43 replies to this topic

[aLurker]

As requested as well as promised: My Deprenyl log.

I dissolved a 5mg pill in a graded shaker which now stands in my fridge. I've been taking the dose with my breakfast to increase bioavailability . I'm plan on being very cautious (some might say overly cautious) with Deprenyl so you won't be seeing any silly "15mg + a bucket of PEA"-stunts here.

Well, I'm on my third day of very very low doses now without prominent effects.

So far:
Day 1: 0.15mg
Day 2: 0.35mg
Day 3: 0.35mg

Summary after three days: I don't think it has had that much effect on me so far.

Before you all scream "MOAR!": I'll do this slowly and see if I get any positive results with a dose below 2.5mg/day, I probably won't overstep that because of safety concerns I've discussed in other threads. Others such as Pike has also mentioned side effects during the first week which then went away and by gradually stepping up the dose I hope to minimize the initial side effects.

I've been feeling sleepy after taking it every time but that could just be that my sleeping pattern is very off to start with. External stressful events and a really bad baseline sleeping pattern somewhat limits my ability to draw any conclusions I've had daytime sleepiness and a hint of nervousness which doesn't really say that much since I probably would have felt that way without Deprenyl too.

I might try another 0.35mg now to see if it's actually the Deprenyl which induces the sleepiness, if so I might be able to get to bed on time. I feel wide awake so it should be hard for me to sleep right now. I'll step it up to 0.7mg tomorrow to see what happens.

Deprenyl seems very much a gamble when it comes to how you respond, some people report effects or side effects after taking less than 0.5mg while others can eat the pills like candy. Some people get all side effects while other get all the good stuff. People seem to respond quite differently to it too; some get alert while others get sleepy. Some get happy while others get angry and so on. A log is probably a good idea to monitor the psychological effects, even if it's very subjective.

Because of the many interactions Deprenyl has on other supplements I'll briefly list what other stuff I'm taking: Piracetam, ALCAR and omega3. Also I've been eating lots of turemic but I'm considering cutting down on that because of the MAOI-effects of curcumin, this might be overly paranoid though and I'd welcome opinions on this matter. No coffee or alcohol, perhaps a modest bite of chocolate sometimes.

The effects I'm hoping for are mainly psychological in the form of motivation and perhaps a mildly antidepressant effect due to increased dopamine. Placebo or not doesn't really matter to me personally, I want to get a lot of stuff done.

Any opinions/wisdoms/questions regarding this are welcome.

Edited by aLurker, 24 July 2010 - 07:30 PM.

[Thorsten3]

As requested as well as promised: My Deprenyl log.

I dissolved a 5mg pill in a graded shaker which now stands in my fridge. I've been taking the dose with my breakfast to increase bioavailability . I'm plan on being very cautious (some might say overly cautious) with Deprenyl so you won't be seeing any silly "15mg + a bucket of PEA"-stunts here.

Well, I'm on my third day of very very low doses now without prominent effects.

So far:
Day 1: 0.15mg
Day 2: 0.35mg
Day 3: 0.35mg

Summary after three days: I don't think it has had that much effect on me so far.

Before you all scream "MOAR!": I'll do this slowly and see if I get any positive results with a dose below 2.5mg/day, I probably won't overstep that because of safety concerns I've discussed in other threads. Others such as Pike has also mentioned side effects during the first week which then went away and by gradually stepping up the dose I hope to minimize the initial side effects.

I've been feeling sleepy after taking it every time but that could just be that my sleeping pattern is very off to start with. External stressful events and a really bad baseline sleeping pattern somewhat limits my ability to draw any conclusions I've had daytime sleepiness and a hint of nervousness which doesn't really say that much since I probably would have felt that way without Deprenyl too.

I might try another 0.35mg now to see if it's actually the Deprenyl which induces the sleepiness, if so I might be able to get to bed on time. I feel wide awake so it should be hard for me to sleep right now. I'll step it up to 0.7mg tomorrow to see what happens.

Deprenyl seems very much a gamble when it comes to how you respond, some people report effects or side effects after taking less than 0.5mg while others can eat the pills like candy. Some people get all side effects while other get all the good stuff. People seem to respond quite differently to it too; some get alert while others get sleepy. Some get happy while others get angry and so on. A log is probably a good idea to monitor the psychological effects, even if it's very subjective.

Because of the many interactions Deprenyl has on other supplements I'll briefly list what other stuff I'm taking: Piracetam, ALCAR and omega3. Also I've been eating lots of turemic but I'm considering cutting down on that because of the MAOI-effects of curcumin, this might be overly paranoid though and I'd welcome opinions on this matter. No coffee or alcohol, perhaps a modest bite of chocolate sometimes.

