51 replies to this topic

[Anewlife]

Low protein is bad.
I dont think vegan diets are good either. Meat is by a good margin the most nutritious food there is, it doesnt need articles claiming its benefits.

People think protein is just for muscle but it is for upkeep of the entire body and all the amino acids, you need amino acids in your system to function normally.

I believe in protein at every meal, and I think low protein is bad because the increase is carbs you need to meet your calorie requirements causes its own issues. Protein and far both slow the digestion of carbs.

[scottknl]

Low protein is bad.
I dont think vegan diets are good either. Meat is by a good margin the most nutritious food there is, it doesnt need articles claiming its benefits.

People think protein is just for muscle but it is for upkeep of the entire body and all the amino acids, you need amino acids in your system to function normally.

I believe in protein at every meal, and I think low protein is bad because the increase is carbs you need to meet your calorie requirements causes its own issues. Protein and far both slow the digestion of carbs.

So do you consider RDA protein levels to be "low protein"? And do you think cancer is encouraged by a higher protein diet? Cancer can really spoil the joy of your workouts.

All the aminos from meat are also available from plant products, so that's no argument for eating meat.

If we talk about belief here, my own suggestion is that people start with a balanced diet and tweak according to individual needs.

[Anewlife]

I can't comment about cancer. I do think the rda is low but that's not to say I think a high protein diet is for everyone although I would not want to go below 100g. It's very difficult to eat vegan and not have to supplement one thing or another.

[Mind]

One can eat more healthy fat, to replace some protein calories. That way you don't have to jack up the carbs in your diet in order to get maintenance calories or feel "full/satiated".

[Chupo]

This is something I found interesting. Lowering carb intake while increasing protein intake reduced serum free IGF-1 by 32%.




http://www.ergo-log....uttraining.html

This is the more interesting part: "The protein diet had increased the activity of anabolic signal molecules in the muscle cells. The most noticeable effect was that the muscle cells started to produce more IGF-1. This is different IGF-1 to that found in the bloodstream"

This cancer study found that low insulin and high ketone levels were correlated with stable disease or partial remission. IGF-1 wasn't but I don't see where they measured free IGF-1 or IGFIBP. Nor do I see mention of protein restriction, other than the patient who refused to eat meat the first day.

Two questions: How is the IGF-1 that is created by the muscle cells themselves, different from the serum IGF-1 produced by the liver and sent into the bloodlsteam? And wouldn't it be better to keep both carbs and protein low rather than just protein or just carbs? Children on ketogenic diets are growth-stunted so I would think it'd become beneficial to adults after growth had stopped.

Edited by Chupoman, 02 January 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[xEva]

This is something I found interesting. Lowering carb intake while increasing protein intake reduced serum free IGF-1 by 32%.

this is in contradiction to the quotes posted in the beginning of this very thread. Who is willing to sort this out? Or is it the type of protein that matters?

Before I make any decisions, I'd like to know: Does higher protein lower IGF-1 in humans or does it raise it?


PS
@Chupoman: I thought you had a fearsome prehistoric carnivore as your avatar What's that new ava? You did not go vegan lol did you?

Edited by xEva, 03 January 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[Chupo]

This is something I found interesting. Lowering carb intake while increasing protein intake reduced serum free IGF-1 by 32%.

this is in contradiction to the quotes posted in the beginning of this very thread. Who is willing to sort this out? Or is it the type of protein that matters?

Before I make any decisions, I'd like to know: Does higher protein lower IGF-1 in humans or does it raise it?

Protein does raise IGF-1 in the context of a non-ketogenic diet. That much we know. I think being ketogenic is what's lowering the free IGF-1 here in spite of the increased protein in that study. What I'd like to know is how much lower, if at all, would IGF-1 go on a ketogenic diet that is lower in protein?

PS
@Chupoman: I thought you had a fearsome prehistoric carnivore as your avatar What's that new ava? You did not go vegan lol did you?

