64 replies to this topic

[Ginnungagap]

Ashwagandha and passion flower both work for me. I never had any luck with glycine or taurine.

Phenibut also works but at that point you might as well be using prescription benzos.

I've never heard about passion flower before.

Has anyone else had good experiences with it?

Any thoughts about this?

According to wikipedia, passion flower contains harmala alkaloids, which are mao-inhibitors.
http://en.wikipedia....ntheogenic_uses

That said, I can buy passion flower extracts at my local pharmacy (which I didnt try, but maybe will in the future, though the harmala alkaloids do scare me a little bit). I used passion flower tea to make ice tea in the past, tastes really good, but I cant remember if it had any effect on my mood, wakefulness etc. I dont think so.

Edited by Ginnungagap, 24 May 2010 - 10:43 AM.

[GoodFellas]

What would be the best supplements to combine with melatonin?

Anyone who knows?

[kakker]

If you are not already familiar with behavioral techniques such as sleep restriction, you should take a look at the empirical evidence relative to supplements (and medications). The American Academy of Sleep Medicine site probably has some useful information.


Here's a recent abstract in pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20451034

Edited by kakker, 26 May 2010 - 04:08 PM.

[Jackson Vile]

Hmm, I find that fish oil before bed actually keeps me awake.

If you glucose is too high, this can happen and shows that either there is a problem with your diet or your glucose response. So consdier that carefully.

[GoodFellas]

Bumping this one a bit;P

[Ginnungagap]

Ashwagandha and passion flower both work for me. I never had any luck with glycine or taurine.

Phenibut also works but at that point you might as well be using prescription benzos.

I've never heard about passion flower before.

Has anyone else had good experiences with it?

Any thoughts about this?

According to wikipedia, passion flower contains harmala alkaloids, which are mao-inhibitors.
http://en.wikipedia....ntheogenic_uses

That said, I can buy passion flower extracts at my local pharmacy (which I didnt try, but maybe will in the future, though the harmala alkaloids do scare me a little bit). I used passion flower tea to make ice tea in the past, tastes really good, but I cant remember if it had any effect on my mood, wakefulness etc. I dont think so.

Okay, for anyone interested, I recently bought the passionflower extract. One pill has 425mg, and the extract is made with 50% ethanol.
So far, I noticed nothing from taking low doses, and higher doses (3+ pills) get my pulse higher temporarily, but had no other effects.

[KimberCT]

Two things that aren't traditionally considered sleep aids that really knock me out...

5-MTHF
Mangosteen

[aLurker]

Bacopa made me sleep my life away. The effects took a while to build up though. It might improve your memory too after some weeks of usage, although I wouldn't know since I was too busy sleeping.

[GoodFellas]

Two things that aren't traditionally considered sleep aids that really knock me out...

5-MTHF
Mangosteen

Are those safe though?

[MoodyBlue]

Life Extension's Tryptopure is a formula which helps more of the trytophan to get into the brain where it is needed to make serotonin. Hyposomnolent people diagnosed with major depression are found to have very low levels of serotonin. It is needed for sleep. Also natural GABA (not synthetic) might help. See here: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Y455O9NLPuA

What's the side effects from Tryptopure?

I didn't experience any side effects from it. I did sleep more deeply than usual, though I don't have a sleeping disorder anyway. You can take Tryptopure during the day. By the way, I should have said "Optimized Tryptopure" instead because Tryptopure doesn't have the nutrients which spare tryptohan from degradation before it gets to the brain as the optimized type does. Here's a link to the right product: http://www.lef.org/V...oPure-Plus.html, and here's a good relavant magazine article: http://search.lef.or...20tryptophan%20.

[KimberCT]

Two things that aren't traditionally considered sleep aids that really knock me out...

5-MTHF
Mangosteen

Are those safe though?

Well, 5-MTHF is simply the active form of folic acid and mangosteen is a edible fruit with a long history of use.

[adamh]

I've found that several herbs help with sleeping. I use tea from lemon balm, skullcap and mulungu. They are all relaxing and I usually use some hops along with them. I rotate among the various things so that I don't build up tolerance. Valarian root with hops is good too. Another one I use is black cohosh root.

[chrono]

I also just started trying lemon balm in tea this week. It definitely helps quiet the mind, and promotes relaxation. Doses of 1g or so made me want to go to bed early. Quality of sleep seems enhanced to some degree. I'm also sort of tired in the morning—though it's more yawning tired than numb/brain fog tired, like I had with bacopa.

I also want to mention lithium in this context. Huge effect on sleep. At 120/5mg lithium orotate taken in the morning, I was falling asleep in my chair for most of the first week. It was nearly impossible to stay up for more than 12 hours. This effect leveled off considerably after 2-3 weeks.

I'm now taking it an hour or two before bed, with 1g magnesium taurate. It helps very much in feeling tired at a normal time of day (which has always been a huge problem for me). This also seems to obviate most of the brain fog/zombie issues. Again, for a week or more of doing this, I had a tendency to snooze my alarm for a couple of hours—though it wasn't as bad as bacopa, and I felt fine wihin 30 minutes if I just made myself get up.

