36 replies to this topic

[owls]

lately i've been taking 4 pills of Kirkland brand's fish oil. so that's nearing 5g's "total fish oils" daily. is this ok? thanks!

[nameless]

If it's their regular potency brand, at 300mg Omega 3s per gel, it's probably fine. That's 1.2 grams/Omega 3 daily, which is reasonable.

Although I do wonder if taking a higher potency fish oil may be better, both for absorption of Omega 3s and oxidation reasons. Less pills = less possible oxidation?

[owls]

If it's their regular potency brand, at 300mg Omega 3s per gel, it's probably fine. That's 1.2 grams/Omega 3 daily, which is reasonable.

Although I do wonder if taking a higher potency fish oil may be better, both for absorption of Omega 3s and oxidation reasons. Less pills = less possible oxidation?

i think it's their stronger version. if there is one? it says there is 1.2g's total per pill. i'm not at home at the moment thought so i can't actually check it

[nameless]

If it's their one per day, Meg-3 version, at 1.2 grams, 684mg Omega 3s, then yeah, you may not need that much. If taking it for general health sorts of reasons, and have no major risk factors, you could be better off taking around 500mg-1 gram/Omega 3s daily.

If taking for high triglyceride levels, or other health problems causing inflammation, then the dosage could be warranted.

[owls]

If it's their one per day, Meg-3 version, at 1.2 grams, 684mg Omega 3s, then yeah, you may not need that much. If taking it for general health sorts of reasons, and have no major risk factors, you could be better off taking around 500mg-1 gram/Omega 3s daily.

If taking for high triglyceride levels, or other health problems causing inflammation, then the dosage could be warranted.

thanks. i appreciate the advice

[SATANICAT]

lately i've been taking 4 pills of Kirkland brand's fish oil. so that's nearing 5g's "total fish oils" daily. is this ok? thanks!

It's just like eating a lot of fish. It's pretty hard to go wrong with fish oil.

[Mike_N]

Another way to look at this is by analyzing your diet and finding your current intake of Omega 6 vs Omega 3.
If you keep omega 6 low then you need far less omega 3. I have basically used fish oil for years as a bandage
for the wounds excessive omega 6 has probably been giving me. My goal for the summer is to lower omega 6
alot (90+ percent of fats as olive oil, coconut oil, almonds, dark chocolate, salmon, sardines, butter, free range eggs)
and supplement with one or two fish oil caps (600mg omega 3 per cap) daily.

[MoodyBlue]

lately i've been taking 4 pills of Kirkland brand's fish oil. so that's nearing 5g's "total fish oils" daily. is this ok? thanks!

I read the book, "Omega 3 Oils" Dr. Ruden who was the director of a psychiatric institute in Maryland. Despite great objection from his colleages, he decided to try treating institutionalized patients with Omega 3 Oils rather than drugs to find out if it would be better. In one study, 7 out of 9 institutionalized patients who were treated with varying amounts of Omega 3's were able to be discharged from the institute. Some of the patients needed over 4 grams per day during treatment. I'm not sure about after the recovery period though. Dr. Rudin's work is actually responsible for the Omega 3 Oils' health benefits to become widely known, epecially for neurological function.

For optimal benefit from the EPA in fish oil, it is better to take a supplement which is very high in EPA and low in DHA at a meal separately from the times at which you take a high DHA supplement. It is known that DHA interferes with the metabolism of EPA somewhat when they are taken at the same time. DHA is more valuable for structure and EPA for function and hence mood. I use Nature's Way EFA Gold MoodAid which has an EPA to DHA ratio of 20:1. It's reasonably priced.

[health_nutty]

lately i've been taking 4 pills of Kirkland brand's fish oil. so that's nearing 5g's "total fish oils" daily. is this ok? thanks!

I read the book, "Omega 3 Oils" Dr. Ruden who was the director of a psychiatric institute in Maryland. Despite great objection from his colleages, he decided to try treating institutionalized patients with Omega 3 Oils rather than drugs to find out if it would be better. In one study, 7 out of 9 institutionalized patients who were treated with varying amounts of Omega 3's were able to be discharged from the institute. Some of the patients needed over 4 grams per day during treatment. I'm not sure about after the recovery period though. Dr. Rudin's work is actually responsible for the Omega 3 Oils' health benefits to become widely known, epecially for neurological function.

For optimal benefit from the EPA in fish oil, it is better to take a supplement which is very high in EPA and low in DHA at a meal separately from the times at which you take a high DHA supplement. It is known that DHA interferes with the metabolism of EPA somewhat when they are taken at the same time. DHA is more valuable for structure and EPA for function and hence mood. I use Nature's Way EFA Gold MoodAid which has an EPA to DHA ratio of 20:1. It's reasonably priced.

