22 replies to this topic

[Ichoose2live]

Spinach contain high amounts of Ecdysteroid.

Phytoecdysteroids and anabolic-androgenic steroids--structure and effects on humans.

Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids are structural analogs of the insect molting hormone ecdysone. Plants comprise rich sources of ecdysteroids in high concentration and with broad structural diversity. Ecdysteroids have a number of proven beneficial effects on mammals but the hormonal effects of ecdysteroids have been proven only in arthropods. Their structures are somewhat similar to those of the vertebrate steroid hormones but there are several structural differences between the two steroid groups. Despite of these essential structural differences, ecdysteroids exert numerous effects in vertebrates that are similar to those of vertebrate hormonal steroids, and they may serve as effective anabolic, hepatoprotective, immunoprotective, antioxidant and hypoglycemic agents. Ecdysteroids do not bind to the cytosolic steroid receptors, instead, they are likely to influence signal transduction pathways, like the anabolic steroids, possibly via membrane bound receptors. The application of phytoecdysteroids is a promising alternative to the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids because of the apparent lack of adverse effects. The prospective use of phytoecdysteroids may extend to treatments of pathological conditions where anabolic steroids are routinely applied. One of the most cited aspects of phytoecdysteroid application (on the Internet) is the increase of muscle size. However in this field too stringent research is needed as an adequate cytological explanation is not yet available for the anabolic. This paper reports on the most important structural differences between androgenic hormones, their synthetic analogs and ecdysteroids. The anabolic/hormonal effects and the possible mechanisms of action of these compounds are also discussed as concerns the skeletal muscle.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18220764

Phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.

Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally similar or identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. To study the mechanism of action of phytoecdysteroids in mammalian tissue, an in vitro cellular assay of protein synthesis was developed. In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

Ecdysteroids elicit a rapid Ca2+ flux leading to Akt activation and increased protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.

Gorelick-Feldman J, Cohick W, Raskin I.

Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901, USA.
Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids, structurally similar to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis. In this study we show that in a mouse skeletal muscle cell line, C(2)C(12), 20-hydroxyecdysone (20HE), a common phytoecdysteroid in both insects and plants, elicited a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis. The effect was inhibited by a G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) inhibitor, a phospholipase C (PLC) inhibitor, and a phosphoinositide kinase-3 (PI3K) inhibitor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20363237

Edited by Ichoose2live, 07 March 2011 - 07:22 AM.

[Quanzhou]

Spinach contain high amounts of Ecdysteroid.

Phytoecdysteroids and anabolic-androgenic steroids--structure and effects on humans.

Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids are structural analogs of the insect molting hormone ecdysone. Plants comprise rich sources of ecdysteroids in high concentration and with broad structural diversity. Ecdysteroids have a number of proven beneficial effects on mammals but the hormonal effects of ecdysteroids have been proven only in arthropods. Their structures are somewhat similar to those of the vertebrate steroid hormones but there are several structural differences between the two steroid groups. Despite of these essential structural differences, ecdysteroids exert numerous effects in vertebrates that are similar to those of vertebrate hormonal steroids, and they may serve as effective anabolic, hepatoprotective, immunoprotective, antioxidant and hypoglycemic agents. Ecdysteroids do not bind to the cytosolic steroid receptors, instead, they are likely to influence signal transduction pathways, like the anabolic steroids, possibly via membrane bound receptors. The application of phytoecdysteroids is a promising alternative to the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids because of the apparent lack of adverse effects. The prospective use of phytoecdysteroids may extend to treatments of pathological conditions where anabolic steroids are routinely applied. One of the most cited aspects of phytoecdysteroid application (on the Internet) is the increase of muscle size. However in this field too stringent research is needed as an adequate cytological explanation is not yet available for the anabolic. This paper reports on the most important structural differences between androgenic hormones, their synthetic analogs and ecdysteroids. The anabolic/hormonal effects and the possible mechanisms of action of these compounds are also discussed as concerns the skeletal muscle.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18220764

Phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.

Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally similar or identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. To study the mechanism of action of phytoecdysteroids in mammalian tissue, an in vitro cellular assay of protein synthesis was developed. In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

Ecdysteroids elicit a rapid Ca2+ flux leading to Akt activation and increased protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.

