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Adderall and Piracetam


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#1 Georgina

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 08:48 PM


Just wanted to comment on my use of Adderall and Piracetam. This is in response to a couple of posts recommending against using these two togehter (due to lack of information on the safety of combining them).

I have been using Adderall for a couple of years (not everyday but several times a week). In addition I use lion's mane. About a month ago I decided to add some nootropics to improve cognition. I started with 1600mgs of Piracetam along with CDP Choline, L-Theanine and Bocapo taken daily.

On their one the piracetam mix with the lion's mane works very well. I have noticed improved memory and word recall and have also experienced improved verbal ability. I have not noticed any significant increase in mental energy though. When taken with Adderall (I take 5 to 10 mgs of adderall a couple of hours after the piracetam mix), I feel like Albert Einstein. It's like the Adderall ramps everything up but without feeling over stimulated. I honestly feel smarter. On its own Adderall gives me a lot of mental energy and I am very focused and productive but I don't feel smarter (although my word recall improves). When I combine the adderall with the nootropics I feel intellectually like I am operating on a much higher level. I also notice a decrease in Adderall side effects. I think this might relate to the CDP choline and the Theanine.

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.

It appears that Ritalin and Piracetam can be safely taken together. I just don't know if Ritalin works as well as Adderall.

#2 stablemind

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:15 AM

feeling smarter is different than actually being smarter. get an IQ test and compare. some people who smoke weed thinks it makes them smarter as well lo

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#3 Georgina

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:50 PM

feeling smarter is different than actually being smarter. get an IQ test and compare. some people who smoke weed thinks it makes them smarter as well lo


Yes you are right about measuring my perceived change by taking an IQ test (which I am going to do). But when I write about feeling smarter what I mean is that I have an easier time understanding things (I get things faster) than I did before. As an example I am involved in a major project at work. Prior to staring the nootropics this project really overwhelmed me and I had a difficult understanding where to begin. Lately though I feel quite differently. The project now seems very manageable and I understand exactly what I need to do. I have other examples of this change in my cognition/ability which is why I think I have gotten smarter. My verbal abilities really have improved as well. I have conversations with people now and my words flow very easily. I can also stay better focused on people when they are talking without fading in and out as I did before.

An IQ test is a good idea though. Wonder where I would go to be tested?

#4 VoidPointer

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:28 PM

Just wanted to comment on my use of Adderall and Piracetam. This is in response to a couple of posts recommending against using these two togehter (due to lack of information on the safety of combining them).

I have been using Adderall for a couple of years (not everyday but several times a week). In addition I use lion's mane. About a month ago I decided to add some nootropics to improve cognition. I started with 1600mgs of Piracetam along with CDP Choline, L-Theanine and Bocapo taken daily.

On their one the piracetam mix with the lion's mane works very well. I have noticed improved memory and word recall and have also experienced improved verbal ability. I have not noticed any significant increase in mental energy though. When taken with Adderall (I take 5 to 10 mgs of adderall a couple of hours after the piracetam mix),

I feel like Albert Einstein.

It's like the Adderall ramps everything up but without feeling over stimulated. I honestly feel smarter. On its own Adderall gives me a lot of mental energy and I am very focused and productive but I don't feel smarter (although my word recall improves). When I combine the adderall with the nootropics I feel intellectually like I am operating on a much higher level. I also notice a decrease in Adderall side effects. I think this might relate to the CDP choline and the Theanine.

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.

It appears that Ritalin and Piracetam can be safely taken together. I just don't know if Ritalin works as well as Adderall.



Great! There are a number of NP complete problems that could be better solved by someone with the abilities of Einstein. You can start with the 'Traveling Salesman' problem.

Also I would be interested in any idea of how to create more efficient algorithms that factor large integers quickly. The NSA would be very interested in this as well.

let us know..

#5 Neuronic

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:37 AM

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.


Do you have any updates?
I am very interested in this combination. I have both piracetam and pramiracetam begging me to take them with my Adderall XR.
What were your piracetam doses? I only have 20mg Adderall XR capsules, so it would be hard to judge how much I have if I tried to take it apart.

