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Marijuana as a Nootropic

neurogenesis marijuana cannabinoids

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#61 Psychonaut

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:27 PM

HighDesertWizard points about stain variabilities are still so massively overlooked on this subject on a global scale IMO, even for the people who have replied in this thread about negative experiences from trying it very few times, especially of anxiety, I would almost guarantee are due to the specific material used and simply write it off as 'not for me'. It does not even have to be the specific strain, could be the plant was harvested early meaning higher THC content (higher chance of anxiety/paranoia) and less cannabinoids; common for commercial growers since they want turn over, not properly grown and cured product.

We know there are differences between Indica and Sativa but there are also many differences in variety and effect in the two different types. HighDesertWizard also pointed out the "Dopey", "Slow", "Stupid" stereotypes and that it is due to heavier pot, which is a result of growers world wide having moved indoors over the past decades and growing short flowering time, heavier yielding Indica strains for convenience and commercial reasons. There was basically a massive transition from the 60's-70's of smoking outdoor Sativa's (Thai, Columbian), which can take anywhere from 10-25 weeks to mature into indoor Indica's (Afghan) which can flower in as little as 6 weeks. Most energetic, motivational, social experiences come from specific Sativa dominant plants I believe, I suspect Nootropic benefits as well; although some Sativa strains are notorious for intense mental experiences and heavy paranoia.

Of course this is all somewhat of a generalization, my main reason in replying is to try and make people more aware of how hard it is to be specific about their experiences without good knowledge and experience with the specific plant they are working with; otherwise its use and any knowledge/experience gained is very unreliable.

I am a ex addict, over 10 years ago, used it a few different times for medical reasons over the past 6 years, chronic fatigue syndrome (which is an extensive list of symptoms), and just realized eventually unless I can obtain specific strains from seed and grow them out myself its impossible to get a reliable source of medicine in my case.

dasheenster I am curious as a regular user how much you take this into consideration? Do you try and source specific types? For some I am sure they can achieve regular results with random types but not me.

As you said MJ is very complicated, even in the lab obtaining specific cannabinoid profiles would have its issues (growing/naming) I imagine and probably be a gigantic task over time.

Edited by Psychonaut, 14 February 2011 - 01:32 PM.


#62 Delta Gamma

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:50 PM

As you said MJ is very complicated, even in the lab obtaining specific cannabinoid profiles would have its issues (growing/naming) I imagine and probably be a gigantic task over time.


If you've got the time and the willpower to set up a cheap column chromatography set up so you could easily separate out individual cannabinoids if you have a large amount of cannabis lying around. A 3/4" clear plastic tube, a food processor, some cheap toilet paper (or any sort of bleached paper with no additives), and a bunch of solvent (hexane is what a certain someone used). Your results after getting the technique down would be small vials of essentially one cannabinoid (verified by melting point analysis).

Just some food for thought.

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#63 Psychonaut

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:08 AM

Hi Delta Gamma.

As curious as I am about the chemistry it is beyond me, as are a lot of the conversations on here although I have only just arrived. If I had large quantities sitting around, which I dont and wont anytime soon, it would probably be turned into hemp oil for medicine.

The oil derived from a large amount of plant matter is probably another subject as well, taken orally there have been many claims about its effectiveness in treating Parkinsons, MS, cancer; sadly we are not at the point it seems where this is being done in proper trials.

Edited by Psychonaut, 15 February 2011 - 12:10 AM.


#64 Psychonaut

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:31 AM

I dont know why I thought this was not already underway,

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~wmm066/

#65 Delta Gamma

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 03:13 AM

Hi Delta Gamma.

As curious as I am about the chemistry it is beyond me, as are a lot of the conversations on here although I have only just arrived. If I had large quantities sitting around, which I dont and wont anytime soon, it would probably be turned into hemp oil for medicine.

The oil derived from a large amount of plant matter is probably another subject as well, taken orally there have been many claims about its effectiveness in treating Parkinsons, MS, cancer; sadly we are not at the point it seems where this is being done in proper trials.


