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Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story


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#61 geigertube

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:15 PM

I have to agree with some of what elrond says.� Some of the comments nootropi makes do more to hurt than help this forum.


I welcome you to please explain, in detail, your case.

How am I to help this forum if I don't identify what I see clearly as garbage? Circular logic never worked for me. Maybe some of you enjoy circular logic. Let me make it clear: I don't.


Nootropi,

I think there are two pertinent issues here.

1. As far as I know, you aren't a moderator. If there is a signal to noise ratio problem on the boards, then a mod can step in and take care of it. Personally, I have found these discussions of Rizzer's business to be interesting and relevant.

2. Telling frustrated people to fuck off (practically) is less than productive, especially when they can be encouraged to make a quick phone call and sort out their problems in a couple of minutes. I haven't seen anyone make unreasonable demands of Rizzer's customer service. Telling people where their product is after you have their money is not some unusual customer service luxury. That said, he has had problems, and I think that encouraging patience and phonecalls is most productive at this point. Chargebacks from pissed off customers is only going to hurt Rizzer, and I would like to see him stay in business. :)

Steven

#62 nootropi

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:18 PM

Stephen,

You are only further perpetuating circular logic.

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#63 jokerace

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:40 PM

Stephen,

You are only further perpetuating circular logic.



I don't know what it is with you and this circular logic argument. If others are making an attempt at employing any type of logic, you have to see that it is leaps and bounds ahead of your senseless defense strategies and personal insults. Everyone who didn't get good service from Rizzer has a peronality disorder?

Everytime someone tries to reason with you you either insult them or insult their logic. I have not seen a very impressive demonstration of logical argument and conclusion coming from you.

I don't mean to make this an insult towards you. I just don't understand why you must dismiss everyone's comments. Surely you aren't saying that everyone else's logic is flawed and that your's is the only true logic. Are you?


As I said before, you are a great benefit to the forum when it comes to discussions of the science of nootropics and experience but it does hurt the forum if you bully people by discounting their thoughts and feelings.

#64 Mike M

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:51 PM

Does anyone have proof that the DEA deal even happened?

#65 unipolar_mania

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 01:00 AM

1FAST400, can you please put the COAs on your website for powder ginkgo, phenibut, etc.

Could you tell the members at this forum about the quality control measures you take to ensure that the powders you sell are free of contaminants?

#66 dopamine

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 05:21 AM

Unless someone breaks any "rules" of the board, they are free to post anything they like, and should not be intimidated by members who attempt to coerce them into silence. This thread contains information about nootropics, some of it I think is constructive and some of it I think is not. However, I recognize each person's right to pursue various topics relating to nootropics and I don't feel it is within my domain of control to limit discussion within certain bounds. I assume every member of this board feels that discussions will digress into various topics, and that it is acceptable since that is the natural outcome of this type of communication.

If someone has a bad experience with a company, I want to know about it, regardless of the member is new or old. If some people feel that this discussion is frivolous and devoid of substance, then they ought to exercise their right of non-participation. If they feel the problem is worth pursuing, then they ought to respond with their point of view and have it considered by others within this community. But to try and get people to not discuss something because you personally do not like the topic is a form of cognitive dissonance manifested in the form of attempted censorship where none is warranted.

#67 nootropi

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 05:43 AM

Nobody is saying to censor anything here dopamine! Why are you suggesting this?

I have said nothing at all if I have not been consistent in my presentation of the fact that several members of this forum have only generated complaints for this community to process as data. This is a fact. Now, if you recognize this as a fact, then, further, you must then accordingly awknowlege that these complaints have taken intellectual attention of the members here.

I will paste here what I recently sent to elrond:

I was the first one to say Rizzer has his own set of problems. To be honest with you, he does me a favor by letting me test his powders for store credit. Surely he is not a perfect business man. I never said he was. In my posts, if you read them closely, they have a general theme; that I believe takes into consideration both the fact that Rizzer is imperfect, but also that it is a recognized fact that some customers will cause more hassle than others. And I take this forum personally. So when somebody, anybody, opens their mouth, I am listening carefully. I do hope you know this. But one thing I strongly dislike in this world are people who only open their mouth to complain and have nothing else to say. Imagine a world in which this was the standard: everybody just complaining. While I strongly believe in stating factual accounts of a faulty service, I generally appreciate these sorts of comments to be generated by the same individuals whom have (some) positive (or even nuetral) things to say. In my opinion, setting this type of standard raises the bar for our community. If you haven't noticed, this forum (until recently, and I like this) has embarked on a rampant complaining string about various services.  People are registering here just to complain!  I am merely trying to raise the awareness of the members of our community to this issuel and its apparent ill set of implications.


So, please, let us stop going in circles...please!

