112 replies to this topic

[medievil]

medievil: perhaps it would be a better idea to build up to those kind of doses rather than start on them right away.

Impossible, i dont have patience

[Introspecta]

I'd keep it as low as possible because it gets annoying after awhile only being able to notice benefits when taking 15+ grams. I wish i responded to lower amounts. Plus with the piracetam ban my 3 kilos won't last too long.

[medievil]

Ok, guys if any of my posts start to sounds manic like, warn me, because the last thing i want is becoming manic.

[aLurker]

Ok, guys if any of my posts start to sounds manic like, warn me, because the last thing i want is becoming manic.

We'll warn you if you warn us when you're becoming god.

[health_nutty]

Ok, guys if any of my posts start to sounds manic like, warn me, because the last thing i want is becoming manic.

You sound okay so far...

[medievil]

So far it makes me really tired, i took an extra dose of AMT in hope it would give me energy so i can do my workout tonight, otherwise wont do much then laying around in the sofa or something.

[medievil]

I took 10mg more, so 20mg of piracetam a day.

I'm also on 60mg memantine now, the piracetam prevent the disociation and hopefully the memantine will keep my mood stabilised on the high doses of piracetam.

[chrono]

I'm giving this a try at the moment, 12 gram piracetam a day, in combination with 60mg of memantine wich should (theoretically) keep my mood stable and block mania from occuring.

So far it makes me really tired, i took an extra dose of AMT in hope it would give me energy so i can do my workout tonight, otherwise wont do much then laying around in the sofa or something.

Are you taking this all in one dose? Either way, being tired sounds like the acetylcholine-depleting effects. Did you end up taking ALCAR with it? I suspect that larger doses will require more in the way of ACh counterbalancing, but for all I know it may be a bell-shaped thing as well. If you're going to use it at this dosage level, I would definitely build some off time into the cycle...maybe something like 1-2 days a week, and a week or two every 2-3 months (at least). One of the problems with hyperdosing, in addition to apotheosis, is that the effects seem to wear off, and people end up escalating their dose to ridiculous amounts.

Did you try piracetam and ALCAR together at more common dosages, first? There really is some good evidence that higher doses don't improve your cognition, even if they 'feel' like they're doing other stuff. Though I guess if you're looking for mood or sensory enhancement, it may make sense.

Ok, guys if any of my posts start to sounds manic like, warn me, because the last thing i want is becoming manic.

We'll have an intervention locked and loaded.

Edited by chrono, 13 October 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[medievil]

Yes i take 1 gram alcar and 16 mg galantamine a day with it.

I'm taking 2 doses of 10mg a day, galantamine is also divided in 2 doses.

This is just a small experiment, probably wont keep on doing this.

[chrono]

You may want to up that to 2g ALCAR with each dose. Health_nutty found it to make all the difference for alleviating piracetam side effects, so it may help you out.

[medievil]

You may want to up that to 2g ALCAR with each dose. Health_nutty found it to make all the difference for alleviating piracetam side effects, so it may help you out.

Interesting thx, i'l try that now.

Also at the moment i'm testing wheter memantine would be capable of actively reversing my AMT tolerance WHILE im on it, i even went to 80mg of memantine a day today, piracetam is known to completely block disociatives but i'm thinking that the nmda antagonism still occurs in the reward related area's.

I could as well take a few days off, but wanted to try this little experiment.

Piracetam seems to block the euphoric effects of AMT but that doesnt matter, as long i can get the pro motivating, prosocial effects.

[medievil]

I took some more alcar and it seems to make me even more tired.

I'm guessing my brain just has to adjust, and that in a couple of days id feel energized. (if i start posting i'm GOD ban me right away, that will make me realise this is doing me no good )

[medievil]

Today i dont seem to be as tired, the 80mg of memantine does give me double vision, AMT and dexedrine are inhibited at this point i'm guessing due to the memantine adaptation phase, hopefully i would soon find balance with the therapeutic effects i need, except the euphoria.

[medievil]

Nothing wakes you up quite like the taste of quaffing 12 grams worth of piracetam down the hatch at eight o'clock in the morning.

SO what results did you get out of those high doses.