Gorelick-Feldman J, Cohick W, Raskin I.

Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901, USA.
Abstract

Phytoecdysteroids, structurally similar to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis. In this study we show that in a mouse skeletal muscle cell line, C(2)C(12), 20-hydroxyecdysone (20HE), a common phytoecdysteroid in both insects and plants, elicited a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis. The effect was inhibited by a G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) inhibitor, a phospholipase C (PLC) inhibitor, and a phosphoinositide kinase-3 (PI3K) inhibitor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20363237

popeye was right...

[niner]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

That's a scary amount of oxalate. This sounds like a job for an oxalate-free spinach extract.

[Skötkonung]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

That's a scary amount of oxalate. This sounds like a job for an oxalate-free spinach extract.

Interesting.. I can eat a pound of spinach easily in a sitting. Yumm! But 2lbs would be pushing it. Too much fiber...

[sapentia]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

That's a scary amount of oxalate. This sounds like a job for an oxalate-free spinach extract.

After seeing this thread I did some reading to become more aware of these compounds which are purported to be non-hormonal anabolic agents with positive health benefits that can supposedly be taken indefinitely. It really does sound too good to be true, but this is an area where the bodybuilding industry is far ahead of everyone else. Some of these guys swear by this stuff. Ecdysterones have been used in bodybuilding supplements for years with increasing purity. In fact, a new product with a >99% purity is getting ready to come out.

I would interested on your guys thoughts considering you have a very different perspective than the average bodybuilder. It had occurred to me this could be a supplement given to the elderly to encourage retaining muscle mass while preventing adipose accumulation. This would be in light of the fact that it supposedly has cardioprotective properties, is anti-diabetic, and has immune system enhancing effects while not having any toxicity issues. Again, sounds too good to be true which is why I brought it up here for discussion. The reason I am bringing up the elderly aspect is that I oversee my parents (65 and 64) supplemental regime and am always looking for safe supplements that counteract the effects of aging.

Below is a copy paste of a copy paste from StakedCop on the Anabolic Minds forum:
My link

EcdyMorph - 99% 20hydroxyecdysone in Crystalline Form
For those who didn't follow along in the Ecdysterone thread all I did was copy and paste.

Enjoy and long live Ecdy!


Ingredient Source

EcdyMorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone) is extracted from the herbaceous perennial plant Rhaponticum Carthamoides. The same plant source used in human and animal studies . Most ecdysterone products sold in the market today use an extract derived from Cyanotis Vaga. This is a much cheaper extract and is usually only standardized to 40-70% 20-Hydroxecdysone.

Extraction Method

EcdyMorph is produced using an extensive series of procedures to reach a purity of 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone. The final step in the process is super critical CO² extraction. This process creates material in a crystalline form. This formation of crystals differentiates EcdyMorph from other ecdysterone extracts. The difference can be seen using X-ray crystallography. This may explain why a 20-hydroxyecdysone extract with puritiy greater than 99% can be considerbly more effective than a slightly less pure extract.

Ecdymorph Dosing

There is controversy as to how much ecdysterone someone must consume to obtain desired results. The debate has risen due to the various extracts that have been used in the many different ecdysterone containing products. The quality of the ecdysterone extract greatly influences effectiveness. We have found that a 20 mg dose off a 99% 20hydroxyecdysone in crystalline form is effective and should be taken two to threes times a day. Ecdysterone has a relatively short half life, so frequent dosing is necessary. Many companies using a cheaper, lesser pure extracts suggest consumers to take much higher amounts to receive benefits. We are convinced that 20 mg of EcdyMorph is more beneficial than several hundred milligrams of a Cyanotis Vaga ecdysterone extract.

The Science and Clinical Studies

Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. They also have been reported to have effects in lowering of cholesterol, and management of healthy blood glucose levels.

There have not been numerous human studies done on ecdysterone . More importantly, very few studies have been conducted using a 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone extract. There is a particular study done with athletes published in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. It was titled: “Effects of Methoxyisoflavone, Ecdysterone, and Sulfo-Polysaccharide Supplementation on Training Adaptations in Resistance-Trained Males”. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2129166/ This was a very disappointing study. This study was most likely designed to discredit the effectiveness of ecdysterone as a nutritional supplement. They used a cheap ecdysterone extract and had the athletes take one single dose daily. The study was designed to fail and was most likely funded by a company that didn't have ecdysterone in their product line. At the time of the study there were a couple good ecdysterone products available that contained a 97% 20-hydroxyecdysone. These product were effective at dose ranging from 10-20 mg.

