124 replies to this topic

[nito]

Some people smoke til they laugh so hard they throw up. Others vape til they feel it. Thats the real difference. Lower dose marijuana increases Serotonin while higher dose lowers it.

Yupp hate when i throw up. I try to see if my tolerance increases but im still pretty sensitive to it. A few tokes and i feel like im a famous person.

[OpenStrife]

I specifically said the damage is very subtle. It does not damage your neurons in the literal sense like meth or heroin, but by occupying the receptors, it prevents Gaba and Ach from being fully effective, and ultimately results in the downregulation of those systems. Make the connections..... It's not immediate, it's very subtle, and really only matters if you smoke multiple times a week. Interpret however you like. I'm not going to argue saying it makes you dumber, Im just telling you the science behind it. It occupies your Cannabinoid receptors for days at a time and by occupying that receptor it prevents the gaba and ach receptors of the associated neuron from functioning fully and prevents the full effectiveness of Gaba and Ach, and ultimately causes their down-regulation. Interpret it how you like.

Cannabinoid receptors are very small in the brain and are not as abundant as more dominant neurotransmitter receptors. Cannabinoid receptors are actually responsible for regulation of every other neurotransmitter, as the glands in the body produce NATURAL cannabinoids that attach to these receptors to regulate the other primary neurotransmitters. If these receptors are occupied by a substance that the body does not know how to properly get rid of with haste, and especially since it is fat soluable, the cannabinoids from marijuana can massively throw off the regulation of your primary neurotransmiters as the natural cannabinoids are unable to regulate them since the receptors are being taken up by the cannabinoids from marijuana. Every chemical that can attach to a particular receptor has a slightly different effect than another chemical that can attach to the same receptors. The problem with the cannabinoids in marijuana is that after they become psychoactive-INACTIVE, they just sit there, doing nothing, hindering proper neurotransmitter regulation.

To put it simply, but smoking more than a few times a month, your receptors will experience a continuous, yet gradual, down regulation, and will continue to down regulate as long as it remains in your system.

Do the math dude. It wont rot your brain like smoking a bunch of meth in 1 sitting, but overtime is when it really causes serious down regulation, which is why people don't notice it. People don't notice it because the difference between sleeping 1 night and waking up the next morning is neglible. Few people can account for exactly how they felt and operated every single day for an entire month.

It's like small doses of fluoride. A little wont hurt you in the short term, but it's the long term exposure and the accumulation of the overall effect. Like somebody slicing away bits and bits of your brain, at such a small rate that you don't even notice, but if you compare long term results, the effect is obvious.

Edited by OpenStrife, 21 July 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[golden1]

I specifically said the damage is very subtle. It does not damage your neurons in the literal sense like meth or heroin, but by occupying the receptors, it prevents Gaba and Ach from being fully effective, and ultimately results in the downregulation of those systems. Make the connections..... It's not immediate, it's very subtle, and really only matters if you smoke multiple times a week. Interpret however you like. I'm not going to argue saying it makes you dumber, Im just telling you the science behind it. It occupies your Cannabinoid receptors for days at a time and by occupying that receptor it prevents the gaba and ach receptors of the associated neuron from functioning fully and prevents the full effectiveness of Gaba and Ach, and ultimately causes their down-regulation. Interpret it how you like.

Cannabinoid receptors are very small in the brain and are not as abundant as more dominant neurotransmitter receptors. Cannabinoid receptors are actually responsible for regulation of every other neurotransmitter, as the glands in the body produce NATURAL cannabinoids that attach to these receptors to regulate the other primary neurotransmitters. If these receptors are occupied by a substance that the body does not know how to properly get rid of with haste, and especially since it is fat soluable, the cannabinoids from marijuana can massively throw off the regulation of your primary neurotransmiters as the natural cannabinoids are unable to regulate them since the receptors are being taken up by the cannabinoids from marijuana. Every chemical that can attach to a particular receptor has a slightly different effect than another chemical that can attach to the same receptors. The problem with the cannabinoids in marijuana is that after they become psychoactive-INACTIVE, they just sit there, doing nothing, hindering proper neurotransmitter regulation.

To put it simply, but smoking more than a few times a month, your receptors will experience a continuous, yet gradual, down regulation, and will continue to down regulate as long as it remains in your system.

Do the math dude. It wont rot your brain like smoking a bunch of meth in 1 sitting, but overtime is when it really causes serious down regulation, which is why people don't notice it. People don't notice it because the difference between sleeping 1 night and waking up the next morning is neglible. Few people can account for exactly how they felt and operated every single day for an entire month.

