132 replies to this topic

[andrewmartinuk]

yes & NO

wow.. this topic is nearly a decade old...

[MizTen]

Yes, mostly.

[lazarian]

I'm not sure. So far I've only tried one nootropic one time in my life, and I had many limiting factors that day, so I suppose I'll just try again another time.

[mission780]

[/B]

Which nootropics do you take pinballwizard?

Below is my list. I got to say that a good cardio workout is the equivalent of many nootropics.

1. Deprenyl 1.25 mg AM (1mg is usually recommended however for healthy people my age of 30 years old. I can't cut the pill right though)
2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)
5. [thumb] [thumb] [thumb] Phosphatidyl Serine 100 mg AM & PM (supposedly this is very very safe and effective recommended from "Smart Candy" Book...and they are big critics of nootropics) ( Look at the chart. http://www.imminst.o...59&hl=serine&s= )
6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. (Aren't I supposed to take more than that, but I cant read Italian labels? Well, I would run out much quicker)
7. RALA 200 AM & PM
8. Picamilon 100 AM & 100 PM
9. Centrophenoxine 125 mg AM with food (this stuff tastes nasty, and I think makes me dizzy if I drink it with water, not sure at all though.)
10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM
13. Idebnone 45mg AM & PM
14. Creatine Monohydrate 1.5 teaspoons AM & PM (15 grams total) (The results are absolutely fantastic for weightlifting, and I won't lift without it!) (Some people get gas when they take it, but I have never had any changes)
....

I have two beginner's questions:
1. Why to use different kinds of racetams? Isn't it enough to take Piracetam only or Aniracetam only or any other solely?
2. Why to use SO MANY SUBSTANCES? Isn't it more difficult to find synergy with so many compounds?

[sakay]

they dont live up to the hype as much as i had hoped

[xcnt]

I'm a rather new user of nootropics, but so far nootropics exceeded my expectations, especially the combination of Noopept + CDP Choline + Sulbutiamine + Omega-3. I tend to get a bit manic on that combination, which is what I very much like as a state of mind.

Have tested: (in no particular order)

Noopept + CDP Choline = excellent
Sulbutiamine = excellent
L-Tyrosine = ok, but rather subtle
Caffeine + L-Theanine = very good
Omega-3 = good (but I usually take low dosages, so might get even better, if I ever increase my dosage)
Liposomal Vitamin C = excellent
Vinpocetine = never again (headaches and brain fog)
DMAE = not good

Rest of my usual stack consists of essential supplements like zinc, vitamin d, vitamin b12, iodine, magnesium, whey proteine mix + liquid amino acids and 3-5x excercise (running + resistance-/weight-training) per week.

Will add other nootropics/supplements to my stack in the future to test them.

My main goal is increase of energy, motivation and daily productivity.
As I'm not a student anymore, learning is not that important right now.

Edited by xcnt, 21 March 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Jackemeyer]

I have two general questions, to start:

1) "Where are they now?"

(The forum did have at least one update, 2004 to 2008 from pinballmachine)

Pinball - if you're still following this thread I see you were (or are still) taking Idebenone and Co-Q10 at the same time - surely you don't need both?
I'd go with the idebenone over the Co-Q10 - any thoughts anyone?

I don't take either anymore. In fact I have not been taking a lot lately.

Here is what I want to take now and compare that with the old list below...

Any updates?

Since xcnt just posted an interest in Nootropics -- he (and we all) could use some of the longitudinal data.

1. Deprenyl 1.25 mg AM (1mg is usually recommended however for healthy people my age of 30 years old. I can't cut the pill right though)
2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)

6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. Maybe i will take this for a while. probably not.

10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM

29. Omega oil 3 (fish oil)

I also want to take green tea in copius amounts and at the same time decrease all the cafeine I am taking. I am also taking huge amounts of royal jelly. I may want to eliminate some of the cetam dosage and perhaps aniracetam altogether because it might make me sleepy.

I also believe now that stress is the cause of most memory problems... I am getting more into meditation, yoga, breathing, budhism, tea and everything eastern to help... maybe spiritual retreats etc. Cardio exercise is great.

I am also more socially. I believe talking with people and interacting makes you more intelligent. I took improv classes and did a lot of over things. I am going to take up guitar at some point.

These things when combined with a reginmen above will make me feel good. I hope to be able to sleep at night though.

