21 replies to this topic

[Rain]

Hi,

With Ritalin 10mg, how does one increase the length of the effects? So instead of feeling it for 3-4 hours, feeling it for 6+ even?
Would any of these do such a thing; Piracetam with Choline, L-Tyrosine or NALT, Vitamin B&C Complexes, Fish Oil, SAM-e, or any easy to obtain things that aren't too harmful?

Thanks!

(I'll only be taking ritalin very rarely so just wanting to know for these occasions)

Rain

[Guacamolium]

Hi,

With Ritalin 10mg, how does one increase the length of the effects? So instead of feeling it for 3-4 hours, feeling it for 6+ even?
Would any of these do such a thing; Piracetam with Choline, L-Tyrosine or NALT, Vitamin B&C Complexes, Fish Oil, SAM-e, or any easy to obtain things that aren't too harmful?

Thanks!

(I'll only be taking ritalin very rarely so just wanting to know for these occasions)

Rain

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

Here's my thread - http://www.imminst.o...o...=40366&st=0

Hopefully my trials give you insight into your questions. Haven't tried another MPH stack attempt for over a week now, I probably should though...

Okay, so if you're going for extended release, you have to up the dose and somehow slow the absorption into your system. I have no idea how to do that DIY style really. Maybe slice a Fish oil caplet, insert 30mgs of MPH evenly as a crude crushed powder, and use the spilled fish oil as a glue to hold soluble fiber (cheap, and found at every grocery store) that is sprinkled around the gelcap in layers. Resulting in a crappy sort of arts and crafts meets biochemistry experiment. Just don't try to origami a swan and take the 30mg in it, because I heard that killed a man.

If anyone has a better sort of DIY way of doing what OP asks of, then sails ahoy! Much of my extension methods were covered in the topic provided above. If we can figure out how to break the 5 hour barrier DIY style with 10mg - I would be happy. 3 hours sometimes just isn't enough and redosing sucks because MPH drains the fuck out of your DA and NE the first round.

Edited by somethingtoxic, 18 May 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[Rain]

Thanks!

I'm having a read now, i saw you posted

'10mg Ritalin
300mg NALT'
As a combo, was this good? Did it extended the effects or only slightly enhance it?

oh and would L-Tyrosine with ritalin possibly be better, or should i stick with trying NALT first?

Edited by Rain, 18 May 2010 - 02:26 PM.

[Sebastian]

Where can one buy Ritalin?

[Animal]

Be careful combining Ritalin with a SAM-e dose above 200mgs, I've seen that combination taken in excess induce severe hypomania for 16hrs, the comedown was also horrific apparently.

[Guacamolium]

Thanks!

I'm having a read now, i saw you posted

'10mg Ritalin
300mg NALT'
As a combo, was this good? Did it extended the effects or only slightly enhance it?

oh and would L-Tyrosine with ritalin possibly be better, or should i stick with trying NALT first?

Just take whichever - they both do the same thing, though I prefer NALT because of the cost/benefit ratio. DMAA will tie up the NAT receptor if you time things right. That was all covered in the thread I linked you in case some of the lurkers are lazy.

[VoidPointer]

DMAE has seemed to work well in conjunction with MPH or DexMPH. I do not know about extending the duration of effect though. If you really want a long lasting MPH take Concerta, which (for me) lasts up to 13 hours.

[meursault]

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

I have not seen any evidence for large doses of b-vitamins to be necessary for optimal cognitive functioning. Preliminary studies in mice show that supplementation of nicotinamide might reduce spatial learning ability. There are studies that suggest B-12 supplementation might be a great precautionary measure. However it is unknown whether or not supplementing these types of nutrients are beneficial for cognitive function, even with regard to neurodegenerative disorders. It appears that obtaining RDA levels through diet should suffice. What are your thoughts, somethingtoxic?

[Heisenberg]

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

I have not seen any evidence for large doses of b-vitamins to be necessary for optimal cognitive functioning. Preliminary studies in mice show that supplementation of nicotinamide might reduce spatial learning ability. There are studies that suggest B-12 supplementation might be a great precautionary measure. However it is unknown whether or not supplementing these types of nutrients are beneficial for cognitive function, even with regard to neurodegenerative disorders. It appears that obtaining RDA levels through diet should suffice. What are your thoughts, somethingtoxic?