It's like small doses of fluoride. A little wont hurt you in the short term, but it's the long term exposure and the accumulation of the overall effect. Like somebody slicing away bits and bits of your brain, at such a small rate that you don't even notice, but if you compare long term results, the effect is obvious.

Cool story, bro Yeah Just kidding, I was hoping you would actually look into it more, silly me. Yeah smoking weed is slowly slicing away bits of my brain, because of downregulation. Seriously stop just saying things and expecting me to take them as fact WHEN I'VE RESEARCHED IT MYSELF OVER MANY YEARS and the results of looking at many studies contradict your silly scare mongering. Sorry again man, I guess you can go on believing it's simple as that and saying its "very subtle" yet also like "slowly chipping away pieces of my brain". And then as I correct parts of your detail lacking description of it's pharmacology you go and act like you had always said those things. And yet you also still have about ummm ZERO citations or anything, I'm just supposed to "do the math." Well I did the math, and you have zero sources except yourself, you present ideas like "continuous downregulation" -- with no limit -- when smoking more than a few times a month..I can only laugh and then sigh at that statement. Also wow, comparing it to fluoride toxicity, nice one! "overtime is when it really causes serious down regulation" - source please and a more useful adjective than serious..which is rather undefined.. like most of what you are saying really... "It's like small doses of fluoride. A little wont hurt you in the short term, but it's the long term exposure and the accumulation of the overall effect. Like somebody slicing away bits and bits of your brain, at such a small rate that you don't even notice, but if you compare long term results, the effect is obvious." - source please : ) and preferably if you could be a bit less vague with your wording of things...long term = ???days/years? obvious = ??? doesn't sound at all like a scientific statement.

Imagine if you were wrong for a second(preferably longer so you realize that you are indeed wrong), that is the best I can do to try to give you a glimsp of reality. Your explanations are repetitive, EXTREMELY oversimplified to the point of being almost useless and to me showing your lack of full understanding rather obviously, and then of course it's all packaged nicely with with no proof/sources/anything.

Also you miss the fact that downregulation isn't AT ALL permanent and that tolerance to weed goes almost completely away for the most part after only like 3 days... so your whole 2 times a month limit was very funny I await to see what mumbo-jumbo you pull out next...(hopefully it includes some citations at least). What kind of pisses me off is that I also get the feeling you didn't even really read my post as there are several things important things I addressed that you just ignored and basically said the same thing again without bothering to consider my thoughts, a shame really.


Also you seem to be unaware of the rather large benefits cannabis produces in regards to brain function and neuroprotection..

Edited by golden1, 21 July 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Downregulation of gaba isn't that bad for memory. It should improve focus. It could cause other problems tho. Tell me openstrife, why do many studies show that even after chronic usage, there are no permanent effects that last longer than residual amounts. Cannabinoids actualy exert their effects through an opioid connection. So memory effects could be similar to opioids. Also cannabis seems to actually increase ach which thus does result in down regulation. This effect would be the same if you took any other ach inhibitor like nootropic for example hypurzine A.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3620017

Please cite sources incase there are any conflicting studies
Im sorry to hear MJ has affected you negatively openstrife.

[OpenStrife]

I've stated my research. You have access to the internet so you can look it up if you wish. I have no desire to change how you live your life, the fact is, the knowledge is out there.

Kevin. Downregulation for gaba is BAD for memory. Substances like L-Theanine, improve focus, by BOOSTING gaba. Gaba is what allows your brain to shut out all of the outside noise that is distracting.

Cannabis has an obvious effect of interfering with ACh. If you've every actually smoked large amounts of weed, you will know, it DOES interfere with memory, especially short-term, which can turn into long term memory defects as memories would have trouble being stored in the short term. A short attention span = low levels of gaba. Decreased memory = low leves of acetylcholine. I need say nothing else.

I am not a Marjuana anti-activtist. I am actually a Medical Marijuana Grower and I supply up to 6 patients and 2 different dispensaries in the LA area. I am the last person to try to go against marijuana. I am a MMJ supporter and a high advocate of it for medical usage. I used to be a very heavy smoker in my teenage years. Marijuana no doubt has medical benefits, but as with any substance, it also has its downsides. I shouldn't have to write a entire essay to convince you.

If you truly cared about finding out if what I am saying is true, then you would look up Marijuana Downregulation or GABA and ACh systems. I'm done with arguing with people who want nothing more than to argue. If you truly cared about learning this information you would look it up yourself. I do not store links of what I research. True research comes from reading hundreds upon hundreds of pages and making connections that other people have failed to make.

Not everything is going to be out there stated plain and clear as "dangerous" or "safe". Sometimes you have to connect the dots yourself, not everything is going to be done for you! You have to look up the effects of a substance and decide for yourself if what it does is harmful. No study on earth is going to say, due to down regulation of so and so neurotransmitter, this substance is harmful.... SCIENCE DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.