What is the danger of taking these together exactly?
Chance of over stimulation?

#6 jlspartz

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 07:08 PM

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.


Do you have any updates?
I am very interested in this combination. I have both piracetam and pramiracetam begging me to take them with my Adderall XR.
What were your piracetam doses? I only have 20mg Adderall XR capsules, so it would be hard to judge how much I have if I tried to take it apart.

What is the danger of taking these together exactly?
Chance of over stimulation?


bump...

I would like to know the same. I love Piracetam and my cognitive test scores greatly increase with it, and word recall feels 100% better.
On the other hand, I just got diagnosed with ADD-I and most inattentives seem to like the results of adderall the most. I'm getting prescription meds soon.

#7 kikai93

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:58 AM

feeling smarter is different than actually being smarter. get an IQ test and compare. some people who smoke weed thinks it makes them smarter as well lo


Yes you are right about measuring my perceived change by taking an IQ test (which I am going to do). But when I write about feeling smarter what I mean is that I have an easier time understanding things (I get things faster) than I did before. As an example I am involved in a major project at work. Prior to staring the nootropics this project really overwhelmed me and I had a difficult understanding where to begin. Lately though I feel quite differently. The project now seems very manageable and I understand exactly what I need to do. I have other examples of this change in my cognition/ability which is why I think I have gotten smarter. My verbal abilities really have improved as well. I have conversations with people now and my words flow very easily. I can also stay better focused on people when they are talking without fading in and out as I did before.

An IQ test is a good idea though. Wonder where I would go to be tested?


Contact MENSA. They're relatively cheap, IIRC.

#8 InquilineKea

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:05 AM

Okay, after some research, I've concluded this:

amphetamine neurotoxicity seems to be mediated in a form that's fundamentally *different* from glutamate neurotoxicity. So what this means is that I really don't think that piracetam is going to substantially increase the neurotoxicity from Adderall.

most of amphetamine's neurotoxicity comes from the increase of dopamine in the presynaptic axon. Since amphetamine also inhibits VMAT-2, the released dopamine doesn't even go back into its synaptic vesicles. Much of this dopamine will be "forced" out of the cell, since the phosphorylated dopamine transporter protein will move them from the presynaptic axon into the extracellular space. BUT - some of this dopamine will stay in - and this dopamine is going to be destroyed by MAO and COMT - the byproducts of both MAO and COMT are both neurotoxic (you could reduce some of this by taking a MAO-A selective inhibitor like deprenyl, and the additional dopamine is probably going to end up in extracellular space, although more of it will also get destroyed through COMT or oxidized in the presynaptic axon). Also, dopamine is unstable and is easily oxidized, which contributes to further neurotoxicity in the presynaptic axon (which can destroy the axon, although it may not destroy the rest of the cell). This brings up an interesting question though - is it better for the dopamine to be destroyed outside of the cell than inside it? The reuptake inhibition is going to prevent most(?) of it from going back into the cell, so a lot of it will end up destroyed outside the cell. But is it really destroyed when it's outside the cell, or does it mostly stay there until reuptake inhibition subsides?

So anyways, the increase in extracellular dopamine levels is going to increase activity of the postsynaptic dopamine receptor. Now, there are D1 receptors and D2-like receptors. D1 receptors are stimulatory, so they increase adenylyl cyclase levels, and then they increase expression of the cAMP pathway. D2 receptors are inhibitory, so they have the exact opposite effect. Now, my intuition is that D2 receptors are more important because they're the receptors that are implicated for ADHD. But then this would seem weird because I wouldn't expect D2 receptors to inhibit cAMP pathway activity (the cAMP pathway is important for memory formation and long-term potentiation, since it will upregulate AMPA and NMDA receptors => such receptor upregulation does not necessarily contribute to neurotoxicity since it simply makes it "easier" for an action potential to happen => but then, do the receptors close up during an action potential? And what happens to the calcium ions?). Now, what does this have to do with calcium ions? Well, the cAMP pathway increases the expression of CaM kinases, so that binds some calcium ions for a while. But then what happens to the extra calcium ions after the CaM interaction is done with?

