47 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

your effects are likely due to an allergy, not some intrinsically negative effect of dairy

[KimberCT]

You could use coconut milk.

Edit: diluted cream probably wouldn't be avoiding dairy.

Love coconut milk.  It's not something I drink straight, but I use it for all my baking when the recipe calls for milk.


Rice, almond, oat milk... well, they make everything taste like rice, almonds, or oats.

Soy milk is a pretty close match to cow's milk when it comes to protein/fat content.  I've considered it but still want to do some more research into soy's health effects.

[chrono]

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

So it occurs to me to wonder: if you compare your previous "acclimated" dairy usage (i.e. without acute effects like you saw this weekend) and abstinence, do you notice a significant difference in your mental/emotional state, like ptamaddict did? Or is it more a physiological improvement in well-being?

If I had to quit dairy, I would need to come back for the smelly cheeses, no matter what it did to me. There's no way to approximate the taste of Roquefort.

[jlspartz]

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

So it occurs to me to wonder: if you compare your previous "acclimated" dairy usage (i.e. without acute effects like you saw this weekend) and abstinence, do you notice a significant difference in your mental/emotional state, like ptamaddict did? Or is it more a physiological improvement in well-being?

If I had to quit dairy, I would need to come back for the smelly cheeses, no matter what it did to me. There's no way to approximate the taste of Roquefort.

There's very little lactose in a serving of cheese. In one ounce of cheese there's 0-2g, depending on the type. In a cup of milk there is 11g no matter the type (non-fat, 1%, 2%, whole or chocolate). It's mainly milk and ice cream. Ice cream is 6g for 1/2 cup, but who only eats 1/2 cup of ice cream?! My serving is more like 2 cups http://www.healthsys...tosecontent.pdf

[chrono]

There's very little lactose in a serving of cheese. In one ounce of cheese there's 0-2g, depending on the type. In a cup of milk there is 11g no matter the type (non-fat, 1%, 2%, whole or chocolate). It's mainly milk and ice cream. Ice cream is 6g for 1/2 cup, but who only eats 1/2 cup of ice cream?! My serving is more like 2 cups http://www.healthsys...tosecontent.pdf

Right, but is lactose the primary cause of intolerance, either as an allergy or this more non-specific general intolerance?

Edited by chrono, 20 October 2010 - 08:25 PM.
spelling constable

[FunkOdyssey]

I saw an allergist yesterday who did food allergy research with the NIH and he says testing for food allergies is essentially bullshit with rare exception (blood test for celiac disease is pretty reliable).

Apparently there are tons of both false positives (antibodies are present but the food produces no symptoms) or false negatives (no antibodies but patient is clearly intolerant of the food, probably not immunologically mediated though). He says the best way to diagnose food allergies, the gold standard, remains the lowly food diary. Keep track of food intake, make connections between foods and symptoms.

Testing for environmental allergies on the other hand is highly sensitive and specific. Nothing complicated there.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 20 October 2010 - 06:05 PM.

[KimberCT]

I never bought into the anti-dairy hype until I actually tried a dairy-free diet for several weeks.  I actually felt quite a bit better.  Unfortunately, my craving for pizza kept getting the better of me.  Fast forward several months.  I had a food allergy panel done and it comes back positive for all the dairy products.  According to the nutritionist who did the allergy test, she quite frequently encounters people who've consumed dairy (or another one, gluten) their whole lives yet they've suddenly developed an allergy to it.

So it occurs to me to wonder: if you compare your previous "acclimated" dairy usage (i.e. without acute effects like you saw this weekend) and abstinence, do you notice a significant difference in your mental/emotional state, like ptamaddict did? Or is it more a physiological improvement in well-being?

If I had to quit dairy, I would need to come back for the smelly cheeses, no matter what it did to me. There's no way to approximate the taste of Roquefort.

Going on a GFCF diet significantly reduced my chief complaint, chronic anxiety.  There was also a reduction in the brainfog I had been experiencing.


If I was to reintroduce either of these foods chronically, I suspect the anxiety and gastrointestinal complaints would return... although not as badly as the acute effects.

