[quote][quote] platpus
Well, all evidence seems to say that God conveys zero bits of information to people if he doesn't even care to mention that Jesus was the messiah to non-messianic jews. Heck, maybe it's the Christians who are wrong and Jehova just doesn't see the point in mentioning this small detail to Christians. People go to war over religious doctrine but Jehova does not set the record straight, as if he didn't even exist in the 1st place.[/quote]
“All the evidence.” What ALL, evidence?[/quote]
Evidence for the fact that people who claim that God talks to them are deluded. Jehova doesn't talk to people anymore.
[quote]I think non messianic Jews have information that Jesus is not the messiah. They also have information that he is. How can you say this?[/quote]
You don't seem to understand my point. People claim that God talks to them, but in reality the communication they think they receive from god is always contradictory. This is a strong data point for the non-existence of a personal god who contacts people. It seems like Judeo-Christians are calling for Jehova but there's nobody at the other end.
[quote][quote] platpus
The philosophical argument presented in those talks are rather naive and rejected by the majority of philosophers (who are quite/very non-religious on average). I would hazard a guess that the majority of physicists rejects that argumentation as well.[/quote]
Which arguments do you find “naive.” Which have been rejected?[/quote]
All of them. Why do you think 70% of professional philosophers reject them (as evidenced by their non-theism)?
[quote]Name me a few current philosophers who have debated the issues who reject them. I have always enjoyed such debates.
Science is a process not a position. Physicists are scientists and have almost always, to their credit, been wrong. Name me a physicist who has dealt with the issues of the debates and rejected them.[/quote]
The arguments for God are largely metaphysical and not in the realm of physics. Since none of the philosophical/metaphysical arguments are convincing at all (see above), the whole argumentation is baseless. There is no need for supernatural beings in any of the theories in physics.
[quote][quote] platpus
Much of that stuff is just babble, I don't have much respect for that type of philosophy and sophism at all. Go ask engineers, scientists and medical doctors whether they believe or not, the argumentation from them is likely to be a lot better.[/quote]
My immediate family has three doctors, one from Cornell and an robotics engineer. One is a psychologist and has written 13 books. My son is a graduate student at UCSC in computer science. My wife graduated from Swathmore. My brother in law graduated from Harvard as an attorney. I have two master degrees and 12 years of full time college and graduate work.. All my children have been tested and are mentally gifted. They are all theists.[/quote]
Yes, religiosity is still seen as "normal" in your part of the world.
[quote][quote] platpus
Not really, religiosity is inversely correlated with both IQ and education. According to this source 70% of philosophers are non-theist:[/quote]
What a smear. I have herd this kind of lame thing coming from atheists all the time. Not worth any comment.[/quote]
Sorry but this issue has been studied many times over and the results are what they are:
https://en.wikipedia...nd_intelligence[quote][quote] platpus
Nope, in many places in Europe and elsewhere non-religiousness (agnosticism + atheism) is the norm and faith is an anomaly. It always surprises me when I meet educated seemingly smart people who bought into that humbug. Of course, if one is subjected to religion at an early age it might be impossible to escape later, especially if religious behavior is seen as "normal" in the community. Atheism is quite a hard-core position in an oppressively religious society so it's better to count people who count themselves as non-religious. The numbers are 10% - 15% today globally, despite the indoctrination. According to studies only 23% of swedes or 16% of estonians believe in a god, which fully proves my point about Europe:[/quote]
So there are more than the average 2.3% atheists in the world in those bastions of enlightenment Sweden and Estonia. Good example. I said before they were spread unevenly..I think the Swedes and Estonians who believe in God are right.[/quote]
If you look at the table more closely you see that large parts of Europe where people are quite free from religious indoctrination, it's not just Sweden or Estonia. The situation is different in the old Catholic countries - there the majority of people has still been taught to believe.
[quote][quote] platpus
So, maybe being religious is considered quite normal where you're from but in more educated and liberated societies the real numbers are closer to the natural level of religiosity (free of oppressive indoctrination).[/quote]
I am an American. It is not unusual for people from every walk of life and educational background to believe in God,[/quote]
That is evidently true.
[quote]1. What studies say prayer stopped working?
2. When you tried psychedelic shamanism could you have taken to much / to little, of the drugs?
3. Do you believe those in your group who claim to have experienced spirits/demons?
4. You have accused religious people of having “brain fog.” Could “brain fog” also keep one from having religious experience?
5. Do drugs produce “Brain Fog.”[/quote]
1. Can you quote any properly conducted study that showed a benefit of prayer for example to the health of a person prayed for? When the study is properly conducted (blinded enough), there's no effect - it's like homeopathy or paranormal phenomena in general.
2. Maybe, more investigation are needed.
3. My friend experienced "dancing with friendly animal spirits that came to him from the forest" and sure I believe he experienced this. Whether any animal spirits are out there is another question.
4. I wasn't really serious when I said that .
5. They can both create and disperse illusions.
