132 replies to this topic

[pinballwizard]

This is the first in a long string of Polls.

[bdnf]

Which nootropics do you take pinballwizard?

[algernon]

Good poll.
Perhaps when you reply to the poll you could also post why you voted as you did.
I voted more than subtle and positive.
I found my simple stack has helped at work with my new work load; writing reports and keeping up with multiple assignment. Remembering who I've call, when. did I follow through? did I pass on this information?.

The best thing I added was DMAE and TMG. Those after lunch meetings were so long and boring. I never though one could actually be bored to death.....
After lunch I always felt fatigued and spaced out, no energy. I get an immediate lift of mood, energy and spirit.

After working all day with abrasive, foul tempered a**holes I was drained and had no patience for the wife or baby; just sat in front of the TV and drank beer all evening.
The postings on this board has helped and in time when I find the right combination of and dosage of nootropics I will change my vote to "results are great"!

PS: Instead of spending money of beer, I now buy nootropics. Since adding DMAE,TMG last week, I actually found myself in the basement one evening cleaning all the storage crap off my weight lifting equipment and setting it up.

[scottl]

TMG is a nootropic??

[algernon]

Scottl:

Perhaps not in the true sense. Let the reader use discernment. My reason for adding TMG is it help the formation of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine (so I have read). Having a massive IQ does nothing for person if he has a shitty outlook on life. I thought lifting deperssion and increasing day time engery/concentration would be a good post.

[pinballwizard]

[/B]

Which nootropics do you take pinballwizard?

Below is my list. I got to say that a good cardio workout is the equivalent of many nootropics.

1. Deprenyl 1.25 mg AM (1mg is usually recommended however for healthy people my age of 30 years old. I can't cut the pill right though)
2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)
5. [thumb] [thumb] [thumb] Phosphatidyl Serine 100 mg AM & PM (supposedly this is very very safe and effective recommended from "Smart Candy" Book...and they are big critics of nootropics) ( Look at the chart. http://www.imminst.o...59&hl=serine&s= )
6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. (Aren't I supposed to take more than that, but I cant read Italian labels? Well, I would run out much quicker)
7. RALA 200 AM & PM
8. Picamilon 100 AM & 100 PM
9. Centrophenoxine 125 mg AM with food (this stuff tastes nasty, and I think makes me dizzy if I drink it with water, not sure at all though.)
10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM
13. Idebnone 45mg AM & PM
14. Creatine Monohydrate 1.5 teaspoons AM & PM (15 grams total) (The results are absolutely fantastic for weightlifting, and I won't lift without it!) (Some people get gas when they take it, but I have never had any changes)

I also take supplements that are available online or at a health store. I get my vitamins mostly from the Supernutrition Optipack but I am looking for something cheaper. Supernutrition is very potent thought! I also take Cognita which is a multi-chemical pill at GNC with some vitamins and things like ginko, and choline and huperzine. Lastly I drink energy first shakes with their product greenergy with grass and green tea and a whole list of things below. The totals for these things are below. I did not list all the vitamins, minerals and herbs because they are not very nootropic.

Some links for the products I buy
http://www.prolithic...s/optipack.html
http://shopping.nets...3/it.A/id.57/.f
http://tinyurl.com/5y4ms
There is another bottle for which I dont have a link called Cognita sold exclusively by GNC