I do not have time to argue with kids who obviously haven't taken a slightly sophisticated college course that requires them to think for themselves in their entire life. You cannot skate through life relying on other peoples opinions on whether or not something is safe, or waiting for someone to tell you what to believe. Do the research, find out the actual neuroscience yourself, and draw your OWN conclusions. Go study the purpose of cannabinoid receptors, go study how MJ cannabinoids are fat soluable and stay in the brain(good for patients with pain problems), go study the actual biochemical pathways these cannabinoids effect. Then draw your own conclusion.


I'm not here to tell you what to believe. Have a nice day.

PS, Kevin, Cannabinoids do not exert their effects through the opioid system. If you are referring to the pain relieving effects of Marijuana, that is directly connected to the stimulation of GABA and Acetylcholine receptors. GABA and ACh levels are very critical components that determine the pain tolerance of an individual. GABA helps by inhibiting undesirable sensory input(pain), to a certain extent, and Acetylcholine works against pain primarily in the actual muscles where pain can take place.

Edited by OpenStrife, 21 July 2012 - 04:28 AM.

[golden1]

Wow, someone's getting defensive...wonder why..

Not everything is going to be out there stated plain and clear as "dangerous" or "safe". Sometimes you have to connect the dots yourself, not everything is going to be done for you! You have to look up the effects of a substance and decide for yourself if what it does is harmful. No study on earth is going to say, due to down regulation of so and so neurotransmitter, this substance is harmful.... SCIENCE DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.

First the bolded part, thank you for such an enlightening statement, except wait...hold on...All I was saying was that your wording is NOT very scientific at all which is odd considering how much of a self-proclaimed pro you are.
Sometimes you should listen to what other people have to say... could help. But you're obviously a master at this, and youre obviously the only one who has researched anything on one of the most common drugs, so you couldn't be wrong(I wish I had an ego as big as yours bro!). Never said science worked like anything, but one way science doesn't work is when people post things as fact when they aren't fact and then it gets spread around as factual. You're acting rather silly and wow has your high horse gotten much taller...with this next paragraph:

I do not have time to argue with kids who obviously haven't taken a slightly sophisticated college course that requires them to think for themselves in their entire life. You cannot skate through life relying on other peoples opinions on whether or not something is safe, or waiting for someone to tell you what to believe. Do the research, find out the actual neuroscience yourself, and draw your OWN conclusions. Go study the purpose of cannabinoid receptors, go study how MJ cannabinoids are fat soluable and stay in the brain(good for patients with pain problems), go study the actual biochemical pathways these cannabinoids effect. Then draw your own conclusion.

I bolded the most insulting part and childish thing(simply because wow! That one part really tells a lot about your character...), but the whole paragraph is completely off topic. Here I am, having done so much research(how many goddamn times do I have to say it?) and I am thinking for myself. That IS EXACTLY what I am doing...So I'm not sure what the point of that paragraph was except to be offensive and egocentric(you obviously have enough time to argue with "kids"(lol wtf) as you have been, yet very poorly). See now here is where things get even more silly. When I realize your interpretation is wrong because believe it or not, I thought for myself all about every facet I could find on the characteristics of weed a long time ago and now instead of just accepting your source-less shit..(which you keep posting yet ofc, "you're not here to tell us what to believe")..yet when I bring it to your attention that you are wrong with your farfetched conclusion, all I get is the same thing rehashed, it being clear you didn't even consider my tips I gave a long time ago to why you are jumping to conclusions.

Anyway, like i've said forever I HAVE RESEARCHED IT... and came to vastly different conclusions just like many authors of the studies compared to your conclusion.

I'm arguing with you because you are wrong(at the very least in several important places) and you are telling people false information as facts(where was your think for yourself mantra then?)....and WOW more vague assertions and still you can type all this shit out and yet refuse to cite any source......because "we all have access to the internet!" As if it would be hard at all, if your statements were fact to find a couple studies that back up your claim that getting high slowly and perpetually downregulates receptors in your brain to the point where you can make a analogy to slowly slicing bits of your brain out or flouride toxicity...or calling it "serious" and whatever else.

Guess what man? I can't find a study which says anything like that or close to it! Go figure! Also, this would be common knowledge if it was near as "serious" as you claim as fact. Really though if nothing else this should be a rather big clue...for you..that your little theory youre so attached to is incomplete and mostly not factual or the facts are being interpreted wrongly by you. Also don't give me the anecdotal: "I know tons of people who smoke weed who ended up this way!" I explained three reasons why those anecdotes are not reliable in the slightest.