If you're looking for a less... industrial method of separating out the components you want its pretty easy to make a ghetto vape with a distillate collector. But, I believe it would be more appropriate to ask how to build one/what to buy on a different forum. Column chromatography is pretty much just things passing through a glorified filter at a different rate, but it only really has applications for mass (like kilos of leaf material) separation or for situations where you need a high purity product.

I remember hearing that before the discovery of the CB receptors that the leading theory for cannabis intoxication was THC disrupting cell membranes. Anyone have a link to one of those old studies or something suggesting the same?

Edited by Delta Gamma, 15 February 2011 - 03:16 AM.


#66 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 06:11 PM

Just thought I'd let people reading this know that I've stopped my "3" regime since I went and got a proper assessment for ADHD. I was prescribed Ritalin and that has made a world of difference for me. Self medicating with marijuana when you may actually need proper medicine for cognitive deficits isn't the best idea. Although it partially worked for me, the Ritalin works way way better.

Edited by Wurzel Bagman, 14 May 2011 - 06:13 PM.


#67 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 07:23 PM

edit/reply fail.

Edited by Wurzel Bagman, 14 May 2011 - 07:24 PM.


#68 Destiny's Equation

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 02:20 AM

Just thought I'd let people reading this know that I've stopped my "3" regime since I went and got a proper assessment for ADHD. I was prescribed Ritalin and that has made a world of difference for me. Self medicating with marijuana when you may actually need proper medicine for cognitive deficits isn't the best idea. Although it partially worked for me, the Ritalin works way way better.


My 2 cents? Try treating your ADHD with some good ol' cocoa powder.

It works wonders for my ADHD, makes both cannabis and ADHD medications look like toys in comparison. I put several spoonfuls of organic unprocessed cocoa powder in a bowl, add a little water to turn it into a paste, eat it, half an hour later...BAM! cleaning my room and doing chores with a laser-beam focus.

I know it sounds hokey, but don't knock it until you've tried it!

P.S. With the Ritalin I would be worried about the long-term toxicity. Not telling you what to do, just giving you some food for thought: a buzz is only temporary, brain damage is forever.
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#69 Wurzel Bagman

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 03:21 AM

Just thought I'd let people reading this know that I've stopped my "3" regime since I went and got a proper assessment for ADHD. I was prescribed Ritalin and that has made a world of difference for me. Self medicating with marijuana when you may actually need proper medicine for cognitive deficits isn't the best idea. Although it partially worked for me, the Ritalin works way way better.


My 2 cents? Try treating your ADHD with some good ol' cocoa powder.

It works wonders for my ADHD, makes both cannabis and ADHD medications look like toys in comparison. I put several spoonfuls of organic unprocessed cocoa powder in a bowl, add a little water to turn it into a paste, eat it, half an hour later...BAM! cleaning my room and doing chores with a laser-beam focus.

I know it sounds hokey, but don't knock it until you've tried it!

P.S. With the Ritalin I would be worried about the long-term toxicity. Not telling you what to do, just giving you some food for thought: a buzz is only temporary, brain damage is forever.

Wow, cocoa powder huh? I'd never thought that would be a treatment for ADHD. I'll give it a try.

Ya the fact that it's only been around 50 or so years and there aren't any solid longterm studies describing how it changes brain structure/function is definitely concerning. But I feel like if I'm now able to get more done, socialize more and develop my brain more intellectually, the pros should be greater than any possible cons. Having read recent articles like this one that shows MPH improves brain plasticity I'm happy taking it. http://www.physorg.c...s187187471.html
Increased brain plasticity + learning = long-term brain enhancement :)

Edited by Wurzel Bagman, 15 May 2011 - 03:22 AM.


#70 Thorsten3

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:34 AM

Just thought I'd let people reading this know that I've stopped my "3" regime since I went and got a proper assessment for ADHD. I was prescribed Ritalin and that has made a world of difference for me. Self medicating with marijuana when you may actually need proper medicine for cognitive deficits isn't the best idea. Although it partially worked for me, the Ritalin works way way better.


