208 replies to this topic

[viscosity]

DXM withdrawal can cause massive rebound extracellular glutamte spikes leading to kindling and seizures. Every NMDA antagonist carries this risk.

I haven't heard of this either.

I know ethanol can cause withdrawal seizures, but I'd assume that would mainly be an effect of GABA receptor downregulation as benzodiazepines can certainly cause withdrawal seizures.

[Animal]

DXM withdrawal can cause massive rebound extracellular glutamte spikes leading to kindling and seizures. Every NMDA antagonist carries this risk.

I haven't heard of this either.

I know ethanol can cause withdrawal seizures, but I'd assume that would mainly be an effect of GABA receptor downregulation as benzodiazepines can certainly cause withdrawal seizures.

It's not just the GABA downregulation, it's the upregulation of excitatory mechanisms too. The latter being similar to the effect of DXM withdrawal.

[unregistered_user]

To the OP, have you looked into obtaining a prescription for olanzapine to be used on a temporary basis until the results of your DXM induced psychosis dissipate?

[Spectre]

To the OP, have you looked into obtaining a prescription for olanzapine to be used on a temporary basis until the results of your DXM induced psychosis dissipate?

No, I've actually never tried to get a prescription of anything for this, I'm afraid of antipsychotics honestly. What exactly is olanzapine? I've never heard of this drug before.

[unregistered_user]

A Google search pulled this case study up which sounds promising: http://psy.psychiatr...t/full/42/6/525

Truthfully, I'm not knowledgeable enough to educate you on the drug and know it would be irresponsible to do anything other than bring it to your attention. I would recommend doing some research or your own and talking to a doctor. I've just heard it mentioned in treatment for cases similar to yours.

[Animal]

To the OP, have you looked into obtaining a prescription for olanzapine to be used on a temporary basis until the results of your DXM induced psychosis dissipate?

No, I've actually never tried to get a prescription of anything for this, I'm afraid of antipsychotics honestly. What exactly is olanzapine? I've never heard of this drug before.

Neuroleptics at sub clinical doses can be extremely effective against your kind of dissociation without having side-effects at all. It's worth considering at least.

[Mindweaver]

Spectre, how's your progress?

bawmp

[HighCommand42]

Can nootropics cause vision changes?

I posted a few weeks back on Spectre's topic on DXM induced cognitive impairment.

My link

So basically I experienced a temporary super fixing of all brain related vision, memory, concentration problems after DXM. 2 weeks later, back to same old problems. So about a week ago I started a stack. (3 months after DXM, less than a week after pot

Piracetam, Aniracetam, CDP Choline, ALCAR, and some other supplements. Anyway, I have noticed much more alertness and less fatigue already. I was wondering though primarily about vision. That was always the biggest factor for me. And not just vision, but visualization. I have peripheral vision problems and double vision problems. Also it is very hard to picture anything right now. Right after DXM everything was at it's peak performance visually and mentally. And my eyes are perfectly fine, it all comes down to neurological causes. All my vision problems only involve my brain's processing. And when I heard about piracetam's ability to make both hemispheres of the brain work together better, I was already interested. My diagnosis after all was convergence insufficiency.

So my main question is for anybody who noticed visual changes specifically from taking nootropics or any drug for that matter, what changes did you notice from which drugs? Also, anybody who had very powerful experiences from nootropics, that would also be interesting to here about, because I had that experience (from DXM).

One perfect example of who I am talking about from Mindweaver...

Nope no rashes, just crazy dreams and a little mental fatigue for the first 5 minutes upon waking, pretty much intense being-tiredness. I take one serving size/capsule of Ash and LM before bed. Still taking 1 ALCAR, 1 Piracetam and 1 Choline source in the morning but that is what I've minimized my dose too. I've been feeling so good lately, everything is 100x more lucid than a month ago, and my memory is ridiculously good. ALCAR is a miracle supplement, this is NO bullshit and no placebo. Long-term memory, short-term memory storage and recall are unbelievable. For example, I've used my credit card multiple times on the internet and had to type out the number for orders and whatnot... I'd say 10 times in the last few months. Before ALCAR and Piracetam, I never remembered the numbers because I didn't have to/didn't pay attention. Now I still didn't have to/didn't pay too much attention, but after ordering LM and another product online, I've got my card memorized.. by looking at it TWICE. And that's just the minimal effects I've gotten, ALCAR seriously has repaired SOMETHING in my brain. I've only been on it two weeks too at a steady dose.. can't wait to see 2 months' progress. My mental imagery has somehow become extremely powerful as well, I don't know how ALCAR effects that but this product is highly recommended.

[Spectre]

Hey guys.