[chrono]

lol, come on, man. Starting 2 noots (one mega-dosed) and doubling your dose of memantine all on the same day is like, the worst possible way to do any of those things. It's possible you have a bad reaction to ALCAR and/or choline sources, but it's really pretty impossible to tell in this situation.

[medievil]

lol, come on, man. Starting 2 noots (one mega-dosed) and doubling your dose of memantine all on the same day is like, the worst possible way to do any of those things. It's possible you have a bad reaction to ALCAR and/or choline sources, but it's really pretty impossible to tell in this situation.

Its just a small experiment Without the piracetam i wouldnt be able to raise the memantine dose that quickly and it will take me 2 weeks, and i also want to figure out wheter piracetam inhibits the anti tolerance effects of memantine, and wheter high doses can actively reverse tolerance.

This experiment (wich wont last longer then a full week, will give me some answers )

Edited by medievil, 14 October 2010 - 10:32 PM.

[medievil]

If i dont see any results tomorrow its time to abort the experiment and i will beleive that those ppl that liked those doses just got manic (wich mem should protect me from).

[Wurzel Bagman]

The benefits i found from piracetam could very well have been attributed to an induced hypo-manic state. However, there are other factors that i am trying to piece together to figure out how i reached the point i was talking about in my original post.

Less piracetam more often seems to be better than a single mega-dose. A mega-dose in the morning and then small doses throughout the day was my routine when it was working its best. I was also taking an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor at the time: huperzine-a. Marijuana could have also played a big role in my subjective well being at the time.

I think what caused this "super human" feeling was the active abundance of acetylcholine which counteracted many of the negatives of marijuana and left me feeling on top of the world.

I feel like delving back into piracetam experimentation. I will try saturating myself with piracetam, taking some galantamine and vaporizing some marijuana and see if i get back into the groove of the magical piracetam state.

[chrono]

From my recollections, I think part of the allure of higher dosages of piracetam is that you just "feel" it more. It produces more of a shift in headspace, more of the color-brightening, more mood effects; but I think these are quite separate from the cognitive benefits. The hypomania should certainly be considered, but I don't think it's the only factor involved. Just a thought, though.

Medievil, remind me, have you taken piracetam before? I vaguely recall you saying it didn't work that great. I too am curious about how memantine and piracetam interact (antagonist and modulator).

I was also taking an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor at the time: huperzine-a.

This is what jumps out at me. Of all the things I've tried so far, Hup-A is the one that makes me feel the most on-point, savoir faire, sharply focused without overfocus. Especially when combined with piracetam and ALCAR. The 'word on the street' is that hup A is great for improving memory, but I think that's just a myth derived from AChEI use in alzheimer's, and maybe a few donepizil studies; I would describe it much more as modulating conceptual fluidity. I wish I wasn't concerned about its long-lasting inhibition of AChE and possible dysregulation during sleep, but it's something I'm still researching.

Edited by chrono, 15 October 2010 - 08:01 PM.

[RighteousReason]

I started taking this substance back in April. At the time i had no scale or means to find out how much piracetam i was actually consuming. I would use a regular sized tablespoon from my drawer and mix anywhere from 1/4 to heaping spoonfuls with water and not really pay much attention to dose.

For a few days i didn't notice much difference aside from clarity of vision and feeling very sleepy at times. Then I started to get what seemed like limitless energy. I felt very much alive and full of life. My eyes gleamed, shiny and bright as continued taking large doses of this stuff.

I began to feel what felt like almost super human abilities. I was noticing everything in my surroundings in much a different way. I would walk into a crowded area and scan everyone in my vicinity. At home, i was able to pickup and listen to conversations that took place far away in distant rooms. I took a few basic hearing tests online and was able to hear very high frequencies (maxing out my headphones 22hz) At my part time job i was able to work faster, think crystal clearly and perform tasks with great ease.

My interest in every aspect of life skyrocketed. I found myself engaging in conversation with people who i previously would never see myself associating with. Learning became very enjoyable and i learnt to touch type with the Dvorak keyboard layout.

I felt i was becoming faster and faster at thinking and doing. My vision became a thing of beauty with it's crisp vibrant color. It became a true joy to merely glance around in any setting.

