25 replies to this topic

[Lost Soul]

I was getting this weird electrical charge sensation in my leg where I felt like I constantly had to walk around. I was also getting this weird tightness in my neck and these weird feelings seemed to move from one part of the body to another. I stopped Piracetam, 5htp, and adderall. Re introduced each, and it starts after I take the 5htp. Why is 5htp causing this weirdness? Sometimes my hands shake and everything

[jazzcat]

I was getting this weird electrical charge sensation in my leg where I felt like I constantly had to walk around. I was also getting this weird tightness in my neck and these weird feelings seemed to move from one part of the body to another. I stopped Piracetam, 5htp, and adderall. Re introduced each, and it starts after I take the 5htp. Why is 5htp causing this weirdness? Sometimes my hands shake and everything

hand tremors could be about low dopamine. I'm not sure if you might experiencing something like restless leg syndrome also associated with low DA.

I'm not sure about tightness in your neck.

Do you feel you need to increase 5HT and not DA?

[Lost Soul]

I was getting this weird electrical charge sensation in my leg where I felt like I constantly had to walk around. I was also getting this weird tightness in my neck and these weird feelings seemed to move from one part of the body to another. I stopped Piracetam, 5htp, and adderall. Re introduced each, and it starts after I take the 5htp. Why is 5htp causing this weirdness? Sometimes my hands shake and everything

hand tremors could be about low dopamine. I'm not sure if you might experiencing something like restless leg syndrome also associated with low DA.

I'm not sure about tightness in your neck.

Do you feel you need to increase 5HT and not DA?

I read a hypothesis somewhere that when one is increased the other decreases. Could the increase of 5ht be causing DA to decrease too much? I think it definitely helps my mood and flow of thought, this side effect is just annoying.. It is not there when I stop taking 5htp. I definitely have low DA, just because I've been pretty anhedonic after coming off antidepressants, but 5htp seems to help with this.

Edited by Lost Soul, 07 May 2010 - 06:43 AM.

[kbal]

Yes it is the restless leg syndrome! I'm on 50mg 5-HTP experiencing the same symptoms, but i had it before (just much less). It's OK if I don't think about it, so thanks pal for reminding me /sarcasm off.

Edited by kbal, 07 May 2010 - 07:01 AM.

[Lost Soul]

Yes it is the restless leg syndrome! I'm on 50mg 5-HTP experiencing the same symptoms, but i had it before (just much less). It's OK if I don't think about it, so thanks pal for reminding me /sarcasm off.

So 5htp is causing this? Anyway to mitigate it?

[ken_akiba]

How is heart rate? It could be Serotonin syndrome.
Edit: Actually 5htp is supposed to alleviate restless leg syndrome.

Edited by ken_akiba, 07 May 2010 - 08:40 AM.

[kbal]

How is heart rate? It could be Serotonin syndrome.
Edit: Actually 5htp is supposed to alleviate restless leg syndrome.

Actually my heart was bumping so much that I couldn't lay on my left side, feels like pinching. I have to take 5-HTP in the morning, otherwise have trouble falling a sleep. (Had these symptoms appear before on no pills, my hearth is OK).
I take 6mg fish oil, gingko, DMAE, ALCAR, B complex... Exercising quite regularly for past 10 years.

[kbal]

Holly Molly,
after checking wiki on Serotonin syndrome, well it describes me well. High blood pressure (up to 200/80) for no apparent reason, I always feel hot, minor twitching, tremors, agitation.
But I never have headaches, mental confusion.

I had this from childhood.

Could this be in any way associated on my 'immunity' to speed (sleep better after use), cocaine, ephedrine (after 300mg I felt nothing). I do not take these drugs regularly, just some times because no body would believe me that they don't work on me.
Sleep poor to, benzos don't do anything, except that i feel 'fresh' in the morning.

[Lost Soul]

Holly Molly,
after checking wiki on Serotonin syndrome, well it describes me well. High blood pressure (up to 200/80) for no apparent reason, I always feel hot, minor twitching, tremors, agitation.
But I never have headaches, mental confusion.

I had this from childhood.

Could this be in any way associated on my 'immunity' to speed (sleep better after use), cocaine, ephedrine (after 300mg I felt nothing). I do not take these drugs regularly, just some times because no body would believe me that they don't work on me.
Sleep poor to, benzos don't do anything, except that i feel 'fresh' in the morning.

. whatever were experiencing it's related. adderall basically is speed, i take it and it barely works anymore. so i probably take too much. and all the serotonin syndrome stuff describes me as well. i dont know. adderall works on serotonin, i'm thinking the amount i take builit up over time and negative reacted with the 5-htp (a precursor to serotonin for those who dont know)

Edited by Lost Soul, 07 May 2010 - 10:14 AM.