I'm assuming this is 4g of omega 3's versus 4 g of fish oil, correct?

[nameless]

For optimal benefit from the EPA in fish oil, it is better to take a supplement which is very high in EPA and low in DHA at a meal separately from the times at which you take a high DHA supplement. It is known that DHA interferes with the metabolism of EPA somewhat when they are taken at the same time. DHA is more valuable for structure and EPA for function and hence mood. I use Nature's Way EFA Gold MoodAid which has an EPA to DHA ratio of 20:1. It's reasonably priced.

I've read studies that stated DHA may interfere with EPA regarding depression, but just assumed that meant DHA taken the same day, or within several days even.

Do you have any study links where they looked at taking EPA and DHA at separate times of the day? It'd be interesting to see results from a high EPA ratio/high DHA ratio, at different times of the day and how that worked out. Perhaps it'd be a more optimal way of taking fish oils, if they do in fact interfere with each other if taken at the same exact time.

Edited by nameless, 21 May 2010 - 04:18 PM.

[MoodyBlue]

Yes, "healthy nutty", that was over 4 grams of Omega 3's. I think the balance used was the usual 1200mg EPA to 800mg DHA ratio.

"nameless", here is a study which itself claims leaves a need for more extensive studies to be done: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20439549.

An interesting study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072818

Here is a study on a heart benefit from DHA that's interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20471951

Here is a page with links to a bunch of studies: http://www.psycheduc...eds/Omega-3.htm

I can't find studies on exactly what your interested in "nameless". Because I read spmewhere once that taking DHA at the same time as EPA results in an interference of the metabolism of EPA, I decided to find a high EPA fish oil and try it. The EfaGold Mood Aid I use has a profoundly stronger effect on mood if taken at a separate meal from regular or high DHA fish oil supplements (I take two softgels in the morning which has 1020mg of EPA and 50mg of DHA). I then take one softgel of Carlson's Super DHA Gems with lunch and supper. It has a 5 to 1 ratio of DHA to EPA.

Edited by moodyblue, 22 May 2010 - 12:44 AM.

[Imagination]

I get heart palpitations from taking fish oil, took me a while to work out it was the fish oil that was causing them. Don't get any at all now that I don't take it. Not really sure which aspect of the fish oil causes it either.

[nameless]

Thanks for the study links. Although as you mentioned, those aren't really studies testing high ratio EPA & DHA taken at different times of the day. It's an interesting theory though, and sort of surprised no depression studies have tested that idea yet.

Happen to know how long EPA takes to metabolize in the body fully? If it's several hours, then that theory may be correct. If it's a couple of days, etc, then I'd guess probably not.

I would think the accumulated omega 3s in the body would counteract EPA regardless, unless DHA interferes with absorption directly.

Edited by nameless, 22 May 2010 - 05:49 PM.

[MoodyBlue]

Thanks for the study links. Although as you mentioned, those aren't really studies testing high ratio EPA & DHA taken at different times of the day. It's an interesting theory though, and sort of surprised no depression studies have tested that idea yet.

Happen to know how long EPA takes to metabolize in the body fully? If it's several hours, then that theory may be correct. If it's a couple of days, etc, then I'd guess probably not.

I would think the accumulated omega 3s in the body would counteract EPA regardless, unless DHA interferes with absorption directly.

I can only guess on this since I can find no studies on these specifics -- only marketing claims without references. I have no idea how DHA interferes with EPAs metabolism, but my guess is that if it really does, then as long as you take a high EPA supplement at a different meal than the meal or meals when you take your DHA supplement there should be a sufficient period of time for the EPA to get its metabolic functions at least mostly completed. During that time of higher EPA circulating levels most of the DHA would probably already be either a structural component of brain or retinal tissue or within the neurons being used for nerve transmission. Although there may be circulating DHA at the time(s) you take your EPA supplement, it would probably be a small amount compared with peak levels. I think taking high EPA with breakfast is the best time because waking hours are the most important for supplements which provide mood enhancement. Then maybe instead of DHA at both lunch and supper, take all of the DHA with supper so that your EPA ingestion and your DHA ingestion are about 12 hours apart (in fact I'm going to switch to that schedule). It may not be perfect, but I think its a satisfactory distance between ingesting them.

I have taken as high as about 4 grams of omega-3's per day for a while in the past just to see what kind of effect it would have. Dr. Rudin did say in his book that every person should experiment with amounts to find out what amount is optimal for them. That was too high of an amount for me. Side effects were not anything of a harmful nature. I just didn't feel right with such a high dose. Also, when I took even higher dosages of fish oil which was about 1200mg EPA to 800mg DHA ratio, I never did experience the profound effect felt when taking a high EPA supplement separately from a DHA supplement.

