132 replies to this topic

[eternaltraveler]

specifically what nootropics are you taking? At what dosage?

[enemy]

I was one of the "more than subtle" crowd.

I qualify as follows:

I have a night job working for the big brown box-moving machine. It's physically demanding, but in exchange I make good money. I didn't want to quit.

I have a day job as a mathematics student. It's mentally demanding, but in exchange I get a sense of satisfaction. The work/school conflict was minimal at the junior college where I started out. But when I transferred to the larger, state university, competition went up substantially, the classes got more difficult, and I wasn't the top-of-the-foodchain anymore. The night hours spent working were really damaging my grades. I didn't like that, but I didn't want to quit my job either. Something about having a fat wad of cash is kinda addictive.

Anyway, I had heard about modafinil for a while, even back when I was in the army. I invested some money in piracetam, hydergine and centrophenoxine too. On the mornings, MWF, when I have classes at 9 AM and work doesn't end until 3AM, I use 100mg modafinil. It works. Period. Its not pleasurable, its not desirable, but I am awake, alert and I survive. In addition to periodic modafinil use, I use 2.4g piracetam, 250mg centro and a hydergine fas tab whenever I wake up, be it in the morning on MWF, or in the afternoon on Tues/Thurs.

At juco, I carried a 4.0 GPA throughout. Upon entering the state U, first semester I was down to a 3.2, next semester a 3.4. This is my third semester. At this point (3 weeks to go in the game), I have a real, tangible shot at a 4.0. Most likely I will end up with 3.67 - 3.8 range, but I still consider that a "more than subtle" effect.

Just my two pennies. I've modified the regimen for fall semester. See the sapho juice thread.

[vortexentity]

Just a suggestion on Piracteam for people who it does not work well for. I took it for several years in my 30's. I stopped due to lack of availability and high cost. Then recently I started again about a year ago. I noticed it still worked well for me but did not work quite as well. At first I attributed this to the fact that it was likely cheap generic and not quite as potent. Then I did some research and found out that our utilization of Piracetam depends on our production of Pregnenolone. This is the master hormone and low levels of it cause several things like a lack of DHEA and Testosterone and other hormones.

The 2 are linked so I would suggest to anyone over 30 or 35 anyway or anyone with lower than normal testosterone levels or just anyone that piracetam does not work for to start taking Pregnenolone about 20 to 30mg per day. Try taking it at the same time you does with Piracetam.

It is cheap and very safe to use for men or women so this experiment might just be worth your time and money to try.

It is a performance enhancer that is still legal to use ever for competition athletes.

Edited by vortexentity, 19 April 2005 - 03:31 AM.

[pinballwizard]

Just a suggestion on Piracteam for people who it does not work well for. I took it for several years in my 30's. I stopped due to lack of availability and high cost. Then recently I started again about a year ago. I noticed it still worked well for me but did not work quite as well. At first I attributed this to the fact that it was likely cheap generic and not quite as potent. Then I did some research and found out that  our utilization of Piracetam depends on our production of Pregnenolone. This is the master hormone and low levels of it cause several things like a lack of DHEA and Testosterone and other hormones.

The 2 are linked so I would suggest to anyone over 30 or 35 anyway or anyone with lower than normal testosterone levels or just anyone that piracetam does not work for to start taking Pregnenolone about 20 to 30mg per day. Try taking it at the same time you does with Piracetam.

It is cheap and very safe to use for men or women so this experiment might just be worth your time and money to try.

It is a performance enhancer that is still legal to use ever for competition athletes.

I think you are onto something vortex... I thought I read something similary. Either DHEA or too much cortisol completely eliminates the affects of Piracetem. Too bad, my memory does not allow me to recall what it's relationship is with this. I think I remember reading some stuff on Pubmed and rats with cortisol or lacking DHEA.

If someone knows, that would be great to find out.

