25 replies to this topic

[haha]

The best Nootropic ever is distilled water that has been carefully remineralised this is because Fluorine at common waterboard supplementation levels causes a 50% reduction in the number of 'Bright'(120+IQ) Children. THis is entirely intentional, systemic control. Furthermore fluorine more often than not cause irresversiable damage to your teeth. I shouldnt be telling you let alone give you sources, but comphrensive science documents this and if you understand the broarder picture, you to can find it. Are you really convinced that some of your nootropics havent been promugulated towards you with intent to do harm. I dont like how google is running all the search engines on forums now......
How come scienitist can only really source information from one publisher.......

[e Volution]

Dude were you wearing a tin foil hat when you wrote that...? Have you heard of Carl Sagan? He coined a great phrase: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence! You have just presented an extraordinary claim, yet have presented zero evidence. Surely as a critical scientist you can see there is something wrong with this picture, no? edit: that or your taking the mickey and I just bought it hook line and sinker (and if thats the case you need to work on your sarcasm prose)

Edited by icantgoforthat, 22 April 2010 - 10:27 AM.

[Thorsten3]

The best nootropic is a good lifestyle. Plenty of rest, enough physical exercise and a good diet. A lifestyle with a meaningful job, meaningful relationships (that is satisfactory to the individual) ant the ability to make a positive difference (therby increasing your level of self worth and allowing yourself to feel satisfaction from your life).

[haha]

Amen to thorsten comments....
Carl sagans quote 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' is very apt,
I feel like I cant provide what evidence I have(its not western), I therefore have no right to expect that my claim is perceived to be scientific.
But I really encourage people to look into this issue....it maybe a route to waking up and turning your world on its head.

[Lallante]

Amen to thorsten comments....
Carl sagans quote 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' is very apt,
I feel like I cant provide what evidence I have(its not western), I therefore have no right to expect that my claim is perceived to be scientific.
But I really encourage people to look into this issue....it maybe a route to waking up and turning your world on its head.

I've met many people who buy into this theory.

I used to volunteer at a mental hospital.

[chrono]

I shouldnt be telling you let alone give you sources, but comphrensive science documents this and if you understand the broarder picture, you to can find it.

Thanks for breaking the code. Now get to a safe house.

How about some of that "comprehensive science" to go with the "I see things you people don't" attitude? People here don't dismiss evidence just because it's from another part of the world.

[medievil]

I shouldnt be telling you let alone give you sources, but comphrensive science documents this and if you understand the broarder picture, you to can find it.

Thanks for breaking the code. Now get to a safe house.

How about some of that "comprehensive science" to go with the "I see things you people don't" attitude? People here don't dismiss evidence just because it's from another part of the world.

+1

[Guacamolium]

Trolls be trollin'

[haha]

Its really easy to call me a trol... but then your being a loser and not dealing with the truth.This behavour is what allows atrocities to continue.
Look I dont mean to be lording it around really its not hard to find, its more about will. Why dont you get this article 'Fluoride and children's intelligence: a meta-analysis.' its not a bad start. Theres far more material even just in google. But if you cant find this material you shouldnt know about it.

[LabRat84]

Its really easy to call me a trol... but then your being a loser and not dealing with the truth.This behavour is what allows atrocities to continue.
Look I dont mean to be lording it around really its not hard to find, its more about will. Why dont you get this article 'Fluoride and children's intelligence: a meta-analysis.' its not a bad start. Theres far more material even just in google. But if you cant find this material you shouldnt know about it.

I suggest you look at that paper too. It's a joke. It's not about fluoridation, it's about a correlation between fluorosis (fluoride excess) and IQ. The study also admits to having a bias.
The conclusion of the paper is that exposure to high fluoride levels (it doesn't specify how high) can lower IQ by about 5 points. Even if that's true, that doesn't mean reducing fluoride as an adult can improve IQ. The effects may be irreversible.

[chrono]

I was curious about this paper as well: Concerns about water fluoridation, IQ, and osteosarcoma lack credible evidence.

Though I do think that halogenating drinking water is ethically problematic, even if it does have some confirmed dental health benefits.

[haha]

Its really easy to call me a trol... but then your being a loser and not dealing with the truth.This behavour is what allows atrocities to continue.
Look I dont mean to be lording it around really its not hard to find, its more about will. Why dont you get this article 'Fluoride and children's intelligence: a meta-analysis.' its not a bad start. Theres far more material even just in google. But if you cant find this material you shouldnt know about it.

I suggest you look at that paper too. It's a joke. It's not about fluoridation, it's about a correlation between fluorosis (fluoride excess) and IQ. The study also admits to having a bias.
The conclusion of the paper is that exposure to high fluoride levels (it doesn't specify how high) can lower IQ by about 5 points. Even if that's true, that doesn't mean reducing fluoride as an adult can improve IQ. The effects may be irreversible.

