10 replies to this topic

[Solitude]

You know the spiel; 'we spend a third of our lives sleeping, so it is bizarre that there is so little research on natural sleeping positions'.
There is an abundance of research on sleeping positions in general, but it all carries the assumption that we all must sleep on a mattress, usually with a pillow.

It has bees suggested, for example, that a prone sleeping position should be avoided at all costs because it causes an exaggerated arch of the lumbar spine. Well, of course it does if you're sleeping on a big, cushy mattress, allowing your heavy pelvic area to sink down. What if you eliminate the mattress? Unfortunately, I was unable to find any applicable and comprehensive research on this topic

The one piece of literature - though of questionable quality - I was able to find on instinctive sleeping positions is this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1119282/

It advocates sleeping on one's front (or side) with no mattress, no pillow and usually pron with the head turned to one side, supported by the hands or ground. Unfortunately, this one study does not provide enough material to make any valid conclusions. In the prone position examples, pressure to the masseter or mandible could promote bruxism and TMJ, while interfering with the natural swallowing response. (I'll try to find the articles on request) Pressure to the maxilla, I speculate, could cause sinus problems, and pressure around temple area may cause pressure on the eyeball - the ramifications of which I do not know. Furthermore, it could be reasonably speculated that having one's head turned to the side for an entire night could cause excessive stress on the cervical spine.

There are, then, two questions: what is, generally speaking the healthiest sleeping position? And, how, and where, did paleolithic humans sleep?

[e Volution]

Yeh I created a thread about this a few months back here. Didn't generate much interest though...

I think sleep in general-not just sleeping positions-doesn't get nearly enough attention on this forum. I think its very plausible many members here (I would include myself in this category) could potentially be doing more damage or decreasing of longevity from improper sleep patterns than the benefit of all their supplementation combined.

On the paleo forums I have heard a few success stories of people who have ditched the bed (and sometimes pillow) in favour of a soft padding on the ground. I am eager to experiment with this myself, I am just waiting till the end of the university semester as I envision a fair amount of disrupted sleep when experimenting with this idea! In the meantime I am trying to sleep on my side or back and avoiding my previous preferred sleeping position of flat on my stomach with my head turned to the left.

[Annan]

I'm very interested in this subject!

Though I don't have a lot to contribute to the discussion unfortunately.

Sometimes when I'm very tired I lie down on the carpet for a nap instead of going to bed, though I use a pillow. A habit left over from when I attempted polyphasic sleeping.

When I sleep in bed I try to sleep on my back as I have heard that this is better. Previously I always slept on my front.

[PerfectSeek]

I am also interested in this topic. I have heard that sleeping on your side is better for your spine, and also reduces the impact of sleep apnea. However, I don't know of any scientific research to back this up.

[Solitude]

While there are studies that show sleep apnea is alleviated by a lateral position, the ones I looked at were all presumably carried out on a normal mattress. The distribution of weight is much different without a mattress, and could, conceivably influence (positively or negatively, I do not know) ease the sympathetic mechanisms of breathing.

Yeh I created a thread about this a few months back here. Didn't generate much interest though...

I think sleep in general-not just sleeping positions-doesn't get nearly enough attention on this forum. I think its very plausible many members here (I would include myself in this category) could potentially be doing more damage or decreasing of longevity from improper sleep patterns than the benefit of all their supplementation combined.

On the paleo forums I have heard a few success stories of people who have ditched the bed (and sometimes pillow) in favour of a soft padding on the ground. I am eager to experiment with this myself, I am just waiting till the end of the university semester as I envision a fair amount of disrupted sleep when experimenting with this idea! In the meantime I am trying to sleep on my side or back and avoiding my previous preferred sleeping position of flat on my stomach with my head turned to the left.

Ah, that thread is where I came across the article, actually. Thank you.

