124 replies to this topic

[Wurzel Bagman]

That's interesting Bobmann, can you elaborate on what these positive "turning points" are or is it just one of those things that only you can really know? Also, how much do you use, how often and do you smoke it?

I've been titrating the very minimal amount that i use down even further. I'm trying to see how little i can use while still feeling slightly different. It's gotten to the point where i take a single small pinch (0.05grams) and take one hit from the vape at 200C and in 5-10 mins i just feel great. Not high. I think i've approached the dose that many studies are finding to be beneficial.

[bobman]

That's interesting Bobmann, can you elaborate on what these positive "turning points" are or is it just one of those things that only you can really know? Also, how much do you use, how often and do you smoke it?

I've been titrating the very minimal amount that i use down even further. I'm trying to see how little i can use while still feeling slightly different. It's gotten to the point where i take a single small pinch (0.05grams) and take one hit from the vape at 200C and in 5-10 mins i just feel great. Not high. I think i've approached the dose that many studies are finding to be beneficial.

Hey,

I wrote out a detailed explanation, and decided not to post it. I don't think it is something that can be duplicated, mostly because you would have to know me, and have faith in my knowledge & perspective to determine whether or not I was full of shit. As I was reading it over, I felt it would leave me wide open to ridicule, and I felt vulnerable for that. Read with a cynical mindset it could came across like the ramblings of a delusional, or some new-age hippie infatuated with mysticism or meta-science. All I can tell you is that the process is a synthesis of the knowledge I acquired from studies on changes in gene expression & morphology caused by non-medicative modalities (meaning introspection, meditation, exercise), combined with a unique (at least unique in my personal sphere) physical sensation of brain activity, with enough granularity and consistency to form useful correlations. I don't know how this physical awareness is possible, but from what I've read it could be related to some kind of high receptor density in my blood vessels, now formed into a tactile synesthesia. Daily meditation, what I practice is a personalized transcendental, is the architect. The pot is a conduit or mortar that I use between 1 and 5 times every 2-3 months, the time periods change because once these "jumps" happen I need to spend much time training myself to retain the expansion during normal, sober life, it is sometimes ominously difficult and frustrating. When I feel I've hit a roadblock, I do a high meditation. It takes ~4-6 hours. I also very rarely drink, only a few times a year, and employ neurogenic & anti-stress/balancing botanicals. Beyond this explanation I don't have the desire and energy to explain and defend the process and result. If you want to pm me, I can send what I wrote, but I'd ask that you don't repost it, and warn you that it may not make any sense.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Marijuana and meditation go hand in hand imo. I listen to many different meditation audio programs like holosync, lifeflow and hemisync while high and they are much deeper and are far more effective for me. I think that meditation may be better since cannabis already has your brain producing a lot more alpha waves.

I think the reason that cannabis improves my focus and general cognitive function in low doses (25mg @ 175C in the vape) is that i have ADD. I read this about ADD and weed today :

Scientists have studied electrical activity in the frontal lobes of the brain in Marijuana users using event-related potential measurements (ERP). activity). However with increasing frequency of use there was a growing problem in the parietal area of the brain with slower speed of information processing.

Its interesting. AND it makes sense. If ADD people have overactive parietal lobes, then it makes sense, that something that can calm that lobe, like marijuana, would actually help them. In the case of normal people, frequent use would be bad, but for ADD people, frequent use would calm them.

So, the next question is, does marijuana help ADHD people, who have problems with their frontal lobes? How much marijuana would these people need? Maybe, the dose of marijuana, that can affectively stimulate the frontal lobes, is higher, than the dose that is needed to calm the parietal lobes.

What we really need, is someone to do testing with brain scanning machines. I would be interested to see the effect on the different lobes, with different amounts and strains of marijuana.

Lately i've been wondering how beneficial dual n back training would be if you do it just after using cannabis. Since marijuana can impair short term and working memory temporarily, what do you think would happen if you undergo the challenging working memory training while you are challenged. Would you perhaps be extra sharp when you aren't high? I think ill start a DNB routine and see for myself!

[owls]

i'm in the same boat as the first poster. it all has to do with your mindset/what you expect to happen. cannabis is a beautiful thing. remember it's a mild psychedelic. extremely helpful medicine for me personally

[Wurzel Bagman]

I had an idea regarding cannabis, REM suppression and learning that i wanted to bounce off someone. So it's well known that REM sleep is very important in memory consolidation and learning. Infants and children spend a far greater period of their sleeping lives in REM sleep. REM is the cycle of sleep when the brain is most active doing whatever it is that it does and uses the most energy during a nights sleep.