There have been two recent studies with a 99% 20-Hydroxyecdysone on mice suggesting its ability to increase muscle protein synthesis, reducing body fat, and produce an anti-diabetic effect. The studies are very interesting and can be found on the internet. The studies are listed below.

20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat. Phytomedicine: International Journal of Phytotherapy & Phytopharmacology; September 1, 2008, Volume: 15 Issue: 9 Page: 691(8)
20-Hydroxyecdysone decreases weight and hyperglycemia in a diet-induced obesity mice model. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 296:433-439, 2009.

The results of these studies were very impressive. We realize that consumers are not Rodentia, but the findings support anecdotal evidence collected throughout the years from consumers who used products containing Ecdymorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone).

The most interesting study with ecdysteroids done to date was published in 2008. Phytoecdysteroids Increase Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle Cells. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 3532–3537. This study not only measured an increase in protein synthesis, but also suggested how ecdysteroids work. The conclusion of the study: "In mammals, which seem to lack homologous receptors, the molecular mechanisms of ecdysteroid action are still unknown. Although our findings suggest that ecdysteroids may be mediated by a pathway that converges on the PI3K pathway, rather than on the androgen receptor pathway, more study is needed to confirm this hypothesis".

Other notable studies:

* Chermnykh, N.S., et.al. (1988). The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles. Farmakol. Tok. (USSR). 51, 57-60

* Simakin, S. Yu., et al., (1988). The Combined Use of Ecdisten and the Product 'Bodrost' during Training in Cyclical Types of Sport. Scientific Sports Bulletin, No. 2

[sapentia]

Quinoa study

Quinoa's bursting with ecdysteroids

If you eat 50 g quinoa from a health food shop you'll probably ingest 15-20 mg 20-hydroxyecdysone. That's more than the recommended daily dose that some ecdysteroid supplements contain. French chemists analysed samples of quinoa and found they contained high amounts of ecdysteroids.

Retailers call quinoa the 'grain of the Incas'. It's not related to more familiar grains, but for centuries people in South America have been eating Chenopodium quinoa seeds like other parts of the world eat wheat. When the Spanish conquistadores hit the Andes they labelled quinoa 'worthless food', but now it looks like quinoa is making a comeback. This is because quinoa is a) gluten free, b) has a low glycaemic index and c) contains high amounts of protein which, compared with wheat – is of high quality.

A less known fact is that quinoa contains lots of ecdysteroids. In 2001 researchers at Rutgers University found that 1 gram of quinoa contains 30 micrograms 20-hydroxyecdysone, and 3-9 micrograms makisterone A, 24-epi-makisterone A, 24(28)-dehydro-makisterone A and 20,26-dihydroxyecdysone. [J Agric Food Chem. 2001 May; 49(5): 2576-8.]




The French researchers analysed the amount of 13 ecdysteroids in quinoa. Their results showed that the classic 20-hydroxyecdysone was by far the most important ecdysteroid in quinoa. The researchers know for sure that they haven't measured all the ecdysteroids, so the table below actually underestimates the amount of ecdysteroids that quinoa contains.


20-Hydroxyecdysone 158.4 microgram/gram


Makisterone A 4.8 microgram/gram


24-Epi-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram


24(28)-Dehydro-makisterone A 4.4 microgram/gram


Polypodine B 3.4 microgram/gram


Makisterone C 1.2 microgram/gram


2-Deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram


2-Deoxy-20,26-dihydroxyecdysone 0.8 microgram/gram


5-Hydroxy-24(28)-dehydromakisterone A 0.3 microgram/gram


Dacrysterone 0.13 microgram/gram


24,25-Dehydroinokosterone 0.13 microgram/gram


3-Epi-2-deoxy-20-hydroxyecdysone 0.05 microgram/gram


25,27-Dehydroinokosterone 0.05 microgram/gram


The researchers analysed different batches of quinoa and quinoa products. The most interesting product was Zieglers Toasted Bran.