#68 dopamine

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 06:42 PM

If some new member joins this forum and there first post is a complaint about a nootropics company, I don't quite see any logical reason to dismiss it out of hand simply because they have just joined the community. I think that we may differ on how we want to treat those just joining this discussion group, i.e. whether to be immediately suspicous and hostile to their initial comments or to consider their experiences they bring in a civil manner.

Secondly, this particular thread is labeled "Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story" so consistent with this name people should post their experiences. The theme of this particular topic is bad experiences, or complaints about SMI2LE. You or I may not like that it exists, but obviously people feel they need there bad story heard and that's why discussion boards like this exist. If someone were posting these kinds of things in a completely unrelated thread, I would tell them to take it elsewhere. However, if a thread is created specifically for the purpose of exchanging bad experiences with a particular company, it is up to the moderators of the forum as to whether or not it should exist :)

#69 nootropi

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 06:49 PM

Dopamine? Have you found yourself repeating yourself in this thread? How many times now?

#70 dopamine

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 07:01 PM

Dopamine? Have you found yourself repeating yourself in this thread? How many times now?


If my points had been acurately addressed without being dismissed I don't think repetition would have been necessary. Unfortunately some people need things said more than once in order to properly understand. I personally think you should apologize to magr for being extremely rude and dismissive of his comments. Furthermore, I certainly hope people do not see your comments as an accurate reflection of this forum.

#71 nootropi

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 10:12 PM

I have to respectfully disagree with you, dopamine.

I am not sorry about what I said. I mean it.

Your comments have been addressed (several times).

I like you, dopamine, personally, and I think you are very smart.

However, you also act rude. Your role of policeman and arbitrator here is unwarranted. First, let's take a look at your contributions here. What have you brought here to the discussion? You have made 14 posts, about half of them involving arbitrating this matter, and now you are all of the sudden able to say that my comments should not be an accurate refection of this forum? You need to raise your awareness by a few more notches, dopamine. While you may know how to search medline, I am afraid that you lack common business sense; free trade is based on the principle that the customer has the freedom to purchase products from wherever they please.

I think everybody here would agree that it is far better to resume to discuss the topics in this forum which pertain to "Nootropics & Brain Enhancers." I think this forum has had enough of this kind of customer/client relations spewing crap. Thank you very much.

Edited by nootropi, 21 November 2004 - 10:38 PM.


#72 dopamine

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 12:44 AM

However, you also act rude. Your role of policeman and arbitrator here is unwarranted. First, let's take a look at your contributions here. What have you brought here to the discussion? You have made 14 posts, about half of them involving arbitrating this matter, and now you are all of the sudden able to say that my comments should not be an accurate refection of this forum?


Firstly, I said that I hope people who read this forum do not take your comments as a reflection of this community. That is based on the differing opinion I stated in my prior post, i.e. on how, ideally, we should treat those new members who come to this forum and attempt to discuss issues relating to the topic. It is very evident that we disagree on this issue, and that is why I say I would personally like to see the forum go in a more open and welcoming direction rather than the contrary. I never insinuated that I am the perfect model for a contributor to this forum, but rather I expressed my opinion as to what I think constitutes appropriate discussion.

You need to raise your awareness by a few more notches, dopamine. While you may know how to search medline, I am afraid that you lack common business sense; free trade is based on the principle that the customer has the freedom to purchase products from wherever they please.


It is also a basic tenet of contemporary notions of the consumer marketplace that those considering buying a specific product ought to have information available to them about companies offering that good or service in order for them to make a well-informed decision. Therefore, if someone shares an experience, it is to be encouraged and not dismissed, because that person is contributing to the knowledge of the body public in general.

If you are in favor of freedom of speech - that means you’re in favor of freedom of speech for views you absolutely despise - otherwise you’re not in favor of freedom of speech.

I think everybody here would agree that it is far better to resume to discuss the topics in this forum which pertain to "Nootropics & Brain Enhancers." I think this forum has had enough of this kind of customer/client relations spewing crap. Thank you very much.


Yes, I agree. But I think this community is capable of carrying on discussions in more than one thread at a time.

Furthermore, this isn't the first time we have argued about this type of problem, i.e. communication between members. Back at Avant Labs, you began responding to people who were skeptical of the claims of nootropics in a hostile and bitter tone. In that community people spoke up because they thought it was completely unwarranted and eventually you admitted that your comments were unnecessary. Now we have what has happened in this forum: you have responded to someone who criticized your favorite nootropics supplier in a hostile and bitter tone. Again, people in this forum started speaking up because they thought it was completely unwarranted. These two instances have one thing in common: someone questioning what you hold to be true. When someone questions your pre-conceived notions, your amygdala flares up and the rage hits against the keyboard. But what you have to understand is that when people say things you disagree with, there are two ways you can deal with it: be civil and debate without involving a complex of emotions, or be uncivil and yell as hard as you can at anyone who disagrees with you. I assume that the members of this forum do not tolerate the latter and that has manifested itself as people speaking out against what you had said.

