8 replies to this topic

[nameless]

Just curious what people here think, which is better for joint pain, cetyl myristoleate or glucosamine?

Has anyone here used cetyl myristoleate and gotten good results from it? Any actual differences between cetyl myristoleate and celadrin, besides patents?

I tried Celadrin for about 4 weeks and didn't notice much. But I dropped it (when I ran out) and also krill oil (as it is expensive), but sorta made the mistake of dropping both at the same time. It could be a pure coincidence, but I noticed my joint pain has been worse the past several weeks and since I dropped both at the same time, I have no idea which one may have been helping.

Are there any known negatives or risks with taking either? For glucosamine, we have the potential for raised cholesterol, but that has been ruled out by follow-up studies (to the best of my knowledge). Cetyl Myristoleate works as an anti-inflammatory, perhaps inhibiting cox-2 & 5-lox, but I'm not aware of any risks associated with using it longterm -- besides perhaps for one's nose, as the stuff smells pretty bad.

Looking for opinions + recommendations.

[adamh]

I tried it for a while and didn't notice anything. It's kind of expensive.

[FunkOdyssey]

Are there any known negatives or risks with taking either? For glucosamine, we have the potential for raised cholesterol, but that has been ruled out by follow-up studies (to the best of my knowledge). Cetyl Myristoleate works as an anti-inflammatory, perhaps inhibiting cox-2 & 5-lox, but I'm not aware of any risks associated with using it longterm -- besides perhaps for one's nose, as the stuff smells pretty bad.

Risks of glucosamine include lower mortality rate. Risks of cetyl myristoleate I'd say are largely unknown, since its not well studied. I ran into some information that made me uncomfortable about it last year, which I can't recall now.

Nonetheless my vote would be 110% glucosamine.

[nameless]

Thanks for the replies.

I do have some concern regarding the longterm usage of anything without some studies behind it, and you are right, Cetyl Mysritoleate isn't exactly well studied. And in the back of my mind I sometimes wonder if anti-inflammatory can perhaps equal immune suppression... so... it may not be a good idea.

Regarding glucosamine, is there any issue with Lyme people taking it? Some Lymenet people have suggested it may be a bad idea, due to this article:

http://www.townsendl...06/lyme0206.htm

---
An effort to determine which carbohydrates Bb consumes revealed that the organism utilizes the monosaccharides glucose, mannose and N-acetylglucosamine, as well as the disaccharides maltose and chitobiose. A popular treatment for arthritis includes the administration of chondroitin sulfate and N-acetylglucosamine. If the arthritis is Lyme-induced, N-acetylglucosamine is contraindicated.
---

Although NAG isn't exactly glucosamine, and I'm not sure if that claim is so accurate as it seems Lyme eats up a lot of things anyway, including various minerals.

I've been considering the Doctor's Best brand, which I think FunkOdyssey also takes (saw it in your regimen post) -- the one that includes chondrotin and MSM too. How stomach friendly is that product?

Edited by nameless, 25 June 2010 - 06:38 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

And in the back of my mind I sometimes wonder if anti-inflammatory can perhaps equal immune suppression... so... it may not be a good idea.

I'm pretty sure the information that turned me off to celadrin were immunosuppressive properties.

The Lyme eating glucosamine thing initially scared me off of it as well. Until logic prevailed. The availability of glucosamine is not a limiting factor in their growth, unless they have eaten every bit of cartilage and collagen in your body. You can benefit from glucosamine precisely BECAUSE they are degrading and eating your collagen.

I have a sensitive troublemaking GI in general and the doctor's best combination formula causes no problems for me. Its helped my "mouse elbow" considerably, which is a long-standing tendonitis I caused with a combination of heavy weight-lifting and FPS gaming.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 25 June 2010 - 06:56 PM.

[nameless]

I have a sensitive troublemaking GI in general and the doctor's best combination formula causes no problems for me. Its helped my "mouse elbow" considerably, which is a long-standing tendonitis I caused with a combination of heavy weight-lifting and FPS gaming.

Did you take a full dose (1500mg glucosamine daily) and how long before you noticed a benefit?

I have several bad spots, including jaw and neck, so if it helps, I should end up noticing it. Just not sure if it'd work reasonably fast, or if it'll take 3-4 months to notice anything.

And since I'm considering the one with MSM included, can MSM cause a problem with copper storage?

http://www.acu-cell.com/ses.html

Copper is annoyingly difficult to test via serum, and since I'm taking some zinc daily, I'd ideally not like to accidentally cause a a copper deficiency with zinc + MSM. What would be a safe dosage of MSM daily? One that wouldn't intefere with copper?

[FunkOdyssey]

Did you take a full dose (1500mg glucosamine daily) and how long before you noticed a benefit?

I've been taking two capsules twice daily (the full 1500mg dose). I think it was a week before I was certain that it was helping. Its been about two weeks now and improved even more.

And since I'm considering the one with MSM included, can MSM cause a problem with copper storage?

I can't find anything relating MSM to copper in pubmed. The search of those terms together, both the abbreviation MSM and the full Methylsulfonylmethane return zero hits. What is your source of information? I am skeptical that MSM would interfere in some way with copper levels.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 25 June 2010 - 07:16 PM.

[nameless]

I don't have a pubmed source, just that acu-cell article. Although I am pretty sure I've read that sulfur can deplete copper from some other source in the past (just not sure where I read it).

http://www.acu-cell.com/ses.html


With MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) entering the market, it immediately became so much easier to deal with
medical conditions requiring larger amounts of sulfur as part of their treatment. Both, selenium and sulfur bind
to a number of heavy, or toxic metals, with selenium being protective against cadmium, arsenic, mercury, and
lead, while sulfur (being to a lesser degree protective of the same), is also helpful to lower aluminum levels.

Sulfur interferes with the storage of copper, an essential trace element, however copper levels tend to be on
the high side with many people, so this is generally a positive effect. It is interesting that patients with normal
or below-normal copper levels rarely exhibit below-normal sulfur levels. In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing
supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive
effect on cartilage regeneration, but they are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote
joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the right side of the body.

Of course, on those rare occasions when copper is actually deficient, sulfur-containing supplements - just
like larger amounts of Vitamin C - should not be used, as they could trigger, or worsen existing inflammatory
conditions. In addition, individuals with a tendency for blood sugar disorders (diabetes) should be aware of
potential negative consequences on blood sugar management when supplementing glucosamine sulfate.


But I'm not sure if MSM specifically can intefere with copper, or if another form of sulfur may... or at typical MSM doses it's all a moot point.

Edited by nameless, 25 June 2010 - 07:38 PM.

[ironfistx]

Thanks for the replies.

I do have some concern regarding the longterm usage of anything without some studies behind it, and you are right, Cetyl Mysritoleate isn't exactly well studied. And in the back of my mind I sometimes wonder if anti-inflammatory can perhaps equal immune suppression... so... it may not be a good idea.

Bunches of sources online say it's immuno-suppressive.