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I have lead poisoning


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#1 acantelopepope

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 01:20 AM


I must keep this brief for now, but I found out yesterday that I have definite lead poisoning (3x past the reference range max for control individuals) and possible mercury poisoning as well (above the reference range but not as elevated as the lead). The test was done with DMSA as a provoking agent and urine was collected for 6 hours. Doctor's Data analyzed the sample.

The doctor who gave me the materials for the test is in another state so I will not be able to see him. I would go to see another doctor in the area experienced with heavy metal "detox" but I am leaving to work in a remote location for 2 months in a few days. I'm explaining all of this for background, but my real question is this: what protocol should I follow? And more specifically:

*I remember reading that DMSA may only provoke certain heavy metals. Does this mean that I could have unhealthy levels of something else still and not know about it?
*What are the best resources to get my hands on to learn everything about the entire topic of heavy metal "detox"? (Include relevant threads--everything!)
*How bad is the detox in terms of brain-fog, nausea, etc. "generally"? I.e. could I follow a protocol while working demanding hours regularly?

That's all for now. I'll add more and update on my decisions soon when I get a chance.

Edited by acantelopepope, 06 June 2010 - 01:21 AM.


#2 Lufega

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 02:47 AM

If you really have lead poisoning, this is bad. Not the kinda bad where you can spend a few weeks researching supplements. It's the kind of bad where I would take those results to the nearest ER and claim I have lead poisoning symptoms so they can begin treatment right away.

Try to convince them to give you IV thiamine.

Thiamine reduces tissue lead levels in rats: mechanism of interaction.
Reddy SY, Pullakhandam R, Dinesh Kumar B.

Food and Drug Toxicology Research Centre, National Institute of Nutrition (ICMR), Jamai Osmania, Hyderabad 500 604, India.

Abstract
Lead (Pb) toxicity has been a serious concern in industrialized societies because of its association with functional deficits in nervous, haematopoietic and renal systems. Several studies have shown beneficial effects of thiamine on Pb toxicity. It is speculated that Pb chelation by thiamine may be a possible mechanism. However, the exact nature of these interactions remained elusive. In the present study we have characterized the interaction of Pb with thiamine using UV-Vis as well as fluorescence spectroscopic methods and studied the effect of thiamine treatment on blood and tissue Pb levels during simultaneous or post-exposure to Pb in rat model. The spectroscopic studies revealed that Pb interacts with the pyrimidine ring of thiamine, leading to its solubilization at physiological pH. Further, thiamine reduced the Pb levels in blood, kidney and bone during both simultaneous and post-exposure Pb treatment. Interestingly, thiamine appears to prevent the accumulation of Pb in bone during simultaneous treatment. Together these results suggest that pyrimidine ring of thiamine mediates its interaction with Pb, leading to the prevention of its accumulation and/or increased clearance from tissues.


Thiamine is pretty safe to use even at high doses with no signs of toxicity. So, thiamine's away !!!!!

Edited by Lufega, 06 June 2010 - 02:52 AM.


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#3 Lufega

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 03:03 AM

Also magnesium

Decreased thiamine and magnesium levels in the potentiation of the neurotoxicity of lead in occupational lead exposure.
Anetor JI, Ajose OA, Adebiyi JA, Akingbola TS, Iyanda AA, Ebesunu MO, Babalola OO, Aadeniyi FA.

Department of Chemical Pathology, College of Medicine, University of Ibadan, Ibadan, Nigeria.

Abstract
The relationship between blood lead (Pb) and serum levels of calcium and of neural nutrients such as thiamine and magnesium (Mg) has been determined in a Nigerian population that is occupationally exposed to Pb. Forty-seven male Pb workers were recruited as test subjects and 25 males unexposed to Pb served as controls. The test subjects were classified into three groups, based on severity of exposure to Pb. Blood lead (BPb) and the serum levels of Mg, thiamine, and calcium were determined in both test subjects and controls. The mean blood Pb level was not significantly higher in Pb workers. In contrast, Mg and thiamine levels were significantly decreased (p<0.05; p<0.01, respectively). However, the calcium level was not significantly lower in test subjects than in controls. Also, there was a significant negative correlation between serum thiamine and blood Pb levels (r=-0.50; p<0.01). Furthermore, there was a significant negative correlation between serum calcium and BPb levels (r=-0.41; p<0.01). This study has shown that relatively low BPb levels can enhance Pb absorption and also potentiate Pb neurotoxicity in the presence of decreased serum thiamine and Mg levels.
PMID: 17634626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#4 Lufega

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 03:10 AM

More support for thiamine

Effect of thiamine on the excretion of subcutaneously injected lead in rats.
Ito Y, Niiya Y, Otani M, Shima S.