I recently started taking Aniracetam and GABA and have noticed some extremely substantial results since then (I'm currently on day 3). I absolutely love Aniracetam and I think it's doing a lot of rewiring into my brain (I honestly don't know what to attribute my recent memory-fix to, it could be caused by either of them). I don't feel as crazy or delusional as I used to, and I have noticed a very nice sharpness added to my mind. I can think more clearly with Aniracetam, especially when I drink a cup of coffee right after. I've even noticed several moments of euphoria and I love keeping that feeling. Piracetam was alright while I was taking it but the effects were extremely subtle and the taste is unbearable most of the time. I purchased 60 750mg capsules of Aniracetam from smartpowders and currently take it with sunflower oil in the mornings and afternoon. I take 5g of GABA powder before bed to help me relax and for the HGH release (I'm currently trying to get my body back to where it was before, and gain about 20 pounds of muscle by the end of the year). I've noticed an appetite increase for the most part and just all around feeling better.

I'm also taking a cheap multi in the morning (I want to get back on Life Force but I'm really broke at the moment and looking for work has been extremely challenging for me lately), along with 200mcg of Huperzine-A. I'm about to run out of ALCAR so I only take it when I feel necessary. Would you guys recommend I add or subtract anything else from the mix?

Edited by Spectre, 12 September 2010 - 02:06 AM.

[Spectre]

Bump.

Any recommendations on my supplement regime? I was thinking about taking Deprenyl sometime as well, but I still need to do some more research on it. My goal at the moment is to continue enhancing my mind, increasing overall intelligence/focus, and add some more muscle mass/increase testosterone. Thank you.

[Ketaminous]

Hey Spectre, this thread has been a big help to me and I'd like to share my experiences with dissociative induced brain damage. Unfortunately my damage is due to the other, more "hardcore" and possibly more psychosis-inducing members of the NDMA family, ketamine and phencyclidine. The damage to my NDMA and dopamine systems is so severe I can't even take small amounts of codeine and DXM for pain and cough relief. Amounts small enough that you would be willing to give to a child (and I'd know, my Mom was/is a nurse at Sick Kid's hospital for most of he adult life) will make me blackout and have seizures from the withdrawals and neurotransmitter depletion. This happened last month from only a week of controlled use of 20-30mg of codeine a day, plus two tablespoons of DXM-containing syrup. Possibly the scariest experience of my life and was the thing that "scared me straight" from drugs. I only take a mild supplement stack now, and will do so until my brain stabilizes. Here's what I'm taking at the moment:

- Centrum basic multi-vitamin
- "Mega stress" B-Vitamin formula (Hah, I'm not that stressed it just has loads of B-vitamins and Iron)
- ~1250mg L-Glutamine for gut barrier protection
- ~1200mg Assorted Omega 3's
- 400 IU Vitamin E
- Digestive enzymes throughout the day, for gluten intolerance.

Going to add 100ug L-Huperazine A, and 500mg DL-Phenylalanine after a medical procedure on Thursday. I feel our situations are similar enough to warrant an update on my progress when I add it. I'll read the other half of this thread and try and give you some pointers on how to deal with your damaged brain after my classes tomorrow.

Take care everyone & thanks for the info, man what a first post eh? Although I suppose with a username like this it would be expected

[Animal]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

[bobman]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

I know you've never made a poor decision, or suffered from a bout of conservative incontinence, because otherwise your post would seem so douchy.

[niner]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

PCP may have one of the worst reputations of any drug. It was the undisputed king of badness, at least until crack came along and everyone seemed to forget about PCP. The bad reputation was mostly due to reports of weird shit that people did when they were high on it. Some people have smoked what they thought was weed that was actually some sort of bunk that was treated with PCP. They inevitably hate the high and are sometimes terrified by it. Street PCP is notorious for being contaminated. The "real" synthesis of PCP has a lot of steps including a moisture-sensitive Grignard reaction, but there is a bizarre bathtub synthesis that involves cooking all the reagents in one pot. It produces a plastic-y goop that actually contains a reasonable amount of PCP, along with probably a hundred other scary chemicals. I used to live in a part of Southern California that was PCP central, and I knew guys who were real connoisseurs of the stuff. Oddly enough, I never saw any psychiatric disorders in these guys, and it's not like they weren't doing enough. Shooting it up, too. Ketamine is more or less the same buzz in an attenuated version with better pharmacokinetics, and a million people have done that. I know that people who aren't ready for dissociative tripping after their minor surgery sometimes have emergence reactions, but little in the way of lasting psychiatric disorders.

So... If you are actually taking reasonably clean PCP (assuming you can find it) or Ketamine, and you aren't already mentally unstable, I don't see the evidence for psychiatric injury. Maybe my sample size just isn't big enough, but what's the evidence?

[Animal]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

I know you've never made a poor decision, or suffered from a bout of conservative incontinence, because otherwise your post would seem so douchy.

Of course I have, but smoking PCP isn't a poor decision, it's retarded.