My 2 cents? Try treating your ADHD with some good ol' cocoa powder.

It works wonders for my ADHD, makes both cannabis and ADHD medications look like toys in comparison. I put several spoonfuls of organic unprocessed cocoa powder in a bowl, add a little water to turn it into a paste, eat it, half an hour later...BAM! cleaning my room and doing chores with a laser-beam focus.

I know it sounds hokey, but don't knock it until you've tried it!

P.S. With the Ritalin I would be worried about the long-term toxicity. Not telling you what to do, just giving you some food for thought: a buzz is only temporary, brain damage is forever.

Wow, cocoa powder huh? I'd never thought that would be a treatment for ADHD. I'll give it a try.

Ya the fact that it's only been around 50 or so years and there aren't any solid longterm studies describing how it changes brain structure/function is definitely concerning. But I feel like if I'm now able to get more done, socialize more and develop my brain more intellectually, the pros should be greater than any possible cons. Having read recent articles like this one that shows MPH improves brain plasticity I'm happy taking it. http://www.physorg.c...s187187471.html
Increased brain plasticity + learning = long-term brain enhancement :)


I'd be careful with the cocoa powder.. Anecdotally I find it starts doing more harm than good if you eat the stuff everyday and it is addictive to some degree. When I take a break from it my body starts feeling a lot better. Now I take it every few days, but no longer get beneficial effects. I take it purely for the polyphenols.

#71 Ark

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 10:37 AM

Cannibis is the number 1 treatment for Bipolar Disorder(maybe after Lithum) IMHO.

#72 brentpeters

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:29 PM

I recently discovered that cannabinoids promote hippocampal neurogenesis.

"Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects" http://www.ncbi.nlm....27/?tool=pubmed

I think the next question to ask is, specifically which cannabinoids contribute to this effect? And is it possible to enjoy the benefits of these cannaboids (creativity, neurogenesis, etc) without their downsides (lethargy, effects on short-term memory, etc)?

It might be possible to completely avoid the undesirable cannabinoids by paying attention to their varying boiling points while vaporizing. Refer to http://img15.imagesh...nnabinoids2.jpg and http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj028.htm

I was wondering if anyone else knew more on the subject?

#73 The Immortalist

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:24 AM

Would low doses of cannabis that has a high concentration of CBD be a good treatment for anxiety?

#74 golden1

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:53 AM

It depends how you respond and the ratio. I'm guessing you'd want a lot more CBD, which is more rare, as theyre bred for thc mostly. However, I've found low dose jwh-018 and such to be anxiety-reducing, and those are much more similar to THC than CBD, so its possible either could help or not. I don't think unless you can get medical grade bred for cbd strains that it would be a good treatment for anxiety, however I also don't think there is really any "drug" treatment to anxiety, except possibly using empathogens/psychedelics in a controlled setting with someone to guide you and help you explore your anxiety.

The only true treatment, and I speak from having anxiety... seems to be to ignore it while it may seem hard and take awhile eventually you may still get a slight anxiousness but it never evolves. Mine is almost gone. (social anxiety mostly, unfamiliar people and especially those in a position of authority).

#75 kevinseven11

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:09 PM

Marijuana boosts AA in the brain. Studies show AA improves memory. AA is more or equally abundant as DHA fatty acids in the brain. So short term marijuana may be bad for memory, but after effects wear off in a day, you should see improvements in memory.

Edited by kevinseven11, 16 July 2012 - 06:10 PM.

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#76 nito

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:01 AM

In my experience this is what marijuana does for me.

Confidence. Words come out so natural i;m just so fluent. Everything just makes sense to me and people. Normally i put a status update on facebook and it gets less than 5 likes. When im high somehow i get like 20+ likes it's like i just become a poet all of a sudden. This girl I met for the first time, keeps asking about me even though I only spoke to her for 10 minutes. I don't over analyse what the consequences are so I just go with it. Once walked past 5 pretty girls and said something like "happy new year" They were pretty rude and said "fuck off" but in quick reply i said "raaw I like a girl with claws in bed" and they started laughing lol.