The effects I'm hoping for are mainly psychological in the form of motivation and perhaps a mildly antidepressant effect due to increased dopamine. Placebo or not doesn't really matter to me personally, I want to get a lot of stuff done.

Any opinions/wisdoms/questions regarding this are welcome.

Hey I'm considering starting low dose deprenyl myself. I too would only be interested in taking this for life extension purposes (maybe 1mg 3 times per week). I eat cacao every other day so this could also provide a cool boost (although wouldn't be anything crazy as PEA content wouldn't be as high as these supplements you buy).
I haven't really decided though. If I was to do it, it would be purely for the life extension properties. Therefore it would make sense to take this for the rest of my life. That's quite a scary thought for me. It's one thing taking fish oil forever but buying an internet drug for the rest of my life doesn't appeal to me. I'm happy taking stuff which gets me through the next few months/years which gets me to where I want to be - but long term I want to rely on the basics more (nutrition, exercise and life experiences).
Would this be a long term thing for you?

[chrono]

Well, I hope it works out. I'll be curious to see if you get any positive effects at a low dosage. How high do you think you might go? 5mg was my target dose, but as we said, it's a little questionable in terms of life extension over the long term.

Also, I think it might take a good long while for some of the effects to kick in. I remember Animal mentioning that it took like 6 weeks for the psychological effects to manifest noticeably. So this might make titrating dosage on a weekly basis difficult.

@Thorsten: We had some good discussions in this thread about dosage considerations for life extension purposes. 3mg/week is a pretty good bet, I think. Also remember that new options will probably become available at an increasing rate, so what makes sense now might not be necessary forever, but still might do some good.

Edited by chrono, 24 July 2010 - 10:18 PM.

[425runner]

I've been taking Deprenyl 5 mg/day on and off and it's interesting you mentioned the sleepiness issue. Today, I had 2.5 mg with lunch and felt very sleepy afterwards - had to take a nap. It works great when combined with PEA but not every day....

[aLurker]

Thoren: Yes, this would very much be a long-term thing for me. I like useful habits and prefer non-cyclical supplements which show promise when it comes to long-term chronic usage.

Chrono: Well according to our discussions in the thread you linked to I feel that ~2.5mg is a reasonable roof considering safe chronic dosage so I might experiment with anything from 0.1mg to 2.5mg. If I take anything higher than this it is merely to try how it affects me short term (for the lulz) and not something I'd consider for chronic usage unless the effects are miraculous (water Helen, waaater... lalala). My target dosage for long-term chronic usage is on the lower side of 1mg since what Dr. Knoll recommended is 1 mg/day indefinitely from sexual maturity and I plan on chronic usage at least until something with similar effects replaces Deprenyl (BPAP needs MOAR science!).

425runner: Yeah I've had to take a nap after every single time I took Deprenyl so far (four times). I won't be taking any PEA; I'm sure it feels wonderful but I'm not searching for any drug-induced euphoria because I fear it might negatively affect my neurochemistry by down-regulating receptors etc. This might affect long-term effectiveness which is my main priority here. I might try a few squares of dark chocolate occasionally though.

Night between day 3 and day 4:
As previously stated I took a 0.35mg dose with some food before bedtime. I got the munchies afterwards and ate some cookies and felt like taking a nap afterwards. So far Deprenyl is a great sleeping aid, which I mean in the best way possible. The only downside is that I only slept for like five hours and I awoke so wide awake sleeping in isn't really an option (this coming from someone notoriously hard to wake up in the morning). I think I'll be taking my Deprenyl before going to bed instead and see if that works out better. I've been having real trouble getting to bed before 2 am this summer and Deprenyl is the only thing which has made me go to sleep before midnight so I guess that's a good thing. I'll try double the dose, 0.7mg, before going to bed tonight hoping it will make me sleep longer rather than make me even more alert when waking up or worse, waking me even earlier.

Deprenyl might also make me crave sugar: I've been eating doughnuts and cookies after taking it although this could merely be me getting addicted to sugar and using my drug habit (Deprenyl) as an excuse for my lack of self-discipline. The jury is still out on this one but I'll be keeping my eyes open to conclude whether it gives me the munchies or not.

I've heard reports that Deprenyl might make sleepier when you begin taking it so I'll try taking it as a sleeping aid until the effect wears off.

I'll keep my eyes open for other reported side effects on Deprenyl such as anger too. For the record I'll just state that I basically never get angry nowadays so my baseline is very low. I might get annoyed sometimes and respond with snarly sarcasm but such contempt is basically the closest I get to anger.