I did. I just felt like switching things up a bit. The new avatar is the default avatar that I decided to scribble on. I'm still on a ketogenic, lowish protein diet.

[Julia36]

So how many people do ADF here?

the 2010 study was for intermittent fasting on rats.

ADF is max 500-600 cals (men) and 400-50 cals women, every other day.
Human tests on it re heart are planed over the next few months by the Canadian researcher in the programme (K Varady).

I seem to get great early benefits including weight loss.

[drtom]

So how many people do ADF here?

the 2010 study was for intermittent fasting on rats.

ADF is max 500-600 cals (men) and 400-50 cals women, every other day.
Human tests on it re heart are planed over the next few months by the Canadian researcher in the programme (K Varady).

I seem to get great early benefits including weight loss.

I have been on a form of ADF for over 4 years.
Monday, Wednesday and Friday I eat only dinner in the evening.
The other days I eat normally. So I have 3 fasting periods per week of about 20 hours.
I used to eat a little meat (usually in soup) and chicken or fish, but I have cut those out.
I don't eat cheese or eggs either now, so it's basically a vegan diet on the above schedule.
I have been swayed by the evidence that most of the benefits of CR are simply Methionine restriction.
My weight is stable at about 72kg.

I have had a complete blood analysis done the last 2 years and both have shown slight neutropenia.
That means, I have fewer white blood cells than normal. This has been interpreted as an indicator of low inflammation status, which is the desired outcome.

The downsides are the hunger pangs and irritability with low blood glucose. I have thought of trying hunger suppressants.

Cheers!

[kurdishfella]

you dont only need it daily but you need more than you use up otherwise your body will suffer.

Edited by kurdishfella, 14 April 2022 - 11:48 PM.

[Woody42]

I have seen 2 vidios talking about the health benefits of lower protein.

 

 

 

But I have also seen a couple of articles showing that at least 

in elderly protein eaten earlier in the day is utalized beter. 

 

https://www.scienced...007129?via=ihub

 

 

Ok here comes a mouse study  about the sweetner Alouse  where it helped prevent

muscle waisting in elderly mice.   I just wonder if it would have the same effect in humans 

and might it let us consume less protein and still maintain lean body mass,    

 

https://www.scienced...007129?via=ihub

[kurdishfella]

maybe it only helps people with preexisting diseases 

[Mind]

After reading a lot of nutritional information and studies over the years, I think low protein is also the way to go once a person has stopped growing, a few years past puberty,

 

Some people, like athletes and manual laborers, probably need a little more protein, but most middle and older aged people probably do not need much protein outside of what one can get from vegetables. An egg or a small portion of meat or fish every other day seems to be more than enough.

[ta5]

Ok here comes a mouse study  about the sweetner Alouse  where it helped prevent

muscle waisting in elderly mice.   I just wonder if it would have the same effect in humans 

and might it let us consume less protein and still maintain lean body mass,    

 

https://www.scienced...007129?via=ihub

 

You mean Allulose (D-Psicose)? I think you mistakenly linked to the other study twice in your post. But, here's one:

Allulose Attenuated Age-Associated Sarcopenia via Regulating IGF-1 and Myostatin in Aged Mice

Of course, increasing IGF-1 may not be a good thing for aging. There are some other interesting studies on Allulose and muscle.

[Mind]

Dr. Lustgarten leans toward lower protein intake for longevity.

 

https://www.longecit...ke-n1-analysis/

[9lives]

I'm for normal protein intake ... normal, being variable based on individual needs but in the vicinity of the food guidelines. High protein activates MTOR. We generally don't want that, but cycling into higher protein is acceptable to give our bodies a boost with growth/renewal.

 

The key to longevity though wrt protein, is limiting intake of certain amino acids - specifically, Methionine and Tryptophan. Glycine helps to clear Methionine and helps to achieve the CR effects.