It's well known that cannabis suppresses one's REM sleep. If i go to bed high i generally am out like a light and wake up in the morning feeling like i slept really deep without any dreams. However, the next night (or nap during the day) I have a huge increase in REM sleep to make up for a night short of REM. This is the REM rebound effect. It feels like i dream the whole night with vivid dreams. I generally wake up feeling tired from dreaming too much!

Now since REM is ideal for learning i was thinking what happens if you have 1 or 2 nights suppressing it with cannabis and then the next day do a bunch of learning or practicing of whatever you want to become good at. This way you can take advantage of saved up REM to aid in learning something quickly. So if you're going to school you can plan to study the night before you're due for a lot of REM and your brain would have ideal conditions to store your learning experiences.

What do you guys think?

[NR2(x)]

I understand that REM plays a rather selective role in enhancing associative learning. Associative learning plays important roles in intergration of working memmory into thought structure. It is the process where by the executive functions gain context. Its really important, Its a highly complex topic,
What you describe is plausiable, the tiredness is a feature of enhance REM. THe test would have to be based on creative intergration rather than memorisation etc, to gain benefit. Its to temporal for me to draw conclusions. I wonder what others think.

[bugasman]

I want to get rid of Ritalin. I'm in my 3º month on Ritalin. I started to use due to my procrastination, hyperactivity and anxiety. The only benefit I had from Rit was euphoria that stimulates me to do boring tasks like study. Not everytime on Rit I can sit and study. I'm easy hypnotized under Ritalin. If I'm in the computer, is hard to get out of the screen. If I'm watching TV my eyes rarely blink. Ritalin transforms me in zoombie. Over the day I get very irritaded, anti-social and I experience emotional swings (euphoric-maniac-SuperHero-depressed-zoombie-feeling like shit). Sometimes I get headaches and insomnia. My dose is low, 2x normal Ritalin 10 mg, 5:30am and 5:00pm.

Another problem with Rit. I'm very mathematical. I do calculations and other problems in my head. Under Ritalin its hard to calculate in my head. Is that a creative process? Because some people notice that creativity decrease using Ritalin. So I want to give up the pills. What is the solution?

Marijuana!!!

I bought a vaporizer (magic-flight). I experimented with little dose, just 2 hits (morning-night) to not get the fun high and alucinate. A little dose to relax. It's like MJ puts me in normal mode. My real problem is GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) with Hyperactivity. Under MJ, I get very social, calm, in the now, my senses improves, my nose wake up and odor is perceived, libido increases, my hands warm... Vaporizer is good because it don't produce odor and the effect is different, more clean... Another benefit, you can control your doses and use much more less MJ. As a nootropic I yet don't know the benefits. Let's see. But if I'm more calm and relaxed, learning is faster and better.

The problem with MJ is abuse. I know many brothers that are very lazy because they smoke a lot of MJ everyday.

I'm certain that MJ is the sacred medicine for anxiety, depression, ADHD... Almost my pot head friends have ADHD and anxiety disorders. They found that MJ is much more better than Ritalin.

Starting today, I will try to abandon Ritalin. I know is hard because the withdrawal symptoms like depression. The regime I will use with MJ is that:

- 2 Hits at 8:00 am
- 2 Hits at 4:20 pm
- 2 Hits at 10:00 pm (before sleep)

Let's see what happens... I will update.
(sorry for my english, I'm from Brazil and don't use translators, just dictionary)

About REM supression. I don't think MJ supresses REM because the day I had MJ I sleep much more profound with very vivid dreams. When I have dreams I think I wake up more energized. Science don't know the truth yet regarding sleep, they are confuse.

Edited by bugasman, 26 September 2010 - 01:37 PM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Thanks for posting this bugasman. It's always reassuring to hear people that use it in a similar manner and have the same great results. I was considering trying Ritalin but after reading your experiences with it and many others around the web i don't think i'll go down that road.

As you mentioned, marijuana abuse is a big problem and is why it gets such a bad reputation. There is so much information out there about negatives of mj abuse that i'll read articles about it and start to question my own use despite the countless benefits i get. I think that vaporizing may be key when it comes to gaining benefits of cannabis. I think smoking marijuana makes it too easy to abuse the substance since it's sort of an all or nothing principal when burning. Vaping allows you to extract small potent amounts without overdoing it.

Regarding the REM suppression, I think it's entirely dose and strain dependent. When i indulge on weekends before i sleep I don't seem to dream at all. When i have just a small amount during the week i do dream.

Good luck on kicking the Ritalin! Keep us posted.