This thread discusses Deprenyl-induced sleepiness but also how Deprenyl combined with racetams although I must admit the science (post 26&28) is a bit over my head at the moment. Anyone care to speculate how Piracetam might interact with Deprenyl?

Edited by aLurker, 25 July 2010 - 04:08 AM.

[Thorsten3]

Well, I hope it works out. I'll be curious to see if you get any positive effects at a low dosage. How high do you think you might go? 5mg was my target dose, but as we said, it's a little questionable in terms of life extension over the long term.

Also, I think it might take a good long while for some of the effects to kick in. I remember Animal mentioning that it took like 6 weeks for the psychological effects to manifest noticeably. So this might make titrating dosage on a weekly basis difficult.

@Thorsten: We had some good discussions in this thread about dosage considerations for life extension purposes. 3mg/week is a pretty good bet, I think. Also remember that new options will probably become available at an increasing rate, so what makes sense now might not be necessary forever, but still might do some good.

Interesting thread I wasn't aware of it, thanks for the link Chrono

[aLurker]

Day 4:
I had some chili nuts and took 0.7mg Deprenyl at ~23:30, went to bed at 1 am. Slept really good!
Seems to work fine as a sleeping aid so far although my sleep wasn't bad before and I haven't really noticed much of anything else. Anecdotally it might take a while before the effects become apparent and Deprenyl might not make me sleepy then. I'll continue to take 0.7mg with a snack an hour or two before bedtime for now.

[Animal]

Day 4:
I had some chili nuts and took 0.7mg Deprenyl at ~23:30, went to bed at 1 am. Slept really good!
Seems to work fine as a sleeping aid so far although my sleep wasn't bad before and I haven't really noticed much of anything else. Anecdotally it might take a while before the effects become apparent and Deprenyl might not make me sleepy then. I'll continue to take 0.7mg with a snack an hour or two before bedtime for now.

Like Chrono mentioned it will take a long period of consistent dosing for you to experience any noticeable psychological effects, if you even do at such low doses.

[aLurker]

Also, I think it might take a good long while for some of the effects to kick in. I remember Animal mentioning that it took like 6 weeks for the psychological effects to manifest noticeably. So this might make titrating dosage on a weekly basis difficult.

Why would titrating dosage on a weekly basis be difficult? It's just dissolving pills into a measured amount of water, not really rocket surgery.

I can however see a few difficulties with my way of doing this. By using a low dose (0.7mg/day) it might not be easy to notice any effects which might be more pronounced at higher dosages. If I gradually step it up to 2.5 or similar it might be harder to notice any change than if I go from 0.7mg directly to 2.5mg.

Effects within the day you take it can be explained by quickly achieved MAOI-B inhibition and the metabolites of Deprenyl (desmethylselegiline, levomethamphetamine and levoamphetamine). When you consider drugs which makes you sleepy, the first thing that comes to mind certainly isn't meth.

The only explanation I've read so far is that the MAOI effects raises serotonin which raises melatonin which makes me sleepy. No real source and the explanation doesn't seem to make much sense to me. I thought that MAO-A was responsible for serotonin and melatonin to a much larger extent than MAO-B and I'm taking doses way way lower than anything which should mess with MAO-A (doses >10mg does this). Lingering phenylethylamine because of inhibition of MAO-B shouldn't make me sleepy. Another problem with this theory is that the inhibition of MAO-B is irreversible and it takes a lot of time for the body to adapt to baseline again (2+ weeks) so why should a dose the day after I've already taken it make such a difference? I still don't really get why I get sleepy. Could it be the desmethylselegiline? Feel free to educate me in the matter since I have no clue.

However I can reconcile the idea that it messes somewhat with my neurotransmitter levels and it will probably take a while before these are reconfigured (up-regulation/down-regulation/whatever) by my body into something more sustainable (hopefully involving more dopamine), hence the weeks before the full psychological effects. Other explanations why it will take weeks are also welcome.

[chrono]

Also, I think it might take a good long while for some of the effects to kick in. I remember Animal mentioning that it took like 6 weeks for the psychological effects to manifest noticeably. So this might make titrating dosage on a weekly basis difficult.

Why would titrating dosage on a weekly basis be difficult? It's just dissolving pills into a measured amount of water, not really rocket surgery.

Sorry, I should have been clearer about which titration I was talking about. All I meant was that, if it takes many weeks to a month for some of the effects to manifest or level out, then it might be hard to judge how effective a dose is unless you give it at least a few weeks.

[aLurker]

Yeah that's what I thought you meant, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any angles here so thank you for clarifying. I'm not really the patient kind of guy when it comes to noticeable progress. If I don't have any effects or side effects in the next few days I might go from 0.7 mg to 1 mg/day, although I'll try to hold on for now.