Pinball

[scottl]

Vortex,

Thanks very much. You have perfect timing as I was about to start Pregnenolone and coincidentally try piracetam again (I noticed nothing the first time). If I hadn't read this and responded to the piracetam I might have concluded that it was the generic piracetam that was the problem.

[ozone]

I equate anything that has an immediate effect as "addictive" and thus I'm glad I have yet to find a nootropic/brain-enhancer that has an immediate effect. Plus, I have not found something which is addictive but is "good" for you. I know this is somewhat off-topic, but it's also on-topic b/c we need to remind ourselves that any "magic bullet" is likely to be either bad for your or addictive. So, take your supplements and look for long term results, not overnight ones.

[ozone]

People should update this...  If you have not submitted your answer to the poll and you have an idea about your nootropics... please say so.

I can definitely feel a difference when not taking them.  the cetams +agpc +citcoline and deprenyl are there.  deprenyl seems to increase pleasure and drive albeit very subtly.

I thought modafanil was no good after months of use.  I am liking 10mgs of ritallin as a replacement which is small.  It is by no means a nootropic.  But it seems much cleaner (fewer side effects than modafinil).  With ritallin you seem a little irritable in the evening but it is much less than caffeine in my opinion.  With modafinil I found a few probs with speaking, spatial tasks...

Well, the problem with ritalin or adderall is that it's addictive and after a few months 10mg will no longer do the trick. Also, one of the KEY reasons I dropped adderall (aside from the harmful effects on your brain) is that it makes you incredibly lethargic. I had so much energy in hich school and through college - I literally worked out 7days/wk from 8th grade till I was a senior in college. I stopped... when I started taking adderall. I didn't put 2+2 together but finally realized that once my dopamine had been depleated I didn't have the motivation to work out anymore. So be forewarned.

[drmz]

specifically what nootropics are you taking?  At what dosage?

I stopped taking all of them last friday. The fuzz in my head is getting a bit better. But it's not gone at all.. From 12:00 <> 18:00-19:00 i still feel VERY dizzy. Not in a sickening way, as if i run in little circles very fast and then stop...without the feeling of throwing up. I feel like a retard when feeling like this. Hard to explain.

I didn't have this feeling before the regime and this feeling was much worse during the regime.


9:00

ALCAR 500 mg
R-ALA 200 MG
Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )


10:00

Alpha GPC--500 mg daily w/breakfast ( sometimes Lecithin instead of ALPHA-GPC )
Bacopa-standardized to 20% bacosides500 mg
Piracetam 1 gram
Creatine-5 grams

10:00-12:00

Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )
Vitamine C 1000 MG
Multivitamin Strong 1 tab

13:00

Theanine--200 mg
Bacopa Monieri 500 mg
Piracetam 1 gram
ALCAR 500 MG
R-ALA 200 MG


15:00

Vitamin C 1000 MG

17:00

ALCAR 500 MG
R-ALA 200 MG
Omega 3-6-9 1000 MG ( EPA=35% DHA= 25% )

[styrokast]

Whatever, cognitively, I got some results.

You've got to hope so, look how many chemicals you consume and squander your money away on.
Most of the dosages you use for the individual chemicals are miniscule, for example you take 75mg of DHA, however the disages used in the studies to attain positive effect on stress reduction (catecholamine decreases) is in the order of 15000mg per day or 300mg/Kg for healthy young people.

22mg/Kg of piracetam is not significant either, neither is your dosage for aniracetam. Which should be used in the order of >50mg/Kg to attain the desired effect. (but more likely in the >100mg/Kg region) i.e 4-8gm per day for an 80Kg individual.

Special expensive sources of choline aren't necessary and a waste of money.

Aniracetam at the high doses used in good randomised and double-blind studies work. As with others such as EPA and DHA.

[spaceistheplace]

I said no.

In actuality nootropics do wonders for me...for about three days, and then I either crash horribly or receive no additional benefits. This has even been observed after taking fish oil.

[keatah]

I find that sporadic (on 2 days off for 5) usage is best for me. I need to be careful not to crash, especially with things that mess with the serotonin system and dopamine and mesolimbic pathways.. That stuff, you know.