Kevin. Downregulation for gaba is BAD for memory. Substances like L-Theanine, improve focus, by BOOSTING gaba. Gaba is what allows your brain to shut out all of the outside noise that is distracting.

that would be relative to how much GABA activity you started with naturally or via your diet/etc. At least if common sense applies, which I see no reason why it wouldn't) you have an internet connection go look up why I'm right, I'm too lazy to sit around helping some kids who can't think for themselves :P. No wonder your vote thingy appears to be a negative 1... lmao.


Anyway can you please leave or something? Instead of posting more "facts" and 0 sources with your really lame insulting excuse. Your whole post chastises me for not doing research, while acting like I'm some idiot, yet all of those things you mentioned I have indepth knowledge on and much more, which I stated in my like 1st post and every one after.. I'm actually starting to think maybe weed does cause brain damage to some people in particular..*cough*

Oh yeah, lol, You have a splendid day as well kind sir!

[MangekyōPeter]

And once again, I really think that the dosage and the method of consumption really does make a huge difference...

I've seen that for a fact, when I've performed far beyond my "sober" limits by being high, and not just doing something that requires creativity but in most other aspects...
If I get the dosage just right by vaporizing (around 0.05) which is equal to a single puff then I tend to enter "the Zone" which leaves my otherwise inattentive ADHD self to become something FAR more focused and simply better.. I simply "feel" how things should be done correctly... I do not know what causes this state from Marijuana exactly but it sure as hell is REAL for me... And when I'm "IN" it , I would really want OpenStrife to compete with me in anything that is new and requires fast thinking, quick analysis and doing whatever that needs to be done.

Although I'm not saying it's always a Nootropic and if you smoke more than twice a day (at the miniscule 0.05g dosages) it does start to have reverse effects that I wouldn't exactly call nootropic which turn into really severe brain fog and short term memory problems if you take the dosages up a notch and smoke like an OZ a month or even worse - per week... But the way I've been smoking it for the past 2 years (vaporizing) has definitively showed me that weed has more nootropic effects than those of most of the nootropics discussed here (and i've tried quite a few of them).. Nothing is as good.

And it also DEPENDS vastly on the type of marijuana as I really cannot become lazy and like just chill in a couch and do nothing while I'm high on a sativa dominant strain.. and I just simply do whatever that I was doing before that but- BETTER. Maybe it's because i'm ADHD and this gives some "motivational interest" in whatever I'm doing but still.. It works wonders for me.. and I've pulled off feats that I would definitely call extraordinary while I've been high, on multiple occasions.

Edited by marekso, 21 July 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Gaba lowers norepinphrine http://forums.phoeni...nephrine.11726/
norepinphrine is one of the main chemicals for focus and attention. But Perhaps it depends on your own bodies chemistry. Too much could need control.

If cannabinoids don't exert their effects through the opioid receptors, why do studies show that when you administer an opioid antagonist that all memory deficits are reversed?

Marijuana abuse is not nootropic, but short usage has completely changed me as a person. That short vaping use is what is benefical, but I see most improvements from things that require creativity or problem solving.

Another note that no one has mentioned is that marijuana is a great cerebral vasodialator!

Openstrife, im not here to argue with you, but please link me the studies you are talking about because I am curious.

Edited by kevinseven11, 21 July 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.

Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)

If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.

LOL!

You would know right? Just because you suck at doing things high or have some stupid stigma against it.... doesn't mean I have the same handicap as you do. And I don't try to be rude, but are you seriously trying to tell me because I was high my computer programs are definitely not complex. Source or STFU? I mean this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard said as a blanket statement... Have you ever been high? You realize that you can think almost completely normally when high....riiiiight? It would have no impact on making me UNABLE TO CODE "COMPLEX" PROGRAMS.. Wait.. hahahah have you ever even programmed before? What I am trying to say is that you're an idiot pretty much, sorry I guess I don't know how else to respond to such insulting nonsense except like this.

PS: "than" is for comparisons, "then" is the word you are looking for. YW.

Listen golden child, im not going to diss you up because the mods are going to ban me. Like they just did for two months. Then is used for passage of time you dumb fuck. And im not going to ask you for source code because your just going to copy and paste. Yeah i know a bit about programming since i am currently doing an undergraduate in computer engineering. See you dont even have the prerequisites to get in to that program, so STFU? Thank you. What i could do is give you a set of instructions for a computer algorithm, you can smoke up your weed like the little pothead you are, get all high and shit cause you have trouble coping with reality. You know they have a name for people like you, they're called addicts. My handicap? Lol thats some funny shit. I dont do drugs and I'M the handicapped one. You know i love how potheads will fight to the death to defend their habits, classiC signs of an addict. We can do it right here since the posts are instant. Lets see if you can write a first year computer engineering algorithm high. You can prove to everyone here and me that you CAN write code high, i wont make it complex either. Just a simple translation of a mathematical formula to code, simple. Something not easily googable, what do you say? Or STFU! 

