38 replies to this topic

[taakinan]

Hi, I read about cerebrolysin on this sight, and was considering buying.

I saw something called Cerebrosene from cerebralhealth.com and when I look at the links they have for clinical research, it actually shows articles referring to cerebrolysin (see: http://www.cerebrose...alresearch.html ). Cerebrosene and cerebrolysin are both peptides with the same purpose, but the sequence of cerebrosene is not mentioned, and it comes in a capsule rather than an injectable form. This seems suspicious, obviously, but I have read about people here buying from cerebralhealth for other products. I imagine it would be extremely bad for their reputation if they are just trying to sell junk with a similar name. Since the composition of cerebrolysin peptide sequence is known, it is probably easy to copy. I'm not really sure why a copy would have a different delivery system though, if it were legit (if cerebrolysin could be taken orally I am sure they would not make it injectable).

I am wondering, has anyone tried cerebrosene, and is it a reputable? And if anyone knows if cerebrolysin and cerebrosene are basically the same in effectiveness? If unknown, any opinions on the likelihood of this being valid?

[Rational Madman]

Hi, I read about cerebrolysin on this sight, and was considering buying.

I saw something called Cerebrosene from cerebralhealth.com and when I look at the links they have for clinical research, it actually shows articles referring to cerebrolysin (see: http://www.cerebrose...alresearch.html ). Cerebrosene and cerebrolysin are both peptides with the same purpose, but the sequence of cerebrosene is not mentioned, and it comes in a capsule rather than an injectable form. This seems suspicious, obviously, but I have read about people here buying from cerebralhealth for other products. I imagine it would be extremely bad for their reputation if they are just trying to sell junk with a similar name. Since the composition of cerebrolysin peptide sequence is known, it is probably easy to copy. I'm not really sure why a copy would have a different delivery system though, if it were legit (if cerebrolysin could be taken orally I am sure they would not make it injectable).

I am wondering, has anyone tried cerebrosene, and is it a reputable? And if anyone knows if cerebrolysin and cerebrosene are basically the same in effectiveness? If unknown, any opinions on the likelihood of this being valid?

For cerebrolysin to exert its effects, it must be administered intra-muscularly. As far as I know, there is no evidence that it will provide a statistically significant benefit if it's delivered in a oral capsule. Despite the claims of proprietors, this is the reality. So, I would wait for new evidence to emerge---which due to a lack of research interest in the United States, is unlikely to be ever forthcoming.

Edited by Rol82, 06 May 2010 - 03:47 AM.

[chrono]

On one hand, the version of Cerebrolysin which is patented for oral administration (Memoprove, N-PEP-12, which has some of the same peptides) has not had very good reviews, anywhere. And theoretically, these peptides should have some difficulty being absorbed effectively through the intestine.

On the other hand, this study showed some effect:

Oral Cerebrolysin enhances brain alpha activity and improves cognitive performance in elderly control subjects.

Cerebrolysin is a porcine brain derived peptide preparation with potential neurotrophic activity. The effects of a single oral dose of the Cerebrolysin solution (30 ml) on brain bioelectrical activity and on cognitive performance were investigated in healthy elderly people. A single oral dose of Cerebrolysin induced a progressive increase in relative alpha activity power from 1 to 6 hours after treatment in almost all the brain electrodes in elderly control subjects. As compared with baseline alpha power (45.8+/-9.5%), the increase in relative alpha activity in the left occipital electrode (O1) reached significant values at 1 hour (57.2+/-8.5%; p < 0.05), 3 hours (59.4+/-7.6%; p < 0.05) and 6 hours (63.4+/-9.8%; p < 0.05) after Cerebrolysin administration. Enhancement in relative alpha power was accompanied by a generalized decrease in slow delta activity that was maximum at 6 hours after Cerebrolysin intake. A significant improvement in memory performance, evaluated with items of the ADAS cog, was also found in elderly people taken a single dose of oral Cerebrolysin (6.9+/-1.0 errors at baseline versus 4.9+/-1.0 errors after treatment; p < 0.01). This memory improvement was more evident in recognition (2.8+/-0.6 errors vs. 1.5+/-0.7 errors; p < 0.05) than in recall tasks (4.1+/-0.5 errors versus 3.4+/-0.5 errors; ns). These data indicate that Cerebrolysin potentiates brain alpha activity, reduces slow EEG delta frequencies and improves memory performance in healthy elderly humans, suggesting that this compound activates cerebral mechanisms related to attention and memory processes. According to the present results, it seems that oral Cerebrolysin might be useful for the treatment of memory impairment and brain damage in eldely subjects with or without neurodegenerative disorders.