Let me briefly summarize the real, tangible & measurable benefits that I have seen over the past 3 months.

1- I can successfully date a woman that is considerably more sophisticated than I am. This stuff makes it so easy.
2- Appreciation for music and its subtleties is definitely improved.
3- Slightly quicker mathematical abilities. Slightly. And I can breakdown the steps more concisely.
4- Improved vocabulary and word association.
5- Distinctiveness and uniqueness of other individuals' presence is improved; as is cross-association of details pertaining to them. Yeh..!

[Rags847]

I find that sporadic (on 2 days off for 5) usage is best for me. I need to be careful not to crash, especially with things that mess with the serotonin system and dopamine and mesolimbic pathways.. That stuff, you know.

Let me briefly summarize the real, tangible & measurable benefits that I have seen over the past 3 months.

1- I can successfully date a woman that is considerably more sophisticated than I am. This stuff makes it so easy.
2- Appreciation for music and its subtleties is definitely improved.
3- Slightly quicker mathematical abilities. Slightly. And I can breakdown the steps more concisely.
4- Improved vocabulary and word association.
5- Distinctiveness and uniqueness of other individuals' presence is improved; as is cross-association of details pertaining to them. Yeh..!

Which nootropics in particluar are you using when you see those results?

Edited by Rags847, 25 December 2007 - 07:22 AM.

[keatah]

I find that sporadic (on 2 days off for 5) usage is best for me. I need to be careful not to crash, especially with things that mess with the serotonin system and dopamine and mesolimbic pathways.. That stuff, you know.

Let me briefly summarize the real, tangible & measurable benefits that I have seen over the past 3 months.

1- I can successfully date a woman that is considerably more sophisticated than I am. This stuff makes it so easy.
2- Appreciation for music and its subtleties is definitely improved.
3- Slightly quicker mathematical abilities. Slightly. And I can breakdown the steps more concisely.
4- Improved vocabulary and word association.
5- Distinctiveness and uniqueness of other individuals' presence is improved; as is cross-association of details pertaining to them. Yeh..!

Which nootropics in particluar are you using when you see those results?

Nature's Optimal Nutrition liquid multi-vitamin
Fish oil
Piracetam

On occasion(a few days out of the month) I'll throw in extra B-complex and some C and E and Tyrosine. Maybe some Relora if I need to curb my appetite, or make up for bad eating.

I vary the dosages and skip days, as it is vital to avoid downregulation. It's what works extremely well for me. And most importantly it doesn't cost a fortune and it doesn't make me feel like a walking pharmacy either!

For those of you that want an incredibly serious 1-2 punch when it comes to socializing -- Learn all about your Dopamine/Prolactin response, and the associated implications.

[Rags847]

I find that sporadic (on 2 days off for 5) usage is best for me. I need to be careful not to crash, especially with things that mess with the serotonin system and dopamine and mesolimbic pathways.. That stuff, you know.

Let me briefly summarize the real, tangible & measurable benefits that I have seen over the past 3 months.

1- I can successfully date a woman that is considerably more sophisticated than I am. This stuff makes it so easy.
2- Appreciation for music and its subtleties is definitely improved.
3- Slightly quicker mathematical abilities. Slightly. And I can breakdown the steps more concisely.
4- Improved vocabulary and word association.
5- Distinctiveness and uniqueness of other individuals' presence is improved; as is cross-association of details pertaining to them. Yeh..!

Which nootropics in particluar are you using when you see those results?

Nature's Optimal Nutrition liquid multi-vitamin
Fish oil
Piracetam

On occasion(a few days out of the month) I'll throw in extra B-complex and some C and E and Tyrosine. Maybe some Relora if I need to curb my appetite, or make up for bad eating.

I vary the dosages and skip days, as it is vital to avoid downregulation. It's what works extremely well for me. And most importantly it doesn't cost a fortune and it doesn't make me feel like a walking pharmacy either!