I read many of Isochroma's posts and can understand dead on why he said some of the things he did and could relate on many fronts.

Then in the mail arrived the empty capsules i decided to get since my cocktails weren't exactly the most appetizing elixirs. I manually filled pills and took them when outside my home. I still took my unmeasured drinks of raw energy in the morning. Then i slowly tapered off the mixing of the drinks opting for the quick and painless capsule form. Over a few weeks my experiences became to decline and i found myself less vivacious and becoming more "human" again. I blamed it on life circumstance changes and becoming "used" to the piracetam state. I was taking roughly 10 capsules on average over the course of a day which i figured was plenty.

Up until a few days ago when i bought a scale i had no idea how much i was actually consuming. Low and behold my heaping spoonful doses were an insane 12g!! (the pills roughly 800mg).

I would estimate that at the start i was taking roughly 24-36grams per day and man was it great

I drank an average of 4 litres a day as i was always thirsty and had water on hand at all times.

When i found out how much i was actually consuming it frightened me. But after coming down to more reasonable doses i think i want to go back to that original state of (unhuman) being.

I just had another 12g cocktail of life (which i havent had in months) and im feeling the life flow back into me.

Does anyone have any experiences of mega dosing to share? Are there any major risks associated with it? (i went about a month on my initial mega dose spree) To people that claim the stuff doesn't do much, have you tried 12gram doses?

good lawd

Marijuana could have also played a big role in my subjective well being at the time.

ah. that explains a lot.

Edited by RighteousReason, 15 October 2010 - 10:32 PM.

[RighteousReason]

Could someone give me a quick rundown of what happened to this Isochroma fellow?

Note: he was arrogant and bigoted before he started abusing ridiculous doses of piracetam. Slowly he began to develop hypomanic tendencies, mild delusions of grandeur, absurdly long posts that would have little substance primarily consisting of him extolling the virtues of piracetam, he began stockpiling piracetam in huge amounts out of a paranoid fear the government was going to ban it etc..

Then he began to display full on manic characteristics. Extreme delusions including grandiosity; such as him believing he was becoming god, that he saw the world in slow motion because his mind was so fast, that he was mentally perfect, that his life had suddenly become 'golden' whatever that means, incredibly long unstructured posts that appeared frantic; primarily once again about the virtues of piracetam and how he had 'lubricated' his brain to deity-like functionality, that life was no longer challenging because everything was so easy, that other people had become like ants to him etc...

It's also important to note that he lived alone and was unemployed, living off state disability benefit for some some obscure self-diagnosed illness and he rarely left his accommodation. This means he had no-one to moderate his behaviour and let him know how exaggerated his behaviour was.

Eventually the mania broke, and he developed a paranoid psychosis. He believed he was being watched or monitored, that his posts would draw the attention of the government because he had discovered the way to ascend to godhood and that he had to maintain his secret. He began demanding that his posts and account he deleted, threatening the moderators with his god-like hacking abilities and how he could ruin the site or take control of it if he wanted. He claimed we had no idea what he was now capable of and we had better ascent to his demands. He was highly aggressive and argumentative at this point. Finally his account and recent posts were edited into anonymity, he posted a few more agressive random posts and then just disappeared. Hopefully into a psychiatric clinic.

Apparently he has recently reappeared, once again rambling about piracetam. Which means either he hasn't learnt his lesson from whatever consequences he suffered or that he simply has continued to abuse the piracetam and for some reason his mania subsided, which is unlikely.

LOL

[Wurzel Bagman]

good lawd

Haha yes that was me at the time :S I'm not normally that manic (i'm not bipolar and have only experienced hypo-mania when taking large doses of the stuff) I haven't had doses nearly as high as in my original post for quite some time. I might try that again and see if it still works on me.

Edited by ptamaddict, 15 October 2010 - 10:41 PM.

[Animal]

medievil: perhaps it would be a better idea to build up to those kind of doses rather than start on them right away.

Impossible, i dont have patience

Unless your attitude changes you're never going to resolve the issues which you currently medicate away in an amphetamine buzz. It's quite obvious why you tend to focus on drugs which give you instant gratification.