PMID: 10961443 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I'll e-mail CH and ask about the composition.

[rwac]

On one hand, the version of Cerebrolysin which is patented for oral administration (Memoprove, N-PEP-12, which has some of the same peptides) has not had very good reviews, anywhere. And theoretically, these peptides should have some difficulty being absorbed effectively through the intestine.

I wonder if liposomal administration would work.

[chrono]

I wonder if liposomal administration would work.

A very interesting question. Did a little reading about liposomes this morning, and it seems like they can be conjugated with peptides. Couldn't find anything indicating whether this is something which can be done at home; it was referenced as an "easy" reaction, but it still might require complicated chemicals and equipment.

Cerebrolysin itself would probably be a bad candidate for this, as it's a mix of like one or two dozen amino acids plus a mess of extracted peptides under a certain size. N-PEP-12 is a synthesis of two of these peptides, though, so it might be a good candidate to try this with.

[rwac]

A very interesting question. Did a little reading about liposomes this morning, and it seems like they can be conjugated with peptides. Couldn't find anything indicating whether this is something which can be done at home; it was referenced as an "easy" reaction, but it still might require complicated chemicals and equipment.

Cerebrolysin itself would probably be a bad candidate for this, as it's a mix of like one or two dozen amino acids plus a mess of extracted peptides under a certain size. N-PEP-12 is a synthesis of two of these peptides, though, so it might be a good candidate to try this with.

That part atleast shouldn't be too hard. It will need lecithin and an ultrasonic cleaner, but that's about it.
As long as it dissolves in water.

http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/62

[chrono]

That part atleast shouldn't be too hard. It will need lecithin and an ultrasonic cleaner, but that's about it.
As long as it dissolves in water.

http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/62

Thanks for the heads-up, I just found the homemade liposomes thread as well. I love the idea of DIY advanced delivery systems.

I feel like all I've seen so far is application for systemic drugs: curcumin, resveratrol, vit c, cancer drugs, etc. I've seen "delivery to specific tissues/organs" as a selling point a couple of times. Do you happen to know how effective liposomal delivery is for drugs which need to get to the brain?

[ken_akiba]

A simple eyedrop application maybe?

Edit: I wonder if oxazoles or thiazoles can be of any use.

Edited by ken_akiba, 07 May 2010 - 04:53 AM.

[rwac]

I feel like all I've seen so far is application for systemic drugs: curcumin, resveratrol, vit c, cancer drugs, etc. I've seen "delivery to specific tissues/organs" as a selling point a couple of times. Do you happen to know how effective liposomal delivery is for drugs which need to get to the brain?

Well, it gets into the brain from IM administration, right ?
Apparently polypeptides are also used to target liposomes to a specific tissue, so they may become part of the liposome structure as opposed to being encapsulated within it.

Only one way to find out ...

A simple eyedrop application maybe?

Edit: I wonder if oxazoles or thiazoles can be of any use.

That's a nifty idea. I wonder how hard it would be to properly buffer a solution with this stuff.
Dissolve it in premade eye drops ?

Can you clarify what you would use those compounds for ?

Edited by rwac, 07 May 2010 - 05:02 AM.

[ken_akiba]

In my university settings, the bold and brave apply all kinds of stuff in eyedrop route. I would think saline solution will work unless cerebrolysin is extremely lipophilic.
As to oxazoles or thiazoles, I was thinking nonribosomal peptide synthetases but achieving this will require a professional lab I guess.

[rwac]

In my university settings, the bold and brave apply all kinds of stuff in eyedrop route. I would think saline solution will work unless cerebrolysin is extremely lipophilic.

I've only heard of it used for NGF.
A dose of cerebrolysin or cerebrosene is 800mg may be too much for eyedrop route ?

[chrono]

Just got an e-mail back from Cerebral Health. All they would say is "They are very similar. Cerebrosene is an oral version." This really doesn't answer my question very well. Since cerebrolysin is an extraction from animal brains which depends on some specific chromatograph/dialysis techniques, it's not exactly the kind of thing I'd be comfortable taking a "generic" version of without further information. I believe it's still patented by Ebewe as well, but I could be mistaken...

Well, it gets into the brain from IM administration, right ?
Apparently polypeptides are also used to target liposomes to a specific tissue, so they may become part of the liposome structure as opposed to being encapsulated within it.