For those of you that want an incredibly serious 1-2 punch when it comes to socializing -- Learn all about your Dopamine/Prolactin response, and the associated implications.

Cool. Using a choline source with the Piracetam?
Citicoline is my favorite.

Edited by Rags847, 25 December 2007 - 08:39 PM.

[keatah]

I find that sporadic (on 2 days off for 5) usage is best for me. I need to be careful not to crash, especially with things that mess with the serotonin system and dopamine and mesolimbic pathways.. That stuff, you know.

Let me briefly summarize the real, tangible & measurable benefits that I have seen over the past 3 months.

1- I can successfully date a woman that is considerably more sophisticated than I am. This stuff makes it so easy.
2- Appreciation for music and its subtleties is definitely improved.
3- Slightly quicker mathematical abilities. Slightly. And I can breakdown the steps more concisely.
4- Improved vocabulary and word association.
5- Distinctiveness and uniqueness of other individuals' presence is improved; as is cross-association of details pertaining to them. Yeh..!

Which nootropics in particluar are you using when you see those results?

Nature's Optimal Nutrition liquid multi-vitamin
Fish oil
Piracetam

On occasion(a few days out of the month) I'll throw in extra B-complex and some C and E and Tyrosine. Maybe some Relora if I need to curb my appetite, or make up for bad eating.

I vary the dosages and skip days, as it is vital to avoid downregulation. It's what works extremely well for me. And most importantly it doesn't cost a fortune and it doesn't make me feel like a walking pharmacy either!

For those of you that want an incredibly serious 1-2 punch when it comes to socializing -- Learn all about your Dopamine/Prolactin response, and the associated implications.

Cool. Using a choline source with the Piracetam?
Citicoline is my favorite.

I'm probably not using enough piracetam to require additional supplementation with a choline source. I try to use the minimal amount of any fractionated supplement.

[Rags847]

I'm probably not using enough piracetam to require additional supplementation with a choline source. I try to use the minimal amount of any fractionated supplement.

What is a "fractionated supplement"?
A fraction of the usual dose?

[keatah]

I'm probably not using enough piracetam to require additional supplementation with a choline source. I try to use the minimal amount of any fractionated supplement.

What is a "fractionated supplement"?
A fraction of the usual dose?

Fractionated means isolated, in that context. Strictly vitamin "E" for example, "E" and "E" alone, no other bioflavonoids or uncategorized co-factors that science hasn't looked into yet. Like eating an Orange, you get more than just Vitamins C & E for example, you get other antioxidants and fiber and well, you get the idea.

[PramMan]

I said their great.

I mostly use Pram and L-Hup. It makes no difference in vocabulary or communication skills. A decent improvement in logic but a huge improvement in concentration/motivation/focus. When I don't take one after working for a bit I quickly become bored and disinterested and that alone makes them super duper. One downside is I get more tired when I take them, likely caused by more intense concentration and working harder/longer.

[hamishm00]

Pinball - if you're still following this thread I see you were (or are still) taking Idebenone and Co-Q10 at the same time - surely you don't need both?

I'd go with the idebenone over the Co-Q10 - any thoughts anyone?

Edited by hamishm00, 22 January 2008 - 01:53 PM.

[Mixter]

I stopped taking all of them last friday. The fuzz in my head is getting a bit better. But it's not gone at all.. From 12:00 <> 18:00-19:00 i still feel VERY dizzy. Not in a sickening way, as if i run in little circles very fast and then stop...without the feeling of throwing up. I feel like a retard when feeling like this. Hard to explain.

Drmz, I recall that you were posting about issues with bradycardia (low heart rate)?
The most usual cause for any excessive diziness is a problem with your inner ear
or cochlea (a severe form of this is called Morbus Meniere). I know that ear
problems and related dizziness is associated with low metabolism/low circulation,
and extremely common in hyptothyroidism.

