570 replies to this topic

[nootropi]

Magr,

Okay, if you will pay for the test, then let us work together to bargain for a better deal on the testing of more products. I will converse with you personally later this month.

Be well.

[Mike M]

If a test comes back bad -- the procedure is quite simple, those whom recieved the product will have a choice, refund, or an exchange for another product. But at least we have a vendor taking steps towards safety and customer satisfaction; unlike yourself, Mr. 1fast400.

What will happen if Rizzer gets mad and says the sample sent was wrong? Now it is his word vs the consumer. If it starts to damage his business, don't kid yourself, he will go after someone.

I have other things to do today, and probably for the remainder of the week and the one that follows it; I will probably not be available for comment until mid December, when I will be coordinating the testing of Chinese imports with the members whom are respected as contributors to the knowledge base of this forum.

During that time go read a few law books.

[todd_lee]

During that time go read a few law books.

Nootropi always argues on things he knows nothing about.

[stellar]

Nootropi always argues on things he knows nothing about.

Shut up and stick to the topic.

PS: I'm glad he didn't waste the time to address the question you posed to him regarding Modafinil.


[lol]

[todd_lee]

You fool. This topic is on smi2le.biz and his lover, namely, Nootropi.

[pinballwizard]

I just made another purchase at SMI2LE.BIZ as well as 4 other online stores. I was complaining earlier about an uncompleted order for a few weeks, but I am obviously beyond that now.

My loyalty is only to this group. I am gonna submit a chemical for evaluation from SMI2LE. I will post the results here, no matter what they are. It may take a long while(weeks-months), because I have not done it before. If you have any suspector defective products to test/stump either with 1fast400 or SMI2LE let me know...

Thanks,

Pinball

[Mike M]

I am gonna submit a chemical for evaluation from SMI2LE. I will post the results here, no matter what they are.

I highly suggest you reconsider this. Please look at the law before making such a move. You have no idea how much you are opening yourself up to.

[geigertube]

I have to agree with this. A gentleman on another forum did some tests on a popular adult toy, and posted the results, saying that the material they were made of contained a chemical that could be hazardous. He received a nastygram from the company's lawyer, and had to retract the statement. I'm not saying Rizzer would do this, but it is a possibility to consider.

[nootropi]

I highly suggest you reconsider this.  Please look at the law before making such a move.  You have no idea how much you are opening yourself up to.

Pinball: don't listen to this 1fast400 character. Just learn from the implications of his statement; it is clear that he (Mr. Mike McClandless, or owner of 1fast400) believes that our safety should not be the PRIMARY concern; when clearly this is the primary concern.

Gotta go, talk later.

[Mike M]

Pinball: don't listen to this 1fast400 character. Just learn from the implications of his statement; it is clear that he (Mr. Mike McClandless, or owner of 1fast400) believes that our safety should not be the PRIMARY concern; when clearly this is the primary concern.

Yeah, I'm obviously not looking out for him. You'd have him lose his assets in order for you to get a powder tested. Just call the little lab you use and have them order direct. You will then pay the lab after the testing. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

Maybe you are just worried the lab rep won't be one of those choosen people rizzer decides to send product to. According to you, he should only respond to certain people. Hell, I'd test his powders if he'd actually send them out.

[nootropi]

Yeah, I'm obviously not looking out for him.  You'd have him lose his assets in order for you to get a powder tested.  Just call the little lab you use and have them order direct.  You will then pay the lab after the testing.  I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

Maybe you are just worried the lab rep won't be one of those choosen people rizzer decides to send product to.  According to you, he should only respond to certain people.  Hell, I'd test his powders if he'd actually send them out.

Honestly, 1fast400, I am sure everybody would be happy if there were in fact two credible suppliers of bulk/retail nootropics. I would be, personally. Unfortunately, you also have been largely impotent in bringing new nootropics to market and your market history is indicative of copy what smi2le sells instead of bringing us new products.

You have a limited understanding of the way intelligent people do business.

In your limited frame of perception, I see that you see product testing as a liability, rather than an asset (which it could be, if you were humble enough to admit that you are less than perfect and so are your Chinese suppliers).

You underestimate and further cannot comprehend what intelligent people can do or how we operate. I do not know why.

Selling pharmaceuticals imported from China is a liability in itself. The fact that you do not see a greater liability in potentially selling products that may contain minute quantities of potentially deadly contaminants than trusting your own client base to conduct an organized independent testing project clearly indicates that you do not trust the very people on which you base your livelyhood; further, you may be endangering our lives.