[Animal]

Yeah that's what I thought you meant, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any angles here so thank you for clarifying. I'm not really the patient kind of guy when it comes to noticeable progress. If I don't have any effects or side effects in the next few days I might go from 0.7 mg to 1 mg/day, although I'll try to hold on for now.

Kick it up to 10mg a day, then when the effects become noticeable try titrating downward. If you're impatient this is the best way to do it, otherwise it'll take months for you to eventually titrate to an effective dose.

[aLurker]

Yeah that's what I thought you meant, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any angles here so thank you for clarifying. I'm not really the patient kind of guy when it comes to noticeable progress. If I don't have any effects or side effects in the next few days I might go from 0.7 mg to 1 mg/day, although I'll try to hold on for now.

Kick it up to 10mg a day, then when the effects become noticeable try titrating downward. If you're impatient this is the best way to do it, otherwise it'll take months for you to eventually titrate to an effective dose.

You're the devil on my shoulder and I like it. Yeah increasing the dose drastically has a couple of upsides: I'll know the effects sooner, I'll know exactly how I react to a therapeutic dose and it will be way easier to notice the effects because of the contrast.

The downsides are: I probably won't want to sustain that dose because of health risks, higher risk of side effects, a high dose might affect me differently than a low dose so perhaps I'm closer to my personal sweet spot now than if I go downwards from a higher dose although there is no way of telling and I have a limited supply of pills (50) and since I'm a cheap bastard I want them to last as long as possible (preferably at least until new year).

But your point remains valid and I will seriously consider kicking it up a notch and titrate downward instead.

[The Likud Is Behind It]

Good stuff. I settled on 2 drops every week. It's still effective.

[chrono]

I also recall reading that a lower dosage might be possible after this break-in period, at least with regard to the MAOI effects—so a downward titration might make more sense in this case anyway. Animal's idea might be the way to go, but maybe just do 5mg? Much closer to your sustainable target dose. If it works out, you could reduce the dose slowly and see if the positive effects remain.

[Animal]

I would just like to add that I take 10mg per day and this has been the sweet spot for me in terms of effects, including motivation, energy, mild antidepressant action and potentiation of stimulants. I started at 5mg per day, and upon increasing the dosage to 10mg I definitely noticed an increase in general anger and irritability for a couple of weeks. I hate to say it but I kind of enjoyed this side effect, because it also came with an enjoyable feeling of power. Yes, I'm perverse.

LoL, my sister sometimes invites her self round my house and she'll never try to change the TV channel again while I'm watching something!

[aLurker]

Good stuff. I settled on 2 drops every week. It's still effective.

That's the lowest dose I've heard of yet. What are the effects? How do you know it is effective and how did you settle on that dose?

Day 5.
Went to bed early after taking 0.7mg, woke up after three hours because of noise outside and found it very hard to go back to sleep.

Day 6.
Had to take two naps during the day to make up for lost sleep.
I took 0.7mg at night and didn't really notice the sleepy effect I've gotten before, maybe it was all in my head, or maybe I'm getting used to it. I stayed up way too late.

Day 7
I woke up late and I've already taken a nap. The naps are getting annoying. Although I must say I'm feeling very clear and refreshed afterwards and I seem to have much less trouble getting out of bed than before I started taking supps. I don't feel fatigued, I just feel like I have to have my daily nap to work properly.

I've noticed that I wake up with some serious wood after my naps and when I awake in the morning. Baseline was good though so it's hard to tell if this is a true improvement.

I've actually gotten more stuff done these last few days, I can't say I can feel any clear subjective change in my intrinsic motivation yet though.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the naps, I'd rather stay awake and get stuff done than sleep even more. They could be a result of my bad sleeping habits rather then the Deprenyl. I might start drinking a cup of tea or some chocolate in the morning. Piracetam seemed to potentate the effects of tea and Deprenyl should make it even more noticeable. A low dose of caffeine once per day might minimize the caffeine tolerance although I somehow doubt it, might be effective for long enough to help me get through the first couple of weeks with Deprenyl without naps though. More drugs might not be the answer though, especially since I react badly to caffeine and I don't want to pollute this experience.

So bottom line is that like before it's still hard to tell anything for sure. I'm still considering upping the dosage to 2.5 or 5mg just for a few days to see what happens.

Edited by aLurker, 28 July 2010 - 04:01 PM.

[425runner]

I have to agree with Animal. Took 5 mg yesterday and felt on top of the world! Very good feeling, indeed.


