7 replies to this topic

[golden1]

Hey, I figured I'd ask if anyone else had these issues with alcar or knew what could be causing my reaction.

If I take 1 capsule of this:
http://www.iherb.com...sules/2495?at=0
Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate dihydrochloride 500 mg
Acetyl-L-Carnitine 225 mg
Arginine 198 mg

or even just ~500-1000mg bulk acetyl-l-carnitine, I start to get really bored and clouded to the point where it feels like it would be too perfect to go to sleep. Sometimes I will also get a rather intense depression for a couple of hours(feeling like life is pointless, nothing is interesting, nothing to look forward to, etc) when I never have these thoughts normally. I'm pretty sure the tiredness/clouded thoughts/boredom/depression are all linked. Anyway the negative effects can last for about 2 days after which it goes away.

This happens whether or not I take cdp-coline, fish oil, b vitamins, vitamin c, piracetam, aniracetam, or anything else.

I do feel positive effects as well, but it's very hard to enjoy them considering everything I just mentioned. I'd like to be able to use alcar because it really seems like a all around good supplement, but I'm not sure what could be wrong. Should I just take 100-300mg, maybe I am really sensitive to it(possible?)?

Thanks for your inputs.

Edited by golden1, 23 August 2010 - 09:25 PM.

[babcock]

Personally I would take a lower dose of the bulk form and drop it if you still get the negative effects. There's no reason to take something that makes you feel like crap just because other people say it works well for them.

If you really want to pursue ALCAR try another brand. I take one of these everyday upon waking and it's definitely one of the best ingredients in my stack.

[golden1]

thanks. I've got two brands, neither are different in side effects. I feel like I'm missing out on a great supplement with a lot of proven positive effects which is hard to accept when these side effects aren't even reported at all commonly(I found one other person with a similar reaction after searching very hard). I'm actually thinking maybe it's an effect on blood sugar or something? raising my blood sugar to the point where I'm tired and depressed(it's not abnormal normally btw)? I know acetyl-l-carnitine is said to balance blood sugar, which is why I bring this up.. maybe a different reaction for me.

http://www.emedicine...em.htm#symptoms
I surely get:
Thirst
Frequent urination
Urination during the night
Blurry vision
Fatigue or drowsiness
Increased appetite

It's nothing dangerous/damaging though, as far as I can tell, because it goes away within 2 days or less.

I guess I will just have to take ~200-300mg of my bulk, or half or less of the capsules I have and see if it has consistently no side effects. Hopefully that is enough to still get positive effects.

[Wurzel Bagman]

I heard somewhere that too much acetylcholine can lead to depression. Perhaps the ALCAR is boosting your acetylcholine levels too high resulting in depression? Could somebody explain the link between acetylcholine and depression?

[chrono]

Check out this thread for some more info on the choline/depression connection: Those that get depressed from choline

[golden1]

Acetylcholine and Depression

I have gotten depressed the day after large doses of centrophenoxine(~3000mg, experiment), which I'm guessing would be from high acetylcholine. never from galantamine(16mg, just to experiment as well) + cdp-coline though. Maybe acetyl-l-carnitine creates a huge excess.. I guess trying l-carnitine would help somewhat to see if that is the cause.

I did just notice though that carnitine is found in highest amounts(by far) in meats which I pretty much never consume being raised a vegetarian. Maybe my body is adapted for lower amounts? Or I am missing some nutrient from meats that goes along with it? I take a rather good b complex vitamin, maybe something else though..

welcoming any ideas

Edited by chrono, 25 August 2010 - 12:47 PM.
fixed link

[Imagination]

I have had a similar reacton to ALCAR in the past, so ditched it, but decided to give it another go with a different brand and no longer get these side effects. But when i tried it in the past i was supplimenting with DMAE or choline or both, so was must of been way to much acetlcholine causing it or the brand.

I only take Alcar as a nootropic now, and i have dropped choline and DMAE due to them causing slight depression. The DMAE i thought was ok, but i think it was just a so mild that I had gotten used to it.

[chrono]

But when i tried it in the past i was supplimenting with DMAE or choline or both, so was must of been way to much acetlcholine causing it or the brand.

I think it's highly probable it was the combination. ALCAR and choline sources increase ACh through some slightly different mechanisms, so the effect can be very synergistic when you combine them.

@golden1: thanks for that paper!