You see, the difference between Rizzer and yourself is that Rizzer knows and respects the intelligence of his client base (ironically; we ingest these very products in an attempt to increase our intelligence to a level of competence of such basic principles). I have agreed to be partly accountable for those whom desire to test the products purchased from smi2le.biz. I myself will submit several samples, and because I know for a fact that several readers here know that I am independent and further consistent and honest, the results will be credible. To verify this credibilty factor for those readers holding the suspicion that I may not be competely independent, I will work with the very members of this commuity that you are trying to sell your products to in what will be an exhaustive proof of the power that can be harnessed by intelligent people working together to ensure our safety; furthermore we will validate that the products which we spend large sums are indeed what they are advertised as. This principle is very hard for you to grasp, apparently. I advise that you learn it, quickly.

Be well.

[Mike M]

Yawn. I hope you test something and it turns out bad. Then when you get the crap sued out of you, I'll just sit back and say: "I told you so".

I've been down the road you are trying to go, I've been sued trying to what you are trying to do. I've tried to explain this to you. You just hate me so much because I'm larger than rizzer. Your hatred for me is going to cause someone else a WHOLE lot of money. Don't say I didn't warn you.


Also, thought you couldn't respond till mid december, guess that was a lie.

[nootropi]

You have been sleeping in class your whole life, Mr. McClandless; it is no wonder simple concepts still baffle you.

Rizzer works a lot harder than you and is much more astute to these issues than yourself. He works hard to get the best products, that's why he can stand behind them. I have already tested two of his products, with excellent results.

Okay, so what, a product came back bad. Refund!

That is a simple principle called integrity, you should learn its definition.

Not you, Mr. McClandless; excuse me, you can go right back to sleep, don't let us bother you. Surely, for you and your clients, ignorance is bliss. Not for me.

[Mike M]

You assume he will refund you. What if he has an assay saying it is good?

The difference between rizzer and myself is that I don't trust a china COA. That is why my materials are tested before I buy.

[pinballwizard]

I highly suggest you reconsider this.  Please look at the law before making such a move.  You have no idea how much you are opening yourself up to.

I know the law. If I were sued for libel, which he won't. my defense can only be the truth... the assay itself. It speaks for itself. I would like to assay your stuff too.

Don't worry, you both will be fine. No one is out to get either one of you.

[itmustbeclose]

1FAST400 (Mr. McClandless), where is the COA for phenibut? Sorry, but I cannot seem to find it.

[scottl]

If he carries it, and it is not on the site, just PM him or DSade on avant and (I gather) they will try to post it for you.

[geigertube]

I dont understand why its such a problem to just send it to directly to the lab. This whole "community project" thing doesn't seem to add anything to this testing process but extra postage.

Steven

[Mike M]

I know the law. If I were sued for libel, which he won't. my defense can only be the truth... the assay itself. It speaks for itself. I would like to assay your stuff too

I've already posted my first lawsuit where I did something like this. It cost me 16k bucks eventhough I "won" the suit. The assay will speak for itself, but how do you plan on proving that you didn't mess with a sample if it comes back wrong? Legally, you can't. It is your word vs his. In a court of law, they will take his.

It amazes me this concept is so hard for people to grasp. If I sent a sample of his stuff in and it came back bad everyone would say I messed with it, but if another customer does, it is ok? Surely you can see the flaw in this logic.

The entire lawsuit I had is posted over at avant. It has all the court transcripts posted. I tried to make a testing site called LabelClaimsTesting.com. I got sued multiple times while trying to do that. In almost every case, but 1, the products were sent straight from the company to the lab. I had VPX threaten a lawsuit BEFORE the results were even done. I had to shut the site down a long time ago because of all of this. Go to bodybuilding.com and do a search under my name, 1Fast400 and label claims. You'll see a few threads were the lawsuits were played out on the internet. Hell, I got sued when SOMEONE else did the test, but I got a copy of the results. Because I posted the results, I got sued. Each of these cases cost me over 10k bucks. If you are prepared for something like that to happen, then go ahead. Just realize what can happen

[nootropi]

You assume he will refund you. What if he has an assay saying it is good?

The difference between rizzer and myself is that I don't trust a china COA. That is why my materials are tested before I buy.

First, let me apologize for my acerbic choice of words in earlier correspondences. As I am neither a custmer service representative nor an investor in smi2le.biz nor 1fast400, I would assume my choice of words would be a trivial consideration. Often I post here in the early morning, and I have little time to post here, I try to select the most efficient words to get my point across.