My purpose for responding to this type of behavior is that I see it go on in too many places and no one saying anything about it. I am glad and proud that this forum and Avant Labs has members that will not tolerate other members being harassed and dismissed - this is a virtue which many other communities lack (both online and off).

#73 nootropi

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:23 AM

Look: if you have some personal issues with me or what I say, that's fine. Just please contain your feelings or use the personal message system. Nobody wants to read you spew.

Once again; while you may be reasonably proficient in understanding medline data, I must say repectfully that your knowledge is apparently limited in several other areas. I wish you would just stick to what you are good at and please leave your feelings for me out of it. Several of your comments indeed are personal and are not categorized as fitting into either:

Nootropics & Brain Enhancers or Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story.


Let's get back to the topic; please. Stop this boring, unnecessary digression. I am not about to read your essay above about how you feel about me. I came here to talk about nootropics, okay, not discuss my or your shortcomings. Once again, dopamine, if you really feel empassioned about discussing such issues, please use the personal message system. Nobody wants to read essays (or write them for that matter) about how you feel about me or what I may or may not have said at one point in my life on some acme message board.

Be well.

#74 Mike M

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 06:18 PM

I'll ask again. Does anyone have proof the DEA did anything to this guy? I would assume there would be public record info if they actually did anything to him. Did the information about the DEA thing come straight from him or did someone have proof?

#75 dopamine

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 08:36 PM

I've never seen any proof of the incident occuring. If someone has his address they could look up in newspaper databases for his city the day after the raid happened. If the media didn't report on it, you'd have to get it from either the DEA's field office or from the district attorney's office (since that's where the media gets the information to report on).

It also really depends what state he is in. Like in Wisconsin, they have public court records online, availible to anyone (complete with full names of defendents, and charges brought against them).

I can do some digging around if someone wants to post where his business is located.

#76 scottl

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 08:54 PM

In once sense I'm not sure it matters (aside from what it says about his character). Either:

A. He develops good customer service habits in which case he will do well

C He continues on the present path, in which case he will vanish sooner or later

or the in between B is which case you can flip a coin as to if he'll be around in 6 months.

Please don't misunderstand, I had one brief postitive e-mail interaction with him ages ago and wish him well. For me however money is cheaper then aggrivation and I'm not willing to order from him presently.

#77 eternaltraveler

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 10:22 PM

this may be a stupid question, but how are we supposted to call him when his number is no where on his website?

#78 scottl

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 12:08 AM

Click on mission objectives:

You can call me if you have any additional questions -- 856-652-9118

SMI2LE
2087 S. Shore Road #137
Ocean View, NJ 08230
U.S.A.

I think Nootropi has a toll free number for him (or I've seen one on Avant).

#79 mercurygirl

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 01:18 AM

This is from the main http://www.smi2le.biz/ page:

877-311-4442 if you would like to place an order or briefly chat. If you have lengthy questions or have free long distance please call us at 856-652-9118 so we don't have to pay for the call.

#80 nootropi

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 02:41 AM

I'll ask again.  Does anyone have proof the DEA did anything to this guy?  I would assume there would be public record info if they actually did anything to him.  Did the information about the DEA thing come straight from him or did someone have proof?


Thanks for asking, but to be 100% honest with you, Mr. McClandless, I do not think this issue is worth discussing. Why? Because I do not think such a discussion is going to advance our understanding of nootropics or their functionality nor ensure our safety from chemical contaminants in Chinese powders.

All I know is that I have spoken personally with Rizzer about sending in samples of all of his Chinese powders to subject them to HPLC assays in exchange for store credit. I have already selected one other member to submit a sample, I am looking for several more trustworthy members of this forum whom I would trust to send in a sample to the lab. So far, I have ejdavis1; I also would like lynx to submit a sample. And that is all I have so far. Other members I am thinking of asking are thefirstimmortal and dopamine. Although it may seem that I do not respect dopamine's opinions, he is a trustworthy person in my opinion and even though we disagree on several issues, I believe I can trust him to submit a sample. From his earlier posings, he appears to state he does not want to speak with anybody on the phone. However, that is one of the condtions that I need fulfilled by a member submitting a sample of Rizzer's product. I need these members to have personal relations with Rizzer as well. It is only out of respect for Rizzer to ensure the integrity of the members submitting samples of his products.

#81 scottl

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 02:52 AM

Thanks for asking, but to be 100% honest with you, Mr. McClandless, I do not think this issue is worth discussing.


Nootropi,

I'm sure this will result in another interesting outburst, but as far as I know you are not a moderator and what gives you the right to limit discussion in a thread titled:

"Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story, This this is getting the best of me"

and hijhack it with a topic of your own choosing? If you don't like the topic being discussed, don't participate.