It should be clear to anyone with a modicum of practical psychiatric experience or even A-level equivalent psychology that ptamaddict was experiencing a hypomanic episode. These can be quite damaging to the brain, especially if it progresses to mania, the inevitable comedown will get progressively more unpleasant and prolonged with repeated episodes. Probably the most detrimental outcome of a hypomanic/manic episode is that the individual will remain ignorant, retain some of the delusions, and begin to actually pursue this state of mind, even developing a psychological addiction to it. I mean "12g cocktail of life"; what fucking nonsense.

Apparently a single hypomanic episode is sufficient grounds to diagnose bipolar II or cyclothymia, whether it was substance induced or not. I'm not sure I agree with that, but quite clearly only certain individuals are susceptible to piracetam induced mania, which indicates that there is a subjective psychological component.

[Wurzel Bagman]

medievil: perhaps it would be a better idea to build up to those kind of doses rather than start on them right away.

Impossible, i dont have patience

Unless your attitude changes you're never going to resolve the issues which you currently medicate away in an amphetamine buzz. It's quite obvious why you tend to focus on drugs which give you instant gratification.

It should be clear to anyone with a modicum of practical psychiatric experience or even A-level equivalent psychology that ptamaddict was experiencing a hypomanic episode. These can be quite damaging to the brain, especially if it progresses to mania, the inevitable comedown will get progressively more unpleasant and prolonged with repeated episodes. Probably the most detrimental outcome of a hypomanic/manic episode is that the individual will remain ignorant, retain some of the delusions, and begin to actually pursue this state of mind, even developing a psychological addiction to it. I mean "12g cocktail of life"; what fucking nonsense.

Apparently a single hypomanic episode is sufficient grounds to diagnose bipolar II or cyclothymia, whether it was substance induced or not. I'm not sure I agree with that, but quite clearly only certain individuals are susceptible to piracetam induced mania, which indicates that there is a subjective psychological component.

I figured you'd post about hypomania. Can you explain how it's damaging to the brain? Is it because of negative personality traits like impulsiveness and grandiose or is there a physiological element to it that's destructive to the brain? (Edit 2: Scratch that :P I can use search function/google. Hypomania is obviously not something to go dipping your toes into. People reading this should not take my original post too seriously. Although it can be fun to have a lot of energy from hypomania it's not worth the potential risks. I no longer consider large piracetam doses to be beneficial.) I would agree that I sound delusional with my language in that post. Thankfully i don't always seek that state of being and have drastically cut back on how much piracetam i take.

Edit: I actually sound a little like an addict of piracetam... I'm not actually and rarely take piracetam. Like many others, it has lost it's "magic" for me. I should probably change my username.

Edited by ptamaddict, 15 October 2010 - 11:26 PM.

[medievil]

Good post ptamaddict, i aborted the experiment today.

medievil: perhaps it would be a better idea to build up to those kind of doses rather than start on them right away.

Impossible, i dont have patience

Unless your attitude changes you're never going to resolve the issues which you currently medicate away in an amphetamine buzz. It's quite obvious why you tend to focus on drugs which give you instant gratification.

Except my amp buzz doesnt work... except reducing my anxiety but it doesnt help because the buzz keeps me inside instead of socializing, get is mister animal? Besides that my amp trials have never lasted longer then 2 weeks, and i try it each time in a differend experiment.

I have more patience for meds that have the potential to fix up my issues, wich piracetam or other nootropics clearly cant (except improve my mental condition).

Medievil, remind me, have you taken piracetam before? I vaguely recall you saying it didn't work that great. I too am curious about how memantine and piracetam interact (antagonist and modulator).

I have taken piracetam before yes, without memantine, i think i took 4 gram a day, it provided me wich extra clarity wich i liked however it pooped out after about 2 weeks.

Another reason i tried mega dosis is that piracetam counteracts most side effects of memantine, its known to fully block disociatives even ketamine that gets injected, today i dropped down to 5 gram of piracetam.

I found that doses in the 800-1200mg range worked better for me than 2g+.

Interesting, i will stick to that doses.

Tbh those high doses didnt feel too healthy for me, they made me damn sleepy, like yesterday i slept from 2 in the afternoon till today 12 noon AGAIN, somehow i think those doses just disrupt the brain wich ultimately leads to mania.