Vitamins split in 3 seperate pills for Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner --this is from the Supernutrition Opti-Pack brand vitamins and Cognita brand pill (Cognita is available at GNC) (Supernutrition is probably available at a whole foods store)
15. Vitamin E 1200 IU split into three seperate dosages (keep the dosages consistent on vitamin E, your body does not like E changes)
16. Thiamin (B1) 200 MG split into three seperate dosages
17. Riboflavin (B2) 100 MG split into three seperate dosages
18. Niacin 400 mg (Sometime your face gets flushed for 20 minutes, like you are embarassed if you take too much, but it is harmless) split into three seperate dosages
19. Vitamin b-6 250 mg split into three seperate dosages
20. Folic Acid 1200 mcg split into three seperate dosages
21. B-12 1025 mcg split into three seperate dosages (my friend loves this for depression, but why not take a B-complex)
22. Phosphatidyl Choline (as soy lecithin) 250mg split into three seperate dosages
23. Siberian ginseng 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (Ginseng is a much better caffeine.. You dont feel like crap an hour later)
24. Milk Thistle 100mg split into 2 seperate dosages (hey it aint a nootropic, but it is good for the liver)
25. EPA 75mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita) (I have no idea what 25.-28 do but, it is in Cognita)
26. DHA 50 mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
27. Coenzyme q-10 10mg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
28. Huperzine A 100 mcg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)

29. Omega oil 3,6,9 1gram Breakfast, and Lunch split into 2 seperate dosages (it really helps my arthritus, it is a must for good health)
30. green tea extract (tea has been a medicinal beverage before human kind dating back 10s of thousands of years!) split into 2 seperate dosages (it is a powerful antioxidant and the Asians are right about this.)
31. Licorice root 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (I think this stuff calms you down)
32. Ginko Biloba 150mg split into 3 seperate dosages (I get a head throb taking this even by itself. Dont take it too late.)

Changes I am considering
Nootropi wants me to ramp up my Alpha-GPC to 1gram twice daily but I have not capped them yet.
At the end of the month, I may considering increasing the -cetams at least to experiment
I want to stop the (33.) nicorette gum, but it is a little addictive. It has been proven to prevent Alzheimers and increase memory and concenration and it does not cause heart disease or cancer. I don't recommend it because it is highly addictive still. I was chewing it prior to any nootropic regimen. What is really wierd is that in my short experience, I have found nicotine to be more addictive with the nootropics. I fiend it. There is something pharmacologically going on for sure.
I drink (34.)caffeine worth about 1.5 cups of coffee a day... I would like to decrease it or substitute it with ginseng because I feel better with ginseng than ordinary caffeine. I was drinking it prior toany nootropic regimen.
I would like to try aricept and modfanil when I can schedule an appointment with a neurologist. I am a little uneasy about the modafanil because it is a new drug. I would take it for ADD.

Is this too much?
Not really. The supernutrition vitamins are used be the US olympic wieghtlifting team. I work out a lot. Make sure you get the stuff without the iron, because that stuff you can OD on quite easily. Vitamins Greenergy was recommended by a nutritionist that helps olympic athletes. With Creatine, you should keep the dosages consistent, in very very rare cases, there is kidney failure being reported...But that is anecdotal and not proven yet. Creatine has been used for decades and it is probably the most popular supplement in GNC, but you should also cycle off of creatine as directed. I was taking omegas to beat the heart disease that runs in my family. I think the worst thing is melotonin for sleep, I think it is too unatural and your body does not have that much in it for sleeping than even the smallest doses. I lack clarity in the morning, I think because of it, or it is correllated with my stress levels. (I am going to try to limit myself to once a week and maybe start taking yoga instead. It will be a tough lifstyle change.) Dont get me wrong melotonin is great for people who take it rarely. It is the best natural product on the market out there. But it is not a sollution to the high stress caused chronic insomnia. I suppose you are going to tell me to quit cafeine, nicotine and melotonin at the same time and everything will be fine....I know... I know... in time...in time.

I voted good on my nootropics, but it has only been like 16 days. So, I will most likely change my vote to great.

How I decided to choose this stack
I read a lot on these boards. I liked Nootropi's stack and it seemed to match with my research. I knew he would reply quickly if Ihad any questions, and that he really liked his results. I also wanted to take a stack from the very beginning but it is probably better to ease in slowly to figure out what might be negatively affecting you. Immediate stacking is not a good idea at all. I thought that Nootropi's stack on a post months ago was good. His stack has since then changed. We all think that our brain chemistry and health is different, so you have to find out for yourself.

If you guys have any suggestions of additions particularly for those with a lot of stress or ADD or short-term memory, please tell me. Criticism is also welcome. Nootropi, do you have anything to add?