[jazzcat]

You need to stop the 5HTP.

I take 5HTP at night because it helps with sleep. During the day I take DLPA (but tyrosine might also work). Those two aminos balance the two NT system.

I don't know that you should be increasing 5HT and DA if you are on anti depressants or ADD meds.

[shaggy]

How is heart rate? It could be Serotonin syndrome.
Edit: Actually 5htp is supposed to alleviate restless leg syndrome.

Can you show me some evidence that oral 5-HTP has ever caused serotonin syndrome in humans please?

I have never found a single case after plenty of looking.

Thanks a lot!

Edited by shaggy, 07 May 2010 - 12:10 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

I really doubt it's serotonin syndrome. People around here jump to conclusions like that because of a definition on wiki or something, but serotonin syndrome is something usually leads you right to the hospital.

The problem with 5HTP is that a lot of it can convert into serotonin in the gut and get into your blood, unable to cross the BBB (blood brain barrier), which can cause a number of problems. You might be especially sensitive to this. B6 is the catalyst for the conversion of 5HTP to 5HT (serotonin). Does your 5HTP have B6? If not, try taking it a half capsule on an empty stomach away from food and anything else, so there's no B6, and see if the problem continues.

[ken_akiba]

Actually symptoms of serotonin syndrome span from hardly noticible to lethal. 5-htp's potential danger to induce serotonin syndrome is great enough that in countries like Germany, 5-htp is a prescription only drug. Also in Japan, 5-htp is to be sold under 50mg per capsule dose with a clear warning of possible serotonin syndrome.

This doctor gives sound advice. he recommends 50mg a day with frequent break.
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

His view on B6:

To B6 or not to B6?
The potential benefit from taking vitamin B6 along with 5-HTP is that B6 could help 5-HTP be converted into serotonin more efficiently. This is good when it's done in the brain where we want more serotonin, but we also want to minimize the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin in the bloodstream. We want the 5-HTP to make it to the brain before being converted into serotonin. I prefer to use a 5-HTP product without B6 added, but this issue is complicated and I don't have all the answers.

[aaron_e]

magnesium usually helps me when I have serotonin excess symptoms. try soaking in a tub of hot water with 3 cups of epsom salts?

[shaggy]

Actually symptoms of serotonin syndrome span from hardly noticible to lethal. 5-htp's potential danger to induce serotonin syndrome is great enough that in countries like Germany, 5-htp is a prescription only drug. Also in Japan, 5-htp is to be sold under 50mg per capsule dose with a clear warning of possible serotonin syndrome.

This doctor gives sound advice. he recommends 50mg a day with frequent break.
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

His view on B6:

To B6 or not to B6?
The potential benefit from taking vitamin B6 along with 5-HTP is that B6 could help 5-HTP be converted into serotonin more efficiently. This is good when it's done in the brain where we want more serotonin, but we also want to minimize the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin in the bloodstream. We want the 5-HTP to make it to the brain before being converted into serotonin. I prefer to use a 5-HTP product without B6 added, but this issue is complicated and I don't have all the answers.

Right Ok, it's banned & restricted by certain Governments... Any substantial evidence please? (Besides Ray Sahelian's conjecture)

[zorba990]

This might be of interest to you:
http://www.antidepre...pinealstory.htm


I think the pineal is going to be quite critical in extending lifespan.
Finding ways to activate it naturally may be key

Actually symptoms of serotonin syndrome span from hardly noticible to lethal. 5-htp's potential danger to induce serotonin syndrome is great enough that in countries like Germany, 5-htp is a prescription only drug. Also in Japan, 5-htp is to be sold under 50mg per capsule dose with a clear warning of possible serotonin syndrome.

This doctor gives sound advice. he recommends 50mg a day with frequent break.
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

His view on B6:

To B6 or not to B6?
The potential benefit from taking vitamin B6 along with 5-HTP is that B6 could help 5-HTP be converted into serotonin more efficiently. This is good when it's done in the brain where we want more serotonin, but we also want to minimize the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin in the bloodstream. We want the 5-HTP to make it to the brain before being converted into serotonin. I prefer to use a 5-HTP product without B6 added, but this issue is complicated and I don't have all the answers.

Right Ok, it's banned & restricted by certain Governments... Any substantial evidence please? (Besides Ray Sahelian's conjecture)

[niner]

Right Ok, it's banned & restricted by certain Governments... Any substantial evidence please? (Besides Ray Sahelian's conjecture)

I don't have anything solid, just a comment- I sure hear a lot of people reporting problems with 5htp. That doesn't mean that it doesn't work great for some people, but it sure isn't some sort of mellow "take all you want, it can't hurt cuz it's natural" kind of supplements. I'm not at all surprised that it's restricted in some countries. I think you'd have a hard time getting it past the FDA if you wanted to market it as a drug.