[bugasman]

I don't want to post in the Ritalin threads because my main goal is to promote the benefits of MJ, the sacred and entheogen substance. Benefits that I'm finding now, this month, since I began to notice bad effects from Ritalin and good ones from low doses of vaporized MJ. I know MJ since my 15 years old (I'm 24 now). I never used much, never bought anything until now. I was a casual MJ smoker and used one time a month, some years I used just on weekends and some years I passed without any Marijuana. I used just for fun. But now I want to use it daily, just small doses, vaporized, for health benefits, to treat my ADHD/GAD symptons, and for spiritual benefits, more Chi, energy, meditative mind and balanced chakras. If you abuse MJ, use much, you can become (not everybody) lazy, paranoic and psychotic. For recreational purposes, use it very moderate. To me, abuse is to smoke more than one joint (a normal sized tobacco cigarette) daily. I don't use more than a 1/6 of a normal cigarette in a day. Some guys need super doses (abuse) to alleviate the pain or more dramatic diseases, like cancer, aids, seizures... But for nootropics, use low doses, in this case "less is more". For weekends sex, use 1/4 joint vaporized or smoked, and have the best sex of your life.

I'm trying to quit Ritalin. It's very hard. They say that low doses don't get you addict. I'm using Ritalin for 3 months now, just 20mg not everyday. And I'm addicted to it. Congratulations Novartis (BigPharma), you got me hooked. Sunday and today I failed the cold turkey Ritalin freedom. I had some depression and lazyness those days, yeah it's easy to stand those feelings. But I'm on a hard mission, I have to study everyday like a nut, to get a place at Federal Medical University of my state (imagine graduate without any cost in the most prestigious career - the price is to study a lot to get a good grade and be among the first.). So I had to take Rit to boost my motivation and euphoria to get my study done.

The problem is that not everytime Ritalin makes me study. And when I study under the effect of this medicine, I think my creative processes for learning are blocked. This is crazy. Whithout Rit I learn much more fast, but I'm more distracted and lazy.

Personal Ritalin effects:

positive benefits: I had from Rit are euphoria (sets after 1 hour I ingested the pill and the euphoric effects last just one hour), and more motivation. I think I'm just hiding some form of depression I have.

Neutral benefit: more focused while studying (just for two hours but this focused state slow my natural learning process)

Negatives:
- Sometimes I get very maniac-emotional and lay in my bed to think some absurds ideas that later I regret.
- Hypnosis. If I take Ritalin and go to computer, television or a self talk with myself, I get hypnotized for minutes or hours, and byebye studies...
- Crazy patterns of sleep and tiredness. Ritalin alerts me, but when the effects pass, I'm very tired. Since taking Ritalin I don't have a sleep schedule-routine.
- Affects my learning process. I think Rit disable my natural fast creative process to learn
- Some ticks and irritabilities
- Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD)? Sometimes I have to read the same matterial many times, even knowing what I already read and learn.
- Super very mega anti-social. Like a robot-zoombie. Cold hands and jitters near people. Increased Social phobia?
- Rebound effect: Depression, anger, headache, insomnia, more anxiety and hiperactivity.
- Others that I don't remember...

In my next post I will write the benefits of MJ. In resume, the effects of low doses of MJ are the opposite of the negatives from Ritalin.

[owls]

i know this might piss some people off for me to say this without a solid explanation, but marijuana in the proper dosage IS a nootropic... i FIRMLY believe that

i'll come back later to see if this generated any discussion and i'll try to better articulate how i personally feel and have experienced how this works

oh and on the subject of methylphenidate, i've used a lot of it and can testify that it is dirty shit. definitely causes reduced creativity/decreased socialization, and every other negative effect you mentioned

Edited by owls, 04 October 2010 - 07:27 PM.

[SE102]

i know this might piss some people off for me to say this without a solid explanation, but marijuana in the proper dosage IS a nootropic... i FIRMLY believe that

i'll come back later to see if this generated any discussion and i'll try to better articulate how i personally feel and have experienced how this works

oh and on the subject of methylphenidate, i've used a lot of it and can testify that it is dirty shit. definitely causes reduced creativity/decreased socialization, and every other negative effect you mentioned

Try vaporising and youll get all the good cannabinoids without all the dirty secondary ones and more positive effects. What is your dosage of MJ and how are you taking it? Sorry If I havent read the thread but I believe you. Some people like math while buzzed, etc.

Edited by SE102, 04 October 2010 - 08:08 PM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Hey so just an update on my current regime that I am absolutely thrilled with. It's the "3" Regime:

0.03 grams cannabis x 3 times daily
Piracetam (800mg caps) x 3 times daily
Aniracetam (300mg caps) x 3 times daily
Lecithin capsule x 3 times daily

I usually vape 0.03 grams (get just the cannabinoids, no burnt chemicals) morning, afternoon, and night. This may seem like too many times to be healthy but keep in mind that the day's total amount is only 5½ths of an average joint's worth. I get a slight buzz from the cannabis but don't lose any coordination, memory, ability to focus. The smart drugs make up for any acetylcholine reduction from the weed.

