16 replies to this topic

[SayIDoAndIDont]

L-tyrosine breaks down into dopamine and norepinephrine while L-phenylalanine breaks down into L-tyrosine and some other substances. What are they? I do know that L-phenylalanine is decarbolyxated into L-phenethylamine, but is that it? Why is L-tyrosine more common if L-phenylalanine does what L-tyrosine does and also increases the amount of phenethylamine in the brain?

[Delta Gamma]

L-phenylalanine is converted to L-tyrosine in vivo, L-tyrosine arguably has a bit more direct effect mentally as less of it is used elsewhere in the body compared to L-phenylalanine. One could argue that L-tyrosine has a faster effect too, as it has one less reaction to go to before it reaches the rate limiting enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase.

Its kind of more demand based than science based.

Hoped that cleared it up for you.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

What does L-phenylalanine break down into that isn't used in the nervous system? Also, I noticed that the recommended dosage for L-tyrosine is much higher, at one gram three times per day, while L-phenylalanine has a recommended dosage of 500 mg once daily. Why is the dosage for L-phenylalanine so small if a lot of it gets metabolized into L-tyrosine?

Edited by SayIDoAndIDont, 22 December 2010 - 11:56 PM.

[Delta Gamma]

What does L-phenylalanine break down into that isn't used in the nervous system? Also, I noticed that the recommended dosage for L-tyrosine is much higher, at one gram three times per day, while L-phenylalanine has a recommended dosage of 500 mg once daily. Why is the dosage for L-phenylalanine so small if a lot of it gets metabolized into L-tyrosine?

Different companies with different standards maybe? Maybe that's a tyrosine dosage for those who have phenylketonuria, and a phenylalanine dosage for someone just wanting a slight increase in DA production. As I said, its more demand based than science based.

[Delta Gamma]

What does L-phenylalanine break down into that isn't used in the nervous system?

Proteins and various other things of the like, I think it would also be converted to tyrosine and made into thyroid hormones. Unless I'm forgetting some trace amine or neuropeptide, tyrosine and phenylalanine have similar effects.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

Proteins and various other things of the like, I think it would also be converted to tyrosine and made into thyroid hormones. Unless I'm forgetting some trace amine or neuropeptide, tyrosine and phenylalanine have similar effects.

How much do tryptophan and tyrosine interfere with each other in the BBB pathway they use? I believe I have an abundance of dopamine and a deficit in serotonin. If I took only tryptophan, would my dopamine levels fall? Ideally, I want to raise serotonin and keep dopamine constant.

[amark]

If you take l tyrosine do it on an empty stomach otherwise it is infective.

Proteins and various other things of the like, I think it would also be converted to tyrosine and made into thyroid hormones. Unless I'm forgetting some trace amine or neuropeptide, tyrosine and phenylalanine have similar effects.

How much do tryptophan and tyrosine interfere with each other in the BBB pathway they use? I believe I have an abundance of dopamine and a deficit in serotonin. If I took only tryptophan, would my dopamine levels fall? Ideally, I want to raise serotonin and keep dopamine constant.

[Delta Gamma]

Proteins and various other things of the like, I think it would also be converted to tyrosine and made into thyroid hormones. Unless I'm forgetting some trace amine or neuropeptide, tyrosine and phenylalanine have similar effects.

How much do tryptophan and tyrosine interfere with each other in the BBB pathway they use? I believe I have an abundance of dopamine and a deficit in serotonin. If I took only tryptophan, would my dopamine levels fall? Ideally, I want to raise serotonin and keep dopamine constant.

They both use the same transport protein, so thats about as competitive as it gets. There's also the fact that AA compete for absorption in the gut.
5HTP doesn't have this problem, but you'd need to load up on stuff which prevents peripheral decarboxylation or end up with all sorts of side effects.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

They both use the same transport protein, so thats about as competitive as it gets. There's also the fact that AA compete for absorption in the gut.
5HTP doesn't have this problem, but you'd need to load up on stuff which prevents peripheral decarboxylation or end up with all sorts of side effects.

So amino acids are best taken on an empty stomach? That makes sense, isn't as convenient though.

What is peripheral decarboxylation? Is it decarboxylation in the PNS? So tryptophan gets turned into serotonin in the PNS...how is that a problem?

If you take l tyrosine do it on an empty stomach otherwise it is infective.

Infective? What do you mean?

[Delta Gamma]

They both use the same transport protein, so thats about as competitive as it gets. There's also the fact that AA compete for absorption in the gut.
5HTP doesn't have this problem, but you'd need to load up on stuff which prevents peripheral decarboxylation or end up with all sorts of side effects.

So amino acids are best taken on an empty stomach? That makes sense, isn't as convenient though.

What is peripheral decarboxylation? Is it decarboxylation in the PNS? So tryptophan gets turned into serotonin in the PNS...how is that a problem?

If you take l tyrosine do it on an empty stomach otherwise it is infective.

Infective? What do you mean?

First question, you pretty much got it, stuff like green tea has been found to act as a safe inhibitor of aromatic amino acid decarboxylase and is virtually devoid of any amino acid but theanine. It prevents the conversion of 5HTP to serotonin in the gut and bloodstream... trust me there's a reason they call it serotonin (sero= blood tonin=constriction).

Second Question: pretty much what happens if you take it on a full stomach is the competition from the other AA's prevents it from being absorbed in significant quantities

[SayIDoAndIDont]

First question, you pretty much got it, stuff like green tea has been found to act as a safe inhibitor of aromatic amino acid decarboxylase and is virtually devoid of any amino acid but theanine. It prevents the conversion of 5HTP to serotonin in the gut and bloodstream... trust me there's a reason they call it serotonin (sero= blood tonin=constriction).

