25 replies to this topic

[Imagination]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

[jazzcat]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what supplements that are a source of choline make you depressed but choline is a methyl donor. If you don't need methyl donors that might explain why it makes you feel depressed.

[gamesguru]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

The cholinergic system has a secondary function, that being to cause extreme reflective thought when something isn't quite right in your life. So strictly speaking, increasing acetylcholine levels in the brain (through mechanisms not fully understood) can and does subdue mood. The funny thing is that racetams (which are another novel nootropic) help enhance dopamine function through potentiation of ion channels and can therefore counteract subdued mood induced by excessive-acetylcholine-induced depression.
This is poorly understood at present, but a correlation between acetylcholine and depression exists, and piracetam/aniracetam help to bring mood back up to normal. That's all I would worry myself with, unless of course properly dosed racetams don't bring mood back to normal, then there may be another problem.

This is worth reading if you are interested on the subject: Acetylcholine and Depression

[Imagination]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what supplements that are a source of choline make you depressed but choline is a methyl donor. If you don't need methyl donors that might explain why it makes you feel depressed.

The choline sources i've tried on more than one occasion are Bitrate, Alpha GPC and Choline CDP. I guess it's more of a pissed off type depressed. DMAE on the other hand is fine.

In regards to Methyl Donors, taking Sam-e makes me feel great which is a methyl donor I think.

[tunt01]

if you get depressed from choline, have you tried choline/inositol in combination?

[Imagination]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

The cholinergic system has a secondary function, that being to cause extreme reflective thought when something isn't quite right in your life. So strictly speaking, increasing acetylcholine levels in the brain (through mechanisms not fully understood) can and does subdue mood. The funny thing is that racetams (which are another novel nootropic) help enhance dopamine function through potentiation of ion channels and can therefore counteract subdued mood induced by excessive-acetylcholine-induced depression.
This is poorly understood at present, but a correlation between acetylcholine and depression exists, and piracetam/aniracetam help to bring mood back up to normal. That's all I would worry myself with, unless of course properly dosed racetams don't bring mood back to normal, then there may be another problem.

This is worth reading if you are interested on the subject: Acetylcholine and Depression

Usefull article, thanks, I will have a read.

The racetams seem to have a negative effect when I take them, causing lethargy and brain fog, which is my main reason for adding the choline. I have both aniracetam and piractam.

Had only just bought the cdp thinking that it will be different from the others but still get the same effect. Annoying as it is pretty expensive stuff!

[Imagination]

if you get depressed from choline, have you tried choline/inositol in combination?

No have not tried this, would that counteract the depressive side of things?

[jazzcat]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what supplements that are a source of choline make you depressed but choline is a methyl donor. If you don't need methyl donors that might explain why it makes you feel depressed.

The choline sources i've tried on more than one occasion are Bitrate, Alpha GPC and Choline CDP. I guess it's more of a pissed off type depressed. DMAE on the other hand is fine.

In regards to Methyl Donors, taking Sam-e makes me feel great which is a methyl donor I think.

Why are you taking so many methyl donors?

[tunt01]

No have not tried this, would that counteract the depressive side of things?

i can't guarantee it, but inositol is common in some choline formulations and it is commonly used to treat depressive-like symptoms. just seems like a straight forward idea to me...

[Imagination]

Do you also get depressed from Huperzine A or DMAE?

I have found that I don't at all from DMAE, just trying out some Huperzine A. I think it's some other mechanics of the choline that causes the depression, not the increase in Acetylcholine, that's my theory anyway. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what supplements that are a source of choline make you depressed but choline is a methyl donor. If you don't need methyl donors that might explain why it makes you feel depressed.

The choline sources i've tried on more than one occasion are Bitrate, Alpha GPC and Choline CDP. I guess it's more of a pissed off type depressed. DMAE on the other hand is fine.

In regards to Methyl Donors, taking Sam-e makes me feel great which is a methyl donor I think.

Why are you taking so many methyl donors?

I don't take sam-e regularly, just tried it a while ago to see if it gave me an energy boost which it did, it's too expensive to take everyday. I don't think I am taking any methyl donors at all at the moment.

[chrono]

Does ALCAR also give you depression? It increases ACh through increased activity of choline acetyltransferase.

[connorphenix]

This is likely an acetylcholinergic response to increased activity on Ach ligands, which through a cascade cause dopamine to overpower serotonin binding abilities. Just a guess though, as that mechanism is possible.

[Imagination]

Does ALCAR also give you depression? It increases ACh through increased activity of choline acetyltransferase.

No Alcar doesn't give me any depression. Although it made me quite tired which is the opposite of what I was expecting it to do. Didn't really give it a fair run and could do with picking some up again and trying it out. I wasn't taking it with ALA at the time.

[PerfectSeek]

Imagination -

Did you find success with Huperzine? I have found myself sensitive to CDP-choline, often resulting in depression. I have tried Alpha GPC and it feels much 'cleaner', although I have not used it for an extended period of time.

If you are sensitive to choline I would start at a low dose of ALCAR. Personally, 1g is too stimulating for me, but .5g is perfect.

