11 replies to this topic

[J. Galt]

Has anyone tried lithium orotate with Adderall/Dexedrine? If so, what were the effects?

Did the lithium dampen or nullify the effectiveness of your amphetamine dose, smooth it out, or synergize in some beneficial way?

Investigating Lithium Orotate as a possible neuroprotective against amphetamine excitotoxicity and would appreciate feedback from anyone who has tried this combination.

[Delta Gamma]

http://www.springerl...664kv787l642lr/ less euphoria, same psycosis
http://www.drugs.com...645-1477-0.html Probably dampens stimulatory effects
http://ajp.psychiatr...tract/131/7/820 Abstract only, but it looks like they pretty much oppose each other completely

2 minutes on google scholar searching "amphetamine and lithium interactions".

[niteinnyc]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n2664kv787l642lr/ less euphoria, same psycosis
http://www.drugs.com...645-1477-0.html Probably dampens stimulatory effects
http://ajp.psychiatr...tract/131/7/820 Abstract only, but it looks like they pretty much oppose each other completely

2 minutes on google scholar searching "amphetamine and lithium interactions".

I believe he was asking for some anecdotal experiences, not secretarial services.

[J. Galt]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n2664kv787l642lr/ less euphoria, same psycosis
http://www.drugs.com...645-1477-0.html Probably dampens stimulatory effects
http://ajp.psychiatr...tract/131/7/820 Abstract only, but it looks like they pretty much oppose each other completely

2 minutes on google scholar searching "amphetamine and lithium interactions".

I appreciate the references, but I too found those on PubMed. The problem is that they used lithium carbonate at therapeutic levels used to treat bipolar patients - so probably in the 450mg-1200mg/day range - which I don't think is even in the same ballpark as taking 5mg supplemental lithium orotate or aspartate. A slingshot and a bazooka, at their most basic levels, both perform basically the same function - just on very magnitudes. This doesn't mean that one should expect a handheld slingshot to pack the same punch as a bazooka, or vice-versa.

As I understand lithium, lower doses tend to have a mildly sedative effect, while higher doses can be much more stimulatory. So if high and low doses have opposite effects, would a low dose of Li Orotate have an opposite effect to that of the higher dose Li Carbonate/d-amp combo in the studies Delta Gamma linked above? Or is the spectrum of Lithium's sedative/stimulatory modalities self-contained, (that is to say) independent of its interaction with other drugs?

I can't find many published studies on lithium orotate, and none directly relevant to my specific question. I know a fair amount amount about amphetamines but very little about lithium, so I'm kind of groping around in the dark here at a theoretical loss as to what interaction the low-dose Lithium Orotate/30mg Adderall XR combo would have.

From what I know of Li Orotate's neuroprotective/neuroregenerative effects, it seems to cover similar grounds as Memantine on the NMDA-antagonism front, but also provides a host of other cognitive and life extension benefits. Given that Memantine, a powerful NMDA antagonist, induces pretty nasty brain fog (which lasted almost a month for me, despite a strict dosing/titration schedule) and IMO seemed to blunt the effects of d-amp, it seems reasonable to infer that Li Orotate - also an apparently strong NMDA antagonist - could be a potentially viable alternative to Memantine, at least as a poor man's substitute, and possibly even a superior alternative in some respects.

Is that hypothesis reasonable enough to warrant testing? And by testing, I mean on myself. What do you guys think? Does anyone know of any potential danger with this combo? I'm fairly confident that they are perfectly safe, but as I said I'm a Lithium virgin and any advice or anecdotal accounts on the substance would be appreciated.

I'm very curious about this combo and am probably going to pick up some Li Orotate at the natural pharmacy tomorrow to test it out with my XR and Dex in the evening. Will post my result later in the week after.


Now back to midterm prep. Grrrhhhhhhhh....
Nootropics are far more interesting than school, which feels ironic somehow....

Edited by J. Galt, 07 March 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[J. Galt]

So I found this thread, which was enlightening, but still doesn't address the lithium/d-amp combo.
\lithium orotate and curcumin some brain reconstruction?

Edited by J. Galt, 07 March 2011 - 11:07 AM.

[niteinnyc]

My experience with Lithium Orotate in dosages of about 2.5 mg has been either nothing at all to perhaps at best a barely perceptible sedative effect. I have had past experience with Aderall and Dex, but that was prior to my Lithium supplementation. If there is any perceptible effect from lithium at all, my guess is that it would be completely overwhelmed by the considerably more powerful stimulatory effects of Add/Dex.

[J. Galt]

That's disappointing to hear, but thanks for sharing your experience niteinnyc.