Perhaps you still have some low heart rate, or otherwise low circulation or low metabolic
rate, which doesn't have to be that bad by itself, but can also cause secondary dizziness
because your inner ear may get too few nutrients and oxygen, which causes dizziness
and is actually damaging to the ear (it slowly causes oxidative damage and DNA damage
known as "common aging deletion"). But hearing loss or dizziness is very well
treatable if it is due to low circulation/metabolism (which I suspect, although I have
no clue how your supps influence this, other than potentially lowering blood pressure/
circulation in some areas). It is often reversed by increasing circulation and
efficiency of oxygen utilization, most notably by ginkgo. This would be my first
suggestion for you to try, and wait 2-3 weeks for results.

And if any kind of dizziness gets severe (e.g. you're afraid of falling or are nauseous), then
examining your inner ear closely by a specialist is the way to go, it's almost always involved.

It's also not impossible that some nootropics are ototoxic (damaging to the ears),
as some medication is, but the chance is very remote, and nothing I would suspect.

[pinballwizard]

Pinball - if you're still following this thread I see you were (or are still) taking Idebenone and Co-Q10 at the same time - surely you don't need both?

I'd go with the idebenone over the Co-Q10 - any thoughts anyone?

I don't take either anymore. In fact I have not been taking a lot lately.

Here is what I want to take now and compare that with the old list below.

1. Deprenyl 1.25 mg AM (1mg is usually recommended however for healthy people my age of 30 years old. I can't cut the pill right though)
2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)

6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. Maybe i will take this for a while. probably not.

10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM

29. Omega oil 3 (fish oil)

I also want to take green tea in copius amounts and at the same time decrease all the cafeine I am taking. I am also taking huge amounts of royal jelly. I may want to eliminate some of the cetam dosage and perhaps aniracetam altogether because it might make me sleepy.

I also believe now that stress is the cause of most memory problems... I am getting more into meditation, yoga, breathing, budhism, tea and everything eastern to help... maybe spiritual retreats etc. Cardio exercise is great.

I am also more socially. I believe talking with people and interacting makes you more intelligent. I took improv classes and did a lot of over things. I am going to take up guitar at some point.

These things when combined with a reginmen above will make me feel good. I hope to be able to sleep at night though.

[thumb] [thumb] Phosphatidyl Serine 100 mg AM & PM (supposedly this is very very safe and effective recommended from "Smart Candy" Book...and they are big critics of nootropics) ( Look at the chart. http://www.imminst.o...t...l=serine&s= )
6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. (Aren't I supposed to take more than that, but I cant read Italian labels? Well, I would run out much quicker)
7. RALA 200 AM & PM
8. Picamilon 100 AM & 100 PM
9. Centrophenoxine 125 mg AM with food (this stuff tastes nasty, and I think makes me dizzy if I drink it with water, not sure at all though.)
10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM
13. Idebnone 45mg AM & PM
14. Creatine Monohydrate 1.5 teaspoons AM & PM (15 grams total) (The results are absolutely fantastic for weightlifting, and I won't lift without it!) (Some people get gas when they take it, but I have never had any changes)

I also take supplements that are available online or at a health store. I get my vitamins mostly from the Supernutrition Optipack but I am looking for something cheaper. Supernutrition is very potent thought! I also take Cognita which is a multi-chemical pill at GNC with some vitamins and things like ginko, and choline and huperzine. Lastly I drink energy first shakes with their product greenergy with grass and green tea and a whole list of things below. The totals for these things are below. I did not list all the vitamins, minerals and herbs because they are not very nootropic.