After extrapolating to humans the results of animal studies, in which ecdysteroids have positive effects on the skin, bone and muscle mass and break down fat, and going by the quantities of ecdysteroids found in quinoa analyses, the researchers suggest that people who eat quinoa regularly will be healthier as a result.

Source:
Food Chemistry 125 (2011) 1226–1234.

[The Immortalist]

How much spinach do you need to eat for it to have any effect?

[platypus]

I would interested on your guys thoughts considering you have a very different perspective than the average bodybuilder. It had occurred to me this could be a supplement given to the elderly to encourage retaining muscle mass while preventing adipose accumulation.

Why cannot the elderly just be put on bioidentical human hormones instead of substitutes?

[Ambidestrian]

By my calculation, a 70-kg person would have to consume 2.5kg of quinoa to ingest 5mg/kg 20-hydroxy ecdysone, a dose that wikipedia mentions as the lowest effective human dose for anabolic effects. That's a lot of quinoa. The stuff is pretty filling.

[sapentia]

By my calculation, a 70-kg person would have to consume 2.5kg of quinoa to ingest 5mg/kg 20-hydroxy ecdysone, a dose that wikipedia mentions as the lowest effective human dose for anabolic effects. That's a lot of quinoa. The stuff is pretty filling.

Actually, just like resveratrol there are extracts with up to 99% purity so it isn't difficult to achieve these levels through supplementation. We do it with a variety of others phytochemicals discussed on this forum.

[icyT]

Besides these things, the low calories and high fiber and vitamins makes this a prime vegetable. I think we should consume copious amounts of it.

[yoyo]

Besides these things, the low calories and high fiber and vitamins makes this a prime vegetable. I think we should consume copious amounts of it.

true. its a real shame it taste like yard clippings, unlike mustard greens or cilanatro or something.

[JChief]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18444661 In the full-text study they say '' an equivalent of 1kg/day of Spinach ''

That's a scary amount of oxalate. This sounds like a job for an oxalate-free spinach extract.

After seeing this thread I did some reading to become more aware of these compounds which are purported to be non-hormonal anabolic agents with positive health benefits that can supposedly be taken indefinitely. It really does sound too good to be true, but this is an area where the bodybuilding industry is far ahead of everyone else. Some of these guys swear by this stuff. Ecdysterones have been used in bodybuilding supplements for years with increasing purity. In fact, a new product with a >99% purity is getting ready to come out.

I would interested on your guys thoughts considering you have a very different perspective than the average bodybuilder. It had occurred to me this could be a supplement given to the elderly to encourage retaining muscle mass while preventing adipose accumulation. This would be in light of the fact that it supposedly has cardioprotective properties, is anti-diabetic, and has immune system enhancing effects while not having any toxicity issues. Again, sounds too good to be true which is why I brought it up here for discussion. The reason I am bringing up the elderly aspect is that I oversee my parents (65 and 64) supplemental regime and am always looking for safe supplements that counteract the effects of aging.

Below is a copy paste of a copy paste from StakedCop on the Anabolic Minds forum:
My link

EcdyMorph - 99% 20hydroxyecdysone in Crystalline Form
For those who didn't follow along in the Ecdysterone thread all I did was copy and paste.

Enjoy and long live Ecdy!


Ingredient Source

EcdyMorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone) is extracted from the herbaceous perennial plant Rhaponticum Carthamoides. The same plant source used in human and animal studies . Most ecdysterone products sold in the market today use an extract derived from Cyanotis Vaga. This is a much cheaper extract and is usually only standardized to 40-70% 20-Hydroxecdysone.

Extraction Method

EcdyMorph is produced using an extensive series of procedures to reach a purity of 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone. The final step in the process is super critical CO² extraction. This process creates material in a crystalline form. This formation of crystals differentiates EcdyMorph from other ecdysterone extracts. The difference can be seen using X-ray crystallography. This may explain why a 20-hydroxyecdysone extract with puritiy greater than 99% can be considerbly more effective than a slightly less pure extract.