[elecdonia]

'Thanks for the study links. Although as you mentioned, those aren't really studies testing high ratio EPA & DHA taken at different times of the day. It's an interesting theory though, and sort of surprised no depression studies have tested that idea yet. Happen to know how long EPA takes to metabolize in the body fully? If it's several hours, then that theory may be correct. If it's a couple of days, etc, then I'd guess probably not. I would think the accumulated omega 3s in the body would counteract EPA regardless, unless DHA interferes with absorption directly.

I have taken as high as about 4 grams of omega-3's per day for a while in the past just to see what kind of effect it would have. Dr. Rudin did say in his book that every person should experiment with amounts to find out what amount is optimal for them. That was too high of an amount for me. Side effects were not anything of a harmful nature. I just didn't feel right with such a high dose. Also, when I took even higher dosages of fish oil which was about 1200mg EPA to 800mg DHA ratio, I never did experience the profound effect felt when taking a high EPA supplement separately from a DHA supplement.

There is an interesting thread on M&M from someone who claimed that fish oil CAUSED a rather bad case of depression and brain fog:

http://www.mindandmu...=opposite fish

http://www.mindandmu...p...c=37660&hl=

Edited by elecdonia, 22 May 2010 - 11:23 PM.

[niner]

lately i've been taking 4 pills of Kirkland brand's fish oil. so that's nearing 5g's "total fish oils" daily. is this ok? thanks!

It's just like eating a lot of fish. It's pretty hard to go wrong with fish oil.

Actually, it is. I'm kind of surprised that no one has pointed this out, but every substance has a level that is "too much". Fish Oil is a powerfully bioactive substance that along with its considerable upside, has some very real downsides at high doses or even at moderate doses in some people. In addition to the above-mentioned heart palpitations and depression, there is blood thinning and the worrying pro-aging effects of lipid peroxidation.

[chrwe]

I`ve experimented with 1g of fish oil daily and it has helped my depression. It`s not "omg, a wonder cure", but it has lifted up my mood a bit.

I wouldn`t take more because...well basically because I am hesitant of any overdose, no matter what it is.

[penisbreath]

is it possible for fish oil to increase anxiety and possibly disrupt sleep at the beginning of treatment? i've given up on it several times because i coulda sworn it was worsening my anxiety, though eventually conceded that that might be placebo. however i've just reintroduced it again this week (about half a gram a day), and already feel less well rested and more tired throughout the day...

[MoodyBlue]

I forgot to mention one important thing about Nature's Way EfaGold Mood Aid (with a 20 to 1 ratio of EPA to DHA). It is also enterically coated so the oils bypass the harsh acidic environment of the stomach resulting in more of it being intact for absorption in the small intestines. They claim 3 times more of the EPA in their enterically coated capsules is absorbed than the EPA in non-enterically coated capsules. So, one capsule per day would probably be enough for many people, although they might prefer the recommended 2 capsule dosage.

Also, when I was taking very high amounts of fish oil each day, it was as though I was sensing both greater benefit in some unexplainable way and some side effects at the same time.

Now, here is a fascinating article on the far superior way to get DHA and EPA, eating fish rather than taking fish oil: http://thehealthyske...h-oil-smackdown

Included in this one is instructions on the ideal way to cook your salmon: http://health.dailyn...tent/view/2672/

[MoodyBlue]

I also forgot to mention that the importance of Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA) is usually overlooked in the discussion on omega-3 fatty acids. Inclusion of it may have prevented heart palpatations when you used fish oil. See here for important info: http://www.foodprodu...ed-omega-3.aspx

I do recall that Dr. Rudin said that it is vitally important to balance ALA with EPA and DHA to get the full benefit of all of them.

[MoodyBlue]

I also forgot to mention that the importance of Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA) is usually overlooked in the discussion on omega-3 fatty acids. Inclusion of it may have prevented heart palpatations when you used fish oil. See here for important info: http://www.foodprodu...ed-omega-3.aspx

I do recall that Dr. Rudin said that it is vitally important to balance ALA with EPA and DHA to get the full benefit of all of them.

Here's something else you can do to stop heart palpitations: Take L-Taurine plus P5P for heart muscle health and elimination of palpitations.
That's from here: http://www.biblelife.org/blood.htm

[gn1tmac]

I take between 2-4 Tablespoons per day of fish oil and I love the way i feel.