Overall i become super productive around the house and in social situations. I become very goal focused and actually work towards them instead of procrastinating a lot. I have more energy and feel very little (if any) daytime fatigue. My empathy increases and I can view thoughts in more perspectives and deal with anything much quicker and with less mental effort. Test anxiety is completely gone while writing midterms and quizzes.

Edited by chrono, 31 January 2011 - 06:24 AM.
we don't need to see the pictures

[Wurzel Bagman]

I've recently come to the conclusion that I am most definitely somewhere along the bipolar spectrum. Marijuana can quickly and effectivel treat both my depression and hypomania. Bugasman, I suspect that you may also lie on the spectrum somewhere.

As to the nootropic properties, they may only be expressed in people with some form of bipolar and detrimental to anyone with on the schizophrenic spectrum.

A recent study on bipolar and marijuana and the effects on cognition:

Opposite relationships between cannabis use and neurocognitive functioning in bipolar disorder and schizophrenia
Abstract
Background Cannabis use is associated with altered neurocognitive functioning in severe mental disorders, but data are still inconclusive and there are no studies of bipolar disorder. The aim of this study was to investigate the association between cannabis use and neurocognition in bipolar disorder compared with schizophrenia in a naturalistic setting.
Method A total of 133 patients with bipolar disorder and 140 patients with schizophrenia underwent neuropsychological assessments and clinical characterization including measures of substance use. Relationships between cannabis users and neurocognitive function were explored in the two diagnostic groups. Possible interactions between diagnosis and cannabis use were investigated, and findings were controlled for possible confounders.
Results In bipolar disorder subjects, cannabis use was associated with better neurocognitive function, but the opposite was the case for the schizophrenia subjects. There was a statistically significant interaction effect of diagnosis and cannabis use on focused attention (p=0.019), executive functioning (verbal fluency – set shifting) (p=0.009), logical memory-learning (p=0.007) and on logical memory-recall (p=0.004). These differences in neurocognitive function could not be explained by putative confounders.
Conclusions The findings suggest that cannabis use may be related to improved neurocognition in bipolar disorder and compromised neurocognition in schizophrenia. The results need to be replicated in independent samples, and may suggest different underlying disease mechanisms in the two disorders.
(Received April 28 2009)
(Revised August 18 2009)
(Accepted September 15 2009)
(Online publication November 06 2009)

http://journals.camb...ine&aid=7826348

I can definitely see improvements in my memory recall, attention, verbal fluency, reading comprehension, among others on a light dose of cannabis. I have determined this through a great deal of lumosity training over a period of over 6 months. I tend to have my highest gains (only gains in some of the games) in brain power index while high. I do retain partial gains while sober. When i have periods of no cannabis my brain power index levels off or sometimes drops a little.

If you think you may have bipolar, hypomania followed by low mood or depression marijuana may be a suitable treatment for your condition. For me personally exercise, daily meditation, omega 3's high in EPA, consistent wake up time in the morning, sunlight in the morning (I use a blue light box from Philips) and of course micro doses of cannabis vaporized daily is the best treatment for me and if followed strictly is practically a cure.

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 14 November 2010 - 04:36 PM.

[ritch]

I guess we all react differently but I don't think (at least for me) weed is a nootropic. I smoke about .6 grams of weed a day in 3 or 4 joints. I like the relaxed feeling it gives me and it's great for sleep. I even smoke before the gym now. That's not something I'd recommend for someone who's just starting out training or smoking. I've been training seriously since the age of 12 so over 20 years here and been smoking pretty much every day sine the age of 22.

For those of you using your microdoses... Are you still at that level of dosing or have you increased your intake? It reminds me when I first started and would tell people how little I need to get high, then before you know it, you've smoking 7 grams every 5 days lol...

When I think of nootropics I think of optimal brain fuction. Weed makes most of us lethargic and usually procrastinate after getting high.

Whatever works for you I guess...

[Wurzel Bagman]

I guess we all react differently but I don't think (at least for me) weed is a nootropic. I smoke about .6 grams of weed a day in 3 or 4 joints. I like the relaxed feeling it gives me and it's great for sleep. I even smoke before the gym now. That's not something I'd recommend for someone who's just starting out training or smoking. I've been training seriously since the age of 12 so over 20 years here and been smoking pretty much every day sine the age of 22.

For those of you using your microdoses... Are you still at that level of dosing or have you increased your intake? It reminds me when I first started and would tell people how little I need to get high, then before you know it, you've smoking 7 grams every 5 days lol...

When I think of nootropics I think of optimal brain fuction. Weed makes most of us lethargic and usually procrastinate after getting high.

Whatever works for you I guess...