Now, to confront your issue regarding testing of Chinese nootropic imports: I ask you, Mr. McClandless, to pay very close attention, as this may be the last time I have the patience to repeat myself to you. Everytime I try to choose a different way of saying the same thing, as I have learned that some individuals are not capable of understanding concepts unless they are explained an idea in several different ways.

Mr. McClandless, you do not ingest nootropics; your interest in this market is motivated by a desire for profit. There is nothing wrong with that desire. It is a perfectly rational motive.

My interest in nootropics/supplements is to extend and/or enhance the quality of my life; have I lost you yet?

How can I feel comfortable ingesting what may have minute quantities of toxins if my supplier is not accountable for the integrity of these products? Given that I ingest close to ten kilograms of products imported from China per year, even minute, barely detectable amounts of toxins may be deadly. Do you understand?

Now, as you do not ingest nootropics, (or at least not as many as I do) your life would not be endangered by my death. As the nootropic/life extension market is your interest solely to profit, it is in your best interests to buy the cheapest possible products, and sell them at competitive prices in as high volumes as possible. Nowhere in this equation is concern for your own life. That is precisely the problem. For those who may actaully be ingesting your products, our life is at risk.

Therein lies the ultimate conflict of interest. Our life is at risk, and your goal is to profit. Do you still follow, Mr. McClandless?

You have no incentive to test your products. In fact, testing your products before selling them would decrease your profits substantially, and suppose that a product came back with a less than favorable result; suppose, say that your Aniracetam that you purchased from a Chinese suppier was tested to contain minute quantities of lead or some other neurotoxin? It would cost you even more money (and thus degrade your profits) to send the sample to another lab, correct? And let us suppose, in the best case scenario, that you did send a sample to another lab, and the second lab also found the same levels of lead. Then what would you do? The Chinese supplier surely would not want to refund your money, nor do you want to lose the opportunity costs associated with dealing with your supplier (Who, let me remind the readers, has previously sold false products to 1fast400, which in turn sold these products). So if a test came back "bad" it would be in your best interest (which is to profit) simply to sell the product in bulk quantities at a lower price. And reverting to your statement "we have somebody else test them for us" just won't fly, Mr. McClandless; because you have already sold false products from your website due to a supplier error.

Now, to the legal issues involved in testing Rizzer's products. If, say, a test came back with a negative result (ie. the product is not what it is advertised to be), I would then send the sample to another laboratory for confirmation. If indeed the second lab agreed the sample is negative, every customer should be refunded their money. Now, if there is simply a low level of purity (96-97%), but no detected toxic contaminants (recall we will use the HPLC method), then that should not be a basis for refund of the products. If the product indeed has low levels of toxins, then because the products are sold without considerations for those ingesting them, those ingesting them would be advised to stop taking these products, and would certainly be entitiled to a refund as well.

However, I am more than confident that the products that will be submitted with satisfy the requirements articulated. If, in fact, one product does come out with a particularly high level of toxins, that would be all the more reason to go forward testing these imports as our lives, not yours, is at risk. I have already tested two of Rizzer's products completely randomly with excellent results. Rizzer knows his products may be tested by his customers, so I am sure he does his best to purchase the highest quality products.

Here are the results of random tests of smi2le's idebenone and aniracetam:





It gives consumers great confidence if a vendor has policies that allow them to independently verify the purity of their products; now, when the results are as favorable as those above, the consumers group together to ensure that that vendor stays in business; because this vendor understands the reciprocal nature of the business relationship implied in a vendor in the life enhancement/life extension business. Hats off to smi2le. You should learn from him.

I have to get back to work, sorry everybody, I had more to say, but I have several other things to do today.

Be well.

Edited by nootropi, 06 January 2005 - 04:57 AM.

[Mike M]

Just to let you know, in my previous lawsuit IBC Labs was sued for improper testing techniques.

This lawsuit involved testing R-ala.

[magr]

--------------------------UPDATE!--------------------------


No product,

No email.


--------------------------UPDATE!--------------------------



It has only been a month since he said he would ship it.
Then again he has made such promises to me earlier.
Well, maybe i should cut him some slack, he has his life...


BS!

[ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang] [ang]

[Mike M]

Like I said, maybe this is why Nootropi doesn't want a lab to have the products sent direct. The lab might not ever get them!!

[krieg]

Rizzer still didn't refund me!

[eternaltraveler]

Nootropi if you read those court transcripts Mr. McClandless has provided us with you would see his point and you would stop debating in circles.

His points are legitimate and well taken.

