakfast mug of good coffee! But I usually only have ONE big serving of coffee, and I avoid coffee or other caffeine late in the day.

Many years ago a pyschiatrist told me that undiagnosed ADHD folks often consume a huge amount of caffeine, and/or smoke like chimneys. Of course, caffeine and nicotene are both stimulants. I knew someone who drank +25 cups of coffee per day. Ever watch NCIS? There is some serious caffeine consumption by certain main characters in that TV series.

What I learned from my psychiatrist is that proper ADHD medication (Ritalin, etc.) will raise one's blood pressure much LESS than drinking 25 cups of coffee.

I think a moderate amount of caffeine consumption is completely safe.

[Guacamolium]

Yeah, I would need to do some searching before I believed caffeine added any significant cardiac problems.

I agree with like, what, 5 people now that LD caffeine is wanted with any sort of MPH (or cousin) dose.

I couldn't survive without my breakfast mug of good coffee! But I usually only have ONE big serving of coffee, and I avoid coffee or other caffeine late in the day.

Many years ago a pyschiatrist told me that undiagnosed ADHD folks often consume a huge amount of caffeine, and/or smoke like chimneys. Of course, caffeine and nicotene are both stimulants. I knew someone who drank +25 cups of coffee per day. Ever watch NCIS? There is some serious caffeine consumption by certain main characters in that TV series.

What I learned from my psychiatrist is that proper ADHD medication (Ritalin, etc.) will raise one's blood pressure much LESS than drinking 25 cups of coffee.

I think a moderate amount of caffeine consumption is completely safe.

Well I tend to avoid it unless purposefully placed there, or else I either become that nervous card member at the gym with the visible shakes or that guy who socially avoids you by any means necessary, unless another couple of chemicals are in play.....it depends - otherwise I'd be off guzzling near-gallons of it....if only it didn't...

[chrono]

Last week a friend of mine gave me a chance to try ritalin. I took 20mg with 700mg NALT. The difference with how ritalin normally affects me was pretty drastic. It usually gives me a small boost in focus and energy, but no significant motivation.

This time, it gave me a large boost in motivation, rivaling what adderall does to me. However, in contrast to adderall, I didn't have a machinelike, driving hyperfocus compelling me to get (too) deeply involved in whatever small task I decided to engage in. Instead, I was very relaxed, but had an increased feeling of deriving pleasure from things I wanted to do, even relatively meaningless/playful things. Unfortunately the crash was pretty drastic as well, leaving me feeling useless for many hours afterward.

Still, it was a unique and very useful state of mind.

[Guacamolium]

Yeah, I agree that NALT and MPH pair well together - except for the crash. Happens with ephedrine too, it's a bit difficult to avoid. Haven't taken MPH in weeks, though I have over 40 left and I'm already due for a refill. I think that the problem is that I just can't simply take it, use its 3 or so hours, and then go on with my day as normal.

The rest of my day seems frazzled, like I just got struck by lightning and wandered into civilization again, or something. Honestly I prefer Moda because it lasts longer, keeps me on task just as well as MPH, and I can stack mostly the same things if I want to, and the crash is more exhausting - which is good in my case, though I'm still frazzled as hell.

I'll report back if I come up with a nicer stack than all the ones I tried before, but I just haven't found the chance to take MPH lately, is the problem.

[Heisenberg]

Last week a friend of mine gave me a chance to try ritalin. I took 20mg with 700mg NALT. The difference with how ritalin normally affects me was pretty drastic. It usually gives me a small boost in focus and energy, but no significant motivation.

This time, it gave me a large boost in motivation, rivaling what adderall does to me. However, in contrast to adderall, I didn't have a machinelike, driving hyperfocus compelling me to get (too) deeply involved in whatever small task I decided to engage in. Instead, I was very relaxed, but had an increased feeling of deriving pleasure from things I wanted to do, even relatively meaningless/playful things. Unfortunately the crash was pretty drastic as well, leaving me feeling useless for many hours afterward.

Still, it was a unique and very useful state of mind.

This describes how it was for me at the beginning. I found it took about a week of continuous use at a low dose to make the crash and generally nauseous feeling / dizzyness go away. I believe you are taking too much at 20mg + NALT; you may want to ramp up over a longer period of time. Furthermore, I think Ritalin is not necessarily a one time add-on to the nootropics stack, but more of a long-term treatment of ADHD and unfocusedness. Once my body got used to it, I did not feel the amphetamine "high" any more, but a long lasting increase in productivity and focus - without any crash at all. L-tyrosine has added a little-boost to it, but nothing too drastic at 750mg.

[Major Legend]

My opinion of ritalin is that it has too much of a crash even at 10mg, you might be productive whilst being on it, but once it wears off you're left with this complete shell of a human being, taking more only gives even more concentration, eventually leading to mania and euphoria, however the crash becomes 10x more unbearable at higher doses (e.g. 30mg or so)

What happened to to guy on this thread that took ritalin + deprenyl? did he die? : (

though i've never tried adderall. Nor the extended version of ritalin.

[chilp]

I always experience crashes after 4 hours of each dose. However, Ashwagandha or Theanine work well with me as a crash suppressant, even if my mood isn't that good afterwards.

[mathkid]

I usually use 2.5 mg MPH when I need to do some serious theorem proof and rigorous analysis. It is very useful in the sense that your attention span increased a lot.

[mathkid]

But after 5 hours, the effects wear off. And it is pretty bad.... So far I haven't figured out a way to deal with it, so I use MPH when absolutely necessary....

Any suggestion to avoid the crash?

[chilp]

But after 5 hours, the effects wear off. And it is pretty bad.... So far I haven't figured out a way to deal with it, so I use MPH when absolutely necessary....

Any suggestion to avoid the crash?

Yeah, take 2.5 mg Rit and read my post just above yours.