[Spectre]

Hey Spectre, this thread has been a big help to me and I'd like to share my experiences with dissociative induced brain damage. Unfortunately my damage is due to the other, more "hardcore" and possibly more psychosis-inducing members of the NDMA family, ketamine and phencyclidine. The damage to my NDMA and dopamine systems is so severe I can't even take small amounts of codeine and DXM for pain and cough relief. Amounts small enough that you would be willing to give to a child (and I'd know, my Mom was/is a nurse at Sick Kid's hospital for most of he adult life) will make me blackout and have seizures from the withdrawals and neurotransmitter depletion. This happened last month from only a week of controlled use of 20-30mg of codeine a day, plus two tablespoons of DXM-containing syrup. Possibly the scariest experience of my life and was the thing that "scared me straight" from drugs. I only take a mild supplement stack now, and will do so until my brain stabilizes. Here's what I'm taking at the moment:

- Centrum basic multi-vitamin
- "Mega stress" B-Vitamin formula (Hah, I'm not that stressed it just has loads of B-vitamins and Iron)
- ~1250mg L-Glutamine for gut barrier protection
- ~1200mg Assorted Omega 3's
- 400 IU Vitamin E
- Digestive enzymes throughout the day, for gluten intolerance.

Going to add 100ug L-Huperazine A, and 500mg DL-Phenylalanine after a medical procedure on Thursday. I feel our situations are similar enough to warrant an update on my progress when I add it. I'll read the other half of this thread and try and give you some pointers on how to deal with your damaged brain after my classes tomorrow.

Take care everyone & thanks for the info, man what a first post eh? Although I suppose with a username like this it would be expected

Welcome to the forums, and thank you for your contributive post. How has adding Omega 3's and the other supplements affected you? I've had fish oil before and really enjoyed some of the effects but they weren't extremely pronounced, the only reason I'm not currently taking it is because of my terrible financial situation. Do you know a good source of fish oil with great prices?

Here is my current supplement regimen.

AM:
- 1-3g GABA (every now and then)
- 1g Piracetam
- 750mg Aniracetam
- 1 tbsp Sunflower Oil
- 200mcg Huperzine A (5 days a week)
- 1g ALCAR (but I'm running low so I take it on a need-only basis)
- cheap store brand multivitamin (equivalent to one-a-day men's health formula)

PM:
- 1g GABA
- 1g Piractam

I want to incorporate some more stuff and eventually quit taking Huperzine, I've read both positive and negative things about it so I'm stuck on the fence with that supplement..I haven't really noticed any negative effects with it yet but I haven't been taking it that long. I used to take SAMe @ 400mg daily but have stopped because it seems to interfere with the other supplements listed above (at least in my experience). I also have some Mentat but am currently abstaining away from that, at least after I finish the stuff I have now.

I noticed a combination of GABA and Piracetam definitely helps with my sleep, taking 1 gram of each seems to do the trick (I have terrible sleeping issues/insomnia). I'm thinking about adding ZMA or just high amounts of both zinc and magnesium to help keep my mind from over-racing when I try to get to sleep as well. May I ask why you're thinking about adding Phenylalanine to the mix?

Also, I've noticed extremely negative reactions to any amount of DXM (e.g. 15-30mg standard dose). I believe it triggered a seizure in my brain, I was feeling extreme deja vu right afterwards, so I must have a very low tolerance to even minute amounts of the drug. I had this effect about 2 years ago when I took some cold medicine at a single dose and I started freaking out and getting anxiety. I have since then strayed away from any dose of DXM and the very thought of the drug makes me nauseous. Codeine makes me feel great and I've never had a negative effect from it before, but unfortunately without health insurance I can't afford to get a prescription to it if I ever get coughing issues.

Edited by Spectre, 18 September 2010 - 06:17 PM.

[Spectre]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

PCP may have one of the worst reputations of any drug. It was the undisputed king of badness, at least until crack came along and everyone seemed to forget about PCP. The bad reputation was mostly due to reports of weird shit that people did when they were high on it. Some people have smoked what they thought was weed that was actually some sort of bunk that was treated with PCP. They inevitably hate the high and are sometimes terrified by it. Street PCP is notorious for being contaminated. The "real" synthesis of PCP has a lot of steps including a moisture-sensitive Grignard reaction, but there is a bizarre bathtub synthesis that involves cooking all the reagents in one pot. It produces a plastic-y goop that actually contains a reasonable amount of PCP, along with probably a hundred other scary chemicals. I used to live in a part of Southern California that was PCP central, and I knew guys who were real connoisseurs of the stuff. Oddly enough, I never saw any psychiatric disorders in these guys, and it's not like they weren't doing enough. Shooting it up, too. Ketamine is more or less the same buzz in an attenuated version with better pharmacokinetics, and a million people have done that. I know that people who aren't ready for dissociative tripping after their minor surgery sometimes have emergence reactions, but little in the way of lasting psychiatric disorders.

So... If you are actually taking reasonably clean PCP (assuming you can find it) or Ketamine, and you aren't already mentally unstable, I don't see the evidence for psychiatric injury. Maybe my sample size just isn't big enough, but what's the evidence?