Sometimes I take a quarter of a 10mg Ritalin pill (2.5mg) around 4 PM, which seems to work wonders. I do not believe this would tax the brain as much as a whole second dose.

Supplementing with B-complex has helped me potentiate the effects, as well as L-Tyrosin (750mg twice daily), and a low dose of caffeine (10 mg).

[stablemind]

Be careful combining Ritalin with a SAM-e dose above 200mgs, I've seen that combination taken in excess induce severe hypomania for 16hrs, the comedown was also horrific apparently.

is there a scientific explanation to this? My phychiatrist says there aren't any drug interactions with sam-e but i guess she's just ignorant.

[Rain]

Thanks!

I'm having a read now, i saw you posted

'10mg Ritalin
300mg NALT'
As a combo, was this good? Did it extended the effects or only slightly enhance it?

oh and would L-Tyrosine with ritalin possibly be better, or should i stick with trying NALT first?

Just take whichever - they both do the same thing, though I prefer NALT because of the cost/benefit ratio. DMAA will tie up the NAT receptor if you time things right. That was all covered in the thread I linked you in case some of the lurkers are lazy.

thanks for replies all & somethingtoxic- if i took the NALT 1-2 hrs after having ritalin, would this be pointless in extending as i should only have NALT before.. or?

[Guacamolium]

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

I have not seen any evidence for large doses of b-vitamins to be necessary for optimal cognitive functioning. Preliminary studies in mice show that supplementation of nicotinamide might reduce spatial learning ability. There are studies that suggest B-12 supplementation might be a great precautionary measure. However it is unknown whether or not supplementing these types of nutrients are beneficial for cognitive function, even with regard to neurodegenerative disorders. It appears that obtaining RDA levels through diet should suffice. What are your thoughts, somethingtoxic?

My thoughts are: I like your opinion on my statement, and will consider it further - and - nicotinamide!? Take niacin, xanthinol nicotinate, or inositol hexaniacinate. There is another form too, can't remember. With B-12 I take sublingual of methylcoba, so....why you always gotta be confrontational with me, brother? I take a B-complex based on pubmed studies of supplementation of them, like 800mcg of folic acid per day shown to produce vigilance, look it up. I do warn against high B-6 intake, as it has a detrimental notoriety even when my mother was a molecular biologist at UT in 1967. BTW if you search pubmed for B-12 and Folic in higher doses 600/800mcg, you might find that actually, they might actually benefit cognition. I cited both in 2009, I'm not going to repeat myself in citation just because you didn't get the memo. Happy hunting!!!

[Guacamolium]

Thanks!

I'm having a read now, i saw you posted

'10mg Ritalin
300mg NALT'
As a combo, was this good? Did it extended the effects or only slightly enhance it?

oh and would L-Tyrosine with ritalin possibly be better, or should i stick with trying NALT first?

Just take whichever - they both do the same thing, though I prefer NALT because of the cost/benefit ratio. DMAA will tie up the NAT receptor if you time things right. That was all covered in the thread I linked you in case some of the lurkers are lazy.

thanks for replies all & somethingtoxic- if i took the NALT 1-2 hrs after having ritalin, would this be pointless in extending as i should only have NALT before.. or?

Well, that's a good question as - I hadn't thought to take a high dose NALT after the MPH climax. (1.5 hours for me) My construction of my stacks were based on loading with dopa and norep in the vesicles first, and trapping them outside of the vesicles in the synapse gap because of MPH and DMAA taken later, but to re-up, I guess it's worth a try. I honestly feel emotionally spent after those stacks I took.

BTW for some reason (KISS?) 10mg MPH plus 25mg ephedrine was the best, plus a baby aspirin for circulatory relief..

I'm with you on this same topic bro, but I haven't tried another MPH pre-designed stack in over a week, and I have most nootropics on hand - last suggestion was L-theanine to force MPH into alpha waves - haven't tried that one yet.

[meursault]

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

I have not seen any evidence for large doses of b-vitamins to be necessary for optimal cognitive functioning. Preliminary studies in mice show that supplementation of nicotinamide might reduce spatial learning ability. There are studies that suggest B-12 supplementation might be a great precautionary measure. However it is unknown whether or not supplementing these types of nutrients are beneficial for cognitive function, even with regard to neurodegenerative disorders. It appears that obtaining RDA levels through diet should suffice. What are your thoughts, somethingtoxic?