Instead of reading the abstract you need the article, it was my first google hit anyway

[LabRat84]

Its really easy to call me a trol... but then your being a loser and not dealing with the truth.This behavour is what allows atrocities to continue.
Look I dont mean to be lording it around really its not hard to find, its more about will. Why dont you get this article 'Fluoride and children's intelligence: a meta-analysis.' its not a bad start. Theres far more material even just in google. But if you cant find this material you shouldnt know about it.

I suggest you look at that paper too. It's a joke. It's not about fluoridation, it's about a correlation between fluorosis (fluoride excess) and IQ. The study also admits to having a bias.
The conclusion of the paper is that exposure to high fluoride levels (it doesn't specify how high) can lower IQ by about 5 points. Even if that's true, that doesn't mean reducing fluoride as an adult can improve IQ. The effects may be irreversible.

Instead of reading the abstract you need the article, it was my first google hit anyway

I read the article. Here's an excerpt:

Materials and Methods
Literature Search MEDLINE, SCI, and CNKI search were organized for all studies
published, in English and Chinese, between 1988 and 2008. The following keywords were
used to search for all documents: fluorosis, fluoride, intelligence, or IQ. A further search
was undertaken in the website www.fluorideresearch.org because this is a professional
website concerning research on fluoride. The country was restricted to China. As a result,
18 case–control studies were located with enough data to allow for further quantitative
analysis (Table 1).
A total of 26 studies were excluded. Some excluded studies did not present enough data
to allow inclusion in the meta-analysis. Another reason for exclusion was some of the
papers had been included, which means that they had been published more than one time or
had been published in two journals in Chinese or English language.

[LabRat84]

I was curious about this paper as well: Concerns about water fluoridation, IQ, and osteosarcoma lack credible evidence.

Though I do think that halogenating drinking water is ethically problematic, even if it does have some confirmed dental health benefits.

Unfortunately I don't have access to that one. It might not be a full paper, just a letter to the editor or something.

[haha]

Dental fluorosis is interesting, a wikipedia claim havent checked sources
As of 2005[update] surveys conducted by the National Institute of Dental Research in the USA between 1986 and 1987[6] and by the Center of Disease Control between 1999 and 2002[7] are the only national sources of data concerning the prevalence of dental fluorosis.

NIDR and CDC findings Deans Index1987 2002
Questionable fluorosis ( split ) 11.8%
Very mild fluorosis ( 17%) 19%
Mild fluorosis 4% 5.83%
Moderate fluorosis 1% 0.59%
Severe fluorosis 0.3%
Total 22.3% 37.2%


Once the damage is sustained it is fairly irrevesaible, but damage will continue throughout the life,parkinsons would be a particular concern, because of the metabolic effects of fluorine.That study shows some massive levels of damage and they have corrected for socio-economic effects but the composite studies scientific method are how it should be judged. And america allows upto 4.2mg/l fluorine which is well within covered by this study

Edited by haha, 23 April 2010 - 03:15 AM.

[Guacamolium]

Its really easy to call me a trol... but then your being a loser and not dealing with the truth.This behavour is what allows atrocities to continue.
Look I dont mean to be lording it around really its not hard to find, its more about will. Why dont you get this article 'Fluoride and children's intelligence: a meta-analysis.' its not a bad start. Theres far more material even just in google. But if you cant find this material you shouldnt know about it.

I'll get right on that, troll, thanks for your 1960's concern!

[haha]

You call me crazy, you call me outdated, but I do know that as a society we are heavily controlled by the addition of fluorine to our water, it is one factor that maintains the social order and stops individuals truly analyzing the factul parameters of our society. How can americans even believe they have a free press in the weakest forum, if you cannot express societal sentiments how can you achieve things for the society. I say your a servant, your preprogramming and ego block you from understanding this, you refuse to believe, so you remain a servant, and so do your dumber children.... It is obvious that society require servitude of its people to its self, the question is to what purpose that servitude is directed.Everyone desevers to develop there intellectual abilities to the best of there abilities. It should maximise the wellbeing of the group. Am i the one that is crazy?

[Guacamolium]

You call me crazy, you call me outdated, but I do know that as a society we are heavily controlled by the addition of fluorine to our water, it is one factor that maintains the social order and stops individuals truly analyzing the factul parameters of our society. How can americans even believe they have a free press in the weakest forum, if you cannot express societal sentiments how can you achieve things for the society. I say your a servant, your preprogramming and ego block you from understanding this, you refuse to believe, so you remain a servant, and so do your dumber children.... It is obvious that society require servitude of its people to its self, the question is to what purpose that servitude is directed.Everyone desevers to develop there intellectual abilities to the best of there abilities. It should maximise the wellbeing of the group. Am i the one that is crazy?

I once not said those things. If I were in charge, I'd have chlorine reduced in water and toothpaste heavily sought over in that regard. It's to help the microbilogical level of mass consumption in mass systems while strengthening enamel. Boy am I braishwashed.... but I do agree that flouridation levels needs to go down and de-flouronation needs to come up.