Abstract
The effect of thiamine on the excretion of lead in feces was investigated using rats injected subcutaneously with lead acetate and thiamine pyrophosphate. The amount of lead excreted increased with the amounts of thiamine administered, while lead concentrations in blood, liver and femur also increased. The amount of lead excreted in feces decreased, however, with administration of oxythiamine and vanadium. These results suggest that excretion of lead in feces is enhanced by thiamine and that it promotes evacuation of lead from the body.PMID: 3617095 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#5 SATANICAT

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 03:52 AM

I may sound like a broken record, but these things are supposed to be good for heavy metal chelation

ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid)
Chlorella algae
Humifulvate
Selenium
Modified Citrus Pectin (Maybe?)
Cilantro (mobilizes metals, be careful)

I don't have time to give you info on these, but I'm sure they'll help.

#6 niner

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 03:56 AM

I found out yesterday that I have definite lead poisoning (3x past the reference range max for control individuals) and possible mercury poisoning as well (above the reference range but not as elevated as the lead). The test was done with DMSA as a provoking agent and urine was collected for 6 hours. Doctor's Data analyzed the sample. [...]

That's all for now. I'll add more and update on my decisions soon when I get a chance.

I'm not familiar with the provoking agent concept-- can anyone provide a brief description? (I'm guessing that it's using a chelator to mobilize heavy metals that are otherwise tied up in various biological depots, such as bone.) How well verified is this method? Do you have any idea how you acquired your body burden of lead? Lead paint? Leaded gas? Have you been hanging out in the third world? Basically I have two questions: 1. How contaminated are you really? i.e., how does this your lead burden compare to a person who would be considered to have lead poisoning by conventional analysis? 2. Where did it come from?

I wouldn't do anything too aggressive until you know the answer to at least the first of these questions, if not both. If you start messing around with powerful IV (or even oral) chelating agents, you really might do more harm than good. You might run the risk of transferring lead from a safe biological compartment to one that is much more susceptible to damage. Moving lead from bone to brain would probably be a bad idea. I would try to stick to the science on this and not get caught up in internet heavy metal paranoia.

#7 N.T.M.

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

Cilantro (mobilizes metals, be careful)


I remember reading about that in Fantastic Voyage.

#8 unregistered_user

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 06:13 AM

How do you think you got lead and mercury poisoning? From taking supplements like piracetam that might contain heavy metals? I'm not trying to be flippant-- I'm genuinely curious as I know nothing about this matter. What are your symptoms?

Most importantly, get well!

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 08 June 2010 - 06:13 AM.

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#9 Rational Madman

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:41 AM

I must keep this brief for now, but I found out yesterday that I have definite lead poisoning (3x past the reference range max for control individuals) and possible mercury poisoning as well (above the reference range but not as elevated as the lead). The test was done with DMSA as a provoking agent and urine was collected for 6 hours. Doctor's Data analyzed the sample.

The doctor who gave me the materials for the test is in another state so I will not be able to see him. I would go to see another doctor in the area experienced with heavy metal "detox" but I am leaving to work in a remote location for 2 months in a few days. I'm explaining all of this for background, but my real question is this: what protocol should I follow? And more specifically:

*I remember reading that DMSA may only provoke certain heavy metals. Does this mean that I could have unhealthy levels of something else still and not know about it?
*What are the best resources to get my hands on to learn everything about the entire topic of heavy metal "detox"? (Include relevant threads--everything!)
*How bad is the detox in terms of brain-fog, nausea, etc. "generally"? I.e. could I follow a protocol while working demanding hours regularly?

That's all for now. I'll add more and update on my decisions soon when I get a chance.

I would say the use of alpha lipoic acid every two hours would be the best bet. However, I'm somewhat suspicious of the methodology used in this test---since it's not in accordance with the standard methodologies used for measuring toxic metals. Indeed, unless someone is able to correct me, I'm tempted to dismiss the results as meaningless, because I imagine the mobilizing effects of DMSA will likely lead to an inordinate amount of false positives, and lend credence to another dubious unifying theory of sickness. Rather than accept the face value of the results, I'm willing to wager that most of the patient population has similar levels of toxic metals, but are largely asymptomatic until exposed to chelating agents. If this was a test administered by an alternative physician, then I would be even more skeptical---since they often consider their resistance to evidence-based medicine as a badge of honor.