Edited by 1thoughtMaze1, 23 July 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[golden1]

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.

Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)

If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.

LOL!

You would know right? Just because you suck at doing things high or have some stupid stigma against it.... doesn't mean I have the same handicap as you do. And I don't try to be rude, but are you seriously trying to tell me because I was high my computer programs are definitely not complex. Source or STFU? I mean this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard said as a blanket statement... Have you ever been high? You realize that you can think almost completely normally when high....riiiiight? It would have no impact on making me UNABLE TO CODE "COMPLEX" PROGRAMS.. Wait.. hahahah have you ever even programmed before? What I am trying to say is that you're an idiot pretty much, sorry I guess I don't know how else to respond to such insulting nonsense except like this.

PS: "than" is for comparisons, "then" is the word you are looking for. YW.

Listen golden child, im not going to diss you up because the mods are going to ban me. Like they just did for two months. Then is used for passage of time you dumb fuck. And im not going to ask you for source code because your just going to copy and paste. Yeah i know a bit about programming since i am currently doing an undergraduate in computer engineering. See you dont even have the prerequisites to get in to that program, so STFU? Thank you. What i could do is give you a set of instructions for a computer algorithm, you can smoke up your weed like the little pothead you are, get all high and shit cause you have trouble coping with reality. You know they have a name for people like you, they're called addicts. My handicap? Lol thats some funny shit. I dont do drugs and I'M the handicapped one. You know i love how potheads will fight to the death to defend their habits, classiC signs of an addict. We can do it right here since the posts are instant. Lets see if you can write a first year computer engineering algorithm high. You can prove to everyone here and me that you CAN write code high, i wont make it complex either. Just a simple translation of a mathematical formula to code, simple. Something not easily googable, what do you say? Or STFU!

started reading. stopped after a bit... maybe another time. for now I'm really just thinking "What the fuck?"

edit: I have nothing to prove to you ... lmao. And I wouldn't even try as proving something to you is pointless. Not to mention things can be complex in an infinite amount of ways, so your little test is bullshit. sorry. Maybe someone else wants to play annoying games with you.

Also wanted to add: I'm telling you this honestly, for your own good, you appear to be angry and judgmental for no reason, at all times; Hopefully you can get out of that state of mind. My luck goes to you!

Edited by golden1, 23 July 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[kevinseven11]

http://blogs.laweekl...le_iq_study.php

[MangekyōPeter]

Wow, nice study kevinseven! Just goes to show how the whole weed "situation" really is..

[1thoughtMaze1]

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.

Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)

If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.

LOL!

You would know right? Just because you suck at doing things high or have some stupid stigma against it.... doesn't mean I have the same handicap as you do. And I don't try to be rude, but are you seriously trying to tell me because I was high my computer programs are definitely not complex. Source or STFU? I mean this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard said as a blanket statement... Have you ever been high? You realize that you can think almost completely normally when high....riiiiight? It would have no impact on making me UNABLE TO CODE "COMPLEX" PROGRAMS.. Wait.. hahahah have you ever even programmed before? What I am trying to say is that you're an idiot pretty much, sorry I guess I don't know how else to respond to such insulting nonsense except like this.

PS: "than" is for comparisons, "then" is the word you are looking for. YW.

Listen golden child, im not going to diss you up because the mods are going to ban me. Like they just did for two months. Then is used for passage of time you dumb fuck. And im not going to ask you for source code because your just going to copy and paste. Yeah i know a bit about programming since i am currently doing an undergraduate in computer engineering. See you dont even have the prerequisites to get in to that program, so STFU? Thank you. What i could do is give you a set of instructions for a computer algorithm, you can smoke up your weed like the little pothead you are, get all high and shit cause you have trouble coping with reality. You know they have a name for people like you, they're called addicts. My handicap? Lol thats some funny shit. I dont do drugs and I'M the handicapped one. You know i love how potheads will fight to the death to defend their habits, classiC signs of an addict. We can do it right here since the posts are instant. Lets see if you can write a first year computer engineering algorithm high. You can prove to everyone here and me that you CAN write code high, i wont make it complex either. Just a simple translation of a mathematical formula to code, simple. Something not easily googable, what do you say? Or STFU!

started reading. stopped after a bit... maybe another time. for now I'm really just thinking "What the fuck?"

edit: I have nothing to prove to you ... lmao. And I wouldn't even try as proving something to you is pointless. Not to mention things can be complex in an infinite amount of ways, so your little test is bullshit. sorry. Maybe someone else wants to play annoying games with you.