Well, I am genetically predisposed to mental illness (my mom is schizophrenic and I was diagnosed with manic depression when I was younger, but it could purely have been my environment and not an actual chemical disruption), and I believe taking the dissociatives triggered an extremely powerful schizophrenic-like change in my brain (along with Salvia Divinorum). PCP is a lot more harmful than DXM so I could only imagine what state of mind I would have been in if I ever chose to do that drug (it's the worst one I can even think of). They are the dumbest drugs to mess with and can absolutely destroy someone's mind. I've never seen anything positive associated with those drugs, and have read countless horror stories of people going completely insane and murdering their own kids and cannibalizing others while high on PCP because of uncontrollable delusions and mania. If that drug doesn't trigger mental illnesses in people, then I don't know what does..but in my opinion PCP is the prime candidate when it comes to turning people into batshit lunatics. I will never do a harmful drug again..especially a dissociative.

Edited by Spectre, 18 September 2010 - 06:19 PM.

[chris w]

PCP is possibly the worst drug an individual can take in relation to the development of psychiatric disorders. Why the fuck would you take that? People who respect themselves and their body steer well clear.

PCP may have one of the worst reputations of any drug. It was the undisputed king of badness, at least until crack came along and everyone seemed to forget about PCP. The bad reputation was mostly due to reports of weird shit that people did when they were high on it. Some people have smoked what they thought was weed that was actually some sort of bunk that was treated with PCP. They inevitably hate the high and are sometimes terrified by it. Street PCP is notorious for being contaminated. The "real" synthesis of PCP has a lot of steps including a moisture-sensitive Grignard reaction, but there is a bizarre bathtub synthesis that involves cooking all the reagents in one pot. It produces a plastic-y goop that actually contains a reasonable amount of PCP, along with probably a hundred other scary chemicals. I used to live in a part of Southern California that was PCP central, and I knew guys who were real connoisseurs of the stuff. Oddly enough, I never saw any psychiatric disorders in these guys, and it's not like they weren't doing enough. Shooting it up, too. Ketamine is more or less the same buzz in an attenuated version with better pharmacokinetics, and a million people have done that. I know that people who aren't ready for dissociative tripping after their minor surgery sometimes have emergence reactions, but little in the way of lasting psychiatric disorders.

So... If you are actually taking reasonably clean PCP (assuming you can find it) or Ketamine, and you aren't already mentally unstable, I don't see the evidence for psychiatric injury. Maybe my sample size just isn't big enough, but what's the evidence?

Well, I am genetically predisposed to mental illness (my mom is schizophrenic and I was diagnosed with manic depression when I was younger, but it could purely have been my environment and not an actual chemical disruption), and I believe taking the dissociatives triggered an extremely powerful schizophrenic-like change in my brain (along with Salvia Divinorum). PCP is a lot more harmful than DXM so I could only imagine what state of mind I would have been in if I ever chose to do that drug (it's the worst one I can even think of). They are the dumbest drugs to mess with and can absolutely destroy someone's mind. I've never seen anything positive associated with those drugs, and have read countless horror stories of people going completely insane and murdering their own kids and cannibalizing others while high on PCP because of uncontrollable delusions and mania. If that drug doesn't trigger mental illnesses in people, then I don't know what does..but in my opinion PCP is the prime candidate when it comes to turning people into batshit lunatics. I will never do a harmful drug again..especially a dissociative.

Perhaps those horror stories were just that, don't mean to trivialise drug abuse mental effects, but this is from a report "The Dusting of America: The Image of Phencyclidine (PCP) in the Popular Media." Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. Jul-Dec 1980, from Erowid

The most repeated tale was that of self-removal of eyes which was cited 17 times during a three-year period. Different versions gave specific origins and identification. The victim was said to be a Baltimore college student (Brown 1978), the son of a Massachusetts Congressman (Chargot 1978). a man in a midwestern city (Oswald 1978) or a man from San Jose (Green 1978).

They say that in fact a student from Baltimore Charles Innes did blind himself in 1971 and he happened to claim to be actually a PCPA user, and it's not confimred if PCP would have been even avaliable to him then.

The Quincy show focused on the strength and invincibility of the user. Two popular horror stories were dramatized. an oncoming dope-crazed fiend required multiple police bullets to halt his advance [ LOL ]; and handcuffs and leg restraints were broken by users crazed and fortified by the drug

Table III
Popular Horror Tales of PCP Users
Horror Tales
Number of News
Accounts
1. Person gouges out own eyes. 17
2. Nude, unarmed man refuses to halt on police command. Dies after varying number of police bullets are fired. 13
3. Person drowns in shower stall with four inches of water. 12
4. Young man shoots and kills own father, mother and grandfather. 9
5. Person sits engulfed in flames, unable to perceive danger. 9
6. Person amputates a bodily part: nose, breast or penis. 9
7. Man crosses eight lane freeway, enters a house, randomly stabs pregnant woman and toddler. Toddler and fetus die; mother survives. 8
8. Pulls out own teeth with pliers. 7
9. Small 14-year-old girl requires many police to subdue her. 6
10. Seventeen-year-old runs naked through the streets in deep snow. 6
11. Motorcyclist points vehicle head-on into Trailways bus (or tree). 6
12. Person pops handcuff restraints. 5
13. Mother puts baby in cauldron of steaming water. 5
14. Person wanders onto freeway and does push-ups. 5