Yes I still do the microdoses and have had great success with them for months. When I found out I could make due with such small amounts my weed dealer was a bit disappointed. Absolutely no tolerance build up for me. Even at 0.03 grams it's too much for me to vape it all at one go. I usually only need 2-3 hits for a mild-moderate buzz. I can even feel it at a single hit. Keep in mind that this is in a vaporizer, not joints and that i use AAA stuff. A little bit goes a long way. Anymore than 0.1 grams in a day is simply too much for me and leads to cognitive impairment and a slight reduction in mood when the high is over.

Lately I haven't even been using it though since I worked out a wonderful supplement regime and just haven't really thought about, needed or wanted any green.

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 17 November 2010 - 07:03 AM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

I would agree whole-heartedly that the strain makes all the difference. To me, the variety of strains and their various effects make cannabis an ever more fascinating drug. I love that you describe the “clean the kitchen” strain. I must have tried the same strain because i often 'suffer' from this atrocious side effect... haha... professorial house cleaning agencies better watch out when cannabis gets legalized! :P

One really cool property of a vaporizer that i don't think people have really focused on much is the ability to control temperature. There are at least 85 cannabinoids that we know of. Not all of these cannabinoids vaporize at the same temperature.

Chemical Molecular Formula Boiling Point
Main
Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) C21H30O2 157 °C (315 °F)
Cannabidiol (CBD) C21H30O2 180 °C (356 °F)
Cannabinol (CBN) C21H26O2 185 °C
Cannabigerol C21H32O2 Unknown Cannabigerol has been found to act as a high affinity α2-adrenergic receptor agonist, moderate affinity 5-HT1A receptor antagonist, and low affinity CB1 receptor antagonist.[1] It also binds to the CB2 receptor, but whether it acts as an agonist or antagonist at this site is unknown.[
Cannabichromene C21H30O2 Unknown Evidence has suggested that it may play a role in the anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis, and may contribute to the overall analgesic effects of medical cannabis.
Cannabicyclol C21H30O2 Unknown
Cannabivarin C19H22O2 Unknown CBV is an oxidation product of tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV, THV).
Tetrahydrocannabivarin C19H26O2 Unknown It has been shown to be a CB1 receptor antagonist, i.e. blocks the effects of THC
Cannabidivarin C19H26O2 Unknown Cannabidivarine (CBDV), also known as cannabidivarol, is a non-psychoactive cannabinoid found in low amounts in Cannabis sativa. It is an analog of cannabidiol (CBD), with the side-chain shortened by two CH2 groups. Under acidic conditions it isomerizes into the psychoactive cannabinoid tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV).
Tetrahydrocannabivarin C19H26O2 Unknown Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV, THV), also known as tetrahydrocannabivarol, is a psychoactive cannabinoid found naturally in Cannabis sativa. It is an analogue of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) with the sidechain shortened by two CH2 groups.
Terpenes
Pinene C10H16 155–156 °C Topical analgesic, ACT inhibitor
Myrcene C10H16 166-168 °C Potent analgesic, anti-inflammatory & anti-biotic. May be synergistic with THC
Delta 3-Carene C10H16 168-169 °C Cypress oil, which is high in D-3-Carene, is used in aromatherapy to dry exess fluids, tears, running noses, excess menstrual flow and perspiration. May be the cause of dry eye and dry mouth.
Limonene C10H16 176 °C, 349 °F Anti-bacterial, anti-fungal & anti-cancer properties
1,8-Cineole(Eucalyptol) C10H18O 176– 177 °C Easily crossed blood brain barrier and triggers a fast olfactory reaction. May be partly responsible for the thought provoking effect of cannabis.
Linalool C10H18O 198 – 199 °C Causes severe sedation. Apparently being tested for anti-cancer properties.
Borneol C10H18O 208 °C, 406 °F (MP) Considered calming medicine by Chinese
Terpineol C10H18O 219 °C, 81-82 °C Reduces mobility (possible link to couch lock, up to 45% in rats)
Pulegone C10H16O 224 °C, 435 °F Expectorant & topical anti-septic
Caryphyllene C15H24 262-264 °C; 129-130 °C Topical anagesic
O-Glycosides of C-Glycosides
Orientin C21H20O11 Unknown
Vitexin C21H20O10 203–204 °C (MP)
Isointexin Unknown
O- Glycosides of Flavinoids
Apigenin C15H10O5 345-350 °C Commonly recognized as to mediate at least part of the chemopreventive action of vegetables and fruits in the cancerous process
Luteolin C15H10O6 Unknown
Quercetin C15H10O7 316 °C May have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties
Kaempferol C15H10O6 276-278 °C Kaempferol consumption in tea and broccoli has been associated with reduced risk of heart disease. An 8-year study found that three flavonols (kaempferol, quercetin, and myricetin) reduced the risk of pancreatic cancer by 23 percent.
Notes
Source 1 Wikepedia
Source 2 Cannabis and cannabinoids: pharmacology, toxicology, and therapeutic potential By Franjo Grotenhermen, Ethan Russo http://books.google....epage&q&f=false
MP = Melting point