[Delta Gamma]

I appreciate the references, but I too found those on PubMed. The problem is that they used lithium carbonate at therapeutic levels used to treat bipolar patients - so probably in the 450mg-1200mg/day range - which I don't think is even in the same ballpark as taking 5mg supplemental lithium orotate or aspartate. A slingshot and a bazooka, at their most basic levels, both perform basically the same function - just on very magnitudes. This doesn't mean that one should expect a handheld slingshot to pack the same punch as a bazooka, or vice-versa.

As I understand lithium, lower doses tend to have a mildly sedative effect, while higher doses can be much more stimulatory. So if high and low doses have opposite effects, would a low dose of Li Orotate have an opposite effect to that of the higher dose Li Carbonate/d-amp combo in the studies Delta Gamma linked above? Or is the spectrum of Lithium's sedative/stimulatory modalities self-contained, (that is to say) independent of its interaction with other drugs?

I can't find many published studies on lithium orotate, and none directly relevant to my specific question. I know a fair amount amount about amphetamines but very little about lithium, so I'm kind of groping around in the dark here at a theoretical loss as to what interaction the low-dose Lithium Orotate/30mg Adderall XR combo would have.

From what I know of Li Orotate's neuroprotective/neuroregenerative effects, it seems to cover similar grounds as Memantine on the NMDA-antagonism front, but also provides a host of other cognitive and life extension benefits. Given that Memantine, a powerful NMDA antagonist, induces pretty nasty brain fog (which lasted almost a month for me, despite a strict dosing/titration schedule) and IMO seemed to blunt the effects of d-amp, it seems reasonable to infer that Li Orotate - also an apparently strong NMDA antagonist - could be a potentially viable alternative to Memantine, at least as a poor man's substitute, and possibly even a superior alternative in some respects.

Is that hypothesis reasonable enough to warrant testing? And by testing, I mean on myself. What do you guys think? Does anyone know of any potential danger with this combo? I'm fairly confident that they are perfectly safe, but as I said I'm a Lithium virgin and any advice or anecdotal accounts on the substance would be appreciated.

I'm very curious about this combo and am probably going to pick up some Li Orotate at the natural pharmacy tomorrow to test it out with my XR and Dex in the evening. Will post my result later in the week after.


Now back to midterm prep. Grrrhhhhhhhh....
Nootropics are far more interesting than school, which feels ironic somehow....

Sorry about that, thought you were talking about the higher doses there.

As far as low dose lithium goes, I couldn't find any sort of definitive sources, but given what high doses do I would expect it to maybe take the edge off amphetamine. But, lithium has some bizarre dose dependent pharmacology.

I'll see if I can find anything on my university's journal access sites.

Edit: I'm with you on the nootropics being more interesting than school part x/

Edited by Delta Gamma, 07 March 2011 - 05:50 PM.

[ultranaut]

I've started testing Lithium Orotate and I take dexedrine regularly. I've not taken both at the same time, but 5mg after a tense day on dexedrine does seem to really help with relaxation. I wouldn't say it's overwhelming, but thus far it's been noticeably better than magnesium or theanine at combating anxiety and making me feel chilled out. I've been taking it irregularly because I'm wary still, but I've gone as long as several days in a row at 5mg a few hours before bed without any noticeable negative effects. It could of course be placebo or some other factor, but I do feel like my mood is better the following day after taking it. I don't know if I'll buy more yet but I definitely intend to use the rest of my current supply.

[InquilineKea]

Doesn't lithium inhibit norepinephrine WITHOUT affecting dopamine? If so, that just makes adderall/ritalin more selective for dopamine. Does the norepinephrine really explain much of the effect of adderall/ritalin? because as far as i can understand it, the amphetamines mediate their action primarily through dopamine (i've tried norepinephrine selective drugs like bupropion before, and they don't do shit by themselves)

[Thorsten3]

Not sure about Lithium being a NMDA antagonist in the same ball park as Memantine.

If that was the case you would hear of potentially psychotic side effects from users. AFAIK Lithium has been shown to be beneficial for schizo disorders.

[NMDAstronaut]

I like Li orotate. If taken daily it seems less effective for me. I can take it about 4 days a week with sustained benefit. I take 120mg 4-5 per day with vinpocetine (4 days per week) as part of my rotating regimen. I actually obtained my medical degree overseas and learned first about Li O in Europe before much of the buzz had come to the US. I do think that caution is still necessary as long term effects remain to be seen.

Edited by NMDAstronaut, 22 February 2013 - 03:10 AM.