The style of presentation in all media has encompassed a dramatization of the dangers of the drug by focusing on individual, supposedly true, stories of violent even loathsome behavior carried out by individuals intoxicated by the drug

Although we have not focused on the reality of danger with PCP (and we believe the reality of danger has little to do with media handling) some comments on that danger are appropriate in this conclusion. We believe that PCP is probably the most dangerous drug, other than alcohol, that has been widely utilized by the recreational drug culture. Our criticism of media exaggeration and exploitation does not alter that assignment. However, there is reason to believe that morbidity secondary to the drug has been overestimated and is declining. Those who worked in hospital emergency rooms in the late sixties will recall that numerous young people were seen with "bad trips" secondary to LSD. Such a clinical event is now rare because, in part, the culture has learned to use the drug and has learned to anticipate its effects and to deal with them. There is evidence that a similar pattern is now operating in the PCP culture. During late 1978 and early 1979 the Harlem Hospital Emergency room saw approximately 60 cases per month of apparent PCP intoxication. The late 1979 admission rate is closer to 10 cases per month (Sixsmith 1979). Additionally, the publicity of the problem may well have led to overdiagnosis. The psychosis that may occur with PCP is distinguished only with difficulty from nondrug psychosis. Few clinical centers confirmed a clinical diagnosis of PCP with detection of the drug in bodily fluids.

Finally, as in other "drug epidemics," professionals in the drug field decide that the entire population of drug users resembles those whose self-selection brings them to where we work. For instance Wesson (1979) has described his experience in a private psychiatric hospital where his PCP patients have been chiefly auto workers whose insurance enables them to be treated at his hospital. Many workers, according to him, came to the attention of supervisors because of erratic work performance or accidents. They often had used the drug for periods of time without trouble and described friends and fellow employees who had not had particular difficulty. There may well be many such "functional" users who have never presented to emergency departments or murdered their mothers. This again does not mean to imply that such users are safe from long-term hazard with use of the drug.

Conclusion
The media presentation of PCP has been conditioned by mythic perceptions of the drug users and should have been predictable in light of previous drug-abuse stories. Malcolm Muggeridge once described journalists feverishly looking at previous newsclips to give them perspective on a story, comparing the recycling journalist to the parched desert traveler consuming his own urine (Muggeridge 1979). The particular character of the randomly violent PCP user has also attracted much attention in television drama. In fact, PCP is the ideal American television dramatic drug because it fits so many violent stereotypes. PCP may be the drug that the American media hoped LSD would be.

Edited by chris w, 19 September 2010 - 12:57 PM.

[Animal]

I'm not necessarily referring to horror stories of people gouging out their eyes, but standard non-violent psychotic delusions induced by PCP that have a lasting psychological effect on individuals. It is one of the primary drugs of abuse responsible for psychosis, whether this is due to contaminants or not is debatable.

[bobman]

I'm not necessarily referring to horror stories of people gouging out their eyes, but standard non-violent psychotic delusions induced by PCP that have a lasting psychological effect on individuals. It is one of the primary drugs of abuse responsible for psychosis, whether this is due to contaminants or not is debatable.

I don't think what the poster was looking to be castigated, to be rebuked as a moron. It was a "fucking stupid" thing to post Taber.

[Mindweaver]

If you've read through this thread, then you're aware of what my situation was/slightly still is. If there are any effects I've realized from using other drugs after DXM use, they are:

MDMA - I have never taken a pill, just molly which was pretty high grade (came as one big tan/brown crystal) and the trips have been very clean. I've only done it twice, and spread my use out, but I realized that I only really experience a blissful thought processing and a spike in energy, and I miss out on the whole "physical sensation" (where everything feels great, and touching soft things feels great and whatnot). Basically, I never felt like this:

http://www.youtube.c...?v=zHXi8h8H2VA.

I wonder if it had been the damage done from the DXM on my serotonin receptors, but I don't know. As of late I've been cycling with Piracetam/ALCAR/Choline and my memory has drastically improved, as have all other functions that I had previously thought were damaged by DXM abuse.

Opiates - I don't 'fux with these' but I have tried them. I also notice that I don't get the heavenly feelings on any of the upper-strength opiates. I've tried Opana, and I didn't get that 'full-body orgasm' feeling that heroin-esque drugs are supposed to allow you to exhibit. I did get the 'I love everyone' happy thoughts though.

Marijuana - Everything has been desensitized. I'll still get a pretty powerful high, but nothing compares to the way weed used to effect me.

Mushrooms - The first 2 times I did them were over a year ago, and I had extremely profound experiences even on minimal doses like 1/16oz. I recently did them, and although I had the same visual experience and had a state-dependent flashback of my previous trips, I wasn't wow'd by it. It was interesting, but lacked the thought-provoking aspects of my previous mushroom trips, and the visuals (trees breathing).

Edited by Mindweaver, 20 September 2010 - 02:48 AM.