Pinballwizard

[humanesque]

Very good Poll there, PinBall.......That's a heady list of nootropics. Looking forward to more of your posts.

HumanEsque

[bdnf]

Wow! I wasn't expecting such an extensive response to my question. Many thanks [thumb]

[nootropi]

Nootropi, do you have anything to add?

No, nothing to add at all. I strongly encourage people NOT to mimic my stack drug for drug, dose for dose. Every individual has different neurochemistry.

It takes creative thinking to come up with a perfect stack for ourselves, and patience.

Thanks for sharing your experience and rationale; keep doing so, please...

Gotta go, take care.

[pinballwizard]

Very good Poll there, PinBall.......That's a heady list of nootropics.  Looking forward to more of your posts.

HumanEsque

Your Welcome, It's not much quantity though. I seemed like a lot of happy people had a variety of nootropics, not large portions. You are all right though, I dont have as much knoweledge and experience to be doing this or perhaps posting. I reserve the right to change my opinions. I am only 2 weeks into this. I know I am going to make more changes to my stack. There are so many changes I have to make. Next week I will try to eliminate one nootropic every day to see what in fact happens.

Honestly, I might be getting too much vasodillation. I must add that I have been taking propecia and NO2 tablets from GNC --both are vasodillators. I have this mild headache in the front of my head at the moment. Vinpocetine and Ginko Biloba are improve the circulation too. I had headache last night right behind my eyes, after working out cardio... Also my heart rate was a wee bit higher than normal. I did not realize is was pushing 170, I normally doing 135 beats per minute. My blood pressure was good the last time I went to the doctor. 115 over 75?? I am not sure I remember, they said it was very normal though.

Either that or it is too much choline. Whatever, cognitively, I got some results.

I am will post more, particular when I switch up the doses...

Pinball.

[eternaltraveler]

Just keep in mind that the people most likely to respond to this poll are people that have thought they have experienced benefits from nootropics. That is why I do not think polls are a terribly good idea. Because primarily in a setting like this you are far more likely to hear exactly what you want too.

Not to discount anyone's experiences here. And to be perfectly hypocritical I did recently start a poll of my own in another section of the forum.

Be careful with those vasodillators. Don't give yourself a stroke.

[bdnf]

The risk of a hemorrhagic stroke is indeed increased when vasodilation (effect of niacin, hydergine etc) is coupled with anti-conglutination (effect of Ginkgo, Fish oil etc). And an aerobic exercise induced heart-rate spike (which you experienced) may cause weakened vascular tissue to burst and an excitotoxic cascade to ensue.

As Nootropi stated, everyone has a unique biochemistry, and in being unique, this dictates a nootropic stack tailored to your particular physiology.

Edited by bdnf, 05 October 2004 - 08:53 PM.

[scottl]

"Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM"

200 mg vinpocetine/day? +

Picamilon (another vasodilator) +

ginko (weaker vasodilator)

[scottl]

Cosmos,

Does "an uncomfortable vasodilation feeling" mean headache? I'm about to start vinpo tomorrow (plus I've recommended it to others.

Thanks.

[bdnf]

I should mention that my head lost some feeling as if it was dead weight on my neck.

Was this loss of feeling accompanied by a localized tingling sensation?

I'm getting an uncomfortable vasodilation feeling

Could you please provide a reference to the book/web site to which you base your diagnosis on? That is, what do you believe are the defining symptoms of vasodilation? I remember reading that postural hypotension and increased body warmth are indicative of significant vasodilation.

Edited by bdnf, 05 October 2004 - 09:18 PM.

[pinballwizard]

WHY SO FEW VOTES!?!

[Bruce Klein]

18 votes (thus far) is about right.

[pinballwizard]

I was wondering if we could get some comments from people as to why "the more than subtle positive" scores:

Here are the more than subtle positive scores:

Yes, and the results are more than subtle and positive.
Yes, and the results are good.
Yes, and the results are great.