Empathy. I love everyone and everything. The biggest love is food, and cooking. Usually i dread cokking cus i have no confidence becasue i burnts sausages when i was a kid and people laughed. But when im high, boy i eat anything. Which is good becasue i am quite a skinny person.

Creativity. I make connection between things that are not really related. I tend to perform better in games too.(chess etc.)
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#77 gamesguru

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:13 AM

In my experience this is what marijuana does for me.

Confidence. Words come out so natural i;m just so fluent. Everything just makes sense to me and people. Normally i put a status update on facebook and it gets less than 5 likes. When im high somehow i get like 20+ likes it's like i just become a poet all of a sudden. This girl I met for the first time, keeps asking about me even though I only spoke to her for 10 minutes. I don't over analyse what the consequences are so I just go with it. Once walked past 5 pretty girls and said something like "happy new year" They were pretty rude and said "fuck off" but in quick reply i said "raaw I like a girl with claws in bed" and they started laughing lol.

Empathy. I love everyone and everything. The biggest love is food, and cooking. Usually i dread cokking cus i have no confidence becasue i burnts sausages when i was a kid and people laughed. But when im high, boy i eat anything. Which is good becasue i am quite a skinny person.

Creativity. I make connection between things that are not really related. I tend to perform better in games too.(chess etc.)

If this is all that cannabis does to you, then you have a very good and very unique biochemistry. Despite its positive effects, the negative ones were just too much for me to justify its use. I only use it 1-2 times per month now, and only when the set and setting are perfect, and I find that one deep toke off a vaporizer is all I need to have a nice trip. I like to do it around 6 pm, typically after finishing a project, because that allows me to sober up before sleeping and to not feel guilty or anxious about being unproductive for that day/week. I definitely have an urge to take a few more tokes around 8 pm, but I've been there, done that, and I don't think it's healthy. Nonsense to the people who say it's non-addictive (http://www.psycholog...bet-your-heroin), and to the ones who claim it only promotes (and doesn't interfere with) LTP (http://www.nature.co...-forget-1.10152).

Marijuana boosts AA in the brain. Studies show AA improves memory. AA is more or equally abundant as DHA fatty acids in the brain. So short term marijuana may be bad for memory, but after effects wear off in a day, you should see improvements in memory.

Just another piece to the puzzle. There's also evidence that low concentrations of THC (such as those experienced when the effects wear off) are neurotoxic. It's thought that cannabinoids are a double-edged sword. This might lead us to think that marijuana is bad for short-term memory while high, as well as other cognitive functions when you return to baseline...who wants brain cells to die as you're coming down? http://www.world-sci...5_marijuana.htm

It depends how you respond and the ratio. I'm guessing you'd want a lot more CBD, which is more rare, as theyre bred for thc mostly. However, I've found low dose jwh-018 and such to be anxiety-reducing, and those are much more similar to THC than CBD, so its possible either could help or not. I don't think unless you can get medical grade bred for cbd strains that it would be a good treatment for anxiety, however I also don't think there is really any "drug" treatment to anxiety, except possibly using empathogens/psychedelics in a controlled setting with someone to guide you and help you explore your anxiety.

The only true treatment, and I speak from having anxiety... seems to be to ignore it while it may seem hard and take awhile eventually you may still get a slight anxiousness but it never evolves. Mine is almost gone. (social anxiety mostly, unfamiliar people and especially those in a position of authority).

Psychedelic therapy for treating anxiety is very controversial. Self-discipline and -mastery are better alternatives, IMO. Some people respond well to the anxiolytic effects of cannabinoids, but this effect generally can't be sustained, and redosing before you come down will tend to be anxiogenic. There are potential reasons for this, but they're just best guesses. You're right, though, that CBD seems to be a more effective and sustainable anxiolytic.

Would low doses of cannabis that has a high concentration of CBD be a good treatment for anxiety?