My thoughts are: I like your opinion on my statement, and will consider it further - and - nicotinamide!? Take niacin, xanthinol nicotinate, or inositol hexaniacinate. There is another form too, can't remember. With B-12 I take sublingual of methylcoba, so....why you always gotta be confrontational with me, brother? I take a B-complex based on pubmed studies of supplementation of them, like 800mcg of folic acid per day shown to produce vigilance, look it up. I do warn against high B-6 intake, as it has a detrimental notoriety even when my mother was a molecular biologist at UT in 1967. BTW if you search pubmed for B-12 and Folic in higher doses 600/800mcg, you might find that actually, they might actually benefit cognition. I cited both in 2009, I'm not going to repeat myself in citation just because you didn't get the memo. Happy hunting!!!

I am challenging your claim because I have not seen sufficient evidence for it. As to this happening always? I think the last time I requested evidence from you it was because I wanted to be certain that supplementing b-alanine was safe in regards to endogenous histidine concentrations, not for the purpose of defaming or harassing you. I'm interested in cognitive enhancement as you are.

As to B-12 and Folic acid:
In this 2003 study, "There was no beneficial effect of 750 mcg of folic acid per day on measures of cognition or mood in older healthy women. In patients with mild to moderate cognitive decline and different forms of dementia there was no benefit from folic acid on measures of cognition or mood." Also, "Folic acid effect and people with mild to moderate cognitive decline or dementia: there were no statistically significant results in favour of folic acid with or without vitamin B12 on any measures of cognitive function."

Finally, this 2008 study proved that "The small number of studies which have been done provide no consistent evidence either way that folic acid, with or without vitamin B12, has a beneficial effect on cognitive function of unselected healthy or cognitively impaired older people."

In another 2003 study about Vitamin B12., "Evidence of any efficacy of vitamin B12 in improving the cognitive function of people with dementia and low serum B12 levels is insufficient."

Edited by czukles, 19 May 2010 - 12:46 PM.

[Guacamolium]

You should be taking a B complex and fish oil everyday anyway. That's the basic foundation for any CEing stack.

I have not seen any evidence for large doses of b-vitamins to be necessary for optimal cognitive functioning. Preliminary studies in mice show that supplementation of nicotinamide might reduce spatial learning ability. There are studies that suggest B-12 supplementation might be a great precautionary measure. However it is unknown whether or not supplementing these types of nutrients are beneficial for cognitive function, even with regard to neurodegenerative disorders. It appears that obtaining RDA levels through diet should suffice. What are your thoughts, somethingtoxic?

My thoughts are: I like your opinion on my statement, and will consider it further - and - nicotinamide!? Take niacin, xanthinol nicotinate, or inositol hexaniacinate. There is another form too, can't remember. With B-12 I take sublingual of methylcoba, so....why you always gotta be confrontational with me, brother? I take a B-complex based on pubmed studies of supplementation of them, like 800mcg of folic acid per day shown to produce vigilance, look it up. I do warn against high B-6 intake, as it has a detrimental notoriety even when my mother was a molecular biologist at UT in 1967. BTW if you search pubmed for B-12 and Folic in higher doses 600/800mcg, you might find that actually, they might actually benefit cognition. I cited both in 2009, I'm not going to repeat myself in citation just because you didn't get the memo. Happy hunting!!!

I am challenging your claim because I have not seen sufficient evidence for it. As to this happening always? I think the last time I requested evidence from you it was because I wanted to be certain that supplementing b-alanine was safe in regards to endogenous histidine concentrations, not for the purpose of defaming or harassing you. I'm interested in cognitive enhancement as you are.

As to B-12 and Folic acid:
In this 2003 study, "There was no beneficial effect of 750 mcg of folic acid per day on measures of cognition or mood in older healthy women. In patients with mild to moderate cognitive decline and different forms of dementia there was no benefit from folic acid on measures of cognition or mood." Also, "Folic acid effect and people with mild to moderate cognitive decline or dementia: there were no statistically significant results in favour of folic acid with or without vitamin B12 on any measures of cognitive function."

Finally, this 2008 study proved that "The small number of studies which have been done provide no consistent evidence either way that folic acid, with or without vitamin B12, has a beneficial effect on cognitive function of unselected healthy or cognitively impaired older people."