[chrono]

but I do know that as a society we are heavily controlled by the addition of fluorine to our water, it is one factor that maintains the social order and stops individuals truly analyzing the factul parameters of our society. How can americans even believe they have a free press in the weakest forum, if you cannot express societal sentiments how can you achieve things for the society. I say your a servant, your preprogramming and ego block you from understanding this, you refuse to believe, so you remain a servant, and so do your dumber children....

The paper you posted showed a difference in IQ of about 5. This is barely more than the range of error on an IQ test (3-4?). I'm not sure if this can be considered a significant result. I'd really like to see more data, with a wider range of test areas (i.e. not just in China).

But even if there is a definite correlation, a 5 point drop in IQ is hardly going to achieve the ends of "heavy" social control you're proposing. I think your assertions about political intent are a little unfounded and sensationalist: fluoride treatment has documented benefits, and may seem like a good idea to policymakers when evidence of downsides is somewhat debatable.

This has nothing to do with free press, and everything to do with "is it reasonable to believe this idea is true?" Someone isn't a sheep just because they don't believe a conspiracy theory in advance of evidence.

Edited by chrono, 23 April 2010 - 01:52 PM.

[polybi]

wake up sheeple hes a troll

[haha]

The range of error on an IQ test can be greater than 50 for any individual, assuming they dont appear to have a g-factor. But once you sample over a thousand people, signficance(p0.05) will be less than 1point,(anyone back this up with the calculation). So a 5 point reduction is a very significant result on a large meta-anaylsis. Well if we assume a normal population with an IQ of a nominal 100 and a standdeviation of 13, a reduction of 5points accross the board decreases bright children by (0.0273/0.0619) to forty four percent of orginal. Im personally dont believe the IQ is normal distributed but thats the practice of acedemics so...Look at the component studies there not bad. Do you trust CDC material? Well 37% of people have worse teeth because of fluorine so it would have to help the rest a hell of alot not to be just a way to rasie dental bills, even tho it was instuited mainly to marsk the effect of industrail fluorine. Americas first use for the hex-fluoro's was selling it to the soviet union during the second world war,what did they do with it?
Free press was just an example, but its an example that is very pertainent in many indistinctive ways, systems have emergent behavour. You say Im a conspricy theorist, well id like you to explain to me how you define a conspricy theory relative to an established dogma.

Edited by haha, 23 April 2010 - 03:20 PM.

[tritium]

EFFECT OF HIGH-FLUORIDE WATER ON INTELLIGENCE IN CHILDREN

SUMMARY: The Intelligence Quotient (IQ) was measured in 118 children, aged
10-12 years, who were life-long residents in two villages of similar population
size and social, educational and economic background but differing in the
level of fluoride in drinking water. The children in the high-fluoride area
(drinking water fluoride 3.15 ± 0.61 mg/L [ppm]) (mean ± S.D.) had higher urinary
fluoride levels (4.99 ± 2.57 mg/L) than the children in the low-fluoride area
(drinking water fluoride 0.37 ± 0.04 mg/L) (urinary fluoride 1.43 ± 0.64 mg/L).
The IQ of the 60 children in the high-fluoride area was significantly lower,
mean 92.27 ± 20.45, than that of the 58 children in the low-fluoride area, mean
103.05 ± 13.86. More children in the high-fluoride area, 21.6%, were in the retardation
(<70) or borderline (70-79) categories of IQ than children in the low
fluoride area, 3.4%. An inverse relationship was also present between IQ and
the urinary fluoride level. Exposure of children to high levels of fluoride may
therefore carry the risk of impaired development of intelligence.

[Introspecta]

Its funny how you can call this guy a troll when he is just alerting the people of the truth. Look into it yourself. See if you can find any information of flouride being anything but unhealthy for you.

[chrono]

Just deleted a couple of posts here for the following reasons:

1. General conspiracy theory talk. Off-topic for this forum
2. Double-posting within a few minutes. Please edit your original post if you have something else to add, especially if it's insubstantial.
3. Entire article. Posting an entire article is a copyright problem, not to mention an eyesore. Please post an abstract, or a few relevant excerpts.

The topic of this thread is the cognitive effects of fluoride. If you want to talk about conspiracy theories, please do so in the 'Unrelated to Life Extension' forum.

[tritium]

Effects of Fluoride on Lipid Peroxidation, DNA Damage and Apoptosis in Human Embryo Hepatocytes:
http://www.besjourna...BES-17-2-11.pdf

Can someone comment whether this article is a reputable source of information?

[NR2(x)]

Generally looks like well conducted science by professionals,
Just add an acetyl-group for greater damage eh?. Fluoride bioaccumulates in many organs particulary the hormone and immune systems(bone marrow-stem cells), brain damage is atleast in part mediated by blockade of trace amines pathways derived from t3 thyorixine related to amphetamine

interesting how similar the effects are to Thiomersal.

Think of all the lost potential,