Second Question: pretty much what happens if you take it on a full stomach is the competition from the other AA's prevents it from being absorbed in significant quantities

I always had pretty big veins, could this be because I have a deficit in serotonin?

Hmm...I don't like the idea of taking something like enzyme inhibitors in the long term...I guess I'll just continue taking my current amount of tryptophan, but on an empty stomach. I'm taking three heaping teaspoons of inositol a day and it works great. Inositol has apparently been shown to reduce serotonin desensitivation, which I just found out, so I don't need to increase my dosage of tryptophan or take a enzyme inhibitor.

Inositol is the most enjoyable supplement I've ever taken. Caffeine gives me nervous energy, but inositol gives me greatness energy. Inositol also tastes sweet and dissolves nicely in water. Depressed people have little inositol in their cerebrospinal fluid while euphoric people have a lot of it in their cerebrospinal fluid. It's completely nontoxic so the more inositol you take, the happier you'll be.

[Delta Gamma]

First question, you pretty much got it, stuff like green tea has been found to act as a safe inhibitor of aromatic amino acid decarboxylase and is virtually devoid of any amino acid but theanine. It prevents the conversion of 5HTP to serotonin in the gut and bloodstream... trust me there's a reason they call it serotonin (sero= blood tonin=constriction).

Second Question: pretty much what happens if you take it on a full stomach is the competition from the other AA's prevents it from being absorbed in significant quantities

I always had pretty big veins, could this be because I have a deficit in serotonin?

Hmm...I don't like the idea of taking something like enzyme inhibitors in the long term...I guess I'll just continue taking my current amount of tryptophan, but on an empty stomach. I'm taking three heaping teaspoons of inositol a day and it works great. Inositol has apparently been shown to reduce serotonin desensitivation, which I just found out, so I don't need to increase my dosage of tryptophan or take a enzyme inhibitor.

Inositol is the most enjoyable supplement I've ever taken. Caffeine gives me nervous energy, but inositol gives me greatness energy. Inositol also tastes sweet and dissolves nicely in water. Depressed people have little inositol in their cerebrospinal fluid while euphoric people have a lot of it in their cerebrospinal fluid. It's completely nontoxic so the more inositol you take, the happier you'll be.

Almost every common food inhibits one enzyme or another, if you want a almost frighting example look at black pepper. Good to hear the inositol is working out for you, but to be honest try to avoid polypharmacy if you don't understand the possible interactions. Tryptophan, green tea, and inositol is a safe one as far as I know, but do your best to become more literate in the topic.

Without any offense intended, you seem pretty inexperienced in life sciences, so I would be very cautious about blindly supplementing without being able to do your own research. I'd be glad to point you in the right direction if you send me a PM because while you are asking useful questions cranking off 3 or 4 threads about basic topics or easily available information clutters the board.

Edited by Delta Gamma, 25 December 2010 - 10:13 AM.

[SayIDoAndIDont]

Almost every common food inhibits one enzyme or another, if you want a almost frighting example look at black pepper. Good to hear the inositol is working out for you, but to be honest try to avoid polypharmacy if you don't understand the possible interactions. Tryptophan, green tea, and inositol is a safe one as far as I know, but do your best to become more literate in the topic.

Without any offense intended, you seem pretty inexperienced in life sciences, so I would be very cautious about blindly supplementing without being able to do your own research. I'd be glad to point you in the right direction if you send me a PM because while you are asking useful questions cranking off 3 or 4 threads about basic topics or easily available information clutters the board.

Yes, I am rather inexperienced in this kind of stuff so I'll PM you if I have some rather basic or novice questions. Thanks!

[smoothVTer]

Almost every common food inhibits one enzyme or another, if you want a almost frighting example look at black pepper. Good to hear the inositol is working out for you, but to be honest try to avoid polypharmacy if you don't understand the possible interactions. Tryptophan, green tea, and inositol is a safe one as far as I know, but do your best to become more literate in the topic.

Without any offense intended, you seem pretty inexperienced in life sciences, so I would be very cautious about blindly supplementing without being able to do your own research. I'd be glad to point you in the right direction if you send me a PM because while you are asking useful questions cranking off 3 or 4 threads about basic topics or easily available information clutters the board.
[/quote]


DeltaGamma: would do you mean about black pepper? Can you elaborate a little further?

[SayIDoAndIDont]

DeltaGamma: would do you mean about black pepper? Can you elaborate a little further?

https://secure.wikim...per#As_medicine

Black pepper extract is marketed as "Bioperin" and it's sometimes used in certain supplements to aid in absorption of them.

[longevitynow]

I prefer/notice the effect of DL-phenylalanine more than tyrosine. I've taken them both in doses of 1-3 grams in water between meals. Felt a little sharper with the DL-phen, which supposedly has some pain-killing/relaxing effects also (couldn't say I noticed that). Not nearly as strong as deprenyl (but the DL-phen helps Deprenyl work better fro depression, supposedly).

[mrcutting]

i take prozac 20 mg capsule and modafinil 200 mg when i wake up. after, i eat poppy butter about 50 gr with nescafe (2 gram coffe and 20-30 ml coffe). affects focus, mental enhancements (reading, understanding and memory). by the way creativitiy is increasing because ideas is mixing easly.. i can estimate people ideals, feelings and behavior. their cognitive process look like slowly for me. it continues one or two hours