In another 2003 study about Vitamin B12., "Evidence of any efficacy of vitamin B12 in improving the cognitive function of people with dementia and low serum B12 levels is insufficient."

You're challenging my claim of taking a B-complex everyday as part of a foundation for cognition support, correct, because that's what I originally stated? We gotta synchronize and be precise here about the exact claim you're perceiving from my original statement above that you originally "challenged" me to. Then I can start grabbing the abstracts for you, even though I've cited this EXACT same thing in 2009 if you use the search engine.

[meursault]

You're challenging my claim of taking a B-complex everyday as part of a foundation for cognition support, correct, because that's what I originally stated? We gotta synchronize and be precise here about the exact claim you're perceiving from my original statement above that you originally "challenged" me to. Then I can start grabbing the abstracts for you, even though I've cited this EXACT same thing in 2009 if you use the search engine.

I'm challenging your claim that a B complex is crucial/necessary. In my previous post, I included several studies that refute the idea of dosing b-vitamins beyond dietary requirements. None of them demonstrate any improved cognitive abilities among the subjects. I would be surprised if you are to refute all or most of the studies I have cited so far.

Here is also another review showing how high levels of supplemental folic acid is dangerous.

This review is of the concern for high risks of cancer associated with high folic acid intake.

Edited by chrono, 08 September 2010 - 10:56 PM.
fixed quote

[Guacamolium]

You're challenging my claim of taking a B-complex everyday as part of a foundation for cognition support, correct, because that's what I originally stated? We gotta synchronize and be precise here about the exact claim you're perceiving from my original statement above that you originally "challenged" me to. Then I can start grabbing the abstracts for you, even though I've cited this EXACT same thing in 2009 if you use the search engine.

I'm challenging your claim that a B complex is crucial/necessary. In my previous post, I included several studies that refute the idea of dosing b-vitamins beyond dietary requirements. None of them demonstrate any improved cognitive abilities among the subjects. I would be surprised if you are to refute all or most of the studies I have cited so far.

Here is also another review showing how high levels of supplemental folic acid is dangerous.

This review is of the concern for high risks of cancer associated with high folic acid intake.

Oh, well you'll lose that battle my friend, unless, and I stress the unless part because something has changed with pubmed, in my research. Why is the search engine being funky? Why do I have to spend 4 times more time to get to what I used to get to immediately? Dammit Pubmed you made this hard, and possibly lengthy - I apologize for that, I have social requirements which take up time from this awesome sort of thing. Not making excuses, but can someone explain the difference? Anyways, you have your valid points, and I had mine solidified in 2009, but as time allows, I'll re-fetch everything for you, and maybe the friction I perceive between us won't be so much. Hope is always a gambit, so it's lower on the virtue scale than others. Working to retrieve your B complex levels. Please allow for the time, as it's not exactly like I'm some does-nothing individual. Thank you for your support.

BTW, just out of wonder if you're into Carnosine levels in the brain and muscles: Beta-alanine/ or carnosine, just wondering while I peruse this suddenly fucked pubmed.... I guess to bide the time, maybe just BA? Based on what I showed you? I'm just interested is all, since you challenged me on it - and maybe we can exchange workout routines too - who knows? MY myelin sheaths are in need of new stimulation.

Edited by chrono, 08 September 2010 - 10:57 PM.
fixed quote

[Logan]

Oh, well you'll lose that battle my friend, unless, and I stress the unless part because something has changed with pubmed, in my research. Why is the search engine being funky? Why do I have to spend 4 times more time to get to what I used to get to immediately? Dammit Pubmed you made this hard, and possibly lengthy - I apologize for that, I have social requirements which take up time from this awesome sort of thing. Not making excuses, but can someone explain the difference? Anyways, you have your valid points, and I had mine solidified in 2009, but as time allows, I'll re-fetch everything for you, and maybe the friction I perceive between us won't be so much. Hope is always a gambit, so it's lower on the virtue scale than others. Working to retrieve your B complex levels. Please allow for the time, as it's not exactly like I'm some does-nothing individual. Thank you for your support.

BTW, just out of wonder if you're into Carnosine levels in the brain and muscles: Beta-alanine/ or carnosine, just wondering while I peruse this suddenly fucked pubmed.... I guess to bide the time, maybe just BA? Based on what I showed you? I'm just interested is all, since you challenged me on it - and maybe we can exchange workout routines too - who knows? MY myelin sheaths are in need of new stimulation.