One thing that I like trying is vapping cannabis at different temperatures and observing the effects (I think I'll start documenting this in a journal or something) When I vape at 160-170°C I get much more of an energized cerebral high. This is due to the fact that THC's boiling point is 157°C. The other common cannabinoids don't boil off till 180°C (CBD) and 185°C (CBN) So with this principle in mind you can see how vaporizing an indica dominant strain at 160°C will produce effects more like those of a sativa(sativas have a high concentration of THC Vs. CBN/CBD than indicas) If I take this weed that i vapped at 160°C and then use it in the evening at 185°C, it will produce a very heavy sleepy high (it now lacks the THC to be very cerebral)

For me, a sativa or indica act as a nootropic if i take advantage of the temperature gradient effects and use it at a level where I get mainly THC.

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 23 November 2010 - 05:56 AM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Well tonight, after my 3rd dose of cannabis for the day, I reached a milestone in my Lumosity brain training career. For those that aren't aware, Lumosity is a paid brain training website that bases its training games on current neuroscience research. There's a free trial for those that want to give it a try. I checked my stats after a few hours of training tonight. Of the 10 million users I'm now the best in the area of memory, 99th percentile at attention games and 99th percentile overall. I only train at night after i've vaporized my pot. The irony of being a chronic user of the great herb and having such a sharp memory makes me smile inside K, nough bragging :P

What I think might be going on is the increased calculative complexity of the hippocampus property that dasheenster described on the first page of this topic. In other words, the likely increased neurogenisis in the hippocampus is allowing me to store information in my head better. I have noticed that after doing all this training that I can grasp new information and learn things more quickly and with what feels like less mental effort.

I highly recommend brain training to others, and if you have the means/desire to vaporize small amounts of cannabis during the process, all the better. I've been reading a fair bit about brain plasticity lately and am starting to think that cognitive deficits in weed users could be simply because they are not practicing/training their brains while in this alerted state of mind. With adequate training I think it may be possible to stay sharp as a tack and retain that nice creative and sensory edge while high.

Edited by SynapticWeasel, 26 December 2010 - 10:40 AM.

[Wurzel Bagman]

Thanks HDW, I would be interested in hearing about how you fair with the Lumosity training. I'm not certain what strain I'm using right now. I think it may be green crack but since I can't actually grow myself and dealers tend to be unreliable about knowing strain names (my experience is that they make it up on the fly when you ask). But now that you bring it up again, I'll try to make more of an effort of linking what strain I use with my progress on Lumosity. Hopefully that will allow me to tease out what balance between the main cannabinoids offers my best performance on the 5 different game types.

Harvest time would certainly make a difference in the effects of any strain since the trichomes would be in differing stages of development.

I haven't been meticulous about monitoring the different effects of temperature. I generally just vape at 160-200.

The coordinated experiments sounds like an intriguing prospect. The nature of brain training would make it hard to tease out whether our gains are from the pot, the training or any number of other factors, but I would still be down to take a crack at trying.

Positive/neutral emotions makes all the difference to me when training. If I mess up in say a speed matching game then do my old knee jerk reaction of thinking "shoot, damn, fuck" immediately after the mistake, I am about 10 times more likely to mess up again in the next few seconds. I've been working hard to mentally block this reaction and stay neutral during the game. When I make this conscious effort of blocking the emotion and not getting frustrated, it's as if my brain doesn't even notice and just keeps going with the exercise without skipping a beat. So doing this training has been a good practice of patience. The cannabis makes it much easier to not react to mistakes. I think the concepts explained in this youtube video may give clues as to why this may be.


Another emotional trick that I employ is when I see the tally screen at the end of a game and my BPI has gone up I spend extra time starring at it. I fill my mind with as much positive emotion and praise as possible and focus on the green numbers showing my gain. This reinforces the idea that I am making progress. When I play a game and my BPI goes down and I see the red numbers at the end, I pay no attention to them at all and change the screen as quickly as possible. The neutral stance when I make no gain or go down and the extreme positive emotions when I do well really has helped me not give up on the training and really enjoy it. During the first few months I was bummed out when I made little or no progress but now that has changed.

I also always do a Hemi-Sync meditation track after my training to boost my grey matter and give my brain a chance to solidify and go over the new neural circuits I have made during training. http://www.scienceda...51110215950.htm

Meditative audio tracks after cannabis are phenomenal and work very well. If you need help finding some good ones PM me.

All the best in the new year to you too HDW!

Edited by chrono, 31 January 2011 - 07:03 AM.
cultivation pic

[Fudge]

So, is marijuana considered a neurotoxin?