If you can acquire cannatonic #4 bud, which is reported to have <1% THC and >12% CBD, you could experiment with medium doses. I have been told that 2 parts CBD to 1 part THC is ideal for most medical purposes, the suspected reasons being that CBD has a half life which is twice as short as THC, yet the two unite well. So one part skunk and two parts cannatonic make for an interesting first trial. CBD is indeed a novel anxiolytic, and might be worth trying for people who wish to avoid the common (and addictive and harmful and generally ineffective) anxiolytics. I wouldn't rely on it, but if self-discipline isn't enough to resolve your anxious states, it could be a worthwhile addition.

I recently discovered that cannabinoids promote hippocampal neurogenesis.

"Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects" http://www.ncbi.nlm....27/?tool=pubmed

I think the next question to ask is, specifically which cannabinoids contribute to this effect? And is it possible to enjoy the benefits of these cannaboids (creativity, neurogenesis, etc) without their downsides (lethargy, effects on short-term memory, etc)?

It might be possible to completely avoid the undesirable cannabinoids by paying attention to their varying boiling points while vaporizing. Refer to http://img15.imagesh...nnabinoids2.jpg and http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj028.htm

I was wondering if anyone else knew more on the subject?

It's just one small piece to the puzzle. Don't be fooled into thinking pot is only good. THC probably contributes to this effect more than any other natural cannabinoid, which is localized to the hippocampal dentate gyrus, since it mimics HU210 and since it is generally the most abundant cannabinoid. There's no research on the matter yet, but I'd wager that CBD is more neuroprotective and neurogenic than THC.


Cannibis is the number 1 treatment for Bipolar Disorder(maybe after Lithum) IMHO.

For depression, it's almost certainly better than lithium, likely due to its activity on opiate, dopaminergic, and serotonergic receptors. But it tends to cause severe hypomanic episodes for me (I have what they believe is a rare form of bipolar, featuring ultradian mood rhythms, sometimes bouncing between mania and depression 5-10 times in a single day!). I'd wager it intensifies mania in those who have 5-15 week sessions too. It might be a good crutch during depressive episodes, but for me, my mood fluctuates far too often to warrant treating it with something which has a half life as long as THC. For major depression (unipolar), it seems to help manage some symptoms in the acute phase, but I fear tolerance would be an issue in those who redose before the effects wear off. There are better drugs for depression (both bipolar and unipolar), and better options that drug therapy (like psychotherapy).
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#78 golden1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:49 AM

I will just respond by saying that psychedelics are very controversial in general, so I can't even imagine discussion happening on the use of them for medical treatment in this day and age... however it helps to get to know your own mind and how it reacts when dealing with anxiety and psychedelics just make that come naturally. I think I mentioned having someone there for you that is capable to support and guide you, but if I didn't that would surely make it much safer. I personally got over my anxiety partially with the help of psychedelics,.. not in one go, but each experience helped me feel much stronger emotionally and more caring about myself instead of others(in a balancing way, my anxiety was caring too much about others thoughts when really mine matter much more than I gave credit to and I didn't want my thoughts to be anxiety ridden because of other people or silly paranoias). I did it mostly alone, but yeah it is controversial I guess and probably wouldn't help everyone(if youre in a good setting with a good person you can trust not much can really go wrong though..unless you take too much of course or are predisposed to flip into skitzophrenia).

#79 gamesguru

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:22 AM

Definitely avoid psychoactives if your goal is to not precipitate schizophrenia and related disorders. I really think the effect psychedelics have on emotional awareness and transendence and mastery over anxiety and such is very very very subtle, to the point that it's not even worth trying. Perhaps if your anxiety is caused by environmental factors (distressing and spiteful people, a terminal illness, or bad employers), it could help you explore the truth of your situation...but for someone with a naturally anxious personality with a presumably genetic basis, I don't think psychedelics will help you overcome or master your anxiety any better than just putting yourself out there and reflecting on your experiences.