Edited by chrono, 16 October 2010 - 06:34 PM.
combined posts :)

[FadingGlow]

Perhaps slightly unrelated on a nootropic note... THC is not water-soluble so making a tea out of cannabis is very ineffective without adding a type of fat to it.

[bobman]

Thanks Animal. That makes sense.

I was a bit aggressive in my previous post, but it's only because I see so many people on these forums attempting to get high through abuse of nootropics or ADD medication.

Now I know you have mood disturbances, and are not necessarily trying to get a high, but more likely alleviate what feels like a ubiquitous low mood/lack of pleasure, so I can understand the motivation behind that. It's just that there are far more appropriate mood enhancers with a sustained effect that would be healthier psychologically and physiologically for you. Any form of mania is negative psychologically since it encourages mild delusions of grandeur and lust for the state of mind.

I've seen high piracetam doses liked with hypomania numerous times and typically on the come down the user has a form of temporary dysthymia which leads them to try ridiculous mega-dosing in an attempt to reclaim the buzz. Euphoria is an abnormal state and inherently has a reinforcing effect, people do not get true euphoria naturally unless some substance is involved be it holistic or not. Unless they are one of the rare individuals who has brain chemistry which tends to precipitate an enhanced mood state, the lucky bastards. Although these individuals do tend to be less productive then average because they see less reason to pursue rewarding activities.

If you are looking for more sustainable mood enhancers then make a thread about it and I'll be happy to recommend some to you.

Really, what the fuck are "mild delusions of grandeur"?

Where have you seen high piracetam doses linked with true hypomania? One or two individuals don't make up a large enough experimental size to determine any kind of link; if you comb through epidemiological data you can find non-significant negative reactions for every molecule in existence. I mean breathing seems to induce your hypomania, but I'm not claiming that NO2 and O2 cause hypomania. Physical phenomena and psychological state are very closely linked.

PS is temporary dysthymia the same thing as a passing bad mood, or is there another meaning you've associated with this quasi-medical term?

He was dead on regarding piracetam being targeted by that government

Edited by deletethisaccount, 17 November 2010 - 09:33 PM.

[AstralStorm]

Hello to the forum. Thought it'd be nice to share some experiences here.

I've been using this chemical for some time now (at least 2 years now), here's the short version of experience:
- piracetam preparations thanks to a friendly pharmacist (Lucetam, Nootropil or Biotropil depending on what was available) - it's prescription-only in EU, quite stupid
- it takes about an hour for piracetam to start fully working
- I've had best results with 2,4g single dose in the morning
- split dose has a similar effect, but late administration messed with day/night pattern (lack of perceived tiredness? hypomanic?)
- higher dose of 3,6g and up caused trouble later in the day, both split and single (feeling zombie-like,
choline depletion is unlikely to cause this, took a supplement to check that, no effect)
- tried very high dose in the range of 8g once or twice, not good at all.

Subjective effects of the dose:
- noticeably more focus
- knowledge "apparently coming from without" when needed - I wonder how I could remember some things
- not really any mood differences

(Note, I've been diagnosed half a year or so with borderline thyroid deficiency, corrected into low norm with 25ug l-thyroxine. Apparently this improved everything, esp. mood. Additive effects, no downside. Go check yourself for this.)

[Animal]

Really, what the fuck are "mild delusions of grandeur"?

Where have you seen high piracetam doses linked with true hypomania? One or two individuals don't make up a large enough experimental size to determine any kind of link; if you comb through epidemiological data you can find non-significant negative reactions for every molecule in existence. I mean breathing seems to induce your hypomania, but I'm not claiming that NO2 and O2 cause hypomania. Physical phenomena and psychological state are very closely linked.

PS is temporary dysthymia the same thing as a passing bad mood, or is there another meaning you've associated with this quasi-medical term?

He was dead on regarding piracetam being targeted by that government

Is it that difficult to comprehend; "mild delusions of grandeur" could be characterised as believing oneself or ones work to have a far greater significance to society then they actually do. An extreme form of pretentiousness, wherein these beliefs of significance are completely unfounded. It can also be exhibited when an individual believes they have some sort of unique ability, such as the capacity to see a persons 'aura'.

