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Unexpected possible effect from picamilon


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9 replies to this topic

#1 Yearningforyears

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:38 PM


I´ve had tinnitus for at least five years. Yesterday I noticed that it was unusually quiet when going to bed. Today I can´t hear a single of those otherwise ongoing noices (hissing nasty sounds as if coming from a high powered old school television set).
Feeling very happy about this :D
Ginkgo biloba did not help with my tinnitus, nor did piracetam or any other nootropic. I´ll wait and see if this is temporary, but it has never happened before. Finally a quiet night.
Taurine might have someting to do with it, but there was no noticeable change when using taurine only.

Edited by Nicholas, 19 October 2010 - 09:42 PM.


#2 chrono

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:10 AM

Nice, glad to hear it. I hope the alleviation persists!

I'd assume that this effect is due to the vasodilation from picamilon. Vinpocetine has been used as tinnitus treatment for a while, and is supported by this study. There are many other hits on medline for tinnitus AND vasodilator, though nothing conclusive jumped out at me. A little strange that ginkgo didn't have this effect for you, but it might have a slightly different MOA or magnitude of effect, or the preparation you used may have been a suboptimal formulation/low dose, I guess.

Definitely keep us updated on this. I have a friend with mild tinnitus, who isn't really interested enough to try to do anything about it, so I'd love to hear about treatments other than vinpocetine that might be worth trying.


On a slight tangent: this week, while researching melatonin, I found quite a bit of evidence that it may also be useful in treating tinnitus: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. Might be worth trying, depending on how effective this turns out to be, and how often you intend on taking picamilon. iHerb just got LEF's low-dose (300mcg and 750mcg), extended release melatonin in this month; I slipped in a bottle with my family's last order, and can't wait for it to arrive (for reasons unrelated to tinnitus).

Edited by chrono, 20 October 2010 - 08:59 AM.
unit correction


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#3 mdma

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:35 AM

I´ve had tinnitus for at least five years. Yesterday I noticed that it was unusually quiet when going to bed. Today I can´t hear a single of those otherwise ongoing noices (hissing nasty sounds as if coming from a high powered old school television set).
Feeling very happy about this :D
Ginkgo biloba did not help with my tinnitus, nor did piracetam or any other nootropic. I´ll wait and see if this is temporary, but it has never happened before. Finally a quiet night.
Taurine might have someting to do with it, but there was no noticeable change when using taurine only.




How much Picamilon are you taking daily and since when?

#4 NR2(x)

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 03:57 AM

You would expect this from a supplement that actually increase brain GABA. Tinnitus is caused by excess Long Term Potention which is covered by the inhibitory effects of GABA. Also Nician will help somewhat

#5 Ames

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:50 PM

You would expect this from a supplement that actually increase brain GABA. Tinnitus is caused by excess Long Term Potention which is covered by the inhibitory effects of GABA. Also Nician will help somewhat


Using my experience with tinnitus as a subjective but empirical base for reason, I would tend to agree with the above poster. I had tinnitus in my early twenties, had a stretch of 7-8 years where it disappeared, and had it return the other morning after the first time I did a Nootropic (a small amount of aniracetam without a choline source). My experience strongly speaks to tinnitus having a basis in deeper brain neurotransmitter/neurohormone chemistry. If it were just an issue of vasodilation, my tinnitus wouldn't have stayed away all of those years.

Also, a feeling of short patience and anxiety was extremely strong the following day. Almost to the point where I felt my long ago beaten OCD (16 years ago) creep back, ever so slightly. This also speaks to strong GABA receptor interaction. Without pontificating on how it interacts (I have my theory, which also gels as to why racetams seem to re-sensitize receptors to GABA agonists), my experience would indicate that a small amount of a racetam can have a large effect on the brain, which will be evident if you are sensitive to your own physiology or have had various neurological issues.

Remember that its a widely held principle that the strongest and most effective medicines are poisons taken in very small doses. I'm not saying that anything discussed here is a poison, but rather that if something is effective, it tends to be the most effective, in terms of long term prophylaxis, at very small doses. In my experience, anything that has been extremely effective for me is much less effective in larger doses.

Perhaps the very small dose of aniracetam that I took was responsible for my acute reaction (other than the anxiety and tinnitus, which could have been due to the omission of a choline source or a gaba agonist to help ease the neurochemical adjustment, it seemed to have some positive effect. Especially in terms of sex hormones, or possibly acetylcholines action on sexual function).