[thumb] [thumb] Phosphatidyl Serine 100 mg AM & PM (supposedly this is very very safe and effective recommended from "Smart Candy" Book...and they are big critics of nootropics) ( Look at the chart. http://www.imminst.o...t...l=serine&s= )
6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. (Aren't I supposed to take more than that, but I cant read Italian labels? Well, I would run out much quicker)
7. RALA 200 AM & PM
8. Picamilon 100 AM & 100 PM
9. Centrophenoxine 125 mg AM with food (this stuff tastes nasty, and I think makes me dizzy if I drink it with water, not sure at all though.)
10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM
13. Idebnone 45mg AM & PM
14. Creatine Monohydrate 1.5 teaspoons AM & PM (15 grams total) (The results are absolutely fantastic for weightlifting, and I won't lift without it!) (Some people get gas when they take it, but I have never had any changes)

I also take supplements that are available online or at a health store. I get my vitamins mostly from the Supernutrition Optipack but I am looking for something cheaper. Supernutrition is very potent thought! I also take Cognita which is a multi-chemical pill at GNC with some vitamins and things like ginko, and choline and huperzine. Lastly I drink energy first shakes with their product greenergy with grass and green tea and a whole list of things below. The totals for these things are below. I did not list all the vitamins, minerals and herbs because they are not very nootropic.

Some links for the products I buy
http://www.prolithic...s/optipack.html
http://shopping.nets...3/it.A/id.57/.f
http://tinyurl.com/5y4ms
There is another bottle for which I dont have a link called Cognita sold exclusively by GNC

Vitamins split in 3 seperate pills for Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner --this is from the Supernutrition Opti-Pack brand vitamins and Cognita brand pill (Cognita is available at GNC) (Supernutrition is probably available at a whole foods store)
15. Vitamin E 1200 IU split into three seperate dosages (keep the dosages consistent on vitamin E, your body does not like E changes)
16. Thiamin (B1) 200 MG split into three seperate dosages
17. Riboflavin (B2) 100 MG split into three seperate dosages
18. Niacin 400 mg (Sometime your face gets flushed for 20 minutes, like you are embarassed if you take too much, but it is harmless) split into three seperate dosages
19. Vitamin b-6 250 mg split into three seperate dosages
20. Folic Acid 1200 mcg split into three seperate dosages
21. B-12 1025 mcg split into three seperate dosages (my friend loves this for depression, but why not take a B-complex)
22. Phosphatidyl Choline (as soy lecithin) 250mg split into three seperate dosages
23. Siberian ginseng 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (Ginseng is a much better caffeine.. You dont feel like crap an hour later)
24. Milk Thistle 100mg split into 2 seperate dosages (hey it aint a nootropic, but it is good for the liver)
25. EPA 75mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita) (I have no idea what 25.-28 do but, it is in Cognita)
26. DHA 50 mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
27. Coenzyme q-10 10mg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
28. Huperzine A 100 mcg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)

29. Omega oil 3,6,9 1gram Breakfast, and Lunch split into 2 seperate dosages (it really helps my arthritus, it is a must for good health)
30. green tea extract (tea has been a medicinal beverage before human kind dating back 10s of thousands of years!) split into 2 seperate dosages (it is a powerful antioxidant and the Asians are right about this.)
31. Licorice root 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (I think this stuff calms you down)
32. Ginko Biloba 150mg split into 3 seperate dosages (I get a head throb taking this even by itself. Dont take it too late.)

My second question is related to non-nootropic supplementation, and so I replied to this message, since Synapsical (and Vultures, later) touched on my same interest/concern re: supplementing.

2) Within this list are standard nutritional ingredients -- in what ways were these ingredients being used for other, additional synergistic outcomes or experiences (in the whole-istic spirit)?

Sounds like you are approaching things much more wholistically. Social activities, keeping the mind sharp, doing things that help to reduce stress, and proper nutrition seems like a winning combo.

I like this statement


Thanks,
Jack

"Knock Knock":
pinballwizard, algernon, nootropi, scottl, "Cosmos", wannafulfill, drmz, enemy, vortexentity,
spaceistheplace, keatah, PramMan, stephen_b, stargazer, zachadelic, kikai93, imarobot, Aleatoryskepsis

electricbuddha, yowza, genro, russianBEAR, ChristianS, Rain, spider, sugarstack, nito, somethingtropic,

bobman, kodida, gzz, longevitynow, Daniel Hugo, Logan, slammer, kassem23, FDA Approved,

Zippy123, JChief, DWaters, Nootropix, signman, jhelms, magta39, kagalive1985, stablemind, @now,

lifebuddy, natro, leftside, fql, avelez, Suncatcher, andrea23, machete234, norepinephrine, magta39,

MrSan, MrRogersBestNeighbor, andrewmartinuk, and MizTen.

[pinballwizard]

Yeah, sure I will give you an update.

I was the original poster and I only felt subtle affects, mostly. When I initially took the -cetams, I noticed an intense intelligence type high within a few hours. I was so happy about the results. But that quickly went away for me. After that, it was subtle. But, that I think is pretty normal.