#82 nootropi

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 03:08 AM



Thanks for asking, but to be 100% honest with you, Mr. McClandless, I do not think this issue is worth discussing.


Nootropi,

I'm sure this will result in another interesting outburst, but as far as I know you are not a moderator and what gives you the right to limit discussion in a thread titled:

"Another SMI2LE.BIZ horror story, This this is getting the best of me"

and hijhack it with a topic of your own choosing? If you don't like the topic being discussed, don't participate.


Scott, what are you talking about?

#83 unipolar_mania

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 03:15 AM

Mr. McClandless can we assay your powders?

#84 coolio

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 04:27 AM

I placed an order with smi2le last weekend and then discovered this forum afterwards. Had I known about the problems people have been having I would have called him to place the order instead of doing it online. His merchant account wasn't suspended as of 11/18 because that's when my card got charged. I still haven't received any confirmation of the order nor any responses to the 2 emails I sent him. : (

As far as people wondering why the DEA raided him in the first place, perhaps Senate bill S. 2195 might be the reason.

http://thomas.loc.go...08:SN02195:@@@X

The bill was placed before the Senate on 10/6/04, and it specifically listed both methyldienolone and m4ohn as being placed in Schedule III classification as of 90 days of the passing of the bill. So while the products he was/is selling are still quasi-legal as of today, the DEA was probably acting proactively to gather information on his company and verify that he was in possession of the chemicals as of that date. I think this is appalling, but this is the way law enforcement acts in the US. If as soon as the 90 day window of opportunity closes, he's still offering these 2 prohormones for sale, they'll probably arrest him immediately and already have a lot of evidence on file.

I'm not saying I have evidence that this has anything to do with the DEA raiding him, but the timing is conspicuous.

#85 eternaltraveler

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 06:38 AM

Thanks, the only link I didn't click on :-)

Click on mission objectives:

You can call me if you have any additional questions -- 856-652-9118

SMI2LE
2087 S. Shore Road #137
Ocean View, NJ 08230
U.S.A.

I think Nootropi has a toll free number for him (or I've seen one on Avant).



#86 eternaltraveler

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 06:50 AM

Thanks for asking, but to be 100% honest with you, Mr. McClandless, I do not think this issue is worth discussing.  Why?  Because I do not think such a discussion is going to advance our understanding of nootropics or their functionality nor ensure our safety from chemical contaminants in Chinese powders.


You don't think it is worth discussing as too whether or not one of our prime suppliers of nootropics has perpetuated a large hoax against all of us?

Also it seems to me that your study looses some of it's credibility if Rizzer knows who is going to be testing his substances before he sends them out to those respective people. Just something to take into consideration.

#87 nootropi

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:40 AM

Thanks for asking, but to be 100% honest with you, Mr. McClandless, I do not think this issue is worth discussing.  Why?  Because I do not think such a discussion is going to advance our understanding of nootropics or their functionality nor ensure our safety from chemical contaminants in Chinese powders.


You don't think it is worth discussing as too whether or not one of our prime suppliers of nootropics has perpetuated a large hoax against all of us?

Also it seems to me that your study looses some of it's credibility if Rizzer knows who is going to be testing his substances before he sends them out to those respective people. Just something to take into consideration.


No, I do not think it is worth it to discuss this issue. I have already said that I don't want to be a customer service representative in this forum. Maybe I should have added to that same disclaimer that I also don't want to do any detective work here either. You may choose to do so. To be honest with you, I really do not care. Even if he did make it up, as long as he lets me assay his powders for store credit, I would still be a happy camper.

Regarding your second concern, I plan on having these members submitting samples of products that they have already purchased. In the case that a member does not have a personal supply of a nootropic, then another member can send him or her a 5 grams sample (which is enough to perform the assay).

#88 jokerace

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 01:18 PM

Regarding your second concern, I plan on having these members submitting samples of products that they have already purchased.  In the case that a member does not have a personal supply of a nootropic, then another member can send him or her a 5 grams sample (which is enough to perform the assay).


Where is the chain of custody in this process?

#89 geigertube

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 01:54 PM

No, I do not think it is worth it to discuss this issue.  I have already said that I don't want to be a customer service representative in this forum.  Maybe I should have added to that same disclaimer that I also don't want to do any detective work here either. .



Then don't reply. Problem solved.

Steven

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#90 Mike M

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 02:25 PM

Chain of custody is something nootropi doesn't understand. I've tried to explain it to him 100x.

I ask the DEA question simply because that is the sole reason people are told his business is backed up and not shipping. Anything I do is asked to be backed up with triple lawyer certification, yet this guy claims (or someone did) that he got raided by the DEA and everyone believes him. The odds the DEA would raid him seem very far fetched. I've had the DEA on site at my place before. I know what it is like to deal with them. I was just curious if anyone had any proof or if everyone believed him just "because".


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