OK, so liposomes wouldn't do much past the point of getting it into the bloodstream? That tissue targeting explanation threw me, I thought there might be a potential to inhibit crossing of the BBB. Guess I just need to find a clearer explanation of the Pk when I have some time.

A simple eyedrop application maybe?

That's an awesome idea, though I think the dosage might be wrong for this. The N-PEP-12 patent/tests say the composition is 10-30% peptides, and a single dose is 90mg or 180mg. 10-50mg might be a lot of powder to put in your eye, though I'm sure less is required via this route. Haven't read up on the dynamics of conjunctive administration yet.

Can you be more specific about what kinds of substances people there apply via eye drops? Am very curious!

Edited by chrono, 07 May 2010 - 08:13 PM.

[synapse]

Ebewe is seeking a patent for using neuropeptides to treat neurological diseases. They are currently in the patent application stage.

See http://appft1.uspto......hic peptides"

Edited by synapse, 07 May 2010 - 10:32 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Just got an e-mail back from Cerebral Health. All they would say is "They are very similar. Cerebrosene is an oral version." This really doesn't answer my question very well. Since cerebrolysin is an extraction from animal brains which depends on some specific chromatograph/dialysis techniques, it's not exactly the kind of thing I'd be comfortable taking a "generic" version of without further information. I believe it's still patented by Ebewe as well, but I could be mistaken...

Well, it gets into the brain from IM administration, right ?
Apparently polypeptides are also used to target liposomes to a specific tissue, so they may become part of the liposome structure as opposed to being encapsulated within it.

OK, so liposomes wouldn't do much past the point of getting it into the bloodstream? That tissue targeting explanation threw me, I thought there might be a potential to inhibit crossing of the BBB. Guess I just need to find a clearer explanation of the Pk when I have some time.

A simple eyedrop application maybe?

That's an awesome idea, though I think the dosage might be wrong for this. The N-PEP-12 patent/tests say the composition is 10-30% peptides, and a single dose is 90mg or 180mg. 10-50mg might be a lot of powder to put in your eye, though I'm sure less is required via this route. Haven't read up on the dynamics of conjunctive administration yet.

Can you be more specific about what kinds of substances people there apply via eye drops? Am very curious!


I shot them an email as you did, wanting further clarification on a peptide-based oral supplement. To many cleaving enzymes in the human body to let many peptides through, unlike creatine, and like glutathione - orally. The eye drop idea is intriguing - are you guys part of a supplement company or something?

[chrono]

Ebewe is seeking a patent for using neuropeptides to treat neurological diseases. They are currently in the patent application stage.

See http://appft1.uspto......hic peptides"

Thanks! Nice patent. It lists 3 peptide sequences, but it doesn't say if they're related to cerebrolysin. Could be more derivatives, but they're not the ones listed in the N-PEP-12 patent.

I was thinking of patent WO9904781, which describes composition and uses of cerebrolysin itself. Also, is seems that "cerebrolysin" is a registered trademark of Ebewe.

[synapse]

Ebewe is seeking a patent for using neuropeptides to treat neurological diseases. They are currently in the patent application stage.

See http://appft1.uspto......hic peptides"

Thanks! Nice patent. It lists 3 peptide sequences, but it doesn't say if they're related to cerebrolysin. Could be more derivatives, but they're not the ones listed in the N-PEP-12 patent.

I was thinking of patent WO9904781, which describes composition and uses of cerebrolysin itself. Also, is seems that "cerebrolysin" is a registered trademark of Ebewe.

Cerebrolysin is a trademark of Ebewe and much of the literature and studies on neuropeptides does not adequately make distinctions between the neuropeptide sequences themselves and the trademark name 'cerebrolysin'.

Thanks for the other patent link.

[synapse]

somethingtoxic- just wanted to let you know that your email was received. I am considering submitting our own patent for Cerebrosene and need to be a bit careful about divulging too much information until I get the paperwork in. I'm not sure if I will pursue the patent or not due to Cerebral Health's overall focus on the international OTC market, but I have been thinking more about it due to our recent discussions here and the possibility of marketing Cerebrosene as a medical food.

Edited by synapse, 08 May 2010 - 11:54 AM.

[chrono]

I am considering submitting our own patent for Cerebrosene and need to be a bit careful about divulging too much information until I get the paperwork in. I'm not sure if I will pursue the patent or not due to Cerebral Health's overall focus on the international OTC market, but I have been thinking more about it due to our recent discussions here and the possibility of marketing Cerebrosene as a medical food.