Some links for the products I buy
http://www.prolithic...s/optipack.html
http://shopping.nets...3/it.A/id.57/.f
http://tinyurl.com/5y4ms
There is another bottle for which I dont have a link called Cognita sold exclusively by GNC

Vitamins split in 3 seperate pills for Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner --this is from the Supernutrition Opti-Pack brand vitamins and Cognita brand pill (Cognita is available at GNC) (Supernutrition is probably available at a whole foods store)
15. Vitamin E 1200 IU split into three seperate dosages (keep the dosages consistent on vitamin E, your body does not like E changes)
16. Thiamin (B1) 200 MG split into three seperate dosages
17. Riboflavin (B2) 100 MG split into three seperate dosages
18. Niacin 400 mg (Sometime your face gets flushed for 20 minutes, like you are embarassed if you take too much, but it is harmless) split into three seperate dosages
19. Vitamin b-6 250 mg split into three seperate dosages
20. Folic Acid 1200 mcg split into three seperate dosages
21. B-12 1025 mcg split into three seperate dosages (my friend loves this for depression, but why not take a B-complex)
22. Phosphatidyl Choline (as soy lecithin) 250mg split into three seperate dosages
23. Siberian ginseng 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (Ginseng is a much better caffeine.. You dont feel like crap an hour later)
24. Milk Thistle 100mg split into 2 seperate dosages (hey it aint a nootropic, but it is good for the liver)
25. EPA 75mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita) (I have no idea what 25.-28 do but, it is in Cognita)
26. DHA 50 mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
27. Coenzyme q-10 10mg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
28. Huperzine A 100 mcg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)

29. Omega oil 3,6,9 1gram Breakfast, and Lunch split into 2 seperate dosages (it really helps my arthritus, it is a must for good health)
30. green tea extract (tea has been a medicinal beverage before human kind dating back 10s of thousands of years!) split into 2 seperate dosages (it is a powerful antioxidant and the Asians are right about this.)
31. Licorice root 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (I think this stuff calms you down)
32. Ginko Biloba 150mg split into 3 seperate dosages (I get a head throb taking this even by itself. Dont take it too late.)

[synapse]

Pinball - if you're still following this thread I see you were (or are still) taking Idebenone and Co-Q10 at the same time - surely you don't need both?

I'd go with the idebenone over the Co-Q10 - any thoughts anyone?

I don't take either anymore. In fact I have not been taking a lot lately.

Here is what I want to take now and compare that with the old list below.

1. Deprenyl 1.25 mg AM (1mg is usually recommended however for healthy people my age of 30 years old. I can't cut the pill right though)
2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)

6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. Maybe i will take this for a while. probably not.

10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM

29. Omega oil 3 (fish oil)

I also want to take green tea in copius amounts and at the same time decrease all the cafeine I am taking. I am also taking huge amounts of royal jelly. I may want to eliminate some of the cetam dosage and perhaps aniracetam altogether because it might make me sleepy.

I also believe now that stress is the cause of most memory problems... I am getting more into meditation, yoga, breathing, budhism, tea and everything eastern to help... maybe spiritual retreats etc. Cardio exercise is great.

I am also more socially. I believe talking with people and interacting makes you more intelligent. I took improv classes and did a lot of over things. I am going to take up guitar at some point.

These things when combined with a reginmen above will make me feel good. I hope to be able to sleep at night though.

[thumb] [thumb] Phosphatidyl Serine 100 mg AM & PM (supposedly this is very very safe and effective recommended from "Smart Candy" Book...and they are big critics of nootropics) ( Look at the chart. http://www.imminst.o...t...l=serine&s= )
6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. (Aren't I supposed to take more than that, but I cant read Italian labels? Well, I would run out much quicker)
7. RALA 200 AM & PM
8. Picamilon 100 AM & 100 PM
9. Centrophenoxine 125 mg AM with food (this stuff tastes nasty, and I think makes me dizzy if I drink it with water, not sure at all though.)
10. Alpha-GPC 250 AM w/ food (Noot recommended I do 1 gram twice daily, but I have not capped the pills yet. It is much cheaper than CDP choline)
11. Pyritinol 200 mg AM & PM
12. Vinpocetine 10% 100 mg AM & PM
13. Idebnone 45mg AM & PM
14. Creatine Monohydrate 1.5 teaspoons AM & PM (15 grams total) (The results are absolutely fantastic for weightlifting, and I won't lift without it!) (Some people get gas when they take it, but I have never had any changes)

I also take supplements that are available online or at a health store. I get my vitamins mostly from the Supernutrition Optipack but I am looking for something cheaper. Supernutrition is very potent thought! I also take Cognita which is a multi-chemical pill at GNC with some vitamins and things like ginko, and choline and huperzine. Lastly I drink energy first shakes with their product greenergy with grass and green tea and a whole list of things below. The totals for these things are below. I did not list all the vitamins, minerals and herbs because they are not very nootropic.