Another recent example is my taking 5 mg of arginine alpha-ketogluterate recently, which almost immediately cleared up a case of epiditmytus that I had for the past 5 months, and that a 10 day round of extremely strong and expensive antibiotics couldn't clear up. I hadn't even taken the arginine for that purpose, not knowing anything about arginines role in inflammation, but rather to try it as a weight lifting supplement. I found it useless for the latter purpose, and was dissapointed int he purchase until my inflammatory condition ameliorated within three days, as well as another inflammatory condition that I won't discuss here, for the sake of decorum, but which was intimately tied in to the epiditmytus in terms of when the inflammatory pain would appear. Judging from my past experience, the arginine would not have had such a strong long term positive effect if it had been taken in a larger dose. It actually may have had the opposite effect, and made the inflammation worse. Arginines role in the Urea cycle, and the potential for inflammatory disease in relation to that cycle, can serve as a model to further explain my experience. (BTW, Im not very physiologically knowledgeable, at least compared to many on this board, but have looked at a methylation map. I can't debate anyone on the above observations.)

Edited by golgi1, 22 October 2010 - 05:17 PM.


#6 Yearningforyears

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:31 PM

How much Picamilon are you taking daily and since when?



I´ve been taking 50 mg three times daily for approx. two weeks. Sometimes I can hear some hizzing, but it is much less noticeable now and only when the environment is quiet. When listening with headphones there also is a higher tolerance to sound (I can listen without getting symptoms as easily and they are lighter as well)

Edited by chrono, 22 October 2010 - 10:24 PM.
fixed quote tag

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#7 chrono

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:10 AM

If it were just an issue of vasodilation, my tinnitus wouldn't have stayed away all of those years.

I was merely mentioning a treatment option that seemed to correct tinnitus to some extent. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be the only factor involved, and perhaps not implicated in the natural etiology of the condition at all.

While some GABAergics (acomprosate, some benzos) do work, gabapentin has failed to do so in several clinical trials. So I don't think it's as simple as any one factor, especially as there are different types (and probably causes) of tinnitus. As for picamilon, it's probably impossible to say whether it's the GABA or the vasodilation (though vasodilators seem to be better-studied as a treatment).

#8 Ames

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:01 PM

If it were just an issue of vasodilation, my tinnitus wouldn't have stayed away all of those years.

I was merely mentioning a treatment option that seemed to correct tinnitus to some extent. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be the only factor involved, and perhaps not implicated in the natural etiology of the condition at all.

While some GABAergics (acomprosate, some benzos) do work, gabapentin has failed to do so in several clinical trials. So I don't think it's as simple as any one factor, especially as there are different types (and probably causes) of tinnitus. As for picamilon, it's probably impossible to say whether it's the GABA or the vasodilation (though vasodilators seem to be better-studied as a treatment).


Im playing a lot of catchup on neurochemistry since starting to participate on this forum, and have a bit better grasp of it now than when I made that last post. I'd amend it to stating that excess glutamate excitation is likely what caused the tinnitus, which would also likely account for the OCD (memantine being anecdotally stated to be almost an instant cure for a lot of instances of OCD). GABaergics could theoretically and indirectly bring short term relief in some instances, with a possible worsening of symptoms over time. When I "cured" my OCD with alcohol in my teens, my brain was likely still plastic enough to make a permanent adjustment toward a healthier homeostasis based on the simultaneous NMDA antagonism and Gabaergic effect of ethanol. Perhaps it was only due to the NMDA antagonism. However, I'm not sure if it would work in an older person. Being that alcohol isn't a common cure for OCD or tinnitus, I'd assume not.

Edited by golgi1, 25 October 2010 - 03:07 PM.


#9 chrono

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:05 AM

Good thinking. I don't think there's anyone here who isn't "playing catchup" when it comes to neuroscience ;)

A few other threads on tinnitus, with some useful suggestions:

Tinnitus
Nootropics that alleviate tinnitus?
What are some good things for tinnitus?

Edited by chrono, 26 October 2010 - 09:06 AM.


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#10 NR2(x)

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:34 AM

Hi golgi1
Good work, creating hypothesis on general observed effects will really assist you. I believe that you are generally correct in your hypothesis. I would assume memantine could be useful in both OCD and Tinnitus. Alcohol may have potential but the question is always trade-offs, if a glass of wine was sufficient, then this would be very interesting.
However, I would like to stress that NMDAR's are a very complex system and a strict greater or lesser activity is incorrect. For instance, there are good articles that portray the difference between synatpic and extrasynatpic nmdars(synatpic NMDAR function is so important).


I don't think there's anyone here who isn't "playing catchup" when it comes to neuroscience
Sadly so true




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