From a strictly anecdotal standpoint, I support the idea of ditching a mattress and pillow. Right now, I sleep supine with an inch of memory foam and no pillow. The benefits aren't enormous, but significant; it has successfully eliminated the shoulder problems that I've had for most of my life, and I think I would hate using a mattress now. Sleeping is a little more refreshing, and I find that during the day, my neck is naturally more inclined to keep good posture as well. Just a few nights ago, I tried sleeping on the bare carpet which, surprisingly, went quite well. However, attempts at lateral and prone positions have all met with failure. I think if one is to sleep in the prone position, you have to do it without any cushioning, otherwise, I find that the mattress/foam smushes up against your face and eyes, or gets in the way of breathing.

I'm very interested in this subject!

Though I don't have a lot to contribute to the discussion unfortunately.

Sometimes when I'm very tired I lie down on the carpet for a nap instead of going to bed, though I use a pillow. A habit left over from when I attempted polyphasic sleeping.

When I sleep in bed I try to sleep on my back as I have heard that this is better. Previously I always slept on my front.

Did you sleep on your front when you were on the carpet with a pillow?

Edited by Solitude, 06 May 2010 - 10:59 PM.

[ken_akiba]

My bed is motorized adjustable one, like the ones you find in hospitals. Not always but many a time adjusting torso and head in raised angle gives me better rest. For some reason. I like very firm bed (but not floor-hard) and for pillows too, I cannot tolerate soft ones.

Edit: There are prone-pillows that allow sleeping facing down. Looks like toilet seat :O I have tried it but didn't work for me.

Edited by ken_akiba, 06 May 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[maxwatt]

I was recently in China for several weeks, and all the beds in the hotels and the private homes I saw had rock hard mattresses. Well, not rock hard except in comparison to an American mattress; there was a very think layer of cotton batting on top of the rock, maybe a quarter inch at most.

I slept on the side positions recommended in the book, except using a pillow instead of my elbow, or on my back. No aches and pains, no morning stiffness. It was actually very comfortable.

[Annan]

Did you sleep on your front when you were on the carpet with a pillow?

I've managed to sleep on my back on the carpet but normally I sleep on my front with the pillow under my upper chest and head. My left hand is under the pillow laying directly under my face (which is turned left).

Idea: Since some (all?) asian countries seem to use thin mattresses it may be an idea to look in that direction.

Edited by Annan, 09 May 2010 - 11:47 PM.

[e Volution]

Can anyone with children weigh in on this? Have you noticed any 'instinctive' sleeping behaviour?

Apparently most (if not all) young humans have perfect body posture and movement, like perfect body-form when picking up heavy objects, rolling around/getting up and down off the ground, etc. I would assume this also extends to sleeping positions... Someone here please force your kid to sleep on the hard ground tonight and report back with how they did it (I can't go watch children sleep I might get arrested)

[maxwatt]

Can anyone with children weigh in on this? Have you noticed any 'instinctive' sleeping behaviour?

Apparently most (if not all) young humans have perfect body posture and movement, like perfect body-form when picking up heavy objects, rolling around/getting up and down off the ground, etc. I would assume this also extends to sleeping positions... Someone here please force your kid to sleep on the hard ground tonight and report back with how they did it (I can't go watch children sleep I might get arrested)

Infants cannot roll over for maybe three months, they stay whatever way you put them, except on their sides, then they fall over. Their limb, head and torso proportions are quite different than an adult's, and again different from a toddler, a five-year old, or a pre-adolescent. Their skeletons are incompletely formed, and much of it is more like flexible cartilage than like bone. As they get older, some kids sleep on their backs, some on their stomachs, some roll around all night both axially and coronally, and some sleep on their backs with one leg dawn up and the the other crossed over it. Sometimes one arm is bent with the thumb placed in the mouth, sometimes not.

Sudden infant death syndrome is more common with the on-stomach position, I've read.

[Sillewater]

100 Years Before Weston Price

Take a look at this article. A part of it discusses sleeping position/breathing in infants.