#80 golden1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:26 AM

Well it certainly was anything but subtle for me, to put three verys would be blasphemy in my world, so I doubt I'm the only one : P

#81 1thoughtMaze1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:43 AM

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.
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#82 golden1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:32 AM

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.


Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)
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#83 kevinseven11

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:04 PM

Some people smoke til they laugh so hard they throw up. Others vape til they feel it. Thats the real difference. Lower dose marijuana increases Serotonin while higher dose lowers it.
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#84 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

Exactly what kevinseven11 said! yep...

#85 1thoughtMaze1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:54 PM

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.


Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)


If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.

Edited by 1thoughtMaze1, 20 July 2012 - 04:55 PM.

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#86 golden1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:10 PM

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.


Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)


If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.



LOL!

You would know right? Just because you suck at doing things high or have some stupid stigma against it.... doesn't mean I have the same handicap as you do. And I don't try to be rude, but are you seriously trying to tell me because I was high my computer programs are definitely not complex. Source or STFU? I mean this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard said as a blanket statement... Have you ever been high? You realize that you can think almost completely normally when high....riiiiight? It would have no impact on making me UNABLE TO CODE "COMPLEX" PROGRAMS.. Wait.. hahahah have you ever even programmed before? What I am trying to say is that you're an idiot pretty much, sorry I guess I don't know how else to respond to such insulting nonsense except like this.

PS: "than" is for comparisons, "then" is the word you are looking for. YW.

Edited by golden1, 20 July 2012 - 05:14 PM.

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#87 Brenjin

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

Anyone thinking weed is a nootropic is smoking way to much of it. Its good for creative thinking, that i fully agree with, but try doing calculus on it and you'll quickly realize what im saying.


Always made me better at figuring complex things out, I code the most complex computer programs while high and I don't realize what you're saying personally. It helps me focus and get into the task... Odd one out is me I suppose here. I would only say that being too high for what you are doing can impact me, but its quite simple for me to fix.. I just don't get retarded high when I try to do work, just moderately and the only effects are positive. For me its the most potent nootropic behind amphetamine(if you can count amphetamine as a nootropic lol), except unlike amphetamine theres no w/d or noticable side effects for me(at least none that are bad really, like maybe I eat too much sometimes haha)


If you code computer programs high than they are definitely not complex.


Your quite biased.

I have friends and family who use cannabis specifically for math and physics.

It's all based on the individual's body chemistry as has been noted many times already in this thread.

#88 OpenStrife

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:02 PM

A little facts regarding Marijuana, which I was an avid smoker every day throughout highschool.

Marijuana downregulates your GABA and Acetylcholine levels, dramatically. The Cannabinoid receptors are closely connected(in terms of proxmity) to both GABA and Acetylcholine receptors.

What this means is, yes infact you will recieve a significant boost in some aspect, WHILE you are high. But it stays in your system, clogging up your receptors for up to 2 days - 2-3 weeks depending on how much you smoke.

And to top it off, while it is in your system, clogging up your receptors, being inactive, doing nothing, except blocking your receptors, it also causes production of GABA and Acetylcholine to drop significantly.

This does not mean learning is not possible after smoking or while smoking. What this means is that it infact DOES make you dumber, and the effects are more pronounced over the long-term. It down regulates your entire GABA and Acetylcholine system, and will continue to do so the longer it is in your system.

You can look it up, it's scientific fact.

I smoked every day in high school, me and my buddies would go through a minimum of 4-5 oz a week, between 3-5 people. I can attest that the significant laughy, and overall high feelings are a direct result of GABA and ACH stimulation. Over the first 3 years I started smoking, these effects were mostly gone by the end of the 3rd months or so. This is a result of the significant downregulation and decrease in efficiency of your GABA and ACH systems.

I could easily say, this is, your brain getting dumber, but that can be argued. It all depends on what your interpret of smart is... Somebody could have down regulated systems significantly and still succeed, but in the quite literal since, weed causes brain damage. That is, if you look at it over the long term.

One time smoking wont hurt you, unless you consider a slight down regulation in your systems to be damage.