I really hope you do this! Peptide drugs have amazing potential, and it doesn't seem like anyone in the American market is doing much about it.

Cerebrolysin is a trademark of Ebewe and much of the literature and studies on neuropeptides does not adequately make distinctions between the neuropeptide sequences themselves and the trademark name 'cerebrolysin'.

The general process for extraction of brain fractions was described in the early 60s for treatment of schizophrenia, so it really doesn't "belong" to Ebewe, I don't think. But AFAIK they're the only big pharma company producing this particular formulation. And identification of the peptides has only taken place in the past 5 years or so, and may still be ongoing. There is little mention of structural elucidation in the literature, and patents are vague on the relationship. If you know of any sources which describe cerebrolysin's composition, I'd be very curious to hear about it.

I can readily appreciate the need for secrecy in this situation. However, knowing which sequences you're using, how they're derived (i.e. animal extraction vs. synthetic), and consequently which part of the literature could be used to ascertain their efficacy, would make it a lot easier to make an informed decision about this product. Especially as it's an oral formulation, and 99% of cerebrolysin literature (in fact, every paper except the one I posted above) deals with IM or IV administration.

Edited by chrono, 08 May 2010 - 05:03 PM.

[Guacamolium]

somethingtoxic- just wanted to let you know that your email was received. I am considering submitting our own patent for Cerebrosene and need to be a bit careful about divulging too much information until I get the paperwork in. I'm not sure if I will pursue the patent or not due to Cerebral Health's overall focus on the international OTC market, but I have been thinking more about it due to our recent discussions here and the possibility of marketing Cerebrosene as a medical food.

Understood, but if you guys decide to NOT sell Cerebrosene (nice TM BTW) will you guys at least divulge the exact peptide source - as in porcine, or something else?

If I knew the constituents I could run it through a cleaving engine, and see the results, which I don't personally think would be good, but it's up to the exact peptides that determines whether it's good or not. That, you guys are hiding, which makes me very skeptical. I also know patents, and once submitted, you are safe from competitors, unless you're dumb and let a competitor use your newly patented product and don't litigate them for it in the patents interim.

[Guacamolium]

Wow, I just figured out that it takes less than $10 to make 2000ml of cerebrolysin, while 10ml in ten separate vials costs $30 plus shipping. Yeah, I'll definitely be making my own cerebrolysin. That markup is preposterous.

[chrono]

Wow, I just figured out that it takes less than $10 to make 2000ml of cerebrolysin, while 10ml in ten separate vials costs $30 plus shipping. Yeah, I'll definitely be making my own cerebrolysin. That markup is preposterous.

I'm curious (and a little skeptical) about how you arrived at this. The Cerebrolysin patent I linked to specifies 16 amino acids and an undisclosed quantity of <10kDa brain fraction peptides as composition. There are a few papers which I'm hoping might yield a better analysis in the full text. But I think what you're talking about may be incomplete, or not truly cerebrolysin.

Also, if you're at liberty to say, where did you find cerebrolysin 10x10mL for $30? That's about 1/3 the price of the cheapest online pharmacy I've seen.

Edited by chrono, 10 May 2010 - 09:02 AM.

[synapse]

I am considering submitting our own patent for Cerebrosene and need to be a bit careful about divulging too much information until I get the paperwork in. I'm not sure if I will pursue the patent or not due to Cerebral Health's overall focus on the international OTC market, but I have been thinking more about it due to our recent discussions here and the possibility of marketing Cerebrosene as a medical food.

I really hope you do this! Peptide drugs have amazing potential, and it doesn't seem like anyone in the American market is doing much about it.

Cerebrolysin is a trademark of Ebewe and much of the literature and studies on neuropeptides does not adequately make distinctions between the neuropeptide sequences themselves and the trademark name 'cerebrolysin'.

The general process for extraction of brain fractions was described in the early 60s for treatment of schizophrenia, so it really doesn't "belong" to Ebewe, I don't think. But AFAIK they're the only big pharma company producing this particular formulation. And identification of the peptides has only taken place in the past 5 years or so, and may still be ongoing. There is little mention of structural elucidation in the literature, and patents are vague on the relationship. If you know of any sources which describe cerebrolysin's composition, I'd be very curious to hear about it.