Without the prior administration of DMSA, what were the results of hair, urine, and blood measurements of heavy metals? Furthermore, before you get bent out of shape, I would seek out a second opinion from a specialist far removed from the la la land of alternative medicine----if that was indeed the region you recently visited.

Edited by Rol82, 08 June 2010 - 08:46 AM.


#10 acantelopepope

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 03:37 AM

Following is a rambling message about my current thoughts on my possible lead/mercury "burden/toxicity/poisoning."

I've been working in New England all summer and haven't had a chance to start a cycle or anything. I've got a copy of amalgam illness on the way but I may not receive it for awhile. I'm now wondering whether I should believe in the results of the urine test I did a few months ago or not. The ND I talked to did not give me straightforward answers about how to interpret the results in the phone conversation I had with him. I began this relationship with the ND having good confidence in his general judgment, but I'm having second thoughts due to his nebulous description of my heavy metals results.

It's almost as if I want to believe I have the mercury/lead burden, because it would explain a lot and fit with my thyroid/adrenal problems, and it's again something solid to point to and say "this is why I'm having these problems," which is always preferable to the diagnosis I was branded with prior to discovering hypothyroidism: depression. I'm wondering if it would be intelligent to try a cycle or two of Cutler's protocol with some DMSA or ALA and see if there are any detox symptoms, and then draw my own diagnosis from there. Admittedly this sounds less than scientific, but what's the harm? Talk me out of this if it's a bad idea.

The problem is that I'm not functional to an acceptable degree (and yes, I understand that "acceptable" is highly subjective, but I just "know" that I'm not functioning anywhere near what I should be.) I need about 10g/day DMAE to pass for normal mentally. Otherwise I have to hold my tongue and take much longer to consider my responses to people because there are so many gaps in my thoughts. It's like trying to read a book with death metal shaking your ear drums--you might be able to get though a couple of sentences, but mostly you struggle to get through a paragraph.

#11 Lufega

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 07:07 PM

Selection of nutrients for prevention or amelioration of lead-induced learning and memory impairment in rats.
Fan G, Feng C, Li Y, Wang C, Yan J, Li W, Feng J, Shi X, Bi Y.

Department of Occupational and Environmental Health, School of Public Health, Wuhan University, Wuhan 430071, People's Republic of China. fgq1211@yahoo.com.cn


Abstract
BACKGROUND: We carried out animal experiments based on the orthogonal design L(8)(2(7)) setting seven factors with two different levels of each and 10 groups of rats. The nutrients tested were tyrosine, glycine, methionine, taurine, ascorbic acid, thiamine and zinc. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this study was to explore the optimal combinations of nutrients for prevention or amelioration of lead-induced learning and memory impairment. METHODS: Rats were supplemented with nutrients by gavage once a day in two experiments: one was simultaneous nutrient supplementation with lead acetate administration (800 mg l(-1)) for 8 weeks (prophylactic supplementation) and the other was nutrient supplementation for 4 weeks after the cessation of 4 weeks of lead administration (remedial supplementation). Morris water maze was initiated at ninth week. Rats were terminated for assays of levels of Pb in blood, activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD) and nitric oxide synthase (NOS) in hippocampus, levels of nitric oxide (NO) in hippocampus and expressions of Ca2+/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II (CaMKII) and cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) response element-binding protein messenger RNA in hippocampus. RESULTS: Results showed that in prophylactic supplementation, methionine, taurine, zinc, ascorbic acid and glycine were the effective preventive factors for decreasing prolonged escape latency, increasing SOD and NOS activities and NO levels in the hippocampus, respectively. On the other hand, in remedial supplementation, taurine was the effective factor for reversing Pb-induced decrease in activities of SOD, NOS and levels of NO. CONCLUSIONS: In conclusion, the optimum combinations of nutrients appear to be methionine, taurine, zinc, ascorbic acid and glycine for the prevention of learning and memory impairment, while taurine and thiamine appear to be the effective factors for reversing Pb neurotoxicity.

PMID: 19357318 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Full article http://annhyg.oxford...eprint/53/4/341
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#12 aikikai

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:40 AM

Ip-6 inositol hexaphosphate for lead and mercury detox.

http://www.imminst.o...admiumironlead/

#13 Lufega

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 11:45 PM

DMSA combined with thiamin improved heavy metal chelation (at least for cadmiun) and spares important minerals

Hum Exp Toxicol. 2000 Sep;19(9):523-8.