It also helps me sleep through the night better, and wake up feeling more refreshed. I have moderately severe chronic shoulder pain, which usually wakes me up at many times during the night to toss and turn. This seems to be happening less, and I can get up long enough to go to the bathroom without needing half an hour to fall asleep again. Getting to sleep with increased levels of pain is also more likely to happen, and has surprised me several times when I would normally have had to wake up, take another dose of tramadol, and wait 2 hours before trying again.

Another big factor for me is that it doesn't seem to interfere with dreams. I usually remember many in a night, and enjoy tremendously a sense of intensity and immersion. Many sedative medications interfere with all of these components, but lithium really doesn't seem to, so far, except perhaps in remembering fewer dreams due to waking up less often.

[GoodFellas]

Lately some nights I've been waking up after only 1 1/2 hour of sleep.

What can I take in order to have more prolonged sleep?

[Logan]

I also just started trying lemon balm in tea this week. It definitely helps quiet the mind, and promotes relaxation. Doses of 1g or so made me want to go to bed early. Quality of sleep seems enhanced to some degree. I'm also sort of tired in the morning—though it's more yawning tired than numb/brain fog tired, like I had with bacopa.

I think a "yawning" slightly groggy kind of tired upon waking and shortly after is a sign of quality restful sleep.

[Logan]

Lately some nights I've been waking up after only 1 1/2 hour of sleep.

What can I take in order to have more prolonged sleep?

A 6 or 8 hour time release melatonin.

Also some the things mentioned in this thread by Chrono like lemon balm and lithium.

Other things that may or may not have been listed in this thread:

GABA
Niacin-1 to 2 hours before you go to bed
Glycine-1 to 2 grams can improve sleep quality
Skullcap
Ashwagandha
Magnesium-Taurinate or Glycinate-some calcium with it may help

If you take all of these I would be surprised if you didn't at least sleep 6 hours straight through.

[GoodFellas]

Lately some nights I've been waking up after only 1 1/2 hour of sleep.

What can I take in order to have more prolonged sleep?

A 6 or 8 hour time release melatonin.

Also some the things mentioned in this thread by Chrono like lemon balm and lithium.

Other things that may or may not have been listed in this thread:

GABA
Niacin-1 to 2 hours before you go to bed
Glycine-1 to 2 grams can improve sleep quality
Skullcap
Ashwagandha
Magnesium-Taurinate or Glycinate-some calcium with it may help

If you take all of these I would be surprised if you didn't at least sleep 6 hours straight through.

Thanks

Isn't lithium dangerous?
Anyway I'll try out lemon balm and skullcap.

Some nights like yesterday I am using Passon Flower Extract, which improves my sleep quality a lot (today I slept for 10 hours:))

[Logan]

Thanks

Isn't lithium dangerous?
Anyway I'll try out lemon balm and skullcap.

Some nights like yesterday I am using Passon Flower Extract, which improves my sleep quality a lot (today I slept for 10 hours:))

A low dose of lithium is not dangerous at all. Actually if anything it's good for you brain. Most people here on Imminst that take lithium are taking it in the form of lithium orotate.

Good to hear passion flower works for you. I still have not tried passion flower, lemon balm, or skullcap-at least on on their own. I plan on trying lemon balm soon. Tried everything else with some success.

[GoodFellas]

Thanks

Isn't lithium dangerous?
Anyway I'll try out lemon balm and skullcap.

Some nights like yesterday I am using Passon Flower Extract, which improves my sleep quality a lot (today I slept for 10 hours:))

A low dose of lithium is not dangerous at all. Actually if anything it's good for you brain. Most people here on Imminst that take lithium are taking it in the form of lithium orotate.

Good to hear passion flower works for you. I still have not tried passion flower, lemon balm, or skullcap-at least on on their own. I plan on trying lemon balm soon. Tried everything else with some success.

Are you using the one from Doctors best?

Anyway, after having a break from my insomnia for a couple months I've just began experiencing it again. I ususally fall asleep at 11PM, but instead of waking up at 7AM I wake up at around 4AM. I tried to go to sleep again by using 2mg of melatonin, and some taurine, but it didn't help much.

What could be the reason for waking up too early? It could be that I'm taking Biotin and Ginko Biloba in the morning, I'll try to avoid taking those for a couple of days and see how it goes. However, if quitting those doesn't work I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm doing all the rights things (eating healthy, avoiding caffeine atfer 5PM, exercising for at least 30 minutes a day etc), but I still have insomnia.

[adamh]

It's a tough problem. The only thing that works consistently for me is an otc sleeping pill and I don't want to use it more than 2x a week. Lemon balm quit working, scullcap doesnt do that much. Valarian root plus scullcap worked great at first, now not so great. MJ worked great but now not so much and it's expensive. Phenibut works great but no more than 1x per week. I'm ordering lyrica which is expensive but I will see how it does.

If passionflower would work great even 1x per week that would be super. Even if it quit working after a few weeks, a few good nights sleep is worth going after. I take ldn and insomnia is one of the side effects. Does anyone know any good combos? I use magnesium and it helps a little but still the problem.