I would just like to add that I take 10mg per day and this has been the sweet spot for me in terms of effects, including motivation, energy, mild antidepressant action and potentiation of stimulants. I started at 5mg per day, and upon increasing the dosage to 10mg I definitely noticed an increase in general anger and irritability for a couple of weeks. I hate to say it but I kind of enjoyed this side effect, because it also came with an enjoyable feeling of power. Yes, I'm perverse.

LoL, my sister sometimes invites her self round my house and she'll never try to change the TV channel again while I'm watching something!
[/quote]

[aLurker]

Day 7 cont.
Well Deprenyl doesn't appear make me sleepy. At least not now if it ever did. I took 1 mg yesterday without any apparent effect and stayed up way too late, if anything I was more alert but that could also be explained by the two naps I had during the day.

Day 8 (today)
So I kicked it up to 3 mg and took it with my lunch today. I'm not feeling tired and I'll probably try to skip my daily nap today. Can't say I feel all that different so far but it's only been a couple of hours since I took the Deprenyl. I'll keep you posted.

[aLurker]

Ok, I feel pretty awesome actually and I considered editing the last post just as I wrote it. Though I must admit to eating two squares of 86% cocoa dark chocolate which might have influenced my mood. I'm feeling great, no sign of fatigue, totally clear-headed without any naps today and in a great mood. I just came back from a meeting and I really enjoyed just hanging out and joking around with people. The main improvement so far is definitely my mood which seems noticeably improved right now.

Some muscle head nudged me on the head from behind with a bag of marshmallows in the grocery store when I was spacing out trying to choose tomato sauce. I felt annoyed but not really more than I would have usually or what I think was called for, I just said "very mature" sarcastically and he went on his way with his friends, one of which made excuses for his behaviour. From the lingering smell I might conclude they were drunk. I only bring this up since some have reported rage on very low doses on Deprenyl. Doesn't seem to be any problem for me although I'm really laid-back to begin with and some impulsiveness and assertiveness could actually be beneficial for me. I don't ever get really angry but I sometimes get annoyed and reply with sarcasm so I'll keep an eye out for that even though sarcasm isn't necessarily a bad thing. Deprenyl is one of the few drugs which has shown some form of effectiveness against ADD symptoms without impairing impulsiveness which is a good thing for me personally. I could use some impulsiveness since I'm overly analytical and perhaps too careful sometimes when I should just do stuff instead of plan and think about it. Like choosing tomato sauce.

I think I'll take Deprenyl with my breakfast from now on since it seems to give me more energy now judging from the last two doses. Deprenyl seems to make me very happy. When I listen to good music I feel like dancing spontaneously and I seem to appreciate social interactions more than before, the last meeting with mostly the same people I struggled to stay awake while now I was joking around and enjoyed their company. I might get similar effects from lower doses too (1 mg seemed to help energy-wise yesterday and might have elevated my mood too but it was hard to tell since I was alone in my room then) but I'll probably wait until I step the dose downward since I've experienced no side effects whatsoever yet, only good things.

Edited by aLurker, 29 July 2010 - 07:04 PM.

[khakiman]

well i might have to try 5mg since i usually only take 2.5mg every other day.

[aLurker]

well i might have to try 5mg since i usually only take 2.5mg every other day.

Please keep us posted regarding which effects different doses have on you.

Keeping the dose below 2.5mg per day like you are doing right now is probably the wise and responsible way to take Deprenyl because of what we've discussed earlier. Though I suppose you are temporarily trying a higher dose out of curiosity like I am. Some, like Animal, might value the present effects more than a hypothetical scenario based on animal studies. If I feel that a questionable dose gives me a huge positive effect compared to a probably safer dose... I'll seriously have to think about it myself. I tend to err on the side of caution in general though but I'll overstep the boundaries of what I personally consider a safe chronic dose just to have a glance at the potential effects of Deprenyl. I mean in the short term Deprenyl has been shown to be safe in quite high doses, way more than 10mg per day. Long-term chronic dose and it's effects on human lifespan is another matter though.

[aLurker]

Day 8 (cont).
The 3 mg in the morning was enough too keep me awake and in a good mood all day, I didn't take a nap and went to bed way too late.

Day 9.
Woke up late.
I stepped it up to 5mg, like with 3mg I had elevated mood throughout the day. 5mg might have made me a little more "wired" than 3mg, not sure whether this is good or bad. Like yesterday I didn't really feel I needed a nap.