[SATANICAT]

Does ALCAR also give you depression? It increases ACh through increased activity of choline acetyltransferase.

ALCAR makes me super sensitive to anything annoying. I am like a roid-raged maniac on ALCAR, but I have very strong mental will-power. I've not read any reactions to ALCAR such as mine so I just thought I would throw that out there.

[Guacamolium]

Why did somebody come along, not like this thread, and give it 1 star? Somebody was wondering about possible depressive effects from choline, and somebody has to be rude and degrade it to 1 star. Who moderates these boards anyways? Go 1 star yourselves for such stupidity.

[Imagination]

Imagination -

Did you find success with Huperzine? I have found myself sensitive to CDP-choline, often resulting in depression. I have tried Alpha GPC and it feels much 'cleaner', although I have not used it for an extended period of time.

If you are sensitive to choline I would start at a low dose of ALCAR. Personally, 1g is too stimulating for me, but .5g is perfect.

Yes the huperzine a is fine at the moment, currently supplementing 100mg x2 a day. No signs of depression whatsoever and it seems to work pretty well as a nootropic. I've actually stopped the DMAE for the time being too, it never actually made me depressed but don't want too much acetylcholine building up.

I haven't really throughly tested Alpha GPC as much as CDP and bitartrate, I only got 3 caps as a sample of GPC, was definately no were near as bad as the others, infact I can't remember feeling depressed of it at all, but didn't try it for long periods of time. It is just too expensive to waste buying 60 caps to try out too find I get the same effects again and I can't find the samples again which only sold 3 caps for really cheap.

Yeah want to try ALCAR again, do you recommend taking it with ALA? I didn't last time I took it so think that's why I felt tired from it. (one thing I noticed when taking ALCAR was my eyesight went a lot better, is this something it would do?)

[Imagination]

Why did somebody come along, not like this thread, and give it 1 star? Somebody was wondering about possible depressive effects from choline, and somebody has to be rude and degrade it to 1 star. Who moderates these boards anyways? Go 1 star yourselves for such stupidity.

Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing. See you've bumped up the stars!

[ken_akiba]

pissed off type depressed... do you possibly mean 'edgy' ? If so, it's a common effect. If not, pardon me :-)

Edited by ken_akiba, 11 May 2010 - 10:46 PM.

[Imagination]

pissed off type depressed... do you possibly mean 'edgy' ? If so, it's a common effect. If not, pardon me :-)

It's difficult to describe, sort of go through periods of being very pissed off and, well yeah I suppose, edgy. Snaped at some people that I never normally would. Feel frustrated at nothing, and depressed at nothing also. Do not get this with DMAE, and so far, not from huperzine A either.

[ken_akiba]

Oh well then nothing wrong with you. Choline does that. Just reduce dosage.

[Imagination]

Oh well then nothing wrong with you. Choline does that. Just reduce dosage.

Thats good to know, I may try it again and reduce the dosage, what is a good dosage to take?

I got this of only 250mg of cdp which was quite pronounced, I thought that was a pretty low dosage as I see people mentioning they are taking grams of the stuff.

[ken_akiba]

Hmm.. Hard to tell. Every1 reacts differently. 250mg does seem low to warrant such reaction. Maybe you were taking other cognitive enhancing supplement(s) at the same time?

[Imagination]

Hmm.. Hard to tell. Every1 reacts differently. 250mg does seem low to warrant such reaction. Maybe you were taking other cognitive enhancing supplement(s) at the same time?

Maybe, I might have been taking the DAME also, can't really remember, tonight I just took 250mg of cdp and seems to have gone down ok, I shall keep it at this limit for now and see how it goes with no other acetylcholine acting supplements, (I skipped the huperzine today)

I also took some tyrosine with it so it may of counteracted the depressive effects.

[outsider]

Does ALCAR also give you depression? It increases ACh through increased activity of choline acetyltransferase.

ALCAR makes me super sensitive to anything annoying. I am like a roid-raged maniac on ALCAR, but I have very strong mental will-power. I've not read any reactions to ALCAR such as mine so I just thought I would throw that out there.

Same here. I suspect it has something to do with the dopamine and/or acetylcholine systems.

[NDM]

Does ALCAR also give you depression? It increases ACh through increased activity of choline acetyltransferase.

ALCAR makes me super sensitive to anything annoying. I am like a roid-raged maniac on ALCAR, but I have very strong mental will-power. I've not read any reactions to ALCAR such as mine so I just thought I would throw that out there.

Same here. I suspect it has something to do with the dopamine and/or acetylcholine systems.

I may have a mild version of the same...hmm. If we define an abstract concept of aggression, and assume that ALCAR boosts it, then will-power would be the beneficial arm of enhanced aggression (as in focusing and sublimating one's aggression to achieve goals by "destroying" obstacles in the way to them) and irritability (as unnecessary annoyance with irrelevant fluff) would be its detrimental arm...two sides of the same coin.

Do we know supplements that specifically reduce irritability, without at the same time compromising will-power?

Edited by NDM, 14 May 2010 - 01:56 PM.