Now, there is some research that indicates that amphetamines increase glutamate release (glutamate being the chemical that binds with the AMPA receptor, increasing the influx of calcium into the postsynaptic cell). That is independent from the main effect of amphetamine though. I don't think that the effect is large at all, and there are other ways of increasing glutamate to higher levels. Now, piracetam is going to enhance activity at the AMPA receptors, which will probably cause more calcium to enter the cell. Now, calcium ions are quite neurotoxic in themselves, and if left untouched, can make the mitochondrial membranes more permeable, causing oxidation and ultimate destruction of the mitochondria and the entire cell (why this doesn't make piracetam neurotoxic in itself - I'd like someone to answer). But that is completely different from the amphetamine neurotoxicity I mentioned above.

Edited by InquilineKea, 12 January 2011 - 09:29 AM.


#9 InquilineKea

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:48 AM

^

Dopamine decreases "background firing" rates and increases the signal to noise ratio in target neurons by increasing dopamine levels in the brain.[13][17] As a result, the drug may improve attention and decrease distractibility in activities that normally do not hold the attention of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder


Oh, so is *this* how an inhibitory GPCR could actually result in better attention span?

#10 kikai93

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:58 AM

most of amphetamine's neurotoxicity comes from the increase of dopamine in the presynaptic axon. Since amphetamine also inhibits VMAT-2, the released dopamine doesn't even go back into its synaptic vesicles. Much of this dopamine will be "forced" out of the cell, since the phosphorylated dopamine transporter protein will move them from the presynaptic axon into the extracellular space. BUT - some of this dopamine will stay in - and this dopamine is going to be destroyed by MAO and COMT - the byproducts of both MAO and COMT are both neurotoxic (you could reduce some of this by taking a MAO-A selective inhibitor like deprenyl, and the additional dopamine is probably going to end up in extracellular space, although more of it will also get destroyed through COMT or oxidized in the presynaptic axon). Also, dopamine is unstable and is easily oxidized, which contributes to further neurotoxicity in the presynaptic axon (which can destroy the axon, although it may not destroy the rest of the cell). This brings up an interesting question though - is it better for the dopamine to be destroyed outside of the cell than inside it? The reuptake inhibition is going to prevent most(?) of it from going back into the cell, so a lot of it will end up destroyed outside the cell. But is it really destroyed when it's outside the cell, or does it mostly stay there until reuptake inhibition subsides?


I'm sure you meant MAO-B, but for the record, taking any amphetamine or amphetamine analogue with an MAOI has the potential to kill you.

#11 Moddy2012

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:36 PM

Just wanted to comment on my use of Adderall and Piracetam. This is in response to a couple of posts recommending against using these two togehter (due to lack of information on the safety of combining them).

I have been using Adderall for a couple of years (not everyday but several times a week). In addition I use lion's mane. About a month ago I decided to add some nootropics to improve cognition. I started with 1600mgs of Piracetam along with CDP Choline, L-Theanine and Bocapo taken daily.

On their one the piracetam mix with the lion's mane works very well. I have noticed improved memory and word recall and have also experienced improved verbal ability. I have not noticed any significant increase in mental energy though. When taken with Adderall (I take 5 to 10 mgs of adderall a couple of hours after the piracetam mix), I feel like Albert Einstein. It's like the Adderall ramps everything up but without feeling over stimulated. I honestly feel smarter. On its own Adderall gives me a lot of mental energy and I am very focused and productive but I don't feel smarter (although my word recall improves). When I combine the adderall with the nootropics I feel intellectually like I am operating on a much higher level. I also notice a decrease in Adderall side effects. I think this might relate to the CDP choline and the Theanine.

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.

It appears that Ritalin and Piracetam can be safely taken together. I just don't know if Ritalin works as well as Adderall.


I have used Piracetam and Choline for a while and the effects are only slight. Adderall is the strongest ADD drug out there. I would bet that most of the effect you are getting with regards to focus and concentration is coming from the Adderall.

I am going to experiment with Alertec before going to Adderall.