Of course as a company owner he has a profit motive. So does Rizzer. This logic has no bearing. Although perhaps it does because Rizzer isn't doing a good job demonstrating his profit motive lately (poor service).

Although in Nootropi's defense Rizzer seems to be too incompetent to know how to sue anyone. So by this reasoning no one will probably get sued. So test away.

[eternaltraveler]

Although I will admit that I do have a problem with rizzer sending his stuff directly to the lab as well. If he sends it directly to the lab he will know to send only his "good" stuff. It's a two edged sword.

1fast400 do you have a viable solution to this corundum?

[Mike M]

Usually labs that order have a individual order, rather than the lab itself. This is what we did when doing testing of products. That is the only way for them not to know. If IBC did the test, he would obviously know who it was being sent to. We have 25 people working here, if a lab placed an order, I'd have no clue till way after the fact.

[todd_lee]

Nootropi if you read those court transcripts Mr. McClandless has provided us with you would see his point and you would stop debating in circles.

True. Nootropi, read the transcripts.

[nootropi]

No need for me read anything; neither does Rizzer. Mr. McClandless needs to keep up on all such trivial issues, but that is only a consequence of his poor performance and questionable ethics. When you sell people false products (as 1fast400 has) and further do not encourage independent consumer based testing, people do not trust you from the beginning as an immediate consequence. No trust in the beginning, no trust ever; that is another important principle several of you need to learn.

Elrond, todd_lee, etc.: Go ahead and purchase your nootropics from 1fast400. Nobody is trying to stop you. I however, warn you that you may in fact be risking your life doing so.

Rizzer is at the consumer's mercy; he is my agent. As far as I am concerned, he works for me. He is the one doing all the work, while I play. Personally, I do not want to bargain with Chinese powder dealers myself. Rizzer takes care of this for me, and for several others, because he is the best at it in the entire world. Yes, the entire world. [lol]

I work with him and several other members of this forum to ensure safety for anybody and everybody who is truly concerned about extending and/or enhancing the quality of their life.

Some of you are not aware of the history of this market. Please do educate yourselves; I really do not want to do such teaching all the time.

Why do you think 1fast400 has been so impotent bringing any effective nootropics to market? How many times have you heard Mr. McClanless yapping about how he has "someone just for sourcing stuff," and then realize that this "person" devoted "just for sourcing stuff" really does not do his job very well? We have seen no new products at 1fast400. Rizzer has been the only individual to bring centrophenoxine, sulbutiamine, and several other hard to obtain, effective nootropics to this market at never before seen prices. He deals with an intelligent client base, many of whom I consider my friends. He may not be the best at customer service, for you; but that is because you don't have a trusting relationship with him as I and several other members of this forum do with him. Be patient, approach him with respect, please.

See you later.

[pinballwizard]

I've already posted my first lawsuit where I did something like this.  It cost me 16k bucks eventhough I "won" the suit.  The assay will speak for itself, but how do you plan on proving that you didn't mess with a sample if it comes back wrong?  Legally, you can't.  It is your word vs his.  In a court of law, they will take his.

It amazes me this concept is so hard for people to grasp.  If I sent a sample of his stuff in and it came back bad everyone would say I messed with it, but if another customer does, it is ok?  Surely you can see the flaw in this logic. 

The entire lawsuit I had is posted over at avant.  It has all the court transcripts posted.  I tried to make a testing site called LabelClaimsTesting.com.  I got sued multiple times while trying to do that.  In almost every case, but 1, the products were sent straight from the company to the lab.  I had VPX threaten a lawsuit BEFORE the results were even done.  I had to shut the site down a long time ago because of all of this.  Go to bodybuilding.com and do a search under my name, 1Fast400 and label claims.  You'll see a few threads were the lawsuits were played out on the internet.  Hell, I got sued when SOMEONE else did the test, but I got a copy of the results.  Because I posted the results, I got sued.  Each of these cases cost me over 10k bucks.  If you are prepared for something like that to happen, then go ahead.  Just realize what can happen

Thanks for your contributing to the board 1fast400. I am sure there is some way to test the products without getting sued. If there are any lawyers out there that might be familiar let me know.

It amazes me this concept is so hard for people to grasp.  If I sent a sample of his stuff in and it came back bad everyone would say I messed with it, but if another customer does, it is ok?  Surely you can see the flaw in this logic.

I am not trying to be offensive, but I find the tone and the personal attacks make me want to skim over the posts on this thread very quickly. I still did not thoroughly read your post, and I will prior to really getting down and testing products... your perhaps. How would you like me to test your product w/o liability?

Pinball