No subjectively noticeable change in motivation yet, maybe it has increased the feeling that I should do stuff and keep myself busy with something but when it comes to actually studying I feel about as reluctant as before. Looking at what I've done while on Deprenyl I've actually got some work done although not as much as I should have and it might just have been deadlines approaching that made me do it. I still don't really feel any sense of accomplishment when I'm studying, something I hoped Deprenyl might help me with. Perhaps wishful thinking and more of a mission for psychology/CBT but I'm happy with the other benefits of Deprenyl so far.

On the bright side: my mood seems improved, I feel sharp and I have lots of energy. Doing the dishes while listening to music has become a flow activity. It might have increased my flow when it comes to physical activities in general, even keyboard-typing seems more effortless and faster. Not sure about mental activities since I haven't done that much studying as I mentioned. The little I've done also went smoothly though. Any others who have noticed an influence on flow while taking Deprenyl?

I doubt 5 mg is needed to have these effects on energy and mood on me, 3 mg gave roughly the same effects and hopefully even 1 mg would do it. I might stay on 5 mg for a couple of more days to see if I notice any additional effects soon, otherwise I might start to step it down to something I find a little more sustainable long-term.

[aLurker]

Day 10.
5mg, Still has great effects on my mood and energy(both mental and physical). Wouldn't say it's done much for motivation to study which is the effect I'm really after though expecting to find this in a pill might be reaching for it. Might have increased my concentration even further but that could be the Piracetam I'm already on still improving. I feel really alert in the morning when I've gotten out of the bed which is a good and rare thing for me. I might be a little more tense on this dose though, stiff shoulders and I find it harder to really relax and let go, like my mind is always awake unless I'm sleeping.

[aLurker]

We can all agree that it's about time I updated this. I have some hand scribbled notes from each day I'll write here.

Day 11, 3mg
Got some stuff done. I've been quite motivated when it comes to exercise and I've had the best training sessions in months!

Day 12, 3mg
Got a few things in order. I've caught myself more often with a friendly smile on my face. Energy and mood continues to be up from baseline.

Day 13, 1.5mg
Took a nap this day. Probably could have skipped it though. I had a slight headache which went away with dinner, probably from dehydration or the fact that I'm out of eggs and Piracetam might crave some choline. I've been eating ~150g of almonds which might contain tyramine so that could also be an issue although it shouldn't because the highest dose I've taken so far is 5mg in one day, monitoring how I feel after eating them in the future though. Dehydration is probably the most likely cause, I've been drinking a lot more recently and going to the bathroom more often also. I don't know if this is related to Deprenyl though but it seems likely.

Day 14, 3mg
Had a nap, eating a large lunch might make me sleepier than usual. The times I've taken a nap it's always been after eating quite a large meal. A large meal means I can wait longer until the next one. I also find it increasingly easy to follow a strict diet without snacks. I've been leaning towards something quite CR-inspired lately. I've basically given up processed sugar and fast carbs entirely and my cravings for snacks aren't all that bad.

Day 15, 2mg
No nap, feel great although I haven't been all that productive. My exercise and diet is really awesome right now though. It hasn't been this good in months, perhaps years.

Yeah I know my dosing have been kind of erratic, no real logic behind it really except laziness and perhaps curiosity. Might make an effort to make it more consistent.
Deprenyl is treating me good so far and overall I like it because of the increases in energy and mood. Perhaps also a slight increase in flow and motivation in certain areas. Since starting Deprenyl I've got some of my economy in order, my dietary discipline is better and I haven't exercised this much in months or perhaps years. My motivation to study isn't that much better though but there might be some avoidance issues there and hopefully Deprenyl hasn't reached its maximum effect yet.

I've noticed one potential side effect now though, two nights when I've been in my bed trying to sleep I've noticed what might be described as "background static", not ringing in my ear as some have reported but very feint static like when you've got the volume too high on your speakers without any music on. Questionable if it's even worth to mention it but it's the closest to a side effect I've noticed so far and I want to write it down so I don't forget it myself.

To do list:
Be more consistent with the doses.
Go to bed earlier and get my sleep cycle in order. I have a bad habit of eating late at night which might be counter-productive according to this article.
Try smaller meals and see if big meals make me sleepy.
Study more or at least do some scored cognitive performance tests on a continuous basis.

Edited by aLurker, 05 August 2010 - 10:09 PM.

[chrono]

Thanks for keeping your log going, though you're making me a little jealous.

Have you noticed anything when combining with piracetam or ALCAR? Change in effect of any of the three, or any synergy?

It sounds like it's having positive effects on mood, motivation and attention (to differing degrees). But does it do anything to your 'headspace'? i.e. do your texture of consciousness and thought patterns feel different than normal? Or do you just feel exactly like yourself in a good mood?