[John Barleycorn]

Also, I've noticed extremely negative reactions to any amount of DXM (e.g. 15-30mg standard dose). I believe it triggered a seizure in my brain, I was feeling extreme deja vu right afterwards, so I must have a very low tolerance to even minute amounts of the drug. I had this effect about 2 years ago when I took some cold medicine at a single dose and I started freaking out and getting anxiety. I have since then strayed away from any dose of DXM and the very thought of the drug makes me nauseous.

FWIW, I can't seem to tolerate any NMDA antagonist in any dose, and that includes memantine.

and I believe taking the dissociatives triggered an extremely powerful schizophrenic-like change in my brain (along with Salvia Divinorum).

There is the issue of whether salvinorin technically counts as a dissociative, given that it is pharmacologically an opioid (mostly). OK, it feels a bit like one. As for the schizophrenia angle, I am unaware of it promoting, for example, unwelcome voices in the head. There are suggestions that it could actually reset the opioid receptor balance in a favourable way. Sure, it can also scare the pants off someone, but I'm not so sure that those effects are enduring.

Edited by John Barleycorn, 20 September 2010 - 05:09 AM.

[Ketaminous]

In the past I have smoked and orally ingested both marijuana and "CBD" (hash) oil I believe contained PCP. It's not something I really intended to use so much, but it was there... and readily dissapeared in my presence, sometimes in large quantities. The compulsive re-dosing can really push you to do things in the dissociated state that you would have thought incredibly foolish, it's not a hard thing to imagine considering the nature and effects of the drug. I've estimated my lifetime use at around 50-60mg, easily more than 2/3rds of which consumed within a very short period. Not really proud of that but it was during a desperate and difficult time, I would never recommend that level of use.

I've probably absorbed around a quarter gram of quite scary and most assuredly brain-damaging precursor chemicals. These include PCC, piperidine, cyclohexanone and others which most every study will tell you can cause "schizophrenic-like brain changes" even at very low, approaching microgram levels. I still feel like there's another level to the world superimposed over reality that interferes with mental tasks, I've just grown to accept it. I haven't smoked or ingested PCP in any quantity for more than 9 months, and it still seems present. Ketamine on the other hand is much more mild, it's like a professorial version of PCP that is far cleaner and useful medically. I don't think the K or even PCP itself caused so much brain damage, as Olney's famous lesions were never duplicated in human studies. But the combination of precursors from street PCP & the resulting depleted bodily state definitely left it's mark on my brain chemistry.

I felt "stuck" mentally for months and almost had to completely drop out of school last year. I went from pulling at least 70's in 3-4 courses a semester to passing TWO courses over an entire school year, very embarrassing to explain in any case. I'm a philosophy major and am thus graded on the basis of my ideas so it's been a pretty serious concern for me. More recently I've re-gained my grasp on my verbal and writing abilities, through practice and more frequent meditation and abstinence from dissociatives. I don't really consider anyone's responses offensive, I know alot of people will react from a kind of concern for me and I appreciate it. These are just the assumptions and guiding thoughts that got me through the last 9 or so months alive, for better or for worse.

Welcome to the forums, and thank you for your contributive post. How has adding Omega 3's and the other supplements affected you? I've had fish oil before and really enjoyed some of the effects but they weren't extremely pronounced, the only reason I'm not currently taking it is because of my terrible financial situation. Do you know a good source of fish oil with great prices?

Here is my current supplement regimen.

AM:
- 1-3g GABA (every now and then)
- 1g Piracetam
- 750mg Aniracetam
- 1 tbsp Sunflower Oil
- 200mcg Huperzine A (5 days a week)
- 1g ALCAR (but I'm running low so I take it on a need-only basis)
- cheap store brand multivitamin (equivalent to one-a-day men's health formula)

PM:
- 1g GABA
- 1g Piractam

I want to incorporate some more stuff and eventually quit taking Huperzine, I've read both positive and negative things about it so I'm stuck on the fence with that supplement..I haven't really noticed any negative effects with it yet but I haven't been taking it that long. I used to take SAMe @ 400mg daily but have stopped because it seems to interfere with the other supplements listed above (at least in my experience). I also have some Mentat but am currently abstaining away from that, at least after I finish the stuff I have now.

I noticed a combination of GABA and Piracetam definitely helps with my sleep, taking 1 gram of each seems to do the trick (I have terrible sleeping issues/insomnia). I'm thinking about adding ZMA or just high amounts of both zinc and magnesium to help keep my mind from over-racing when I try to get to sleep as well. May I ask why you're thinking about adding Phenylalanine to the mix?

Also, I've noticed extremely negative reactions to any amount of DXM (e.g. 15-30mg standard dose). I believe it triggered a seizure in my brain, I was feeling extreme deja vu right afterwards, so I must have a very low tolerance to even minute amounts of the drug. I had this effect about 2 years ago when I took some cold medicine at a single dose and I started freaking out and getting anxiety. I have since then strayed away from any dose of DXM and the very thought of the drug makes me nauseous. Codeine makes me feel great and I've never had a negative effect from it before, but unfortunately without health insurance I can't afford to get a prescription to it if I ever get coughing issues.

