132 replies to this topic

[angus]

Hi,

Anyone tried taking this new magnesium salt?
I'm refering to the study detailed on this thread in the Supplement forum:
Magnesium-L-threonate
The full study

Basicaly, compared to other magnesium supplements, this new magnesium salt seems to cross the Blood Brain Barrier better or at least, is more concentrate in the brain.

I've seen a chemical producer selling it online (China based):
Magnesium L threonate by Orchid Chemical
So, I'm wondering if it could be safe to buy it and try it.

Any thoughts?

TIA

Edited by angus, 19 December 2010 - 10:05 AM.

[Lufega]

If someone wants to buy from this seller and pack it I will definitely buy ! I have a big exam coming up in a few months and need to study,

[Delta Gamma]

I'm a little skeptical if the same results can't be reached with chronic low level supplementation of more conventional magnesium, I've read some talk on mind and muscle that it had a higher ceiling concentration but I didn't see a study.

Also, is orchid a reliable company?

[niner]

I'm a little skeptical if the same results can't be reached with chronic low level supplementation of more conventional magnesium, I've read some talk on mind and muscle that it had a higher ceiling concentration but I didn't see a study.

Also, is orchid a reliable company?

Orchid Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals is a large, reputable Indian company, but that's not the Orchid being talked about here. The Orchid being talked about here is a new Chinese company, Orchid Chemical Supplies, Ltd., of unknown (to me, anyway) quality. Are they trying to trade on the good name of the Indian Orchid, or is it just a coincidence? Hard to say.

[nito]

Also heard about this magnesium. There was some post on it before and it claims to increase learning etc, but someone said it's not commercially available yet, perhaps it is now!

[NeuroGuy]

Theres another source for magnesium threonate, Sabre Sciences http://www.sabresciences.com/

They don't list it on their main page, but it's in two of their products, iMagT and iMagT Plus.

> iMagT (Mood, memory, concentration)
> Price $39
> Per tsp: 200mg Magnesium L-Threonate, 2500mg inositol
> We recommend using this product 2 times daily.
>
> iMagT Plus (sleep, metabolism, muscle mass, immune function)
> $39
> Per tsp: 500mg Inositol, 200mg Magnesium L-Threonate, 600mg L-Ornithine, 500mg L-Arginine, 500 L-Lysine, 500mg L-Glutamine, 10mg Zinc
> We recommend using 2 tsp at bedtime.


I asked them about the magnesium threonate concentration in the iMagT product, and I got this response:

We received a more detailed Certificate of Analysis for the Magnesium L-Threonate, it is listed as 99.7% Pure Magnesium L-Threonate. However we need to do the calculations to get you the amount of elemental magnesium, but I hope this information is helpful in the meantime.

Take Care,
Jenine Stallard
Sabre Sciences, Inc
888-490-7300 x 105

Edited by NeuroGuy, 15 February 2011 - 11:58 PM.

[Lufega]

NeuroGuy, thanks for that update. Any idea how much elemental magnesium is found in 200mg Magnesium L-Threonate?

[Dorho]

NeuroGuy, thanks for that update. Any idea how much elemental magnesium is found in 200mg Magnesium L-Threonate?

The chemical formula of magnesium-L-threonate is Mg(C4H7O5)2, meaning it has 8 carbon atoms, 14 hydrogen atoms and 10 oxygen atoms per one magnesium atom. The atomic masses of each elements are Mg=24.305, C=12.011, H=1.008, O=16. The g/mol of magnesium-l-threonate would be 24.305+(12.011*8)+(1.008*14)+(10*16) = 24.305 + 96.088 + 14.112 + 160 = 294.505 g/mol, then we get the Mg proportion of it from 24.305 g/mol / 294.505 g/mol = about 8% of the mass would be elemental magnesium.

So 0,08*0.2 g = 0.016 or 16 mg of elemental magnesium. Hope that's right, it's been a while since I've calculated these kind of things.

[angus]

Just to inform you that I ordered 1kg of MgTh from this chinese supplier 5 weeks ago.

I'm taking from 500mg to 1.7g per day and the cognitive results are pretty impressive on short term memory, and more again on long term memory.
For instance, I can remind some old remembrances more easily. I remind my night dream in the morning and I feel (i know it's a bit subjective) more productive at work and more focused. Not as focused I've been when taking some combos like Bacopa+Ginko+Picamilon but without the sides effects (headaches).
As threonate seems just a metabolite of vitamin C, the energy boost effect I have since taking it could be related to this.