[chrono]

This was recently posted to the CR list:

Letter Regarding Dietary Supplement Health Claim for Omega-3 Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
(Docket No. 91N-0103) October 31, 2000

In the 1991 proposed and 1993 final rules, FDA discussed safety concerns relating to omega-3 fatty acid intake. These safety concerns included: (1) increased bleeding times, (2) the possibility of hemorrhagic stroke, (3) oxidation of omega-3 fatty acids forming biologically active oxidation products, (4) increased levels of low density lipoproteins (LDL) cholesterol or apoproteins associated with LDL cholesterol among diabetics and hyperlipidemics, and (5) reduced glycemic control among diabetics. See 56 Fed. Reg. at 60,671; 58 Fed. Reg. at 2699, 2704-2705. FDA concluded in its 1993 final rule that there were significant unresolved safety concerns relating to intake of omega-3 fatty acids (see 58 Fed. Reg. at 2706).
...
FDA concludes that the use of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids as dietary supplements is safe and lawful under 21 C.F.R. § 101.14, provided that daily intakes of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids do not exceed 3 g/p/d from conventional food and dietary supplement sources. Further, FDA concludes that in order to help ensure that a consumer does not exceed an intake of 3 g/p/d of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids from consumption of a dietary supplement with the qualified claim, an EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acid dietary supplement bearing a qualified claim should not recommend or suggest in its labeling, or under ordinary conditions of use, a daily intake exceeding 2 grams EPA and DHA.

Omega-3 fatty acids in inflammation and autoimmune diseases.
Simopoulos AP.
The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health

When humans ingest fish or fish oil, the EPA and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from fish or fish oil lead to (1) a decreased production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) metabolites, (2) a decrease in thromboxane A2, a potent platelet aggregator and vasoconstrictor (3) a decrease in leukotriene B4 formation, an inducer of inflammation and a powerful inducer of leukocyte chemotaxis and adherence, (4) an increase in thromboxane A3, a weak platelet aggregator and a weak vasoconstrictor, (5) an increase in prostacyclin PGI3, leading to an overall increase in total prostacyclin by increasing PGI3 without a decrease in PGI2 (both PGI2 and PGI3 are active vasodilators and inhibitors of platelet aggregation) and (6) an increase in leukotriene B5, a weak inducer of inflammation and a weak chemotactic agent [10,11].

10. Weber PC, Fischer S, von Schacky C, Lorenz R, Strasser T: Dietary omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and eicosanoid formation in man. In Simopoulos AP, Kifer RR, Martin RE (eds): "Health Effects of Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids in Seafoods." Orlando: Academic Press, pp49–60,1986.

11. Lewis RA, Lee TH, Austen KF: Effects of omega-3 fatty acids on the generation of products of the 5-lipoxygenase pathway. In Simopoulos AP, Kifer RR, Martin RE (eds): "Health Effects of Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids in Seafoods." Orlando, Academic Press, pp227–238,1986.

Edited by chrono, 30 November 2011 - 08:45 PM.

[Matt79]

I take 24 of 1g capsules per day of Omega 3 fish oil, 8 per meal. So thats 25g in total.

Since the composition is is 400mg EPA and 300mg DHA per capsule.

There was a study showing no negative side effects (apart from blood thinning) up to 50g daily.

[pycnogenol]

I take 24 of 1g capsules per day of Omega 3 fish oil, 8 per meal. So thats 25g in total.

Why do you take this amount? Is it for a medical condition? And how much does cost to take this amount per day?

Edited by pycnogenol, 14 December 2010 - 03:40 PM.

[nameless]

I take 24 of 1g capsules per day of Omega 3 fish oil, 8 per meal. So thats 25g in total.

Since the composition is is 400mg EPA and 300mg DHA per capsule.

There was a study showing no negative side effects (apart from blood thinning) up to 50g daily.

Can you post a study link, if you happen to remember it?

And unless you are taking so much fish oil for an auto-immune disease, or something similar, i'd say it's way too much. Other negative consequences are oxidation and immune suppression. And at over 16 grams of EPA/DHA daily, methinks you are easily into immune suppression territory.

Edited by nameless, 14 December 2010 - 07:41 PM.

[J. Galt]

I take a large amounts of fish oil daily and have added astaxanthin to reduced oxidation.

Edited by J. Galt, 06 March 2011 - 05:58 AM.

[niner]

I take a large amounts of fish oil daily and have added astaxanthin to reduced oxidation.

Do you have any evidence that the astaxanthin will work for this purpose, or that this plan is better overall than a smaller dose of fish oil?

[ajnast4r]

chances are, as experience has taught us with many things, that when you go way beyond what could be consumed through food intake that there WILL be problems... too much fish oil is definitely going to impair immune function, wound recovery, drastically increase oxidation in the body (skot has some good posts on this), and who knows what else.

Edited by ajnast4r, 06 March 2011 - 06:47 PM.

[Destiny's Equation]

I take a large amounts of fish oil daily and have added astaxanthin to reduced oxidation.

How much astaxanthin?

I am taking the Costco brand of fish oil. Being concerned about oxidation I cut my dose from 12 pills a day to 8 pills a day, now I am moody and irritable.