[Zaul]

https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext

 

Amino acid availability is not essential for lifespan extension by dietary restriction in the fly 

 

Abstract

Dietary restriction (DR) is one of the most potent ways to extend health- and lifespan. Key progress in understanding the mechanisms of DR, and ageing more generally, was made when dietary protein, and more specifically essential amino acids (EAA), were identified as the dietary component to restrict to obtain DR’s health and lifespan benefits. This role of dietary amino acids has influenced work on ageing mechanisms, especially in nutrient sensing, e.g. Tor and insulin(-like) signalling networks. Experimental biology in Drosophila melanogaster has been instrumental in generating and confirming the hypothesis that EAA availability is important in ageing. Here, we expand on previous work testing the involvement of EAA in DR through large scale (N=6,238) supplementation experiments across four diets and two genotypes in female flies. Surprisingly, we find that EAA are not essential to DR’s lifespan benefits. Importantly, we do identify the fecundity benefits of EAA supplementation suggesting the supplemented EAA were bioavailable. Furthermore, we find that the effects of amino acids on lifespan vary by diet and genetic line studied and that at our most restricted diet fecundity is constrained by other nutrients than EAA. We suggest that DR for optimal health is a concert of nutritional effects, orchestrated by genetic, dietary and other environmental interactions. Our results question the universal importance of amino acid availability in the biology of ageing and DR.

 

Edited by Zaul, 08 May 2022 - 01:08 PM.

[kurdishfella]

Low protein will make your body eventually break down tissues like veins, tendons, parts of teeth's etc for proteins instead of just muscles to survive and keep the heart going thus brain and rest of the body. the biggest healing takes place during rest (not sleeping but just not moving).

Edited by kurdishfella, 28 October 2022 - 01:30 PM.

[kurdishfella]

no protein is needed without it vitamins cant work and without vitamins it cant work effectively

[Michael]

This is something I found interesting. Lowering carb intake while increasing protein intake reduced serum free IGF-1 by 32%.


http://www.ergo-log....uttraining.html

It's important to emphasize (as you did in a followup post) that this was not just a low-carb diet, but a ketogenic diet. Insulin levels get sufficiently low on a ketogenic diet that IGF-1 synthesis is suppressed despite a relatively high protein intake; this is not representative of adding protein even to a moderately low-carb diet such as typical Paleo, Zone, or Soutt Beach.
 

This is the more interesting part: "The protein diet had increased the activity of anabolic signal molecules in the muscle cells. The most noticeable effect was that the muscle cells started to produce more IGF-1. This is different IGF-1 to that found in the bloodstream"

Two questions: How is the IGF-1 that is created by the muscle cells themselves, different from the serum IGF-1 produced by the liver and sent into the bloodlsteam?

They're referring here to the muscle-specific isoforms IGF-1Eb and IGF-1Ec (the latter AKA mechano-growth factor, MGF). These are secreted by muscle cells after moderate injury or exercise-induced muscle damage and act in a paracrine/autocrine manner, and MGF is believed to be the main isoform  responsible for muscle hypertrophy after exrcise. MGF is unlike IGF-1 proper which is produced by the liver, circulates widely, and stimulates growth of all kinds of things ... good and bad. There was a spurt of research on this in the early 2000s-mid-2010s, but it seems to have petered out for reasons of which I'm unaware.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2714010/

https://onlinelibrar...1111/acel.12954

[Bike_to_120]

Just listened to Peter Attia interview with Matt Kaeberlein on nutrition. Seems likely that if you are over 50 higher protein is beneficial.

 

[Woody42]

I have seen a couple of articles showing protein consumed early in the day have a more pronounced effect on

maintaining and or building lean body mass.  And looking at 0 calorie sweetner Alulose it seems to have a  interesting

properties. When eaten with carbs it lowers the blood glucose spike and raises Igl-1. In some experiements with

elderly mice adding this to there water this increase in Igf-1 helped them maintain lean body mass.