Comparing Adderall to Piracetam is like comparing a Ferrari/Lamborghini to a Pinto. Modafinil is supposed to be the Mercedes/BMW/Audi, somewhere in between the two, moderately high performance but fewer side effects.

#12 iliketurtles

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:02 AM

What brand on Piracetam do you guys use?

#13 Moddy2012

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 05:03 AM

What brand on Piracetam do you guys use?



I used Primaforce, also you need to take it with Choline. Primaforce sells it in 500 gram containers. Look on any vitamin supplement website.

To be brutally honest its not going to do much when you compare it actual prescription medication used for ADD.

#14 kikai93

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 06:40 AM

I used Primaforce, also you need to take it with Choline. Primaforce sells it in 500 gram containers. Look on any vitamin supplement website.

To be brutally honest its not going to do much when you compare it actual prescription medication used for ADD.


Well, you definitely won't notice much acute effect, certainly NOTHING like the "feeling" one gets from dexedrine or even methylphenidate.
I'd love to see how the racetams stack up at the 1, 3, and 8 year marks, since extant data shows diminishing returns from psychostimulants over the long term, ending at "no different than unmedicated" at around the three year mark.
(If you doubt this, google NIMH MTA Study, read the original study and the three and eight year followups).

#15 irishmonkey1992

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 05:40 PM

Just wanted to comment on my use of Adderall and Piracetam. This is in response to a couple of posts recommending against using these two togehter (due to lack of information on the safety of combining them).

I have been using Adderall for a couple of years (not everyday but several times a week). In addition I use lion's mane. About a month ago I decided to add some nootropics to improve cognition. I started with 1600mgs of Piracetam along with CDP Choline, L-Theanine and Bocapo taken daily.

On their one the piracetam mix with the lion's mane works very well. I have noticed improved memory and word recall and have also experienced improved verbal ability. I have not noticed any significant increase in mental energy though. When taken with Adderall (I take 5 to 10 mgs of adderall a couple of hours after the piracetam mix), I feel like Albert Einstein. It's like the Adderall ramps everything up but without feeling over stimulated. I honestly feel smarter. On its own Adderall gives me a lot of mental energy and I am very focused and productive but I don't feel smarter (although my word recall improves). When I combine the adderall with the nootropics I feel intellectually like I am operating on a much higher level. I also notice a decrease in Adderall side effects. I think this might relate to the CDP choline and the Theanine.

I am concerned with the safety of using Adderall with Piracetam together but I am also in the position that each alone does not solve my problems. Together though they have helped me overcome a lot of what I think are ADD related problems.

It appears that Ritalin and Piracetam can be safely taken together. I just don't know if Ritalin works as well as Adderall.


I have used Piracetam and Choline for a while and the effects are only slight. Adderall is the strongest ADD drug out there. I would bet that most of the effect you are getting with regards to focus and concentration is coming from the Adderall.

I am going to experiment with Alertec before going to Adderall.

Comparing Adderall to Piracetam is like comparing a Ferrari/Lamborghini to a Pinto. Modafinil is supposed to be the Mercedes/BMW/Audi, somewhere in between the two, moderately high performance but fewer side effects.


You's are all so lucky having access to Adderall :( I'd only want it for 2/3 months to get over my A-Levels to ensure that I get into University.

#16 Biocells1

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:08 AM

Please Read!

I feel that I need to inform people after reading all the questions and comments on using Adderall to enhance brain performance.
I have been using Adderall for 11 yrs prescribed by a Dr. for ADD. In the beginning I felt the surge of what I thought was brain enhancement. I could do anything.......Now I just exist. My memory is lost-Someone mentioned their recall was better-get ready to say goodbye to that! I'm not talking about forgetting where my keys are or putting the milk in the pantry-I mean looking at your family member and you can't remember their name. I am finding it hard to pull simple words out of my brain- my family are constantly filling in the "blanks" when I speak with them. I truley feel like a Zombie.

I'm a 40yr old female that excercises an hour daily,I take Omega 3/6/9 daily and read whatever I can get my hands on about the brain. I take care of myself and eat very healthy. I have taken the exact same dose for 11yrs 10 mg 2x daily. Within an hour of taking a dose I can feel the side effects- my brain drain.