Some links for the products I buy
http://www.prolithic...s/optipack.html
http://shopping.nets...3/it.A/id.57/.f
http://tinyurl.com/5y4ms
There is another bottle for which I dont have a link called Cognita sold exclusively by GNC

Vitamins split in 3 seperate pills for Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner --this is from the Supernutrition Opti-Pack brand vitamins and Cognita brand pill (Cognita is available at GNC) (Supernutrition is probably available at a whole foods store)
15. Vitamin E 1200 IU split into three seperate dosages (keep the dosages consistent on vitamin E, your body does not like E changes)
16. Thiamin (B1) 200 MG split into three seperate dosages
17. Riboflavin (B2) 100 MG split into three seperate dosages
18. Niacin 400 mg (Sometime your face gets flushed for 20 minutes, like you are embarassed if you take too much, but it is harmless) split into three seperate dosages
19. Vitamin b-6 250 mg split into three seperate dosages
20. Folic Acid 1200 mcg split into three seperate dosages
21. B-12 1025 mcg split into three seperate dosages (my friend loves this for depression, but why not take a B-complex)
22. Phosphatidyl Choline (as soy lecithin) 250mg split into three seperate dosages
23. Siberian ginseng 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (Ginseng is a much better caffeine.. You dont feel like crap an hour later)
24. Milk Thistle 100mg split into 2 seperate dosages (hey it aint a nootropic, but it is good for the liver)
25. EPA 75mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita) (I have no idea what 25.-28 do but, it is in Cognita)
26. DHA 50 mg split into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
27. Coenzyme q-10 10mg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)
28. Huperzine A 100 mcg into 3 seperate dosages (this came with cognita)

29. Omega oil 3,6,9 1gram Breakfast, and Lunch split into 2 seperate dosages (it really helps my arthritus, it is a must for good health)
30. green tea extract (tea has been a medicinal beverage before human kind dating back 10s of thousands of years!) split into 2 seperate dosages (it is a powerful antioxidant and the Asians are right about this.)
31. Licorice root 100 mg split into 2 seperate dosages (I think this stuff calms you down)
32. Ginko Biloba 150mg split into 3 seperate dosages (I get a head throb taking this even by itself. Dont take it too late.)

Sounds like you are approaching things much more wholistically. Social activities, keeping the mind sharp, doing things that help to reduce stress, and proper nutrition seems like a winning combo.

[stephen_b]

What I've noticed:

* Piracetam: some creativity enhancement, but not for every day. I sort of lose focus with piracetam.
* Aniracetam: very nice focus enhancer. I'm able to cruise through tasks that need doing but for which I don't necessarily have lots of motivation, which for me would be helpful more than the other two most of the time. The 750 mg dose of the Relentless Improvement product might be about 250 mg too much. It has a shorter half-life, so a twice daily dosage could be a good way to go.
* Oxiracetam: a great supplement for learning new material. I find that I approach complex material more thoughtfully than would otherwise be the case.

All of the above taken with Jarrow citicoline, 250mg, which in and of itself gives me a noticeable mental boost.

Stephen

[stargazer]

This is my "stack"


ritalin: 20-60mg ED
modafinil: 200-300mg ED
caffeine: ....alot.

Does it work? You bet. Though unfortunately I've started drinking lots of tea lately (because of the supreme taste) which have made me fairly tolerant to my stimulants. High doses of ritalin and modafinil doesn't make me develop tolerance at all but even miniscule amounts of caffeine does.

