29 replies to this topic

[jayice]

Hey guys i was wondering what the learning accelartor nootropic was!? as i read on the web somewhere (might have been here) that this particular nootropic is very good in helping accelerate the learning of skills!? i remember reading it somewhere! please could someone help me with this dilema? could you post the link if possible!?

Thanks for anyhelp!

[moo]

Hi,

I don't think anyone has answered your question because it is so broad. The most common nootropic - the one that you are most likely to have read about/heard about is piracetam. I would wikipedia that and then research from there. Everyone has a unique brain chemistry so different nootropics can work differently for different people. What might accelerate one person's learning may provide little or no benefits for another.
: )

[tjcbs]

This is actually an interesting question. Would increasing the ability to acquire a skill be neurologically different from increasing recall, attention, or whatever it is nootropics are supposed to do for you? It certainly would be more valuable.

[MindDefect]

Bacopa? That's the closest thing to a learning specific nootropic, that I can think of...

[ritch]

Oxiracetam and aniracetam are touted for studying.

[nito]

hey what happened to that new magnesium version (magnesium-L-threonate) that scientist claimed increases learning ability. Is that available commercially yet?

[jayice]

Hi,

I don't think anyone has answered your question because it is so broad. The most common nootropic - the one that you are most likely to have read about/heard about is piracetam. I would wikipedia that and then research from there. Everyone has a unique brain chemistry so different nootropics can work differently for different people. What might accelerate one person's learning may provide little or no benefits for another.
: )

Hey thanks for the answer! i understand what your saying its just that i remember a thread i think on this forum and it was talking about this specific nootropic that increased learning capacity and sped up the time it took to learn a specific skill. im not certain if it was depreynl instead of piracetam. do you think it could be deprenyl? are those the effects of it?

Thanks again everyone!

[caruga]

I think long-term DMAE use helps [EDIT: I realise this doesn't actually address the speed of learning, in my experience... it may still help though]. Been using it for 6 weeks, graduated from 200mg daily to 800mg daily. Behavioural learning seems to have improved. I deduce this from the fact that my addictive behaviour has dropped; the late nights at the computer seem to program/discourage me from doing it again, whereas before I'd repeat the same folly the next day as if I didn't even remember how I felt about it the previous day.

Edited by caruga, 13 November 2010 - 01:39 PM.

[chrono]

Indeed, this is rather like asking "what will help me lift weights better" on a bodybuilding forum. Arguably, anything which improves domains of attention, motivation, retention, etc. could help reduce the time it takes to learn a skill. Sorry, but nothing specific is coming to mind.

[Caligula]

Let me restate the issue as I see it.
Learning might either be influenced indirectly or directly.
Indirect factors would be improved focus, concentration, motivation, energy and endurance, faster thinking and association.
But actual learning happens by building neurons and, most importantly, myelination of existing nerve fibres. These processes would have to be influenced posivitely in order to accelerate learning directly.
I'm sure there are some prerequisites for these processes and I guess they can be influenced. I'd also like to know how.

Edited by Caligula, 14 November 2010 - 06:02 PM.

[chrono]

But actual learning happens by building neurons and, most importantly, myelination of existing nerve fibres.

No, learning doesn't depend on building new neurons. We discuss many neurogenetic substances here that probably have 0 effect on learning.

[Caligula]

No, learning doesn't depend on building new neurons.

Science is still out on that one. Considering current knowledge, I find it likely that neurogenesis plays a certain role in learning. Let's agree on this being uncertain.
The major legwork in learning happens by myelination, as mentioned. So we should concentrate on that. It is perhaps too fundamental a brain function to be influenced easily and harmlessly with drugs. But it's obvious we can influence learning conditions with our behaviour.
I also suppose that a related field of research lies in the treatment of demyelination caused by multiple sclerosis.

[jadamgo]

Sleep is a GREAT memory enhancer. If you want to learn something, study it for 15-60 minutes at nighttime. Aim to get the studying done no more than an hour before bedtime. You may get a little assistance from something like methylphenidate or racetams or other chemicals, but the effect of time of day on memory formation is significant and it costs no money to exploit.

[chrono]

Science is still out on that one. Considering current knowledge, I find it likely that neurogenesis plays a certain role in learning. Let's agree on this being uncertain.

Yeah, it definitely plays a (bidirectional) role in learning. I was disagreeing with your assertion that learning happens by building neurons.

The major legwork in learning happens by myelination, as mentioned. So we should concentrate on that.

There is probably less evidence for myelination being involved in learning than for AHN (which it is, just saying it's pretty unclear). It certainly doesn't do the major legwork...I don't think there's anywhere close to enough evidence to support this kind of causative assertion. I think you're looking for the term 'synaptic plasticity' (or LTP) which is the major player in learning and memory. Myelination is certainly interesting, but is not a good target for cognitive enhancing drugs, for several reasons.