I guess that's a little difficult to explain, but it's one of my biggest criteria for this type of medication. For instance, with SSRIs, my mood was ostensibly enhanced (if I were to represent it like a sine wave, it would be raised up), but it made me feel very unlike myself. Reactions were all off, wasn't feeling the emotions I should have been, and it didn't feel very much like being me. I think another person here told me that it was quite transparent, but I'm curious what you think.

[aLurker]

Headspace seems pretty much unaffected so far in my opinion.

I've caught myself speaking quite fast a couple of times and I've also "spaced out" a couple of times but I do these things sometimes without any supplements too. Getting caught in "what if" scenarios playing out in my head isn't really that rare with me although I try to catch myself doing it mostly to turn them into positive visualizations which might actually be productive. I'm a daydreaming natural.

To answer your question a little bit more straightforwardly I feel like I'm myself. I haven't taken any other meds against depression so I'm really not qualified to compare Deprenyl to them. Deprenyl hasn't changed my perception or headspace noticeably. A few old friends are away during the summer so perhaps when they come back they'll comment on whether or not I act differently on the stuff I'm taking. In my own opinion it is an improvement. Being generally happier and a little more positive might strike others as being different than usual although that is really hard to tell.

Hopefully it is like when I'm in a good mood normally, just more often than usual.

The only thing I could compare it to is Rhodiola which also affected my mood and motivation. Rhodiola also seemed to change my perception of the world around me more than Deprenyl, for instance colours in nature seemed unusually bright sometimes.

Whether Deprenyl affects any other supplements is really hard to tell. I take most with my first meal of the day. Piracetam and ALCAR while I'm preparing the meal and then the Deprenyl in whatever I drink while eating.

I do take just Piracetam and ALCAR before dinner too and they give me the usual effects, perhaps a slight increase in focus but it is impossible to tell if this if from the Deprenyl itself or from potentiating Piracetam/ALCAR. I'll consider trying other doses of them later when everything has stabilized, probably a slightly lower dose of Piracetam if anything just to avoid thought-loops and excessive focus on details although I don't feel that's really a problem right now. Piracetam and ALCAR stills seems to work just fine. I kind of regret I never tried ALCAR without any Piracetam, ALCAR just seemed to improve what Piracetam did for me and added a slight bit of energy.

I've been avoiding alcohol and caffeine. I've had an occasional square of 86% dark chocolate which might simulate me slightly although it is hard to tell. I really don't feel like I need any more energy. My diet is excellent, my physique too and I'm taking three different things all of which seem to improve both my physical and mental energy. If anything I've got an excess of energy which might explain all the exercise. It is the only way to get an outlet for all that energy since I'm avoiding the studies I 'should' be doing. It also makes it really hard to get to bed on time. I sleep fine when I finally go to bed though and if anything it is easier to get out of bed.

[aLurker]

Day 16. 2.5mg
I ate >100g of almonds and raisins, my heart might have beaten harder although it could be psychosomatic since I know they both contain a lot of tyramine. The headache afterwards somewhat convinced me eating such excessive amounts is a bad idea even though my dose is relatively low. Perhaps very mild reactions can occur even on lower doses if you are sensitive although it might just have been me being overly nervous about the possibility.

My sleeping habits are still FUBAR (as usual during the summers). I went to bed on time for once but awoke after just a few hours of sleep feeling too alert to go back to sleep.

Day 17. 2.5mg
Still no real motivation to do any studies, which is why I got Deprenyl in the first place. Studying still feels boring even though I do it quite well the short periods I can bare to force myself. I'll probably force myself to do study more soon though since my deadlines are approaching. I certainly have the mental energy and focus to actually study but my mental issues are still blocking me. Some say Deprenyl takes more than just two weeks to fully manifest its strengths in this area though so I remain hopeful it will do the same thing for my more intellectual pursuits as it has done for my motivation and discipline when it comes to diet and exercise.

I've got lots of physical energy too which gives me a huge drive to exercise. It's almost like I have to do it, in fact I'm thinking of it right now. I still don't get any runners high or euphoria from exercise though even though my drive and motivation is way up. It's like I have to get some outlet for the excess energy or else I'll explode. Fun-fact: Deprenyl busts you for doping in sports.

I drank a cup of white tea for my sore throat, inflamed gums and general health, I don't feel any real side effects from the tea which is a good thing (no nervousness or jitters). I would get decaf but they had ok white tea here locally ridiculously cheap so I couldn't resist. Although I'll probably skip my second dose of Piracetam and ALCAR today just to calm me down since they also stimulate me. I still feel like I'm really alert all the time, I'm not nervous but I'm somewhat physically tense in my body. I have to really focus if I want to relax. Going to sleep isn't really a problem when I try though so hopefully I'll try early this night too and actually stay asleep all night unlike yesterday. I have to go do some pull-ups now.