[jlspartz]

There's very little lactose in a serving of cheese. In one ounce of cheese there's 0-2g, depending on the type. In a cup of milk there is 11g no matter the type (non-fat, 1%, 2%, whole or chocolate). It's mainly milk and ice cream. Ice cream is 6g for 1/2 cup, but who only eats 1/2 cup of ice cream?! My serving is more like 2 cups http://www.healthsys...tosecontent.pdf

Right, but is lactose the primary cause of intolerance, either as an allergy or this more non-specific general intolerance?

There are also allergies to casein, which is milk protein similar to gluten, but there's not many studies done on it.

There are allergies to lactose, but the general intolerance is due to "maldigestion" and reduction in lactase enzymes to break it down. Lactose-free milk is actually cow's milk with reduced amounts of lactose and lactase added to it to help you break down the rest of the lactose after you drink it. The population not affected by any amount of dairy are people who have an evolved chromosome that eliminates the shutoff of lactase production.

I'm trying a low dairy diet now, not dairy-free - hard to do when you live in "America's Dairyland", home of the "Cheeseheads". I know I have some abdominal pain from milk and ice cream, but not too bad. I'm starting day 4 and notice some difference - mainly more energy, but I'm not going to draw any conclusions for at least a week.

[KimberCT]

There's very little lactose in a serving of cheese.  In one ounce of cheese there's 0-2g, depending on the type.  In a cup of milk there is 11g no matter the type (non-fat, 1%, 2%, whole or chocolate).  It's mainly milk and ice cream.  Ice cream is 6g for 1/2 cup, but who only eats 1/2 cup of ice cream?!  My serving is more like 2 cups   http://www.healthsys...tosecontent.pdf

Right, but is lactose the primary cause of intolerance, either as an allergy or this more non-specific general intolerance?

It can probably go both ways.  I know many people who are lactose intolerance, but have no problem with lactose-free dairy products.  Personally, I don't think I have a problem with lactose.  It's more likely casein.  I did pick up some lactose and casein powder for the next time I feel like testing this hypothesis.

[jlspartz]

Just to revisit this and post an update on subjective findings. I found that am very intolerant to lactose and not allergic to casein. Either way, cutting it out of my diet for a month now, there are no signs of it improving any of my inattentive ADD symptoms as the original post suggested. The most it does for my mind is not interrupt my thought process with a "crap, my stomach hurts" internal dialog statement.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

I eat more cheese than anyone here. I did have cramps, until I started taking magnesium. I feel stoned after eating eggs or meat, but not cheese. That's why I eat it. Does anyone know why eggs or meat dull me up, but not cheese? Hand me a study that sufficiently proves cheese is bad for your brain. Also, supplemental calcium has been proven to increase risk of kidney stones while cheese reduces the risk of kidney stones.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

I recently cut out dairy from my diet and have found it to be extremely beneficial. My clogged up sinuses and persistent adult acne went away, my day time fatigue & mild depression is gone, I am able to focus much better, my mood is great and I'm quite motivated.

Nootropics in general seem to be more effective for me as well. The "magic" of piracetam is back :D I think this may be because of the abundance hormones in milk negatively affect the adrenal glands which are needed for piracetam to work well.

I've read about a few studies regarding ADHD and dairy intolerance; one in which 19/20 kids improved by quitting dairy.

There are numerous members here with a wide range of disorders to which they turn to noots for. I challenge anyone and everyone here, healthy or otherwise, to try cutting out dairy! No milk, butter, cheese, whey, chocolate, cookies, anything with milk ingredients, etc.

I have also heard about dairy withdrawal symptoms that may include things like headache and lethargy but they seem to have a relatively short duration (couple days to a week?) but so far i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms!

Please post back and let me know if this works for you too!

How does your body react when you eat a lot of meat or eggs? Have you tried taking a magnesium supplement with the cheese and seeing if you still feel fatigued, etc?

[Wurzel Bagman]

Well I've pulled a 180 and am actually back on dairy now. My diet tends to change a lot throughout the year and seems to work for me at the moment. I haven't tried meat and eggs exclusively but I haven't been getting the symptoms that I originally attributed to dairy. One thing that has changed since then is that I've been taking a better multivit, a zinc and a cal-mag. So I'm assuming my symptoms were merely a deficiency of some vitamin or mineral. A couple months ago I noticed white scuff-like marks on my nails which is apparently a sign of a zinc deficiency so that might have been one of the causes of my fatigue and mood problems. Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Imagination]

Rubbish!