Edited by chrono, 15 November 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[gpkarma]

Apologies if any of this has already been said, but based on what was mentioned above about myelination being required for learning to occur--

When you have M.S. your myelin sheathes are not working/disintegrating or whatnot--Would M.S. drugs help with learning in normal people??? I mean if there are any real ones out that work now, I'm not sure. I just know one person who takes a tiny dose of modafinil (100mg) for energy issues related to her MS; but could M.S. drugs precipitate neuronal "learning"?

As far as I know, in terms of neurogenesis, what they are discovering SSRIs like prozac do now is increase BDNF--I thought neurogenesis was due to BDNF-- (brain-derived neurotrophic factor...might be neurotropic I forget which)?? As far as I know depression just kills your brain--it self-destructs and can't work any more...no ability to learn, no energy, poor concentration, an empty feeling like you are slowly becoming invisible, and will slowly disintegrate until nothing is left of you...

Can anyone point me toward any threads here on BDNF and/or MS drugs/treatments? Hopefully there are some..??

Thanks,

gpkarma

[gpkarma]

Oh yes & myelination related to LTP--I was thinking about it and it seemed that better... myelination would lead to a process like where you need more & more of a drug to get the same effect--it just get used to the connection & causes tolerance over time.

I'm probably very confused...

[jayice]

so are there any myelination nootropics then?

[NR2(x)]

Myelination is essentially complete by 8 years of age(that is to say for any added myeline there are corresponding losses), therefore this plasticity is not an option to target for COgn ehancement. There maybe some required nutrients that can enhance the quality of Myelin and enhance conduction. Which could could could provide benefits at the real high end.

Crono is correct, as an adult, increasing cell viability, NMDA plasticity and metabolism are the only options to increasing Cogn function. Grey matter is essential to learning, in the typical adult there is an 8th of the cortical grey matter thickness than at 5 years of age. There are methods to enhance this, Growth Factors for one, BDNF,GDNF,NGF

Curcumin has a real BDNF effect, there are more, depends how far you want to do

Edited by NR2(x), 18 November 2010 - 11:04 AM.

[outsider]

Celastrus paniculatus

[Ark]

Celastrus paniculatus

What dosage would you suggest?

[nito]

Myelination is essentially complete by 8 years of age(that is to say for any added myeline there are corresponding losses), therefore this plasticity is not an option to target for COgn ehancement. There maybe some required nutrients that can enhance the quality of Myelin and enhance conduction. Which could could could provide benefits at the real high end.

Crono is correct, as an adult, increasing cell viability, NMDA plasticity and metabolism are the only options to increasing Cogn function. Grey matter is essential to learning, in the typical adult there is an 8th of the cortical grey matter thickness than at 5 years of age. There are methods to enhance this, Growth Factors for one, BDNF,GDNF,NGF

Curcumin has a real BDNF effect, there are more, depends how far you want to do

As far as possible if increasing growth factor leades to more grey matter thereby better learning!! Id didn't know curcumin contained growth factor. I think i might give it ago. I've already tried mushroom science lions mane from iherb. Finished the bottle and can't conclude anything!

[Animal]

Myelination is essentially complete by 8 years of age(that is to say for any added myeline there are corresponding losses), therefore this plasticity is not an option to target for COgn ehancement. There maybe some required nutrients that can enhance the quality of Myelin and enhance conduction. Which could could could provide benefits at the real high end.

Crono is correct, as an adult, increasing cell viability, NMDA plasticity and metabolism are the only options to increasing Cogn function. Grey matter is essential to learning, in the typical adult there is an 8th of the cortical grey matter thickness than at 5 years of age. There are methods to enhance this, Growth Factors for one, BDNF,GDNF,NGF

Curcumin has a real BDNF effect, there are more, depends how far you want to do

As far as possible if increasing growth factor leades to more grey matter thereby better learning!! Id didn't know curcumin contained growth factor. I think i might give it ago. I've already tried mushroom science lions mane from iherb. Finished the bottle and can't conclude anything!

Primarily, supplementation is about reducing the rate of decline with regards to grey matter volumes and neuronal metabolic indicators (such as mitochondria size and concentration). It's much more difficult to induce an ostensive increase in either of these factors, and it takes a significant amount of time. I'm not sure how long your bottle of Lions Mane lasted, but to expect anything other then negligible improvements in cognition from anything less then 6 months worth of supplementation is unrealistic.

For more immediate results you would need to turn to neuromodulating pharmaceuticals, and typically their effects only last as long as you take them, though there are exceptions. Ideally you want a substance which induces both short term and long term improvements in cognitive capacity/behavioural learning/abstract articulation etc. Deprenyl is a potential candidate for this, since it has both neuroprotective effects, and it improves dopaminergic tone. Though it's potential for transitory negative side-effects on personality (specifically stressor response) often discourages many users.

You say you want to go as far as possible? Well give me some idea of what risk and expenditure you're willing to accept and I can make some recommendations. But remember there are no quick fixes when it comes to cognition, you must have patience and perseverance.

[nito]

Myelination is essentially complete by 8 years of age(that is to say for any added myeline there are corresponding losses), therefore this plasticity is not an option to target for COgn ehancement. There maybe some required nutrients that can enhance the quality of Myelin and enhance conduction. Which could could could provide benefits at the real high end.