I think I put good, and would change it to subtle and positive. I think that there might be some adaptation going on. I think my body is adapting and making certain smart drugs either less beneficial or counter-productive. I find that adding nicotine gum and nootropics gave me huge cognitive enhancement but it was artificial and only last a few hours.

In all however, I need to have the smartdrugs in the morning.. and the result is somehwere between subtle and positive and good.

___________________________________________

Please post your comments. You might be doing something that the group needs to know. What is it you are doing differently to get better results?

[scottl]

Pinball,

If you are still taking the Idebnone you may want to read previous posts--it may not be a good idea (sorry if you stopped and I missed it).

[pinballwizard]

Yeah, I remember reading the thread. Thanks for making recall it.

http://www.imminst.o...=6&t=3636&st=0

I will black list idebnone until I learn more. I dont know squat.

It is a small amount anyway.

AOR seems to have their stuff together, I will take their word for it. When there is doubt, anyway, go natural. This stuff is bright orange, and degrades.

Perhaps RALA supplementation could make Idebnone beneficial, assuming that it is not beneficial?

Pinball

[pinballwizard]

People should update this... If you have not submitted your answer to the poll and you have an idea about your nootropics... please say so.

I can definitely feel a difference when not taking them. the cetams +agpc +citcoline and deprenyl are there. deprenyl seems to increase pleasure and drive albeit very subtly.

I thought modafanil was no good after months of use. I am liking 10mgs of ritallin as a replacement which is small. It is by no means a nootropic. But it seems much cleaner (fewer side effects than modafinil). With ritallin you seem a little irritable in the evening but it is much less than caffeine in my opinion. With modafinil I found a few probs with speaking, spatial tasks...

[Infernity]

Does Omega-3 counts as Nootropics?
That's all I take, yet...

Yours
~Infernity

[Infernity]

Does Omega-3 counts as Nootropics?
That's all I take, yet...

Yours
~Infernity

[wannafulfill]

My vote was for no. I've posted elsewhere about it, but I've tried piracetam, aniracetam, various forms of choline, huperzine, etc on a consistent basis and at recommend doses (and even above) but to no avail.

[LifeMirage]

Does Omega-3 counts as Nootropics?
That's all I take, yet...

No.

[Infernity]

Heh thanks, Life Mirage .
Then that's not relevant to me.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[drmz]

Too bad i have to say NO to this question. ( http://www.imminst.o...f=169&t=5332&s= )

I am feeling worse when taking nootropics then without taking them. I changed my dose every now and then to see if my feeling changed. But not much happened while taking low or high dosages of nootropics. Only thing i noticed was an increased or decreased dizzynes depending on the dose i took. I tried almost all dosage levels, from safest ( lowest ) to mid to high doses ....not one single postive point . I only noticed a better overall mood and clearness in the first week and a bit of the second week.( could be placebo ).

The only thing that i really notice is Bacopa ( more social ) and Fish oil ( talkactive ) and alcar ( slighty better mood ) . My 101 useless thoughts are gone, but i'm now more in a zombie state like mode. Thinking really nothing, reading without interest and really 0 improvement in motivation :( And besides that i'm fed up with an extreme dizzyness in my head which was serious and almost preventing me from doing my job properly. Last week i was inable to memorize 4 digits and two characters ...in one mail i needed this number 4 times and i needed to look 4 times what it was .

For some reason my eruptions on my hand came back. I only had them in a period of my life 7-8 years ago...where i was really stressed because i slept 2-3 hours on average a night for 6-8 months.

My sleep pattern is good, worse in the weekend but not bad. I sport every day, i take my fruits , eat healthy , no coffee , enough anti-oxidants ( q10-E-C-B complex Theanine ) .
I have really no clue what is causing this bad reaction to the nootropics . Even 3 days after taking them, i got a rush of dizzyness today, i could almost feel the activity in my head, something was happening there. In contrast to 7-8 years ago, i was not consciously thinking about this feeling....but it cant go undetected when you're almost unable to walk in a straight line when talking to somebody :(