This is like saying breast feeding a new born baby is wrong, breast feeding is one of the most natural things for human beings.....scratch that, the most natural. You wouldn't deny a new born baby milk, without it, it is not likely to grow very strong at all. Quote from wiki:-

"Human breast milk refers to the milk produced by a human mother to feed her baby. It provides the primary source of nutrition for newborns before they are able to eat and digest other foods; older infants and toddlers may continue to be breastfed."

What else you gong to do, shovel piracetam down it's throat mixed with a bit of choline.

Diary is fine and is an important part of most human beings diet. Skipping diary to provide a nootropic effect is absolute shite.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

Rubbish!

This is like saying breast feeding a new born baby is wrong, breast feeding is one of the most natural things for human beings.....scratch that, the most natural. You wouldn't deny a new born baby milk, without it, it is not likely to grow very strong at all. Quote from wiki:-

"Human breast milk refers to the milk produced by a human mother to feed her baby. It provides the primary source of nutrition for newborns before they are able to eat and digest other foods; older infants and toddlers may continue to be breastfed."

What else you gong to do, shovel piracetam down it's throat mixed with a bit of choline.

Diary is fine and is an important part of most human beings diet. Skipping diary to provide a nootropic effect is absolute shite.

What do you think of the ADHD dairy deprivation studies?

[Imagination]

Paleo might not be the best non-CR diet for longevity (I certainly think it is!) however one super solid takeaway it is giving us it is that if we weren't consuming it ~10,000+ years ago then it probably isn't good for us.

I would certainly not look at occidental diet and be proud about it. Pesticides, hormones, OGM, additives, dramatic lack of minerals and the problem is, it is difficult to avoid. Any diet in the past would be more healthy. For example 100 years ago there was 50% more magnesium in the diet. Wow.

Not taking my 2 glass of milk seems to do interesting things to me today, improved clarity of thought as of note. It is definitely doing things but I'm a pretty sensible individual so YMMV.

Good God, I've been drinking atleast 1/2 a gallon of milk a day since I was a little kid. When everyone else was drinking water, I'd be chugging milk lol

Maybe thats why I'm 6'4 240lbs.

But i'll defiantly cut it out of my diet and see how it goes.

If you didn't you would probably be 4'4 and 240lbs!

[Imagination]

Rubbish!

This is like saying breast feeding a new born baby is wrong, breast feeding is one of the most natural things for human beings.....scratch that, the most natural. You wouldn't deny a new born baby milk, without it, it is not likely to grow very strong at all. Quote from wiki:-

"Human breast milk refers to the milk produced by a human mother to feed her baby. It provides the primary source of nutrition for newborns before they are able to eat and digest other foods; older infants and toddlers may continue to be breastfed."

What else you gong to do, shovel piracetam down it's throat mixed with a bit of choline.

Diary is fine and is an important part of most human beings diet. Skipping diary to provide a nootropic effect is absolute shite.

What do you think of the ADHD dairy deprivation studies?

Can you please provide a link to the studies, I would be interested to read them.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

Can you please provide a link to the studies, I would be interested to read them.

It was around the beginning of the thread

http://www.scribd.co...n-Milk-and-ADHD

I don't think casein or gluten is the cause of ADHD symptoms. Dairy products have a lot of calcium, which can deplete magnesium. Magnesium deficiency is linked to ADHD.

http://www.naturalne..._food_adhd.html

Meat contains more magnesium than calcium. Humans ate meat for a long time but began to eat stuff like cheese just recently. Some nutrients like vitamin B12 can be taken in much higher doses than your ancestors took them from food, with benefits, because it doesn't disrupt balance of other nutrients. The balance your ancestors had of calcium and magnesium was around 5 to 8, in terms of mg, not %. Maybe this is the ratio we should maintain as well.

Some cheeses contain little calcium, which can be eaten even in high amounts and can easily get balanced by a magnesium supplement. Does anyone have an idea of where to find cheeses like this? When I search "low calcium cheese", I only get results relating to low fat cheese.

Edited by SayIDoAndIDont, 25 December 2010 - 06:40 AM.