[Lost Soul]

Lots of interesting ideas here. According to the wiki, serotonin syndrome is most probable when two different serotonin agents are administered together. Adderall + 5htp both work on serotonin and I've been taking both quite frequently.. Obviously I probably should take a break from both. And I'm wondering why all the stores in my area have taken l-tryptophan off the shelf. I live in the united states, and I use to be able to get it in any health food store. I hear it's better then 5htp because it only gives you the amount of 5ht you actuallyneed.

Edited by Lost Soul, 08 May 2010 - 03:23 AM.

[Logan]

You should probably just stop taking 5htp and try to find something that works just as well or better without the side effects. Personally, I don't trust 5htp any more than pharmaceutical antidepressants.

I think people are dillusioned by believing that 5htp is going to be some kind of replacement for antidepressants. I say, if antidepressants were working well with minimal or no side effects, get back on the antidepressants.

Edited by morganator, 08 May 2010 - 04:34 AM.

[Guacamolium]

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry for the possible redundancy, if it pertains to you:

5-HTP is turned in to the body as serotonin, which means all functional receptors (14 of them) will get slammed with agonistic action - which means you will receive ALL 14 sub-receptor agonism evenly. It's non-selective RA. Try L-tryptophan. then report back. If things are still awry, then we need to get more specific. Obviously cut the 5-HTP for perhaps L-tryptophan, or my favorite - SAM-E. There are cholingeric processes caused by your crude serotonin-getting consumption

Edited by somethingtoxic, 08 May 2010 - 05:35 AM.

[ken_akiba]

Actually symptoms of serotonin syndrome span from hardly noticible to lethal. 5-htp's potential danger to induce serotonin syndrome is great enough that in countries like Germany, 5-htp is a prescription only drug. Also in Japan, 5-htp is to be sold under 50mg per capsule dose with a clear warning of possible serotonin syndrome.

This doctor gives sound advice. he recommends 50mg a day with frequent break.
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

His view on B6:

To B6 or not to B6?
The potential benefit from taking vitamin B6 along with 5-HTP is that B6 could help 5-HTP be converted into serotonin more efficiently. This is good when it's done in the brain where we want more serotonin, but we also want to minimize the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin in the bloodstream. We want the 5-HTP to make it to the brain before being converted into serotonin. I prefer to use a 5-HTP product without B6 added, but this issue is complicated and I don't have all the answers.

Right Ok, it's banned & restricted by certain Governments... Any substantial evidence please? (Besides Ray Sahelian's conjecture)

Ray is a man of integrity, he's not a type of person who would misguide you with subjective conjectures but your intellect finds him sub par, you may always bring it up to German and Japanese FDA :-)

Edited by ken_akiba, 08 May 2010 - 06:38 PM.

[shaggy]

Actually symptoms of serotonin syndrome span from hardly noticible to lethal. 5-htp's potential danger to induce serotonin syndrome is great enough that in countries like Germany, 5-htp is a prescription only drug. Also in Japan, 5-htp is to be sold under 50mg per capsule dose with a clear warning of possible serotonin syndrome.

This doctor gives sound advice. he recommends 50mg a day with frequent break.
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

His view on B6:

To B6 or not to B6?
The potential benefit from taking vitamin B6 along with 5-HTP is that B6 could help 5-HTP be converted into serotonin more efficiently. This is good when it's done in the brain where we want more serotonin, but we also want to minimize the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin in the bloodstream. We want the 5-HTP to make it to the brain before being converted into serotonin. I prefer to use a 5-HTP product without B6 added, but this issue is complicated and I don't have all the answers.

Right Ok, it's banned & restricted by certain Governments... Any substantial evidence please? (Besides Ray Sahelian's conjecture)

Ray is a man of integrity, he's not a type of person who would misguide you with subjective conjectures but your intellect finds him sub par, you may always bring it up to German and Japanese FDA :-)

You sound as if you know this man? I have read alot of Ray Sahelian and I'm sure he is a man of integrity and I don't find him sub-par....He has admitted on 5-HTP that he doesn't have the answers, so he is also honest.

I certainly wouldn't hold any trust in any government agency regarding safety or efficacy of nutritional supplements, so no, I will not be contacting any FDA's.

I asked you for evidence of supplemental 5-HTP causing serotonin syndrome, which you have been unable to give. I personally believe excess serotonin in the blood is metabolised quickly to 5-HIAA, but I only have my own results from my endocrinologist that indicates this.