I can readily appreciate the need for secrecy in this situation. However, knowing which sequences you're using, how they're derived (i.e. animal extraction vs. synthetic), and consequently which part of the literature could be used to ascertain their efficacy, would make it a lot easier to make an informed decision about this product. Especially as it's an oral formulation, and 99% of cerebrolysin literature (in fact, every paper except the one I posted above) deals with IM or IV administration.

Thanks for the encouragement Chrono. As you know, the patent process is a bit long (to say the least). I submitted a patent for our Synaptine product line a couple years ago and while the application has been published, it could take several more years to finalize.

I personally think neuropeptides and brain proteins are some of the most exciting and potentially efficacious avenues to pursue for neurodegenerative conditions. Another company in our building is working on creating specific proteins for AD, Huntington's and Parkinson's. They have Paul Greengard on their team who is a nobel laureate in CNS medicine (see http://en.wikipedia..../Paul_Greengard for info on his work). I also have a strong feeling that if the patent goes through for Ebewe on cerebrolysin, they will likely get bought out by a larger pharma company. The research on the neuropeptides is promising and I would not be surprised if we do not see a prescription product hitting the American market in the near future. Most of the other potential product avenues for big pharma have been duds.

[taakinan]

Hi guys, I have tried the product cerebrosene since roughly the beginning of the thread. I am not sure if it did anything I would have noticed by now, but I have not noticed anything. I did not expect anything instantaneous, but I have read about people using the real cerebrolysin and noticing effects in the 1-2 week range. I know there was one paper about an effect on alzheimers patients from oral cerebrolysin, but for whatever reason I felt none... Either it requires alzheimers to be useful or it is not the same as cerebrolysin. I will keep using the rest of the bottle and post if there is any change, but it seems safe to say the skeptics were right -_-. After it is done I will try the real cerebrolysin...

For Chrono who was wondering what the composition is, I believe it is a pancreatic digest because it smells identical to the pancreatic digests in my lab. Just kidding, but it does smell the same, lol... ;o Chrono said cerebrolysin is an extract from brain tissue which makes me wonder why they do not just synthesize the active peptide through cheaper means.

It is OT but to say something nice about the vendor I did order something else from cerebral health at the same time- their "synaptine ultra" (400 mg pramiracetam, 300 mg alpha GPC) and from the first usage noticed quick effects (first time trying a nootropic) and so I reordered it.

[Guacamolium]

Okay, well either I have Alzheimer's or one of its close diagnostic relatives while in my 20's, because Cerebrolysin, although I took it for a month once intramuscularly, it made it into my top 5 CErs after a couple weeks. Cerebrolysin contact with my brain is night and day, no placebo effect, no way. I did worry about long term - year plus - usage of it, but I haven't researched that aspect since and am dubious about an oral peptide product, since a simple run-through of a chemistry cleaving engine will show if the peptides make it through intact or not orally.

One way to get around this is to find the cleaved amino, and use its enantiomer in its stead - just a tip for the product holder of cerebrosene.

[taakinan]

Okay, well either I have Alzheimer's or one of its close diagnostic relatives while in my 20's, because Cerebrolysin, although I took it for a month once intramuscularly, it made it into my top 5 CErs after a couple weeks. Cerebrolysin contact with my brain is night and day, no placebo effect, no way. I did worry about long term - year plus - usage of it, but I haven't researched that aspect since and am dubious about an oral peptide product, since a simple run-through of a chemistry cleaving engine will show if the peptides make it through intact or not orally.

One way to get around this is to find the cleaved amino, and use its enantiomer in its stead - just a tip for the product holder of cerebrosene.

I was referring to ORAL cerebrolysin where it was used for Alzheimers patients, supposedly effectively. Which was based on using cerebrosene, not cerebrolysin, I don't even know if their activity is the same. I don't doubt Cerebrolysin is effective for some people and never tried.

[Guacamolium]

Okay, well either I have Alzheimer's or one of its close diagnostic relatives while in my 20's, because Cerebrolysin, although I took it for a month once intramuscularly, it made it into my top 5 CErs after a couple weeks. Cerebrolysin contact with my brain is night and day, no placebo effect, no way. I did worry about long term - year plus - usage of it, but I haven't researched that aspect since and am dubious about an oral peptide product, since a simple run-through of a chemistry cleaving engine will show if the peptides make it through intact or not orally.

One way to get around this is to find the cleaved amino, and use its enantiomer in its stead - just a tip for the product holder of cerebrosene.

I was referring to ORAL cerebrolysin where it was used for Alzheimers patients, supposedly effectively. Which was based on using cerebrosene, not cerebrolysin, I don't even know if their activity is the same. I don't doubt Cerebrolysin is effective for some people and never tried.