Ecdymorph Dosing

There is controversy as to how much ecdysterone someone must consume to obtain desired results. The debate has risen due to the various extracts that have been used in the many different ecdysterone containing products. The quality of the ecdysterone extract greatly influences effectiveness. We have found that a 20 mg dose off a 99% 20hydroxyecdysone in crystalline form is effective and should be taken two to threes times a day. Ecdysterone has a relatively short half life, so frequent dosing is necessary. Many companies using a cheaper, lesser pure extracts suggest consumers to take much higher amounts to receive benefits. We are convinced that 20 mg of EcdyMorph is more beneficial than several hundred milligrams of a Cyanotis Vaga ecdysterone extract.

The Science and Clinical Studies

Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. They also have been reported to have effects in lowering of cholesterol, and management of healthy blood glucose levels.

There have not been numerous human studies done on ecdysterone . More importantly, very few studies have been conducted using a 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone extract. There is a particular study done with athletes published in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. It was titled: “Effects of Methoxyisoflavone, Ecdysterone, and Sulfo-Polysaccharide Supplementation on Training Adaptations in Resistance-Trained Males”. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2129166/ This was a very disappointing study. This study was most likely designed to discredit the effectiveness of ecdysterone as a nutritional supplement. They used a cheap ecdysterone extract and had the athletes take one single dose daily. The study was designed to fail and was most likely funded by a company that didn't have ecdysterone in their product line. At the time of the study there were a couple good ecdysterone products available that contained a 97% 20-hydroxyecdysone. These product were effective at dose ranging from 10-20 mg.

There have been two recent studies with a 99% 20-Hydroxyecdysone on mice suggesting its ability to increase muscle protein synthesis, reducing body fat, and produce an anti-diabetic effect. The studies are very interesting and can be found on the internet. The studies are listed below.

20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat. Phytomedicine: International Journal of Phytotherapy & Phytopharmacology; September 1, 2008, Volume: 15 Issue: 9 Page: 691(8)
20-Hydroxyecdysone decreases weight and hyperglycemia in a diet-induced obesity mice model. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 296:433-439, 2009.

The results of these studies were very impressive. We realize that consumers are not Rodentia, but the findings support anecdotal evidence collected throughout the years from consumers who used products containing Ecdymorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone).

The most interesting study with ecdysteroids done to date was published in 2008. Phytoecdysteroids Increase Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle Cells. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 3532–3537. This study not only measured an increase in protein synthesis, but also suggested how ecdysteroids work. The conclusion of the study: "In mammals, which seem to lack homologous receptors, the molecular mechanisms of ecdysteroid action are still unknown. Although our findings suggest that ecdysteroids may be mediated by a pathway that converges on the PI3K pathway, rather than on the androgen receptor pathway, more study is needed to confirm this hypothesis".

Other notable studies:

* Chermnykh, N.S., et.al. (1988). The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles. Farmakol. Tok. (USSR). 51, 57-60

* Simakin, S. Yu., et al., (1988). The Combined Use of Ecdisten and the Product 'Bodrost' during Training in Cyclical Types of Sport. Scientific Sports Bulletin, No. 2

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2129166/



Results

No significant differences (p > 0.05) were observed in training adaptations among groups in the variables FFM, percent body fat, bench press 1 RM, leg press 1 RM or sprint peak power. Anabolic/catabolic analysis revealed no significant differences among groups in active testosterone (AT), free testosterone (FT), cortisol, the AT to cortisol ratio, urea nitrogen, creatinine, the blood urea nitrogen to creatinine ratio. In addition, no significant differences were seen from pre to post supplementation and/or training in AT, FT, or cortisol.

Conclusion

Results indicate that M, E, and CSP3 supplementation do not affect body composition or training adaptations nor do they influence the anabolic/catabolic hormone status or general markers of catabolism in resistance-trained males.



edit: I guess I should have read the part of your post on this particular study. However, I would have to guess that the supplement is more trouble than it's worth due to the unknowns.

Edited by JChief, 23 September 2011 - 11:37 AM.

[Boolean]

Wow, thanks for that study, JChief. I was actually going to buy some Methoxyisoflavone, and Ecdysterone. Good thing I didn't! I'll just stick to the good stuff I know for sure works.

[alecnevsky]

Does anyone know how to eat spinach but control for oxolate?

[bestbefore]

Does anyone know how to eat spinach but control for oxolate?

Cook it for a couple of minutes or steam it to reduce oxolates, but throw away the water.

http://www.westonapr...ronic-disorders

[alecnevsky]

Does anyone know how to eat spinach but control for oxolate?