I just finished a book called Power Up Your Brain- I'm currently weening myself of these neurotoxic pills.
Please research what Adderall REALLY does to our brains-Research the mitochondria and what this medicine does to it. Doctors say that they don't know long term side effects of this medication-well, maybe they need to talk to me...maybe now we are seeing these side effects. ***Starting Nursing School-NO WAY WOULD I BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH IT ON ADDERALL-IRONIC BUT SO,SO TRUE! Best of Luck :)

#17 Valor5

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:58 PM

Please Read!

I feel that I need to inform people after reading all the questions and comments on using Adderall to enhance brain performance.
I have been using Adderall for 11 yrs prescribed by a Dr. for ADD. In the beginning I felt the surge of what I thought was brain enhancement. I could do anything.......Now I just exist. My memory is lost-Someone mentioned their recall was better-get ready to say goodbye to that! I'm not talking about forgetting where my keys are or putting the milk in the pantry-I mean looking at your family member and you can't remember their name. I am finding it hard to pull simple words out of my brain- my family are constantly filling in the "blanks" when I speak with them. I truley feel like a Zombie.

I'm a 40yr old female that excercises an hour daily,I take Omega 3/6/9 daily and read whatever I can get my hands on about the brain. I take care of myself and eat very healthy. I have taken the exact same dose for 11yrs 10 mg 2x daily. Within an hour of taking a dose I can feel the side effects- my brain drain.

I just finished a book called Power Up Your Brain- I'm currently weening myself of these neurotoxic pills.
Please research what Adderall REALLY does to our brains-Research the mitochondria and what this medicine does to it. Doctors say that they don't know long term side effects of this medication-well, maybe they need to talk to me...maybe now we are seeing these side effects. ***Starting Nursing School-NO WAY WOULD I BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH IT ON ADDERALL-IRONIC BUT SO,SO TRUE! Best of Luck :)

I like these sobering posts. That sucks for you. I am wondering if you have Parkinsonian symptoms by any chance, tremor, slowness, muscle rigidity, eyes do not dilate to light, any eye problems at all, near vision?

#18 Biocells1

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:30 PM

Hi valory5, No tremors, slowness, muscle rigity or eye problems at all-happy to say! Most of my issues are with memmory and concentration. Most people would say thats because I have ADD but I feel I fell into the over diagnosed population-yes I'm a spaz but never had the problems I have now-I was 3.8 student in college. I just started taking Coconut oil, tumeric,green tea (ECGC),cardio and of course omegas in hopes to activate Nrf2 pathways. I know I can heal my brain but do hope it's not too late. Hahahaa :)

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#19 fastliketree

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:08 PM

I just wanted to answer an earlier question and hopefully address some of the worries that this page may or may not bring up. I want to talk about the potential for neurotoxicity while taking dopaminergic agents along side piracetam.

First off this area remains highly unstudied, and, thus, it is hard to say with perfect clarity whether or not there are negative short-term or long-term side effects associated with this combination. This being said, there have been many unsubstantiated claims made in regards to the potential excitotoxity of these two agents, a claim which I seek to dispel. Excitotoxicity has never been an observed phenomenon with any dopaminergic agents (that I am aware of). While increases in dopamine saturation can lead to increased levels of glutamate transmission in the prefrontal cortex, the levels of glutamate cannot reach neurotoxic levels and hence are not worrisome. As for piracetam, though the proliferation of NMDA transmission has been observed in mice brains, no dosage of piracetam has been shown to be toxic. To put it simply the levels of glutamate in nerve synapses are unlikely to reach toxic levels simply because both the mechanisms related to these substances are indirect, not primarily glutamate related.

I think at this point that I should point out that amphetamines have been shown to be neurotoxic (albeit only slightly) because of oxidative stress resulting from excess dopamine. This phenomenon, however, is more controversial when it comes to dopamine reuptake inhibitors and many have argued that many dopaminergic agents do not have the potential to cause damage.
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