Hmm, interesting. I wouldn't expect an oral peptide matrix to illicit an effect akin to IM cerebrolysin activity. My question is; what the hell is cerebrosene? Just cerebrolysin taken orally? CRB has a 10 peptide matrix in approximated ratios but exactly extracted a certain way from porcine brain from the patent holder Ebewe. Maybe cerebrosene is just those 2000ml bags of cerebrolysin administered orally.

Synapse won't say, but patents in the US are public domain no matter what their status (unless you've enamored DARPA with your patent) and we can derive the exact info on cerebrosene through that. I'm not going to invade his privacy and release any info when he wants it kept secret, but I also want the public users to be informed, too, so I gave the way to find out, and I will look the other way else wise. I'm telling you though, the longer peptides WILL get cleaved by the liver or bloodstream before BBB unless Synapse pulled an Einstein and directed enantiomer substitutions for the cleaved.

If it works for you, gopher it, otterwise choose otter options.

[taakinan]

Okay, well either I have Alzheimer's or one of its close diagnostic relatives while in my 20's, because Cerebrolysin, although I took it for a month once intramuscularly, it made it into my top 5 CErs after a couple weeks. Cerebrolysin contact with my brain is night and day, no placebo effect, no way. I did worry about long term - year plus - usage of it, but I haven't researched that aspect since and am dubious about an oral peptide product, since a simple run-through of a chemistry cleaving engine will show if the peptides make it through intact or not orally.

One way to get around this is to find the cleaved amino, and use its enantiomer in its stead - just a tip for the product holder of cerebrosene.

I was referring to ORAL cerebrolysin where it was used for Alzheimers patients, supposedly effectively. Which was based on using cerebrosene, not cerebrolysin, I don't even know if their activity is the same. I don't doubt Cerebrolysin is effective for some people and never tried.

Hmm, interesting. I wouldn't expect an oral peptide matrix to illicit an effect akin to IM cerebrolysin activity. My question is; what the hell is cerebrosene? Just cerebrolysin taken orally? CRB has a 10 peptide matrix in approximated ratios but exactly extracted a certain way from porcine brain from the patent holder Ebewe. Maybe cerebrosene is just those 2000ml bags of cerebrolysin administered orally.

Synapse won't say, but patents in the US are public domain no matter what their status (unless you've enamored DARPA with your patent) and we can derive the exact info on cerebrosene through that. I'm not going to invade his privacy and release any info when he wants it kept secret, but I also want the public users to be informed, too, so I gave the way to find out, and I will look the other way else wise. I'm telling you though, the longer peptides WILL get cleaved by the liver or bloodstream before BBB unless Synapse pulled an Einstein and directed enantiomer substitutions for the cleaved.

If it works for you, gopher it, otterwise choose otter options.

There was a study on alzheimers patients with authentic cerebrolysin given orally producing some results, although it is unclear what results and if they are the same as IM cerebrolysin. I could only get the abstract so do not know many details (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10961443 for abstract), and as only one study it is not very convincing or informative.

There are complicated ways other than what you mentioned for delivery of peptides orally but looking at the capsule (it is transparent) it appears to be pure peptide powder. The way you mentioned may not require Einstein though, and if it works seems possible. So it seems at best cerebrosene is a cerebrolysin copy with a poor delivery system and at worst it is some other peptide with unknown effectiveness + a bad peptide delivery system. Appears like a dishonest sales approach but I guess I knew that risk from the beginning anyway, so I am planning to try the IM authentic form.

[Guacamolium]

Eh, it could be a number of things, but if it works, then I can't knock him. I don't know the peptide matrix, and although I believe I can precisely find it out, I won't bother because I'm not needle-shy (anymore) and cerebrolysin did wonders for me. Wish Cortexin wasn't 140 dollars or whatever ridiculous price it is, that one seems like the alpha-nootropic to me. Don't know though....

[synapse]

I am in the process of working on the patent for using cerebrosene as a medical food. Once I get some of the initial paperwork in, I will feel a bit more comfortable talking about it in greater detail.

[Guacamolium]

I am in the process of working on the patent for using cerebrosene as a medical food. Once I get some of the initial paperwork in, I will feel a bit more comfortable talking about it in greater detail.

Sweet deal man, and let's hope the bureaucracy doesn't take forever like they sometimes do. =)

Do you take it personally? If so, what's it like?