Are you saying that Carnosine or Beta-alanine may help with myelin? And how would you know or suspect that your myelin sheath are damaged in any way?

Edited by chrono, 08 September 2010 - 10:58 PM.
trimmed quote

[meursault]

Oh, well you'll lose that battle my friend, unless, and I stress the unless part because something has changed with pubmed, in my research. Why is the search engine being funky? Why do I have to spend 4 times more time to get to what I used to get to immediately? Dammit Pubmed you made this hard, and possibly lengthy - I apologize for that, I have social requirements which take up time from this awesome sort of thing. Not making excuses, but can someone explain the difference? Anyways, you have your valid points, and I had mine solidified in 2009, but as time allows, I'll re-fetch everything for you, and maybe the friction I perceive between us won't be so much. Hope is always a gambit, so it's lower on the virtue scale than others. Working to retrieve your B complex levels. Please allow for the time, as it's not exactly like I'm some does-nothing individual. Thank you for your support.

BTW, just out of wonder if you're into Carnosine levels in the brain and muscles: Beta-alanine/ or carnosine, just wondering while I peruse this suddenly fucked pubmed.... I guess to bide the time, maybe just BA? Based on what I showed you? I'm just interested is all, since you challenged me on it - and maybe we can exchange workout routines too - who knows? MY myelin sheaths are in need of new stimulation.

Trust me, I have no hostile or combative intent in this discussion. I originally asked you for evidence about histidine because you were confident in claiming that supplementing b-alanine does not deplete endogenous stores. I just wanted to see the evidence, as I like b-alanine, and wanted to be completely ensured of its safety.

As to this particular challenge, I have come across a lot of evidence that suggests supplementation of folic acid is potentially dangerous, and didn't want to ignore it in this thread. As for the evidence you have seen, I am interested because I have only seen one study about improved cognition by high B-1, but it was limited to a small sample of female college students. I currently supplement 1000mcg of B-12 every 2-3 days for the long-term purpose of preserving cognitive abilities.

We should probably end this discussion on this thread, as it has significantly deviated from the initial topic.

Edited by czukles, 20 May 2010 - 08:40 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Trust me, I have no hostile or combative intent in this discussion. I originally asked you for evidence about histidine because you were confident in claiming that supplementing b-alanine does not deplete endogenous stores. I just wanted to see the evidence, as I like b-alanine, and wanted to be completely ensured of its safety.

As to this particular challenge, I have come across a lot of evidence that suggests supplementation of folic acid is potentially dangerous, and didn't want to ignore it in this thread. As for the evidence you have seen, I am interested because I have only seen one study about improved cognition by high B-1, but it was limited to a small sample of female college students. I currently supplement 1000mcg of B-12 every 2-3 days for the long-term purpose of preserving cognitive abilities.

Argh, I have a lot on my plate right now, and I wanna get down to the bottom of my own B vitamin stack as well as provide the rationalization for why I take certain amounts of B-s everyday, which was based on pubmed research late 2008/early 2009 (this was when I was unaware of google scholar) and for the life of me I spent 30 minutes trying to pull up the research that I had already pulled up before, and I keep getting crap on elderly or pregnant B vitamin discrepancies that have nothing to do with our discussion. Due to time constraints, I'll have to try and find the abstracts tomorrow and hopefully it doesn't go pitifully bad like tonight. Best wishes, and you should take folic with your B-12 as they work together (hopefully that study I can pull up too, as I have utter feelings of consternation with pmed and google scholar right now)

Yeah if you want to continue through PM, that's cool with me, or whatever.

Edited by somethingtoxic, 21 May 2010 - 02:59 AM.

[Guacamolium]

Are you saying that Carnosine or Beta-alanine may help with myelin? And how would you know or suspect that your myelin sheath are damaged in any way.

Yes, carnosine, hocarnosine, and anserine help myelin. Myelin sheaths get damaged from aerobic and anaerobic concentric/contraction with muscles.

[Rain]

Offtopic Question, is Ritalin SR the same as 2x 10mg taken during the day? I assumed that SR worked by released 10mg, then releasing a second 10mg a few hours later... How does SR work then if i'm wrong. ThanksXD