Fun Fact: THC and other Cannabinoids literally act as goo in the brain. They are Fat soluble which is why they stay in the body/brain for so long.

I used to make Hash Oil back in high school, by using a butane extraction method. The result would be a very thick goo, that when touched to anything, would NOT come off except over a very long time, unless washed with an alcohol based-solution. Do this yourself, it's very cheap and easy, and you will be able to see first hand what the THC looks like. It's quite honestly the most gooey thing you'll ever touch or see.


Now, your brain can always up regulate.... but upregulation without the use of supplements would require intense mental training, or just take up to 2-3 months if simply waiting. And during these 2-3 months you could not smoke weed at all.

In short: If you smoke weed more than 1-2 times a month, then you are constantly down regulating your systems. This results in the brain becoming lazier over time and can require a lot of hard work to reverse. Most people don't notice it because it's so subtle and they aren't that aware of their brains.


I know, this is scary, I am not trying to scare you though. It's all fact. Merely look up the mechanism of THC, and relation of cannabinoid receptors to GABA and ACH receptors. Look up the effect of Marijuana on the down regulation of ACH and GABA. The fact is out there. Most people just aren't bright enough to draw the lines that reduced GABA and ACH = you getting dumber, or rather, your brain losing power and becoming less efficient. Smart behaviors are still certaintly possible, but just simply consider the effect of reduced GABA and ACH of learning and intellect. GABA is responsible for focusing and ACH is responsible for learning.


I'm not saying you can't smoke weed. Hell, I do occasionally, but not often. I still hang out with my friends everyday who smoke, they probably go through 2lbs a month. I always decline smoking with them, mainly because I dislike my mental progression being brought back a notch and me having to work back up to were I was. Even being around second hand smoke I can feel it having a significant effect on my system, for multiple days after..... After I became aware of the obvious effects, I got really tired of having to regain retrain and upregulate my faculties back to their normal levels for days after smoking....

When I smoked all throughout high school, my father always told me that his friends who did that were dumb as rocks now. I didn't believe him. I didn't head his word. But when I started experiencing first hand, and looked up marijuana related cannabinoid effects on GABA and ACH... I took a very different stance on smoking. Alcohol practically causes less damage, at least in different ways, if you don't drink that much... mainly because alcohol doesn't stay in your system for days-weeks interferring with your gaba and ach systems like CBN, THC, CBD, etc.

A word of the wise: I didn't even know what Downregulation and Upregulation were until I came to these forums. How is anyone else supposed to understand the true effects of marijuana when terms such as downregulation and upregulation are not well known by the average smoker....

Edited by OpenStrife, 20 July 2012 - 07:10 PM.


#89 LazarusMan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:36 PM

The only time I ever had what I would call a truly enjoyable mj experience was along with a hefty dosage of Kava Kava, which literally led to me melting into the chair I was sitting it. Other than that time, it ruins my sleep and causes me nothing but anxiety and fogged up thinking.

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#90 golden1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:08 PM

Didn't scare me at all.. since I've never had anything like "brain damage" from weed. "Alcohol causes less damage".... seriously man?

I'm sorry that is what you believe, but I'm rather certain you just blew shit WAY out of proportion, I'm not even going to argue all of the psuedo-scientific "facts" and claims of massive ACH and GABA down regulation....You can believe what you want based on your own experience, but I lol'd.



I think you're a bit paranoid and maybe unintentionally hugely exaggerating, but yes weed has effects on ACH and GABA(and GLUTAMATE and SEROTONIN and DOPAMINE)... and sure maybe downregulation happens to some extent... but... umm from there I'm not sure why you are concluding that it literally makes you less smart...

"Marijuana downregulates your GABA and Acetylcholine levels, dramatically. "
dramatically, yeah? Wonder why I feel fine on the same dosage of benzos then whether I've been smoking or not... weird I would think if it dramatically lowered GABA I would go into withdrawal..