[Spectre]

No, as a matter of fact, THC is a neuroprotective antioxidant. Chronic use of Marijuana decreases blood flow to the brain though, which will in turn impair memory and normal thinking processes. I would take Ginkgo Biloba to counter that negative effect. Another reason why Marijuana can impair short-term memory is because it inhibits the hormone Vasopressin in the brain, but you can fix that issue by taking a vasopressin nasal spray.

[longevitynow]

MJ puts your brain in an Alpha state. Regular users end up with a dominance of these brainwaves to the detriment of more alert Beta brainwaves. The less often you do it, the less likely you are to be moving your brain toward a long-term Alpha state. Many, if not most, long-term users (at least moderate to heavy users) experience some degree of memory impairment (varies a lot between users though). Once a month usage, probably negligible long-term effects on the brain. Many would say once a week is also harmless. But MJ is fat soluble, so it builds up in the brain. Dosage might be a factor. 2-3x a week, it is building up in the system/brain.

[gamesguru]

I've seen a study indicating that marijuana causes growth of neurons in the hippocampus (learning part of the brain). I've also seen studies indicating that marijuana causes a decrease in hippocampal volume. To novice eyes these facts may appear contradictory, but perhaps more efficient networks and circuitry could have more neurons yet occupy less space. That's probably a bit of a stretch.

A few data points I have from personal experience. I notice some trends. People who use it all the time don't give a shit about life, people who use it "responsibly" have some interesting stuff on their minds.
I've come across a few VERY SHARP minds that use it all day. They have a technique where they only use very small doses to stimulate but not depress. It seems they develop near total tolerance to the memory inhibiting effects, and it's just a stimulant to them.

Marijuana is very complicated.

[chrono]

Merged another recent thread into this one, and removed some older posts that were more to do with general usage than the question of cognition.

[Delta Gamma]

Some points that I feel need to be mentioned:

Melatonin: THC is a melatonin releasing agent, possibly playing a part in its neuroprotective and sleep inducing properties
http://humanasemerit...atonin-and-dmt/

GIRK/potassium: THC opens GIRK channels reducing membrane excitability.
http://www.calgarycm...s.htm#461205978

Ca2+: THC is known to inhibit Ca2+ channels from opening via CB1 mediated effects, reducing excitability.

Reduction in GABA induced membrane hyperpolarization, therefore decreasing its inhibition.
http://en.wikipedia....n_of_inhibition

THC has been shown to effect protein kinase C.

It is linked to a reduction in cAMP, which has various effects even within the same cell. Also it would have indirect effects on protein kinase A.
http://en.wikipedia....receptor_type_1

The fact that more cellular mechanisms have not been mentioned in this thread is a little disconcerting, though it is a extremely complex drug.
Here's another thread on THC neuropharmacology: http://www.bluelight...ad.php?t=149852

Here's some reading for those of you who seem a little rusty on the endocannabinoid systerm:
http://www.sciencema...6/5568/678.full

[medievil]

MJ puts your brain in an Alpha state.

Shame it doesnt make me feel very alpha, rather the damn opposite.

[coyote]

Marijuana definitely has nootropic benefits for me. I've developed a regimen where I use it one to three times a week, depending on my schedule, mostly to stimulate creative thinking and sustain intellectual labor. Recently I've been using synthetic cannabinoids, although I prefer a good sativa strain or hashish. I mostly use a vaporizer, although sometimes I eat small quantities or smoke it. Marijuana shifts my perspective; ideas begin to flow; I'm able to confront intellectual problems I've been avoiding; my available vocabulary expands; my focus increases. I'll notice a novel solution to a problem--intellectual, interpersonal, or practical. If I'm teaching, I'll reflect on what's been happening in my classroom and often develop a different approach. I'm more likely to run, do yoga, or lift weights after I smoke; I'm also more likely to organize my photographs or books, clean my house, or cook a complicated meal. Marijuana plays a vital role in my scholarly writing. Most of my research and writing is done sober, of course, but many of the most valuable insights, and the most subtle formulations, come when I'm high.

I take pirecetam and ALCAR most days of the week. I take Ritalin once or twice a week, on days in which I have extensive writing to do. I take Adrafinil on occasion. I drink one cup of coffee a day. But nothing is so likely to jump-start my mind, to generate an acute shift in my mental activity and capacity, as marijuana.

Now the downside: the day after I use it, my mind is foggy. For this reason, I never smoke the day before teaching. I can read, still, but I can't write as well, and I certainly can't lecture, extemporaneously, on complex ideas. My vocabulary and concentration are diminished. Of course, the very fact that my mind is foggy increases my desire to imbibe more, but if I smoke two days in a row, the second day is inevitably less acute. If I smoke two or more days in a row, the general effect is relaxation, a general sense of well-being, and mental spaciness.