Edited by shaggy, 09 May 2010 - 01:16 PM.

[ken_akiba]

In essence, your stance is that of tobacco company. Can anyone provide indisputable evidence that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer? No, but this does not

mean circumcisional :-) no, circumstantial and anecdotal evidences should be ignored. Circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that 5-htp poses serious serotonin syndrome risk is strong as is shared by Ray and many concerned doctors and scientists, and is taken as proof beyond a reasonable doubt by some countries to implement treatment of 5-htp a prescription drug, not an over the counter supplement.

There is another serious concern for 5-htp: Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome.
Some blame impurities in 5-htp and some blame 5-htp itself, nonetheless the concern is real. In fact a couple of lawsuits transpired.

If your motivation is genuine interest in this matter, I urge you to conduct an indepth research yourself and report your findings on this forum.


http://www.eosinophi...gia.net/faq.htm

Excerpt:
Q: Are there cases of EMS from 5-HTP?
A: This is an easy and a hard question. The easy answer is YES. I've personally heard from scores of persons who have had adverse reactions to 5-HTP that sound like EMS or an EMS-like disorder. Did all of those people remain sick and develop a chronic disease as EMS has become? No. Did some? Yes. In fact, around 2002 or 2003, one person diagnosed with EMS from usage of 5-HTP was preparing to go to trial. I heard that from good sources; the person lived in Ohio. I don't know the outcome of the case. Are there others sickened? There must be, but maybe they never made the connection to 5-HTP. Maybe they didn't bother to have the 5-HTP tested for impurities. Maybe their doctors dismissed their disorder or didn't believe in 5-HTP/EMS. However, 5-HTP/EMS does exist, though I cannot say how often it has occurred. In addition, as far back as about 1980, a scientist at NIH did work on 5-HTP that showed it could produce scarring and disease sometimes. There is also one documented case in Canada of a woman who got sick with an EMS-like disorder, if not EMS, from being near 5-HTP. She didn't even ingest it. She gave it to her children who needed to take tryptophan due to a rare disorder which made it impossible for their bodies to properly produce tryptophan.

http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1999/5-6.html

Excerpt:
There is also a concern that 5-htp may induce Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome (EMS).
POSSIBLE LINK FOUND BETWEEN SUPPLEMENTS AND SERIOUS ILLNESS
Confirming Mayo Clinic research, FDA has identified impurities in certain dietary supplements that might be related to the illness eosinophilia-myalgia
syndrome (EMS). The supplements, some 5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan (5HTP) products, are being used for insomnia, depression, obesity, and, in children, attention
deficit disorder. While the significance of FDA's finding remains unknown, the agency believes vigilance towards these products is warranted. FDA is unaware
of any recent illnesses associated with 5HTP products being sold as dietary supplements; however, the widespread promotion and use of these products began
only recently.
In 1991, an impurity associated with 5HTP, called Peak X, was identified in one case of EMS. Impurities similar to Peak X also were found in L-tryptophan
that was associated with a 1989 epidemic of EMS. Also, the medical literature includes reports of 10 previous EMS cases worldwide associated with 5HTP
products. The exact cause of the 1989 and 1991 cases of EMS remains unclear.
EMS is a serious illness characterized by a rise in certain white blood cells and severe muscle pain. The national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
has identified more than 1,500 cases of EMS, including 38 deaths, associated with L-tryptophan.

FDA is working with CDC and the National Institutes of Health to monitor use of 5HTP products and is consulting with professional and patient groups. The
agency encourages the public to report serious adverse reactions to the agency's MedWatch program. To report adverse reactions, professionals and consumers
can call 1-800-FDA-1088 (1-800-332-1088). Doctors and other health-care professionals also may send the information by fax to 800-FDA-0178 (800-332-0178) or
by mail using postage paid form to FDA, HF-2, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20852-9787.

Edited by ken_akiba, 09 May 2010 - 11:33 PM.

[niner]

I certainly wouldn't hold any trust in any government agency regarding safety or efficacy of nutritional supplements, so no, I will not be contacting any FDA's.

After reading ken akiba's post about EMS above, I'd say you might want to rethink this.

[Ark]

how can you be sure it's the 5-htp?

[shaggy]

I certainly wouldn't hold any trust in any government agency regarding safety or efficacy of nutritional supplements, so no, I will not be contacting any FDA's.

After reading ken akiba's post about EMS above, I'd say you might want to rethink this.

I think not...I have been shown nothing to change my opinions, particularly on whether 5-HTP leads to serotonin syndrome. I don't find the above texts convincing about 5-HTP leading to EMS either, unless it has other impurities.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.