I haven't been supplementing much. I may have only done it for 1 year total if you added up all the times. Mostly because it is a pain in the ass and basically there is a fear that you are going to poison yourself with Chinese lead or take something that is not properly synthesized or something that has passed it's shelf-life.

That being said, I believe in the idea of supplementation for the brain.

Also, I believe you may be asking the wrong question. Instead of asking, "Where are they now?", you should be asking, "Who are the best experts in this arena"? "And what can we learn from them?" "How can we know how much the improvements are?" "How do we know which products are safe?" Also, "what are other protocols can we be doing that are not related to Nootropics"? "What tests can we take?"

"Who are the best experts in this arena"?

I think one person to look at is Dr. Erin Braverman and maybe Dr. Amen. Pamela Smith, MD might have some good material on brain health out there. There are a lot of doctors that have great ideas. You just have to look. It's not as simple as just taking some random brain supplement. Because that is like saying all you need is steroids and you can play major league baseball. That would be like saying "all I need is a pill, and then I can stop being obese." There is so much more. Run tests. Stop poisoning yourself with alcohol, drugs, fluoride, GMO food, sugar. That is what they will tell you. You have to live a healthy lifestyle. You have to take vitamins. Everything is very interconnected. There is no one answer! There is no one supplement. It's a lifestyle you have to take on.

"And what can we learn from them?"

They have a ton of books and clients. They have research in reversing the brain like 15 years.

"How can we know how much the improvements are?"

You take baseline tests for intelligence. You measure the blood/urine/saliva for nutrients, hormones and neurotransmitters because a spinal tap is not such a good idea.

"How do we know which products are safe?"

Go with a compounding pharmacy. Stick to reputable companies. Visit them. Perhaps avoid things not found in nature. I wonder why Braverman is not prescribing -cetams.

Also, "what are other protocols can we be doing that are not related to Nootropics" but still increase intellect?

Definitely... Don't drink alcohol. drink one coffee daily if it combines well with your stack. Eat less sugar. Do mental exercises. Do physical exercises. Braverman recommends hormone therapy as it tells stem cells to turn into neurons. So, testosterone for example, tells your body to produce neurons. Read the books by the doctors out there. Look online to find the lectures buried on youtube.

"What tests can we take?"

Lots of IQ tests, brain tests, luminoscity, EEGs (build one or take it at bravermans office. Do a before and after.)

Now that I am older, I realize how much I need this and ant-aging doctors have made great strides with patients. Things like ALCAR aren't just good for the brain. They are good for the whole body. Phosphatidil Serine... So much is good for the body in general. But you should run tests. Everything has its limits. You can over do practically anything.

For me for example, I am low in B complex and I have chronic fatigue and mitochondrial dysfunction. I am finding that lowering carbs and looking at the fats I eat will be helpful in brain development. I can take ALCAR with fish oil together for example.

I know you are going to ask me for my stack. I haven't made up my mind as to what my new stack will be. But, I will work with integrative/functional/anti-aging type doctors that already prescribe nutrition and supplements for exactly this. Yeah, they are hard to find. But they are out there. They tend to avoid anything not found in nature-- cetams, pyritinol, sulbultiamine, etc. I will come back once I get a stack and put it up. It will be a stack that might be benign if taking too much.

But here is what I am taking now that is mind enhancing:

4 grams Fish oil (EPA) but I will switch to something that is EPA and DHA
RALA
Creatine
B-12 by injection daily
B-complex (high quality)
Acetyl-L-Carnitine.
Multivitamin
Co-q10, pqq
DHEA

Things I might add:
I will add a glutathione lypsomal from la habra.
I will get my lipids thoroughly tested.
I will probably take AGPC.
I will probably take ginko
also: vinpocetine, resveratrol,d-ribose, and the list goes on. I will be taking an anti-aging regimen.


I will chelate the mercury that I tested for and try to destroy the candida that has probably accumulated (and take an organic acid test and a heavy metal provocation to make sure)

I look extremely young for my age. I am going to keep applying life-style and get answers from experts who get beat up by other doctors, scientists and the FDA.

[gabbymellow]

this is the first time i've actually dipped my toe into the world of nootropics and i'm actually really surprised by the effects. You can probably guess that it was with modafinil, reading the forum it almost seems like the newbs place to begin. I took 200mg and pretty much noticed no difference. The next day i took 600mg and the results were kinda astonishing. I went slowly from very tired to wide in about 45 minutes, then i got kinda restless to do things waiting for something to happen and went for a walk, then cleaned the house and did some shopping . It took me a while to realise it had kicked in and that's the reason for my activity lol.
then i was at a friends house and sat browsing the internet like a wiki loving fiend while holding an active conversation with a group of friends and watching TV without skipping a beat. it might not sound amazing i guess but seeing it from the inside out was a noticibly awesome experience lol.
I didn't feel as if i was locking information in any better than before but the amount i could take in seemed to be much improved.