Effect of thiamine on the cadmium-chelating capacity of thiol compounds.
Tandon SK, Prasad S.

Industrial Toxicology Research Centre, Lucknow, India.


Abstract
The influence of thiamine on the efficacy of meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), diethyldimercapto succinate (DEDMS), alpha mercapto-beta-(2-furyl) acrylic acid (MFA) and alpha-mercapto-beta-(2-thienyl) acrylic acid (MTA) to mobilize cadmium and reverse cadmium-induced biochemical alterations was investigated in cadmium-exposed rats. The thiamine coadministration enhanced the efficacy of MFA and MTA in reducing hepatic and renal burden of cadmium and that of DMSA and DEDMS in mobilizing hepatic cadmium. It also improved the efficacy of DMSA, DEDMS and MFA in reversing the cadmium-induced increase in urinary alkaline phosphatase and aspartate and alanine amino transaminases. The combined treatment with thiamine and DMSA or MFA restricted the urinary loss of zinc and that with thiamine and DEDMS reduced the loss of fecal copper, a general effect of chelation. In conclusion, the administration of thiamine during chelation therapy in cadmium poisoning may be beneficial and more effective than thiol chelating agents alone, which needs to be confirmed in humans.

PMID: 11204555 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#14 Lufega

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 06:35 AM

Effect of glycine on lead mobilization, lead-induced oxidative stress, and hepatic toxicity in rats.

Alcaraz-Contreras Y, Garza-Ocañas L, Carcaño-Díaz K, Ramírez-Gómez XS.

Source

División de Ciencias Naturales y Exactas, Departamento de Farmacia, Universidad de Guanajuato, Noria Alta s/n, 36050 Guanajuato, Gto., Mexico.

Abstract

The effectiveness of glycine in treating experimental lead intoxication was examined in rats. Male Wistar rats were exposed to 3 g/L lead acetate in drinking water for 5 weeks and treated thereafter with glycine (100 and 500 mg/kg, orally) once daily for 5 days or glycine (1000 mg/kg, orally) once daily for 28 days. The effect of these treatments on parameters indicative of oxidative stress (glutathione and malondialdehyde levels), the activity of blood δ-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase, and lead concentration in blood, liver, kidney, brain, and bone were investigated. Liver samples were observed for histopathological changes. Glycine was found to be effective in (1) increasing glutathione levels; (2) reducing malondialdehyde levels; (3) decreasing lead levels in bone with the highest dose. However, glycine had no effect on lead mobilization when 100 and 500 mg/kg glycine were administered. In microscopic examination, glycine showed a protective effect against lead intoxication.


Highest dose works out to be around 5 grams for humans.

#15 bacopa

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:35 PM

I have all kinds of heavy metal toxins, mostly mercury from grinding on my amalgams for years. I know only the hair test can show reliability in mercury poisoning, as only acute heavy metal poisoinings show up on blood tests, at least for mercury, and perhaps lead as well.

I'm so mercury poisoned, it becomes impossible to know who or whta to believe, how much of this chelation herbal stuff is quackery, and how much is grounded in science.

Yes DMSA seems to be a real chelating agent, and zeolite and clay, activated charcoal, ALA, n acetyl cysteine, gluthione all play huge roles in truthful ways to detox.

however, if lead or mercury is in your brain, people like Andy Cutler believe only Alpha Lipoic Acid is capable of removing mercury from the brain, but I don't think chelating agents like DMSA help at all get past the blood brain barrier.

So I need help with this too, as I can barely get out of bed, have horrible insomnia, but this is your thread, so I'm trying to perhaps combine this so we can both benefit. I would say be weary of alternative medicine docs, because as one poster here said they tend to see the horrrors of regular medicine, and end up thinking the herbal, all natural route is always healthier when you can get just as sick trying to chleate from cilantro, and heavy greens, try the yahoo chelation mercury forums. I can send you the link if you are interested...I'm in too much pain now to think.

#16 Ark

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:44 AM

How do you think you got lead and mercury poisoning? From taking supplements like piracetam that might contain heavy metals? I'm not trying to be flippant-- I'm genuinely curious as I know nothing about this matter. What are your symptoms?

Most importantly, get well!