Is being cool at night helpful or warm? A warm bath or a cool shower? Avoiding bright light in the evening is good but seek some out in the morning to wake up.

[Logan]

Thanks

Isn't lithium dangerous?
Anyway I'll try out lemon balm and skullcap.

Some nights like yesterday I am using Passon Flower Extract, which improves my sleep quality a lot (today I slept for 10 hours:))

A low dose of lithium is not dangerous at all. Actually if anything it's good for you brain. Most people here on Imminst that take lithium are taking it in the form of lithium orotate.

Good to hear passion flower works for you. I still have not tried passion flower, lemon balm, or skullcap-at least on on their own. I plan on trying lemon balm soon. Tried everything else with some success.

Are you using the one from Doctors best?

Anyway, after having a break from my insomnia for a couple months I've just began experiencing it again. I ususally fall asleep at 11PM, but instead of waking up at 7AM I wake up at around 4AM. I tried to go to sleep again by using 2mg of melatonin, and some taurine, but it didn't help much.

What could be the reason for waking up too early? It could be that I'm taking Biotin and Ginko Biloba in the morning, I'll try to avoid taking those for a couple of days and see how it goes. However, if quitting those doesn't work I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm doing all the rights things (eating healthy, avoiding caffeine atfer 5PM, exercising for at least 30 minutes a day etc), but I still have insomnia.

Doctor's Best lithium orotate? I'm not taking lithium orotate, I take lithium carbonate, 600 mg. I've heard Vitamin Research Products has a good lithium orotate.

[GoodFellas]

Thanks

Isn't lithium dangerous?
Anyway I'll try out lemon balm and skullcap.

Some nights like yesterday I am using Passon Flower Extract, which improves my sleep quality a lot (today I slept for 10 hours:))

A low dose of lithium is not dangerous at all. Actually if anything it's good for you brain. Most people here on Imminst that take lithium are taking it in the form of lithium orotate.

Good to hear passion flower works for you. I still have not tried passion flower, lemon balm, or skullcap-at least on on their own. I plan on trying lemon balm soon. Tried everything else with some success.

Yeah, Passion Flower is one of better ones out there.

Anyway, I now sleep better again, I think it was because I stopped taking Biotin.

Supplements that can disturbe your sleep pattern (after what I've learned):
-Biotin (drop it all together)
-Omega 3 and propecia (only take it in the morning).
-Biosil ( I got heavy insomnia from this one)

[GoodFellas]

Anymore thoughts about this?

[GoodFellas]

Hi.
Which of the following herbs would help against insomnia?


Jamaican dogwood.

California poppy

Chamoile

Wild Lettuce

Skull cap

Hops



Celery

Lavender

Kava

[adamh]

Kava I've used and seems to help. Celery???, jamaican dogwood I never heard of for this, I'll look into it. Lavender I've heard about but not used, passionflower is one I was going to try. Wild lettuce makes you buzzed but did not help a bit for sleep, imo. Skull cap works, hops works. Lemon balm worked but quit working for me after a while. Melatonin works for many people for occasional use but stops working after a while. Damiana helps somewhat. Mulungu is relaxing.

Otc sleep aids containing antihistamine type drugs work but don't use them every night. Phenibut works but the same cautions. I ordered some lyrica, it's supposed to work. Some people get benefits from mg, and some from inositol or taurine. They did little for me but the mg is relaxing. I realize these are not herbs. Just thought I'd toss them in the pot.

[GoodFellas]

Any new info out about insomnia/treatment of insomnia?

[Insomniac]

I use xylaria nigripes, it is a mushroom, better known as wuling it is suppose to naturally augment melatonin in the brain. The actuve ingridient is adenosine, which calms down the brain and it also provides some amino acids, minerals, vitamins etc.. For me it is WAY better than melatonin, but still not powerful enough. I suffer from insomnia induced by weaning off of SSRI.

[protoject]

I found that Galantamine helped my sleep in the long run. I still have major problems but I'd say since I took galantamine, my sleep problem was cut in half. I don't take galantamine now but took it for a couple of weeks in the MORNING. I didn't enjoy its mental effects but it allowed me to sleep for much longer or to go back to sleep much more easily. Even though I haven't taken it for probably over a month now, my sleep has still been better more often. It seemed to have helped in the long term, but who knows, maybe give 4 mg in the morning for a week or two a try, and tell me if that helps. I wouldn't recommend taking it at night time though, personally it didn't work the same.

[theseed]

I've been collecting info on this too
Based on my own research (and collecting info on health), i'm guessing there's a strong link with adrenal health/stress/hormones.
On the other hand, i myself have also slept like a babe [as i've done most of my life] when i was utterly adrenally fatigued.
Hormones, however, do just about everything: waking up, falling asleep, everything. It's a good place to start and the link on my forum to David Wolfe's works [he says he's aiming to become 3000 years old] is the cutting edge research in this area (that i know of).

[aleelc]

I think I can consider myself as lucky because I can always sleep. When I was younger I had some problems, in this case I used homeopathy like bach flowers which I got by serenata flowers online. This calms me and then I can sleep better.. the problem is often that I feel depressed and then I start thinking about my life... and then I can't sleep anymore :(