I suggest others to try it. As someone reported, it's even available in Sabre Science's iMagT products, even if MgTh is not yet FDA approved, which should calm the more paranoid of you.

Since it has a kind of adaptogen effect as I described above, I don't take it at night anymore to avoid sleep disorder; one thing I did not have to do w/ other Mg supplement forms like Gluconate Mg which is also recommended in the study but for short term memory effect only.

Calcium L-Threonate is already available on the market and I've seen studies on L-Threonate Iron form, which could have a better biodisponibility and it won't be difficult since all iron forms are very badly assimilated.

Seems we'll speak more and more of L-Threonate in the future.
My 2 cents.

Hi,

Anyone tried taking this new magnesium salt?
I'm refering to the study detailed on this thread in the Supplement forum:
Magnesium-L-threonate
The full study

Basicaly, compared to other magnesium supplements, this new magnesium salt seems to cross the Blood Brain Barrier better or at least, is more concentrate in the brain.

I've seen a chemical producer selling it online (China based):
Magnesium L threonate by Orchid Chemical
So, I'm wondering if it could be safe to buy it and try it.

Any thoughts?

TIA

[John Barleycorn]

The chemical formula of magnesium-L-threonate is Mg(C4H7O5)2, meaning it has 8 carbon atoms, 14 hydrogen atoms and 10 oxygen atoms per one magnesium atom.

There could possibly be some water of crystallisation in there as well. I believe this occurs with the lactate salt, meaning that some calculations overestimate the proportion of Mg.

[niner]

This is an interesting paper. They fed the rats a LOT of magnesium; 50mg/kg/d. If you transfer that straight across to a 70kg human, that's 3500mg elemental magnesium per day, which equates to 42 grams of magnesium threonate. Do you really need that much? Well, they said:

We found that 50 mg/kg/day (elemental Mg2+) is the minimum effective dose

Might rats and humans have different abilities to transport Mg threonate into CSF? Different sensitivities to Mg2+? Maybe, maybe not. I would still make my base assumption that I would need to take a ton of this new magnesium salt in order to have a significant effect.

BTW, this counterion is not related to the amino acid threonine. It's the ion of threonic acid, a weird little sugar that is the same thing as 2,3,4 trihydroxy butyric acid. It must get pulled into the brain by a sugar transporter.

[Lufega]

Just took my first dose of magnesium threonate. On first impression, it dissolves very easily in water and it's virtually tasteless. The effect came on very rapidly and I feel more alert and focused. I do not feel any peripheral effect (on my body) and I do with other forms of magnesium. It feels like it went straight up to my brain. I had a couple other people try it and they reported the same. I do not think you'll need 42 grams of this to get an effect on memory but we will see. I'll try capping it to 500 mg pills to have better control of the dose.

Edited by Lufega, 23 March 2011 - 05:41 PM.

[Deckah]

Are you all buying it from Orchid? Was quoted 295usd per kg.

[Lufega]

Are you all buying it from Orchid? Was quoted 295usd per kg.

Yep. I was quoted at 265 to Florida. I tried capping the stuff, made such a mess ! Probably better to use as a powder IMO.

[Thales]

Are you all buying it from Orchid? Was quoted 295usd per kg.

Yep. I was quoted at 265 to Florida. I tried capping the stuff, made such a mess ! Probably better to use as a powder IMO.

I would like an update on your experience so far with Magnesium L-threonate if you have a moment to spare. Are you still getting the same benefits and have you noticed any side effects? Thanks!

[Lufega]

I'm noticing improved memory recall, better understanding of stuff when I read and I seem to be able to express myself better. I also get a strong sense of alertness after taking a dose. This effect fades over the next few hours but the memory effects do not.

[spider]

I'm noticing improved memory recall, better understanding of stuff when I read and I seem to be able to express myself better. I also get a strong sense of alertness after taking a dose. This effect fades over the next few hours but the memory effects do not.

Wow, kind of spectacular. This is the first MagnLT experience I have read so far. I have been reading about this magnesium form with interest for quite some time now. I must say I can't wait to try it myself. Unfortunately, it will probably take a while before it will be available in small supplement or pharm quantities.