With huperazine I notice the only side effects are some slight muscle-clenching if taken on a fairly empty stomach. It's not something I think necessary for taking every day, your five day a week regimen sounds about close to mine... Or what mine would be ideally, haha. You mentioned magnesium, I'm fairly sure I heard calcium and magnesium are the body's NDMA-inhibitors to a certain degree. Messing with these levels with synthetic drugs causes a hypersensitive of the whole mechanism. I'm done stating the obvious, btw NDMA is apparantly an important site for tuning many different receptors in the brain, could be another reason why tweaking it causes such intense distortions of self. Extra magnesium and zinc couldn't hurt, was thinking of adding that recently as well. I don't feel like I need l-glutamine as of recently, dunno if I'm finally getting it from food or what.

I'm using the phenylalanine for it's anti-depressant/analgesic effects, on top of adding some fuel for the dopamine fire. The huperazine plus that is key for me, they seeming to slot nicely into my brain and now short term memory feels well... Human & sensical again, haha, whatever that means. I love it, I don't take them on weekend and enjoy a mental rest, which I think keeps me just short of hypomania. The perfect place to work from if controlled properly, I feel like the two-day rest is an integration period where I can lay back from my weekday self and center myself. I happen to love the way I can stagger my work across the week and finally get shit done. I'm pretty pleased with how this worked out and I hope it will bring me through to the end of the semester without too many side-effects mental or physical. If I do or find anything helpful or synergistic to combine with them I'll let ya know. K,PeaCe

Edited by Ketaminous, 27 September 2010 - 07:46 AM.

[NR2(x)]

D-serine or D-cycloserine should be useful in disassociative damage as it facilitites associative type communication(carry the message,NR1A), should have thought of this earlier.

I have serious concerns regarding supplemental Vitamin E. As tocopherol competitivly inhibit Tocotrienol, which has seriously important biological roles

[Ketaminous]

D-serine or D-cycloserine should be useful in disassociative damage as it facilitites associative type communication(carry the message,NR1A), should have thought of this earlier.

I have serious concerns regarding supplemental Vitamin E. As tocopherol competitivly inhibit Tocotrienol, which has seriously important biological roles

Interesting on both accounts, although my current regime is working very nicely. I've stopped the vitamin E as I don't seem to be getting any major benefits from it, and I can tell that I'm getting more nutrition from my diet. I picked up some calcium/magnesium tabs today and it seems to alleviate some of the muscle-clenching that huperazine can cause. It's a nice feeling, having your brain and body in line with each other. Right now I've narrowed my supplement intake down to:

-Basic multivitamin
-Half a B-50 tab
-100ug huperazine-A
-1000mg DL-phenylalanine (500mg x2)
-1200mg omega 3's (~600mg x2)
-300mg calcium citrate/150mg magnesium/200 IU vit D3

Everything fits in a little pill organizer and is only about 8 caps/tablets a day, a far cry from the dozens I used to take. I experimented with high dose inositol with GABA and L-Glutamine in early 2010, such a pain! You have to have some sort of mild OCD to even take that regime properly, the amount of capsules I've made is on par with your local illicit pharmaceutical distributor I called it health-store lithium since it had a strong mood-stabilizing effect without being too taxing on the body. I definately needed it at the time, but this works better for the kind of depression I'm facing right now. The cognitive enhancement lets me plan and accomplish tasks with ease, it cuts through my melancholic anhedonia pretty well. Instead of dwelling negatively I now spend my free time researching brain chemistry and music production. I feel like after a few weeks of this I'll feel 100% and maybe won't even need it in the future, but it's nice to know that for what I used to spend on marijuana in a day or two, I can have mental peace for months

[bobman]

Im not to shore about aniracetam, Theres are recent article regarding it that should some alarming features, I thought it speed up my mind but maybe lost the higher end functions.

I really think targeting Sigma-1 is the way to go, DXM causes specific changes and sigma-1 drugs countact those negatives, Huperzine maybe a sigma-1 or very similar per other recent huperzine post. You could buy that article, any friends who study? and take it to a shrink and get donepezil, you would only want 2-4mg per day.

Most docs are paid to prescibe antiphycotics to patients even generics, without going into the details they could treat most of the individuals with drugs of opposite effect and cure the negatives(ps this doesnt mean d2 agonists) Getting healthy is key

St. John's wort is a sigma-1 antagonist, at least hyperforin is, although it's likely pseudohyperforin is as well considering their overlapping effects on signalling.