[Animal]

You can't expect deprenyl to address specific motivational problems, it's more general then that. It seems you have psychological issues related to academia rather then any sort of neurological deficit. If studying is that boring that you're utterly avoidant of it then I would recommend you look at changing courses or even vocation rather then trying to compensate with medication.

[aLurker]

Animal I get your point and you are wise to make it since my remarks might be interpreted as I'm hoping for the motivation to do something I really don't want to do. I'm not hoping for Deprenyl to address specific motivational problems, I'm hoping for the general motivation to get my ass in gear and actually do the things which interest me instead of just planning and thinking about them. I've got avoidance issues when it comes to actually doing stuff in general and I'm also looking into other ways of going about this since it is psychological in nature and psychotherapy offers some insights too. Regarding my studies the few courses I've got left and find boring are not directly related to my vocation yet they are required for my degree. I rather enjoy academia actually, mostly since I can get good results with minuscule effort which sadly has contributed to my laziness and lack of discipline.

Alright, back the log...

I think the last few days went something like this, although I've been way too lazy to make any proper notes:

Day 18 2mg
Went to bed early, woke up after two hours, had to sleep all morning.

Day 19 2mg
After going to bed way to late all summer I decided to skip the ALCAR and Piracetam for a day. I actually felt more motivated in the morning although I was slightly annoyed at some people and lacked patience. I wonder if the Piracetam makes me more mellow. Either this was due to lack of sleep or lack of Piracetam. I might try a day with Dep+ALCAR only to note the difference. Got some herbal tea to help me sleep.

Day 20 1mg
Lowered to 1mg to see if it might get me to sleep during the night. Also got me some Magnesium citrate, it was the only local OTC thing which might help me sleep and doesn't seems to interact with Deprenyl. The herbal tea I got might be more problematic since it contains Passion flower. Got to bed at 1:30 am, which actually is quite ok although I didn't fall asleep until half an hour or so later.

Day 21 1mg
Woke up at 10 something which actually is the most reasonable time in weeks so that's really good. Mood, energy, sociability and cognition seem great. I did have a nap at 3 p.m. although the short amount of sleep makes me think it was warranted and I've felt very awake ever since. Motivation and general productivity still iffy.

General thoughts right now:
Piracetam might, just might, take the edge of negative emotions and impair my motivation slightly. Very hard to tell since I'm mostly basing this on the ONLY day I was without Piracetam, Day 19, a day I was also quite sleep deprived. I'll test this hypothesis some day by holding off my Piracetam dose and keep an eye out regarding motivation, patience and how annoyed I feel by stupidity. Piracetam makes me mentally calmer and more focused although physically more tense in my shoulders if I take too much. Some people here has mentioned that Deprenyl makes them into a take-no-prisoners asshole. I hope Deprenyl gives me more of this if I skip the Piracetam.

I've also got the following in the mail from iherb: vitamin K complex by LEF and some Xylitol. This is mainly for dental health but I'll wait a day or two before I start the vitamin K since I want to see the effects of the magnesium first.

My right eye has been twitching slightly at least once or twice a day since a few days before I added ALCAR to my Piracetam. Paradoxically I'm pretty sure Piracetam is a medication against muscle twitches and no-one has ever reported this as a side effect. This has happened to me in past with too much coffee/stress but has stopped after a day or two. It has been really benign to the point I didn't think it was worth mentioning. The fact that it hasn't stopped and still happens a couple of times per day makes me feel like it warrants a mention now though. I started the magnesium for three reasons: to make the twitching stop entirely, to improve mood even further and to aid sleep without interacting with the Deprenyl.

I'll probably take this tomorrow:
1 mg Deprenyl + ALCAR + Piracetam, stay the course and see if the magnesium helps anything. I'll also try the plan the day out a little bit better than usual since this might improve discipline and purpose. Down the line I'll try a day without Piracetam though.

I mean I feel really good right now: Alert, focused (on the wrong things though, like reading studies about nootropics) and in a rock stable good mood yet I miss that burning feeling of drive which I got a brief glimpse of.

I continue to have no problems with exercise and a pretty strictly healthy diet, no cravings and I might actually be less hungry than usual.

Getting to sleep on time is still an issue for me. My sleep quality however is great when I do sleep. I have nice dreams like I usually do and I can remember them just fine if I decide to write them down, so no trouble there. Getting to sleep before midnight however poses more of a challenge. I also plan to order an additional supplement when I get my sleep in order, to reward myself :D