[mlt500]

If people are still interested, my partner and I are working to bring Magnesium l-threonate to the US. For more details, see here.

It's a big investment so we're gathering names for an interest list - the more people who sign up, the sooner we will be able to launch, so if you are interested please let your friends know.

[Wombattery]

I'm noticing improved memory recall, better understanding of stuff when I read and I seem to be able to express myself better. I also get a strong sense of alertness after taking a dose. This effect fades over the next few hours but the memory effects do not.

Lufega

What doses are you taking? I think im going to try the Sabre Sciences product first and see how that goes before I think of committing to a large order from China. Curious though, what was the reason you opted out for the China product instead of the Sabre Sciences? Do you think the added inositol will change the effects of the MgT?

[Lufega]

I'm noticing improved memory recall, better understanding of stuff when I read and I seem to be able to express myself better. I also get a strong sense of alertness after taking a dose. This effect fades over the next few hours but the memory effects do not.

Lufega

What doses are you taking? I think im going to try the Sabre Sciences product first and see how that goes before I think of committing to a large order from China. Curious though, what was the reason you opted out for the China product instead of the Sabre Sciences? Do you think the added inositol will change the effects of the MgT?

The sabre product is not just magnesium but has other stuff. I just went directly for the real thing. I try to measure out 500 mg but I do it by eye. At that dose, that kilo will last me a couple of years.

[Wombattery]

Lufega

Thanks for the feedback. I would want to directly order with Orchid as well but they have not gotten back to me for over a week. I've sent over 5 emails and no one has responded. I guess I will just wait it out. If you have another contact from the company that could be of use do you mind forwarding it over? I would like to order immediately as possible as I know the shipping time will be a long wait.

regards,

The sabre product is not just magnesium but has other stuff. I just went directly for the real thing. I try to measure out 500 mg but I do it by eye. At that dose, that kilo will last me a couple of years.

[Sillewater]

Anyone know how safe threonates are? I saw that the EFSA approved of its use with calcium (http://www.nutraingr...ments-says-EFSA), but is it approved with magnesium? We get intake of calcium l-threonate in diet apparently (1). Paper (2) is the original study that started the interest and commentary (3) provides mechanistic explanation. Reading the patent it sure looks interesting (4). How much does it cost, anyone have reliable suppliers they would like to list out w/ price? I'm not going to try it yet, just interested (I'm sticking with diet).

From (3):

It should be interesting to test MgT in models of neurological injury wherein Mg2+ has been implicated, such as stroke, head-injury, epilepsy, AD, and Parkinson's disease. One issue facing the planning of potential clinical trials is the large dose that was effective in the current studies: 604 mg/kg/d (50 mg eq Mg). Even when allowing for a body surface area correction when translating (Reagan-Shaw et al., 2008), the estimated human dose for early phase trials would be 98 mg/kg/d or about 7 g of MgT per day, which could be an impractical dose for a trial. However, this work should spur the exploration of further novel Mg2+ ionophores or organic chaperones. In any case, work like this enhances the appreciation of the inorganic milieu of the brain beyond the preoccupation with calcium. Hence, “Kalzium ist nicht alles.”

References

1. J Am Diet Assoc. 2011 May;111(5):687-95.Calcium Intake in the United States from Dietary and Supplemental Sources across Adult Age Groups: New Estimates from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2003-2006.Mangano KM, Walsh SJ, Insogna KL, Kenny AM, Kerstetter JE.

2. Neuron. 2010 Jan 28;65(2):165-77.Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium.Slutsky I, Abumaria N, Wu LJ, Huang C, Zhang L, Li B, Zhao X, Govindarajan A, Zhao MG, Zhuo M, Tonegawa S, Liu G.

3. Neuron. 2010 Jan 28;65(2):143-4.Kalzium ist nicht alles.Bush AI.

4. http://www.freepaten...20110020443.pdf

Edited by Sillewater, 12 May 2011 - 06:26 AM.

[workebox]

Wombattery, we should get a couple of other people together and buy 1 kg from Orchid. Split the product and the fee Anyone interested?

Lufega

What doses are you taking? I think im going to try the Sabre Sciences product first and see how that goes before I think of committing to a large order from China. Curious though, what was the reason you opted out for the China product instead of the Sabre Sciences? Do you think the added inositol will change the effects of the MgT?
[/quote]

[Thales]

Apparently Orchid has sent out an email to those who have recently ordered magnesium L-threonate saying that it is not safe for human consumption. This was just posted in a thread on the subject in the dual n-back group forum, however it looks like the thread has now been deleted. Maybe some of the people on this forum who have been ordering it can verify this for us.