"And to top it off, while it is in your system, clogging up your receptors, being inactive, doing nothing, except blocking your receptors, it also causes production of GABA and Acetylcholine to drop significantly."
Sounds very scientific. Blockin mah receptorz, yeah?


" I can attest that the significant laughy, and overall high feelings are a direct result of GABA and ACH stimulation."
yeah, and you can attest this how? I'm not arguing that this is wrong, it's just another one of those JUMP TO CONCLUSION things.. where I can't possibly see how you can pin the effect to ACH and GABA.. when it has effects on so many other neurotransmitters and other downstream effects.

"You can look it up, it's scientific fact."
I'll pass as I already have looked up many papers and articles on the pharmacology of cannabinoids, of which that knowledge clearly goes way beyond ACH and GABA downregulation making you "dumber."(This is basically all you said in that huge block.. I just realized.. lol).


But yeah bro, if you abuse any drug it will kick you in the ass....surprise surprise. Weed can give you withdrawal, no doubt, but it goes away in like 3 days and you have to be kind of smoking all the time for that to happen.. to me..(plus it doesn't make me feel dumber.. just not hungry, a bit irritable, and tired).


I'm truly and sincerely sorry that you had negative effects, I suppose, I shouldn't be so snappy since you're at least learning about it's pharmacology and trying to derive meaningful data that fits your experiences.. and simply sharing what you have to say. So I apologize retroactively..haha, it's just that you claim much of this as fact and consider you conclusions to be fact when if you were to look up the vast amount of effects it has, you will see it's not quite as simple as downregulation of ACH and GABA, I would argue it is mostly due to downregulation of the CB receptors as they are the ones being directly agonized the most(and show decently fast downregulation from what I recall). I"m just tired of all the not facts, I wish I could do a whole write up about weed's pharmacology with sources, but not going to happen atm anyway.

So, again, sorry for coming off so agitated, but I was... hahah. I hope you're willing to look further into the effects beyond ACH and GABA..peace! Pharmacology is very tricky, don't let theories become fact in your head, I know how easy it can be to do that as well.

Anyway if anyone wants to explain this better or something, that would be nice, I would but I don't have the time to fact check or find the most relevant articles again as I'm currently making some musicc, oh yeaah.

PS: Remember Im not denying that weed has rebound effects or slight withdrawal. I'm rather convinced that it is not permanent at all. Personally I think the fact that people who smoke weed for years and years and years(in an almost/arguably abusive type of way) and happen to seem dulled down can be pinned to at least two other reasons off the top of my head.. those people are more predisposed to smoking and abusing weed in the first place(causation vs. correlation) and/or that they simply smoked so often in high amounts that they ceased to really USE their brain(no doubt chronic high doses of weed makes you lazy in at least some respect, but especially mentally) and just sat around eating and watching TV while high. Substituting other learning activities for simply smoking weed instead, In my mind that will no doubt make for a dull brained person.

However I don't think that weed has any dramatic effect on brain health if used even once or twice a day, therapeutically dosed(enough for positive effects, but stopping right when you get to that point rather than just smoking until you can't get up out of lazyness.

I've smoked weed daily since 9th grade and recently went through 2oz. of mad good cali. hash oil. When I stop for even up to 2 weeks or more, the only negative is really the habit of smoking and some loss of appitite and wellbeing for a couple of days... nothing I would consider close to brain damage and especially not in any way permenant. I'm sure my brain is developing somewhat different than if I didn't get high, but.. once again it feels positive to me. The only thing that's made me feel stupid is the benzos I'm dependant on, and if you want to talk about downregulating GABA dramatically..... get dependant on benzos and feel some of that wonderful GABA withdrawal that makes you want to crawl out of your skin and abolishes any positive thoughts while flooding you with depression. Two way different ball games(by the way I got dependant because of phenazepam, it lasts over a week in my system and isn't very noticable. I'll admit I used it to escape dealing with a really rough patch in my life, terribly stupid and one of the worst things I've gotten myself into... plus it wasn't even worth it.. phenazepam isn't recreational lol.. FML)

Anyway, yeah.





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