Also wanted to add: I'm telling you this honestly, for your own good, you appear to be angry and judgmental for no reason, at all times; Hopefully you can get out of that state of mind. My luck goes to you!

Yeah you're right. I am angry. And for no good fucking reason either. What the fuck?

[golden1]

Did you read the way you wrote anything? or is that just how you are? Because to me it is obviously angrily written or you're purposefully being a huge dick in almost every sentence you wrote. So therefore, yes indeed, What the fuck?


is it just me reading his post like that......some one back me up that it is way over the top? I personally think it would be silly to respond to something written towards me in such a demeaning manner, so like I said before maybe someone else wants to play annoying games with you....





​edit: just remember you started with the incredibly ridiculous blanket statement and are still trying to prove something so ridiculous...My post towards you may be semi inflammatory. but it's just impossible to understand how you could say and believe a statement like that. But I will add thanks for side tracking everything with a pointless blanket statement that is obviously not true, by laws of common sense. ALL I was doing was contributing to the thread how marijuanna as a nootropic HELPED ME, not expecting to have to defend my personal experience against some blanket statement and do a test to prove "complexity" over the internet... hahahah

also:" undergraduate in computer engineering. See you dont even have the prerequisites to get in to that program, so STFU? " lolol ok, and also.... as if something like that was hard to get into in the first place.....

Oh yeah forgot to mention, Im done with this thread, the ignorance is too much to correct in some instances and it just leads to dumb shit like this which I don't enjoy being a part of at all.

Edited by golden1, 23 July 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Did you read the way you wrote anything? or is that just how you are? Because to me it is obviously angrily written or you're purposefully being a huge dick in almost every sentence you wrote. So therefore, yes indeed, What the fuck?


is it just me reading his post like that......some one back me up that it is way over the top? I personally think it would be silly to respond to something written towards me in such a demeaning manner, so like I said before maybe someone else wants to play annoying games with you....





​edit: just remember you started with the incredibly ridiculous blanket statement and are still trying to prove something so ridiculous...My post towards you may be semi inflammatory. but it's just impossible to understand how you could say and believe a statement like that. But I will add thanks for side tracking everything with a pointless blanket statement that is obviously not true, by laws of common sense. ALL I was doing was contributing to the thread how marijuanna as a nootropic HELPED ME, not expecting to have to defend my personal experience against some blanket statement and do a test to prove "complexity" over the internet... hahahah

also:" undergraduate in computer engineering. See you dont even have the prerequisites to get in to that program, so STFU? " lolol ok, and also.... as if something like that was hard to get into in the first place.....

Oh yeah forgot to mention, Im done with this thread, the ignorance is too much to correct in some instances and it just leads to dumb shit like this which I don't enjoy being a part of at all.

Yeah I apologize to you, and on that note to Scienceguy, SunshineFrost, Hebbeh.. And a few others whose names i cant remember right now. 

The way I went about everything in the past few months has been f@&ked. Im not going to sit here and explain myself because i dont fully get it, but What happened, happened and could not have happened any other way.

[golden1]

It's cool dude. I understand, its the internet we all catch people at bad times sometimes, I'm glad you had the thought/courage(lol) to apologize.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Thanks

[kevinseven11]

So anywayss.....
7 straight days of marijuana use improves BDNF mRNA 10 fold! While one use doesn't have a change.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15857384

[gamesguru]

Not to go against kevin, and not sure if this has been posted already, but it's surely worth reiterating. Conflicting studies cast doubt upon the validity of such conclusions as those in kevin's last study; for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2791800/,

Δ⁹-THC increased serum BDNF levels in healthy controls but not light users of cannabis. Further, light [chronic] users of cannabis had lower basal BDNF levels.

Their definition of light might be another man's definition of heavy, but this shows that a decline in BDNF might be attributable to cannabis use.


Edit:

Conflicting studies on CBD and BDNF:

1) CBD increases BDNF (in unhealthy rats): http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19939866

2) CBD has no effect upon (hippocampal) BDNF levels (in healthy mice): http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2823358/


Edit2:

Interesting article outlining one of the possible mechanisms (basically fear enhancement) through which marijuana exacerbates paranoia: http://healthland.ti...s-are-paranoid/.