[vovin]

It's nice to see views and opinions on these subjects but you should not decide the effectiveness of noots based on opinions such as this. I think it's been well established that certain noots have no effect on some people and vast effects on others.

Edited by vovin, 15 February 2009 - 09:11 PM.

[zachadelic]

noots did work and are working (plus faith in further/diversified progression.) I answered yes/great due to my apparent progress since beginning the experimentation. I'd say I'm currently a "good" amount above my 'normal,' though was a bit "lower" when I got into them, late summer/early fall of '08.

in chrono-order: started with fish oil for a few months, got to piracetam/choline citrate, theanine, then acetyl-l-carnatine, phenibut, and recently huperzine a. this is not my 'stack', I definitely dose with a purpose - given expected/desired activities. the immediate horizon looks like checking out alpha-gpc and sulbutamine. when money facilitates it, I'd love to dig deeper into the rest of the racetams/etc and their various combos.

for the time being (note: took a while to get to this point), I have awesome functionality with a basic stack of piracetam@2gx2, choline citrate (1g-3g)x2, theanine .5gx2 (where x2 is morning and early afternoon, separation of about 5 hours.) even that stack varies, like if I think I'll benefit from stress, I'll leave out the theanine, or if I need time to pass a little bit more quickly, I'll up a bit of acetyl-l-carnatine, or however. sometimes there's coffee/green tea/herbs [main herbs: ginkgo, gotu kola, ginseng] added in for extra energy, anxiety reduction, or mood enhancement. this is all while paying attention to overall cycling to avoid "the crutch" and going really light with the huperzine (remembering risks fibrosis and ACh receptor down-regulation from high/daily use or something like that, plus I eat the choline anyway). if I'm gonna supp for a night, I've got a different setup for a quiet evening, social evening, adventure evening (to me, evening means "time spent without general productivity," as opposed to daytime - saturday is often a very long evening), which hinges around the gabaergics and occasional bit of piracetam.

totally important to remember that individual responses (i.e. You) to each chem is different. all anecdotal reports as well as (imho) peer reviewed journal refs should be read as a "med/strong maybe" and taken with a phat tsp of salt. I've found the important part of building a stack is doing it one piece at a time, giving a solid personal understanding of each component, and further - their interactions.

[kikai93]

Here is what I want to take now and compare that with the old list below.

2. Piracetam 800mg AM & PM
3. Aniracetam 420 mg AM & PM (Nootropi recommended 500 here, but my pill size is this weight more or less)
4. Oxiracetam 500 mg AM & PM (Nootrpi recommended 600mg, but this is the pill size it came in)

6. Hydergine Novartis brand liquid 1ml AM. Maybe i will take this for a while. probably not.

From whence are you sourcing the above? I've been looking for a cheap effective oxiracetam source in particular.

[imarobot]

I answered No. I've taken many, many things. Except for Provigil and caffeine, no supplement has worked for more than a couple days, which makes me think placebo. When paying close attention, it's easy to attribute any positive or negative change to the new supplement.

For slowly building mental effects (slowtropics), ashwagandha and removing all crap (especially wheat) from my diet has done wonders.

[Aleatoryskepsis]

I took 2g of Piractam a day for 3 months with a choline source.

pros: speech and writing improved

cons: emotionally dead

The positive effects for me were subtle but I found myself using words that I'm comfortable using while writing but don't normally use verbally. At one point I had a near V speech experience where everything was rhyming with beautiful flow .

On the negative side I quit talking to my friends and was bored with everything, I could only be content by reading, but when I quit I was still bored and unsatisfied. When I stopped taking it I got depressed and started acting masochistic.


I don't want this effect again. From want I've read Pram is similar but has different effects and is more effective so I think I will try that soon if I can find a good source. Do any of you have some insight on that?

[electricbuddha]

Depends what one considers a nootropic. I've tried pretty much everything out there, and the only thing which has provided something noticeably distinct from placebo is modafinil.