Crono is correct, as an adult, increasing cell viability, NMDA plasticity and metabolism are the only options to increasing Cogn function. Grey matter is essential to learning, in the typical adult there is an 8th of the cortical grey matter thickness than at 5 years of age. There are methods to enhance this, Growth Factors for one, BDNF,GDNF,NGF

Curcumin has a real BDNF effect, there are more, depends how far you want to do

As far as possible if increasing growth factor leades to more grey matter thereby better learning!! Id didn't know curcumin contained growth factor. I think i might give it ago. I've already tried mushroom science lions mane from iherb. Finished the bottle and can't conclude anything!

Primarily, supplementation is about reducing the rate of decline with regards to grey matter volumes and neuronal metabolic indicators (such as mitochondria size and concentration). It's much more difficult to induce an ostensive increase in either of these factors, and it takes a significant amount of time. I'm not sure how long your bottle of Lions Mane lasted, but to expect anything other then negligible improvements in cognition from anything less then 6 months worth of supplementation is unrealistic.

For more immediate results you would need to turn to neuromodulating pharmaceuticals, and typically their effects only last as long as you take them, though there are exceptions. Ideally you want a substance which induces both short term and long term improvements in cognitive capacity/behavioural learning/abstract articulation etc. Deprenyl is a potential candidate for this, since it has both neuroprotective effects, and it improves dopaminergic tone. Though it's potential for transitory negative side-effects on personality (specifically stressor response) often discourages many users.

You say you want to go as far as possible? Well give me some idea of what risk and expenditure you're willing to accept and I can make some recommendations. But remember there are no quick fixes when it comes to cognition, you must have patience and perseverance.

The lions mane bottle's got 90 pills and its recommended to take 1-3 pills twice daily. I took roughly 2 a day so i took it for 6 months. Deprenyl is something i have considered for some time due to increased mental stamina and confidence. I don't really need the libido part of it but hey it can't hurt. I have not tried it yet due to the fact that i am currently also taking SJW (perika, sc27, serofin).
Are you currently taking deprenyl, if so would you wind letting me know of a credible source that i can use once I'm off the SJW?

I don't mean literally as far as possible, i don't want to be a lab rat. But as long as it's safe i guess. Curcumin is definitely coming in soon, i only hear good stuff about it. In terms of finance i'm doing ok, but i would not spend more than the necessary.

[X_Danny_X]

Man, I am taking Deprenyl right now for the second time. I like how it makes me feel. The feeling is not strong as when I first took it, when I first took it, I was so motivated and focus and happy that I felt I defeat anyone and take on the world.

Selegiline is the real name for deprenyl. I have so far taking Pramiracetam, Pyritinol, Centrophenoxine, Spirulina, Chorella, and Fish Oil. I also taking Synatine Blue from Cerebral Health.


Where I buy it is in liquid form and expensive, I would like to have a cheaper option for Selegiline/Deprenyl. Curcumin is knew to me, didnt know it would increase BDNF, though I heard that exercise alone would increase BDNF but you can only have a certain increase of BDNF and that is it I heard. Is that true?

[NR2(x)]

" though I heard that exercise alone would increase BDNF but you can only have a certain increase of BDNF and that is it I heard. Is that true? "

Obviously there are practical limits to levels of BDNF in vivo, there will also be limits to the desireable levels aswell. These levels need to be controlled in a very precise spaciotemporal manner, there maybe a phasic and tonic like action.
I think that BDNF primary role is to increase the communicative efficiacy of neurons. NMDA receptors to the synapase etc. This means that its a viable target for all nootropic users. If you can retain 18 digits in your working memory then maybe your nearing a limit.
P.S. Curcumin stimulates the release of BDNF

[X_Danny_X]

Curcumin stimulates the release of BDNF huh, any of the products that I am taking does the samething?

I think I remember NAC increasing BDNF, but for me, I didn't notice anything.

plus NAC has a horrible odor, it stinks like hell.

Any good source for buying Curcumin?

Edited by X_Danny_X, 20 November 2010 - 12:23 AM.

[Animal]

The lions mane bottle's got 90 pills and its recommended to take 1-3 pills twice daily. I took roughly 2 a day so i took it for 6 months.

If you took 2 a day the bottle would last 45 days, that's less then 2 months. You need more nootropics dude!

[nito]

The lions mane bottle's got 90 pills and its recommended to take 1-3 pills twice daily. I took roughly 2 a day so i took it for 6 months.

If you took 2 a day the bottle would last 45 days, that's less then 2 months. You need more nootropics dude!

Well that was roughly 2 a day. Sometimes i took 1 pill as well which happend quite often since i didn't want to finish it 2 quickly.

[outsider]

Celastrus paniculatus

What dosage would you suggest?

200-400 mg oil or maybe 10-20 seeds. Some traditional herbalist mentioned working your way to 100 seeds.

[Ark]

Celastrus paniculatus

What dosage would you suggest?

200-400 mg oil or maybe 10-20 seeds. Some traditional herbalist mentioned working your way to 100 seeds.

Thanks for the tip