Edited by dasheenster, 26 July 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[kevinseven11]

CBD isn't the only chemical acting of CB2 Receptors. THC probably activates them more than CBD (in any given joint). (My guess)

Edited by kevinseven11, 26 July 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[gamesguru]

If you smoke cannatonic #4 (which is my new favorite strain), which tests at 13.4% CBD and 0.6% THC, a joint will give you a substantial dose of CBD. Just to reiterate what has been said already, I also prefer vaping (volcano vape, or a homemade one using a heat gun), and believe it to be much superior in both health qualities and in accurately dispensing doses.

Older research suggests that CBD has very low affinity for CB2 receptors (http://www.freedomis...at-time-forgot/).
See:

CBD does not activate CB2 receptors at a reasonable concentration.

Newer research implicates it as an antagonist of both CB1 and CB2: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2189767/ & http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2219532/.
See:

CBD displays unexpectedly high potency as an antagonist of CB1/CB2 receptor agonists in CB1- and CB2-expressing cells or tissues, the manner with which it interacts with CB2 receptors providing a possible explanation for its ability to inhibit evoked immune cell migration.

and:

We have also shown that cannabidiol can antagonize cannabinoid receptor agonists in this tissue with a greater potency than we would expect from its poor affinity for cannabinoid receptors.

Edited by dasheenster, 26 July 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[kevinseven11]

If its an antagonist of CB2, why would we expect it to raise BDNF?

[gamesguru]

CB2 receptors seem to partake of a contradictory character, in that activation and antagonism (or, more pronounceably, inverse agonism) both may raise (or may lower) BDNF. Though conflicting studies make me wonder if either effect is real, or accurately documented and substantiated.

From: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2936848/,

Overexpression of CB₂ receptors resulted in decreased depressive-like behaviours in the TST and NSFT. [consistent with increased BDNF]

vs.

Interestingly, acute administration of AM630 (1 and 3 mg·kg⁻¹, i.p.) exerted antidepressant-like effects on the FST in WT [consistent with increased BDNF], but not in CB2xP mice. Chronic administration of AM630 for 4 weeks (1 mg·kg⁻¹; twice daily, i.p.) blocked the effects of CMS on TST, sucrose intake, CB₂ receptor gene, BDNF gene and protein expression in WT mice.

One explanation for this could be that CB2 inverse agonism is neurogenic while agonism is neurotoxic, and that as yet undiscovered endogenous CB2 antagonists are more active than agonists (anadamine or 2-AG), and thus, overexpression of CB2 ought to coincide with a greater ability to cope with stress than is natural. This would also explain why AM630 (an inverse CB2 agonist) confers the same anti-depressant-, anti-stress-like effects in wild-type mice.

An aside further muddies the waters, and seems to lessen the likelihood of my proposed explanation:

In addition, no changes in BDNF gene and protein expression were observed in stressed CB2xP mice.

They further report that in mice exposed to stress (via CMS), BDNF deficits are restored via AM630 administration:

The results found led us to speculate that overexpression of CB₂ receptors produces an endophenotype resistant to acute and chronic depressive-like behaviours and basal alterations in BDNF gene expression in the hippocampus. In addition, acute and chronic treatment with AM630 resulted in antidepressant-like effects and reversed the reduction of CB₂ receptor gene expression, BDNF gene and protein expression induced in the hippocampus of [WT?] mice exposed to CMS.

Edit:

From: https://docs.google...._ZS2SieqsnomltA

Under inflammatory conditions, CB2 receptor expression in the brain is enhanced and CB2 receptor agonists exhibit potent anti-inflammatory effects. These findings have prompted research into the CB2 receptor as a possible target for the treatment of neuroinflammatory and neurodegenerative disorders. Neuroinflammatory alterations are also associated with neuropsychiatric disorders and polymorphisms in the CB2 gene have been reported in depression, eating disorders and schizophrenia.

Edited by dasheenster, 27 July 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[evo]

Figured I'd weigh in after recent comments given that I'm a programmer, engineer, and avid MJ supporter.

Some of the best software I've written while high; while my experience below is subjective, this assertion is not as it has been validated by many elite programmers and penetration testers. That said, I believe these beneficial effects are very much dose/delivery-dependent, and like everything there is a cost-benefit matrix.

The Benefits

- Attention to detail is GREATLY enhanced. This may be due to the near "tunnel-vision" brought on by slower hippocampal processing, but nevertheless it makes it much easier to zone in on a specific function or class, and tune out other competing thoughts.
- Conceptualizing complex data structures relative to systemic function becomes significantly easier. When sober it seems as though class interfaces & hierarchies are interpreted via static recall--conversely when high, they appear in a more visuospatial capacity, and I can consciously manipulate their instances in my mind.