This is the fear realized when we do so much unchecked bulk powders from questionable sources.......

#17 bacopa

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:06 PM

so 1000mg of glycine would mobilize lead from the brain?

what do you guys think would be the optimal mercury chelator from the brain?

People claim ALA, or RLA, but I heard this is a weak chelator.

And,

Is is really possible to Undo heavy metal brain damage, if it's severe enough?

So assuming you can mobilize heavy metals from the brain, I'd imagine there is going to be damage...so would the brain just heal better, despite the damage, just not having the metals clogging up things?

I'd be interested in learning besides NGF, (neurogenesis) how one could reverse heavy metal brain damage.

I saw a video of how mercury destorys brain cells in vitro, I wonder how resiliant our brains actually are to heavy toxicities.

thoughts?

Edited by dfowler, 05 December 2011 - 12:12 PM.


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#18 bacopa

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

Following is a rambling message about my current thoughts on my possible lead/mercury "burden/toxicity/poisoning."

I've been working in New England all summer and haven't had a chance to start a cycle or anything. I've got a copy of amalgam illness on the way but I may not receive it for awhile. I'm now wondering whether I should believe in the results of the urine test I did a few months ago or not. The ND I talked to did not give me straightforward answers about how to interpret the results in the phone conversation I had with him. I began this relationship with the ND having good confidence in his general judgment, but I'm having second thoughts due to his nebulous description of my heavy metals results.

It's almost as if I want to believe I have the mercury/lead burden, because it would explain a lot and fit with my thyroid/adrenal problems, and it's again something solid to point to and say "this is why I'm having these problems," which is always preferable to the diagnosis I was branded with prior to discovering hypothyroidism: depression. I'm wondering if it would be intelligent to try a cycle or two of Cutler's protocol with some DMSA or ALA and see if there are any detox symptoms, and then draw my own diagnosis from there. Admittedly this sounds less than scientific, but what's the harm? Talk me out of this if it's a bad idea.

The problem is that I'm not functional to an acceptable degree (and yes, I understand that "acceptable" is highly subjective, but I just "know" that I'm not functioning anywhere near what I should be.) I need about 10g/day DMAE to pass for normal mentally. Otherwise I have to hold my tongue and take much longer to consider my responses to people because there are so many gaps in my thoughts. It's like trying to read a book with death metal shaking your ear drums--you might be able to get though a couple of sentences, but mostly you struggle to get through a paragraph.


if you have mercury fillings get them out before trying the Cutler protocal...everyone on the chelation boards says this. If you don't have any mercury fillings, so any metal in your mouth constitutes 50% mercury, then it might not hurt, as you won't chelate the mercury from the fillings.

But here's the part many people question. Does it make sense that ALA would mobilize mercury from the fillings itself? It seems dubious to me. I question Andy's belief that ALA crosses the bbb, in such a way that it safely removes mercury without killing the brain more.

So maybe just we all have lots of metals in our brains, but our brains compensate, through adapting in some way, neruogenesis, but maybe there is some kind of other adaption to all the toxins that most of us are loaded with. Think of all the heavy smokers, who are still quite bright. Christopher Hitchens chaned smoked his life away and was a drunk of the worst kind...yes it damaged him of course, but he's still far smarter than most.

So obviously our brains are strongly adaptive, and the BBB is pretty resiliant to toxins, I would guess, just guessing. However, some people may be far more suspeptible, in my case an apoxic brain injury may have made it that much worse in how i react to chemicals. The whole chemical senstiive people idea. I know it's true because some people get very sick from toxins, with obvious correlation. People have become deathly ill from swallowing just a few particles of mercury.

I don't pretend to understand how this works. But I am quite sure that if you start taking care of yourself, you can beat this...I just am hesitant to believe theories of chelation when it comes to the brain, or maybe you can but it could do more harm than good. I'm talking for my own problems as well.

They say only ALA can mobilize mercury from the brain...again people make all sorts of claims that have been disproven, there might be other ways to chelate from the brain heavy metals, in our diet, that we don't know about....for myself I'm trying to up my immune system with high dose vit C and organic diet, it also causes a placebo effect when you know you are eating well.

So when I'm strong enough I'll get the fuckers out, the mercuries, I"m told some become very sick if not done right, and even then some are. In my case I ground down half of my 8 fillings. So I am not acutely sensitive, just I have a lot of f ing mercury.

Edited by dfowler, 05 December 2011 - 12:25 PM.





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