[Thales]

I found the thread.its the last one. http://groups.google...29f72f0a4dadb7a

Apparently Orchid has sent out an email to those who have recently ordered magnesium L-threonate saying that it is not safe for human consumption. This was just posted in a thread on the subject in the dual n-back group forum, however it looks like the thread has now been deleted. Maybe some of the people on this forum who have been ordering it can verify this for us.

Edited by Thales, 22 May 2011 - 03:58 PM.

[niner]

I found the thread.its the last one. http://groups.google...29f72f0a4dadb7a

Apparently Orchid has sent out an email to those who have recently ordered magnesium L-threonate saying that it is not safe for human consumption. This was just posted in a thread on the subject in the dual n-back group forum, however it looks like the thread has now been deleted. Maybe some of the people on this forum who have been ordering it can verify this for us.

Thanks Thales. Orchid's warning could mean that it was a technical grade not meant for human consumption, or it might be pretty clean and they are just covering their asses. Unless someone analyzes it, there's no way to know.

[Ark]

I found the thread.its the last one. http://groups.google...29f72f0a4dadb7a

Apparently Orchid has sent out an email to those who have recently ordered magnesium L-threonate saying that it is not safe for human consumption. This was just posted in a thread on the subject in the dual n-back group forum, however it looks like the thread has now been deleted. Maybe some of the people on this forum who have been ordering it can verify this for us.

Thanks Thales. Orchid's warning could mean that it was a technical grade not meant for human consumption, or it might be pretty clean and they are just covering their asses. Unless someone analyzes it, there's no way to know.

Bump for another source..........

[Lufega]

This is the message I got from them. I think they are just covering their asses.

We Orchid have to declare that our goods Magnesium L-threonate is just chemical product, it should not be eaten directly, it is not edible !

It is just for R&D Purpose. Despite it could be as material for brain health products.

[Gecko]

I don't know much about it, but surely this is the relevant quote from the other forum:

"I had also written to Orchid and
they sent me a COA showing MgT of 99.25% purity (assuming by HPLC). One
thing I noticed was that their arsenic cut off levels was 2ppm. They just
say their product 'conforms' to their 'specifications' of 2ppm but don't
give actual numbers from their assay. Is 2ppm high or is it within safe
levels? The wikipedia article on arsenic
poisoning<http://en.wikipedia...._poisoning>says that the
WHO recommendation is 10ppb in drinking water and even as low
as 0.17ppb in drinking water can lead to long terms effects. Anyways, please
send in your thoughts. "

Just something I thought might be worth looking at?

[choqueiro]

Hi. I´m very interested in Magnesium L-Threonate. Recently I write to Sabre Sciences asking for their product iMagT. They answer me this:

"Thank you for contacting Sabre Sciences. Yes, we have 2 products that contain magnesium l-threonate (MgT). We use clean formulas that contain no parabens, artificial colors, fragrances, flavors or fillers. Here is the info on the iMagT & iMagT Plus. These products are in powder form. We have had thousands of people use this product, including children with no serious side effects. If you take too much you may feel slightly fatigued, a small percentage of people reported headache.


Here is the breakdown for the 2 products that contain MgT,
iMagT (Mood, memory, concentration) Price $39
Per tsp: 200mg Magnesium L-Threonate, 1500mg inositol. We recommend using this product 2 times daily, 1tsp mixed into water twice per day. May take up to 4tsp mixed into water per day.

iMagT Plus (sleep, metabolism, muscle mass, immune function) $39
Per tsp: 250mg Inositol, 100mg Magnesium L-Threonate, 300mg L-Ornithine, 250mg L-Arginine, 250 L-Lysine, 250mg L-Glutamine, 5mg Zinc. We recommend using 2 tsp at bedtime, mix into water.

Please feel free to reply to this email or call if you have any questions. To place an order you will need to call 888-490-7300 so we can set up your account, from there on in you can order over email if that is easier for you.

Take Care,"

Even though MgT looks promising, what do you think about taking this product before it´s approval for human consumptiom?? It is safe??
When we can expect to see this product in the market and how long trials in humans will last??