The Negatives

- Holding a train of thought, and trying to process complex linear logic becomes much more difficult.
- Managing/organizing/implementing the file structure becomes much more difficult--interestingly while it is significantly easier to conceptualize the program as a sum of its parts at runtime, the actual file hierarchy and code is much less comprehensible when high.


All this to say it seems like MJ has significant potential if used in the right dose, context, and delivery method (vaporizing). I would never choose to program high 100% of the time (probably <20%) but there are certain situations where, for me, it can mean the difference between substandard verbose code, and modular brilliance.

(And it's a fantastic sedative-hypnotic at higher doses--a godsend for someone with a ~28hr circadian rhythm)

Edited by lmlj, 27 July 2012 - 12:52 AM.

[mission780]

As far as I know sativa strains are the best for nootropic effects. I wonder if hydrids (sativa-indica, but sativa dominant) are better or worse for nootropic properties.

What strains of weed or which kinds of sativas give you the best nootropic effects (clear head, good focus, high energy)? So far, the best for me was Sweet Thai and Amnezia Haze. Durban Poison was worse, but I've tried it only once so maybe this specific material was faulty.

Edited by mission780, 12 December 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[mission780]

How to fight increasing tolerance for marijuana when one wants to smoke it regularly (everyday), but in very small amounts?

[mission780]

For the last several months I realized there are big differences in 'nootropic' properties between various strains of marijuana.
My small personal research was about using very small amounts of cannabis (smoked) for cognitive/creative/linguistic enhancement. For this reason I've tried sativa strains mainly and some hybrids with indica as well. One of my favourite were Sweet Thai and Amnesia Haze. I've heard about Durban Poison which is supposed to have very cerebral effects although my experience with it was not so good. However maybe it was due to the low quality of the material I had. I've noticed that there are differences in effects even between the same strains.

Why are there differences in effects between the same strains? I don't know anything about growing MJ, but I suppose it must be something connected with it.

Have you found some other strains of marijuana that work well as 'nootropics'? What are they? Do you prefer 100% sativa or hybrids for this purpose?

I'd appreciate your feedback!

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I've found more sativa-heavy strains to be the best as far as increasing creativity. Still have not come to a good conclusion as to why.

Cannabis is really 80+ drugs at once, in varying amounts depending on the strain, with THC and CBD only being the major ones. From a pharmacology perspective, it's an absolute clusterfuck to figure out.

From a tolerance prevention perspective, I've found selegiline potentiates quite well with reasonably infrequent cannabis use. Of course yadayada had a panic attack on the same combo, but I only do cannabis on beta blockers, which I highly recommend also.

[mission780]

I've found more sativa-heavy strains to be the best as far as increasing creativity. Still have not come to a good conclusion as to why.

Cannabis is really 80+ drugs at once, in varying amounts depending on the strain, with THC and CBD only being the major ones. From a pharmacology perspective, it's an absolute clusterfuck to figure out.

From a tolerance prevention perspective, I've found selegiline potentiates quite well with reasonably infrequent cannabis use. Of course yadayada had a panic attack on the same combo, but I only do cannabis on beta blockers, which I highly recommend also.

Most cannabis' reviews recommend sativa for a 'cerebral', 'energetic', 'creative' high. Also as far as I know it's also sativa that is most frequently used in medical patients (exception when some specific indica's properties are needed) as it allows people to function well during the day (no lock couch effect of indica).

As for selegiline (I have experience only with very small amounts - about 1mg [1/4 of the tablet] two times a week) I had completely opposite experience - first of all the effect of marijuana was diminished and secondly I had less desire to smoke (I've heard selegiline is used to help giving up smoking tobacco, but some believe it can work in this way for marijuana, too).

Can you give specific names of the sativa strains you found most clear-headed/energetic/creative?

[golden1]

At first when I was looking at my weed usage in the past I was only focused on the negatives. Recently I realized that weed really helped/made me become interested in several different things over the years I used it regularly. I thought maybe something else changed that made me lose interest, but when I started smoking again I noticed my motivation slowly came back. These things(hobbies I guess) included programming(web, games, visualizations), music production, animation, and photography. Also general wikipedia reading, especially related to the brain and pharmacology. These things still interest me when I haven't been smoking, but it is pretty obvious that the driving force behind getting proficient and constantly fiddling around with them was from weed.

Of course there are tons of people that smoke regularly and all they do is watch tv shows and such.. so I guess your mileage may vary. I would think the important part is to find constructive things that you would enjoy doing high and that way you won't start sitting around doing nothing.
For me strains&sativaVSindica don't seem to make that big of a difference, I prefer sativa, but pretty much all of the weed I've had has a similar benefit. Don't get "stupid" high. Trial and error might be the best way to see how much you really need to smoke to get the positives.