[NR2(x)]

I would be interested to see an excert showing that hyperforin is a sigma-1 antagonist. I believe that this maybe through indirect means, as i understand hyperforin to competitively inhibt 6-dopamine hydroxilase which would increase sigma-2 agonism, which competitively inhibits sigma-1. This type of inhibition may not be of concern or could be balanced out.
hyperforin is an interesting compound for most

[bobman]

I would be interested to see an excert showing that hyperforin is a sigma-1 antagonist. I believe that this maybe through indirect means, as i understand hyperforin to competitively inhibt 6-dopamine hydroxilase which would increase sigma-2 agonism, which competitively inhibits sigma-1. This type of inhibition may not be of concern or could be balanced out.
hyperforin is an interesting compound for most

Hyperforin and hypericin inhibit binding to sigma-1, in different concentrations, and apparently the IC50 values are at such high concentrations (both hypericin and hyperforin have IC50 values in the 1-10 micromolar range, which is impossible to reach except by abusive ingestion). This effect, unless I'm misinterpreting the results, is not a direct action on sigma 1, like you stated, although I have not read of any effects on sigma 2, would interested in reading more about this. However, SJW has very complex in vivo action and I have read very much in a short time, and cannot compartmentalize its effects neatly. One particularly confusing bit is that SJW antidpressant effects are abolished by sigma1 antagonists, which suggests to me that hypericum perforatum is actually an indirect sigma1 agonist in vivo, but I guess then I do not understand the difference between a substance that antagonizes by reducing ligand binding at the receptor site, and one that binds to the ligand site, directly blocking any further signal mediation, does that sound sane? Anyways, it seems like the action prevents binding, but does not increase dissasociation, so what is the clinical implication of this?

http://www.sciencedi...2a&searchtype=a

"Sigma receptors

In rats rimcazole (a sigma1 receptor antagonist) counteracts the antidepressant effects of the SJW extract, evaluated with the “forced swimming test” (Panocka et al., 2000). However, binding to sigma receptors was not significantly inhibited by two SJW extracts, or by hyperforin, hyperforin analogues or biapigenin (Gobbi et al., 2001). Hypericin and pseudohypericin inhibited ligand binding to sigma receptors with IC50 values of 1.4 μg/mL (Raffa, 1998), although this inhibitory effect of hypericin is partly light-dependent (Gobbi et al., 2001). The hypericin concentration required for these interactions appears to be much higher than the nanomolar plasma concentrations reached in humans after pharmacologically effective doses of SJW extracts (Staffeldt et al., 1994).

In spite of the lack of affinity in vitro, it was recently reported that pre-treatment of rats with pharmacologically active doses of SJW extracts or hyperforin trimethoxybenzoate reduced ligand binding to sigma receptors, measured ex vivo (Pirona et al., 2002 and Cervo et al., 2004). The antidepressant-like activity of hyperforin trimethoxybenzoate was completely antagonized by pre-treating rats with BD 1047, a selective sigma1 antagonist (Cervo et al., 2004). These results, together with the observation that agonists at sigma1 receptors are active in antidepressant models in rats (Matsuno et al., 1996), suggest that the SJW extract's antidepressant effect might be mediated by an indirect action on sigma receptors (i.e. the formation of an un identified metabolite or the release of an endogenous ligand)."

Btw what does that mean, that it is partially light-dependent? That sounds like it means that the antagonism is an indirect effect, mediated by excitation (induced by light).

Then check out this study, on h. trimethoxybenzoate:
http://www.sciencedi...54&searchtype=a
Affinity table (IDN 5491 is the trimethoxybenzoate)

SERT DAT BDZ-R SIGMA-R
Vehicle (CMC 1.6%) 100±6 (n=11) 100±8 (n=11) 100±9 (n=11) 100±8 (n=11)
Hypericum extract 111±10 (n=11) 115±8 (n=11) 102±7 (n=11) 66±7**(n=11)
Vehicle (Tween 80 4%) 100±5 (n=6) 100±13 (n=6) 100±4 (n=6) 100±5 (n=29)
IDN 5491 101±9 (n=6) 105±12 (n=6) 105±3 (n=6) 86±4* (n=30)

"
In vivo treatment with H. perforatum L. extract and IDN 5491 did not affect the binding of [3H]citalopram, [3H]WIN-35,428, and [3H]flumazenil to 5-HT transporters, DA transporters and BDZ receptors (Table 4).

[3H]DTG binding to cortical sigma receptors was significantly lower in the brains of rats treated with the extract and IDN 5491 (by 34% and 14%, respectively). Importantly, the decrease of “ex-vivo” [3H]DTG binding was no longer apparent when the samples were treated to favour the dissociation of a previously bound ligand (see Materials and methods). In these conditions, always assayed in parallel, [3H]DTG binding in the brains of extract- or IDN 5491-treated rats was respectively 98±10% (n=5) and 100±5% (n=30) of the corresponding vehicle-treated rats. These data exclude the likelihood of treatment-induced down-regulation of sigma receptors."

Edited by deletethisaccount, 14 October 2010 - 10:27 PM.

[Spectre]

Bump...

I did some research online, and realized that both dextromethorphan, and salvinorin-a (from salvia divinorum), are both k-opioid receptor agonists..and I've gotten deja vu after doing both of those..could I have perhaps damaged my temporal lobe or k-opioid receptor system by overactivating them from taking these drugs?..I have a feeling that this part of my brain never healed itself..does anyone know anything about this specific receptor system?

I was thinking about looking into some k-opioid receptor antagonists, nothing too strong, but perhaps it could fix the deja vu/psychosis I've been dealing with for over 2 years now. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

Edited by Spectre, 21 November 2010 - 11:21 AM.

[Spectre]

Bump...