All of this means that in order for me to receive a nootropic benefit from marijuana, I have to carefully regulate my usage. I notice a similar phenomenon with Ritalin. The day after I use it, I am less sharp and focused, so I have to carefully plan out my week: which days I want what sorts of effects, which days I'm willing or able to be less productive.

[longevitynow]

I'll repost something I wrote on another thread as this thread seems a lot more active:

I am in the "strongly against daily cannabis use" group. I think if you do it 1x a month, it will probably increase creativity and probably have very little or no downside. Once a week, still good for creativity and to get you in your body for activities that that might be useful (exercise, massage, sex, etc). As it is fat soluble you might begin to accumulate a little in your brain, but less likely to have a dramatic negative effect on your brain. Daily, it is really building up, and numerous studies and more anecdotal evidence says it is bad for your short-term memory.
But if you are doing it, I'm all for nootropics. I'd also suggest doing cognitively complex tasks at least a little while stoned, to keep your edge.

Long ago a young reported asked Bob Dylan if he smoked pot. Dylan responded with a question, "At what age did you start smoking pot?" The reporter answered, 14 or 15 and Dylan responded, "you don't even know how to smoke pot." He was implying that occasional use increases creativity and that regular use just makes you stoned. Something to think about...

[gamesguru]

I'll repost something I wrote on another thread as this thread seems a lot more active:

I am in the "strongly against daily cannabis use" group. I think if you do it 1x a month, it will probably increase creativity and probably have very little or no downside. Once a week, still good for creativity and to get you in your body for activities that that might be useful (exercise, massage, sex, etc). As it is fat soluble you might begin to accumulate a little in your brain, but less likely to have a dramatic negative effect on your brain. Daily, it is really building up, and numerous studies and more anecdotal evidence says it is bad for your short-term memory.
But if you are doing it, I'm all for nootropics. I'd also suggest doing cognitively complex tasks at least a little while stoned, to keep your edge.

Long ago a young reported asked Bob Dylan if he smoked pot. Dylan responded with a question, "At what age did you start smoking pot?" The reporter answered, 14 or 15 and Dylan responded, "you don't even know how to smoke pot." He was implying that occasional use increases creativity and that regular use just makes you stoned. Something to think about...

The important thing is not the frequency of use but the the extent to which you let cannabis "slow you down". I've seen some people turn from productive to drifters. People who could once focus and complete work (conducing research on magnetic processes in metals, so no easy thing) were turned into metaphorical vegetables only capable of staring into space. However, I have also met people who are mentally and physically active despite vaporizing cannabis 5+ times per day.
Really it's your choice to sit down when you get high or to work when you get high. Once you make that choice, it soon becomes a habit and can take you down in life. The key is to keep working and stop procrastinating. I've never seen any real impact in memory in those who use it more than once a day. Just laziness and, in extreme cases, introversion...thus giving the appearance of a stupid, fucked up person. It's not the drug, it's the lifestyle.

[Delta Gamma]

I feel that before people go off claiming nootropic properties, I would like to as them to take some sort of randomized objective test to see if their cognition is affected at all. I've seen far too many people say "I'm smarter on weed than off" or the like, yet as far as I can tell there's more often than not a negative impact in cognition.

I've done this myself using a "test your IQ" puzzle book published by MENSA (a word of advice don't join unless you can deal with extremely cocky people or are very desperate for someone to solve puzzles with), my results were unchanged from baseline with a "low dose" but a "medium dose" had my stores dropping quite significantly.

The cellular mechanisms I listed off earlier are in physiological conditions associated with a decrease in memory and cognition, the inhibition of GABA induced hyperpolarization may be the one exception. I can't say that tolerance might reduce these effects or perhaps modify them, but on the cellular level the most common cannabinoids aren't the best for cognition.

Also, all evidence points for it being a anticholergenic
http://www.sciencedi...e1&searchtype=a

More info on another thread:
http://www.bluelight...ad.php?t=417143

Edited by Delta Gamma, 13 February 2011 - 11:36 PM.

[Delta Gamma]

More info on the THC ACh link:

http://www.sciencedi...15&searchtype=a

http://www.sciencedi...2b&searchtype=a

http://www.sciencedi...b9&searchtype=a

http://onlinelibrary...3996.x/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3620017

http://jpet.aspetjou.../2/339.abstract

My summery is that THC releases ACh and inhibits acetylcholinesterase, while reducing the synthesis of ACh. Though these studies were done on mice and rats, it could explain the cognitive deficits seen in heavy chronic tokers. One study proposed that it was the K+ influx into cholergenic neurons and the resulting disruption that leads to the reduction in ACh synthesis.