Cook it for a couple of minutes or steam it to reduce oxolates, but throw away the water.

http://www.westonapr...ronic-disorders

Wow I've been eating spinach in super high quantities for like years and he says 2 weeks.

TREATMENT

Even though we can avoid the worst offenders—soy foods and spinach— if you are enjoying a varied diet, it is difficult to reduce dietary oxalate levels to near zero because they occur in so many foods—grains, nuts, vegetables and fruits.

The most effective way to get rid of oxalates is the use of calcium citrate. This supplement exerts a double potency action in eliminating oxalate. The calcium part of calcium citrate binds to the oxalate and causes it to precipitate out in the stool so it will not be absorbed. But part of the oxalate escapes. The citrate is a second line of defense, which competes directly with the oxalate for absorption.

For the treatment to be effective, the calcium citrate must be taken at the same time as the oxalate-containing food. If you have problems with any of conditions caused by oxalates—kidney stones, autism or vulvodynia— then taking calcium citrate with each meal can be very effective. If there is an adequate amount of calcium in the diet—if supplementing with calcium citrate, for example—it will combine with the oxalate in the GI tract, precipitate out in the stool, and then be eliminated in the stool.

The optimum dosage is approximately 300-350 mg calcium as calcium citrate for a total of 1000 mg (one gram) of calcium a day. If you’re taking this you don’t need additional sources of calcium. An even better approach would be to use magnesium citrate. The adult dosage is about 300-400 mg a day. Some practitioners recommend up to 1000 mg but many people report problems with diarrhea if they exceed 400 mg. Again, a divided dose would be best, taking the magnesium citrate with each meal.

Some other supplements that can be very useful include probiotics and anti-fungal medication to help to control Candida. The probiotic bacteria have enzymes that break down oxalates.

The amino acid arginine helps to prevent the depositing of oxalates in the tissues. The omega-3 fatty acids and cod liver oil are also very effective in preventing oxalate deposition. The omega-6 fatty acids, mostly from commercial vegetable oils, behave in the reverse, and accelerate the deposition of oxalate.

The supplement that is most helpful is vitamin B6. This costs only pennies a day and is extremely safe. I take 100 mg every single day. I recommend just the pyridoxine form. I know the type called P5P is also used but personally I don’t think you get the additional benefit by the P5P.

There are a number of medical tests for oxalate status that we use at Great Plains Laboratory. We have a urine panel to measure oxalates and we can also test for yeast markers. We typically find that where the yeast marker is very high, the oxalate marker is also very high. We also test for vitamin B₆.

With these measures, kidney stones are largely preventable. This is good news because oxalate buildup can do a lot of damage.

I think the CR people are really onto something. It does make sense for spinach to have such protective properties however -- it's a superfood.


Edit: so is it calcium citrate or magnesium citrate? Does it have to be citrate ?

Edited by alecnevsky, 31 May 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[alecnevsky]

BUMP. Crucial food with amazing benefits.

What's the best way to avoid oxalates? I reflected this to an MD and she said best thing to do is eat a "balanced diet." Thanks!

Is taking calcium simultaneously really going to be effective? How do we know with certainty before we take more calcium than we need?

[Spherical Cow]

http://www.westonapr...ronic-disorders

"Virtually everybody who eats a large spinach salad every day is going to succumb to kidney stones."

...Best keep the daily spinach salad small.

[medspa]

this is really amazing. i don't know all those fact actually. it was really nice to know about spinach, thanks for sharing those information.

[lazarian]

Well, no matter how much you need to eat for an 'optimal' effect, this is simply another reason to enjoy this yummy veggie.

[Ben]

http://www.westonapr...ronic-disorders

"Virtually everybody who eats a large spinach salad every day is going to succumb to kidney stones."

...Best keep the daily spinach salad small.

That is frightening. Thanks for posting that.

[Dolph]

http://www.westonapr...ronic-disorders

"Virtually everybody who eats a large spinach salad every day is going to succumb to kidney stones."

...Best keep the daily spinach salad small.

That is frightening. Thanks for posting that.

It's rather (typical WAPF...) nonsense than frightening. It's essentially unknown why some people get oxalate stones, but NOT EVERYONE is getting them with increased dietary oxalate and you can't induce them in MOST people even with very very high amounts.