[gabbymellow]

well no sleep in 37 hours. i really underestimated the crap out of this stuff. I have a dry mouth and soft stools. 600mg may have been a tad too much.

[Jackemeyer]

Yeah, sure I will give you an update.

I was the original poster and I only felt subtle affects, mostly. When I initially took the -cetams, I noticed an intense intelligence type high within a few hours. I was so happy about the results. But that quickly went away for me. After that, it was subtle. But, that I think is pretty normal.

Thanks to (who is pinballwizard)?

Big long Q4U:
Is it safe for me to assume that you have experienced many short-term interventions such as periodic exercise, chocolate intake, etc. having pleasant outcomes (of happiness, satisfaction, efficacy, purpose) but the nootropics are thus named & predicted to bring additional cognitive benefits so as to both satisfy happiness, etc., & enhance the subjective quality (& quantitative results) of those activities?

For example 1, non-nootropic intervention: making a switch from tea to coffee or vice versa can bring great happiness and a enhance feelings of accomplishment within hir context of personal values and goals, etc.
For example 2, nootropic intervention: addition of closely controlled amounts bring the same feelings of efficacy, plus far-enhanced sense of depth and mastery of activities.

In both, it appears the human (mind's reflection on overall state of being) pleasantly adapts to the changes, but the invigoration dampens with time, with one eventually desiring a refreshing change.

One who appears to (unknowingly?) have awareness and a sense of control may be christianbbr, who stated:

TBH, they invented the placebo effect in studies because of people like me.

My mind alone is crazy. Its hard to explain but I can imitate or feel whatever I want by thinking it. Its so bad that when I take a supplement, I can only tell if it works by thinking it is....

This doesn't happen to all supplements. Its not somethign crazy abnormal and I don't mean to sound exaggerated but in my experience. a lot of supplements only work for me because " I think" they work for me.

Sounds like a valuable emerging property of hir self-described "crazy mind". No matter the substance, if christianbbr has understand (from an outside, non-I source), s/he is likely to experience the suggested outcome.

I haven't been supplementing much. I may have only done it for 1 year total if you added up all the times.

Actually, the total number of days is interesting. Let's say 330 days of intervention out of 3,300.

Did you happen to record dates of the periods of time that you supplemented?
Might correspond to purchases or blog postings?

Your 2004 and 2008 posts in this forum might help you organize those.

Mostly because it is a pain in the ass and basically there is a fear that you are going to poison yourself with Chinese lead or take something that is not properly synthesized or something that has passed it's shelf-life.

That being said, I believe in the idea of supplementation for the brain.

Since you are a believer, you may be operating in a similar placebo way as described above by christianbbr. A believer is by definition (historical and contemporary) one who has an iron grasp on a closely held idea, a beloved idea, and with religion, the addition of fantasy.

Is this what you mean?

Also, I believe you may be asking the wrong question.

I understand that you think I may be asking "the wrong question".

I'll take responsibility for the possibility that my question is "wrong". Since I value understanding short-term effects and the emerging properties as time passes, I think my question is important. And with all of the forum posters posting "stacks" several years ago, I am curious to know personal reflection 4 - 8 years later.

Instead of asking, "Where are they now?", you should be asking, "Who are the best experts in this arena"? "And what can we learn from them?" "How can we know how much the improvements are?" "How do we know which products are safe?" Also, "what are other protocols can we be doing that are not related to Nootropics"? "What tests can we take?"

"Who are the best experts in this arena"?

Seeking guidance from authorities is also part of my big picture approach, but only to enhance my understanding, not replace my own processing. With each question anyone asks in any field, a gradient of responses will emerge from those who work deeply within the field of interest. Responsibility means to integrate the info and decide whether or not to put the nootropics into your body... if yes, study n=1 begins!

For now, I am curious to know where are they now, (if any of these users are still existing, as users, and if they are interested in participating in self-reflection and sharing their thoughts).

<snipped by Jack, for now>

I will continue thinking about the myriad questions you posted (which I have snipped for now) and reply later if I have something to add or ask.

Thanks, whoever you are
--
Jack

[triley32]

Anyone try MentalBright? One of my friends take it and he says it works magic for him. I guess it can be from person to person, but maybe there is a sweet spot of combinations of ingredients. According to the website its made up of Alpha GPC, Caffeine, Choline Bitartrate, Huperzine A, and Vinpocetine

[Falco78]

I noticed mild benefits off of 2 x 10mg of vinpocetine daily. I am looking for a bit more than that and the research has begun