There have been lots of posts on this forum describing hypomanic states in relation to Piracetam consumption. Did I claim any kind of 'experimental size' samples or clinical evidence. Obviously I was referring to anecdotal linkage, why does everything have to be spelt out for you...

Temporary dysthymia would be a persistent low mood, for a week or more, but obviously not as sustained as clinical dysthymia.

I'm getting bored of you constantly attacking my posts with weak attempts at discrediting them. I won't bother to respond again unless you actually have a legitimate argument other then your lack of reading comprehension and inability to cognise inference.

[bobman]

Really, what the fuck are "mild delusions of grandeur"?

Where have you seen high piracetam doses linked with true hypomania? One or two individuals don't make up a large enough experimental size to determine any kind of link; if you comb through epidemiological data you can find non-significant negative reactions for every molecule in existence. I mean breathing seems to induce your hypomania, but I'm not claiming that NO2 and O2 cause hypomania. Physical phenomena and psychological state are very closely linked.

PS is temporary dysthymia the same thing as a passing bad mood, or is there another meaning you've associated with this quasi-medical term?

He was dead on regarding piracetam being targeted by that government

Is it that difficult to comprehend; "mild delusions of grandeur" could be characterised as believing oneself or ones work to have a far greater significance to society then they actually do. An extreme form of pretentiousness, wherein these beliefs of significance are completely unfounded. It can also be exhibited when an individual believes they have some sort of unique ability, such as the capacity to see a persons 'aura'.

There have been lots of posts on this forum describing hypomanic states in relation to Piracetam consumption. Did I claim any kind of 'experimental size' samples or clinical evidence. Obviously I was referring to anecdotal linkage, why does everything have to be spelt out for you...

Temporary dysthymia would be a persistent low mood, for a week or more, but obviously not as sustained as clinical dysthymia.

I'm getting bored of you constantly attacking my posts with weak attempts at discrediting them. I won't bother to respond again unless you actually have a legitimate argument other then your lack of reading comprehension and inability to cognise inference.

What posts show you that piracetam can induce hypomania? You often make base diagnoses from a selective readings of posts. I've been here for a while, and at most I can see highly excited posters, but I shouldn't have to point what a fool you'd be to attempt to classify internet activity with a condition as difficult to evaluate, as gray, as hypomania/cyclythomania/bipolar II.

at your co-opted terms: "Delusions of grandeur" are extreme delusions, and that outmost extension is inherent to the term. "Mild delusions of grandeur" is an oxymoron, a stupid thing to say. Same applies to dysthymia and duration. FYI "temporary" dysthymia is a bad mood. Temporary chronicity You want to be considered someone that contains a great deal of medical knowledge right? If that's the case, use the language correctly.

Let's say that this poster really had "mild" delusions. First of all, that is not something you could diagnosis from a handful of posts on an internet forum: Internet personas are often exercises in wish fulfillment, this is why no psychiatrist would be caught dead prescribing medications based on the behavior of a WOW avatar. However, in general "mild" delusions are not clinically significant unless there is some concurrent harmful effect. To wit: I'm not sure how someone could ever strive to great destinations without some anticipation of greatness,also called delusion when one has not achieved greatness, which transmute into prescient knowledge after some amount of realized achievement. His avatar as the wild Aldous on the forefront of mind expansion through nootropic use is no more abhorrent than your desires to be seen as a Feynman of clinicians, and in practice the results are less boorish, damaging:D. So we may more readily classify your dreams as clinically significant than his. I don't respect you because your horizons terminate at the edge of your ego, and because there is no critical mass of medical jargon that results in wisdom.

Delusions of grandeur are clinically significant because the afflicted is so out of touch with reality that no real benefit can be derived from the fantasy, and because it can be socially harmful; it's a brutish psychological trait, and because of this lack of understanding the patient needs to be trained to re-discover the borders of reality (in fact this loss of sensation regarding reality is inherent to the condition). The signs are contrast apparently against normal ideations and behavior. This guy does not have anything remotely resembling grandiose delusions.

Yeah, no need to respond.