31 replies to this topic

[InVeritate]

A couple studies have indicated that men with Spinal Cord Injury(SCI)develop low levels of serum testosterone. This may contribute to some of the problems SCI patients encounter as they age including bone density loss. My injury occurred when I was a toddler. I am now 27. My body has produced enough testosterone to stimulate "normal" development and I feel I have a healthy sex desire, but I wonder if it is producing enough to prevent some of the problems associated with low T levels and possibly premature aging. This is especially a concern because I have been injured for so long. I would hope to especially benefit from an improved mood, better focus and stamina, and possibly improved sexual functioning. While I have developed normally physically, I still have the attendant problems of SCI including erectile dysfunction. There are also risk to high levels of testosterone including increased risks for certain cancers. I am going to ask my physician and hopefully get tested for T levels if it is affordable, or at all covered by my insurance plan, but I would like your thoughts.

[nowayout]

It would all depend on the result of your test. If you are in fact low, the risks associated of bringing you into the normal range are small. Remember to go for the test in the morning, preferably within 2 hours of waking up (afternoon levels are lower in everybody so a meaningful decision can only be made based on your morning level). And try to convince your doctor to test for bioavailable testosterone, not just total testosterone. Finally, you don't seem to complain of any specific symptoms associated with low testosterone, in which case you shouldn't expect miracles from T supplementation.

[InVeritate]

The only miracle I would be hoping for is the same miracle everyone else on this forum is currently working to achieve: indefinite life extension. Barring that, I want to live a long a healthy life. I had never knew about the Testosterone deficit in SCI patient until I recently started researching aging in SCI patients. Most of it was recent research and still seems outside the bounds of rehabilitation therapies. If I have no present complaints, I would attribute it to my early interest in a healthy lifestyle. When I compare myself to others who also suffered pediatric SCI, I am an outlier in the terms of my health. But I think that may only be the case for so long. My fear is that aging and complications from SCI my exacerbate the effects of low testosterone. Effects that are not so apparent to me now, may suddenly become apparent. Bone density loss particularly disturbs me. Right now I do not worry about a fall from my chair, but for many patients even a minor spill can result in severely broken bones, necessitating invasive surgery. Researching it more I realized that the few complaints I may have, especially cognitive ability and mental health, my be related to low T.

Thank you for the advice on what test to get and when to get it. I haven't been to a doctor in many years and am planning to have a comprehensive physical.

[OneScrewLoose]

Like vive said, it all depends on your tests. Post them when you get them.

[InVeritate]

I am now researching supplements that might improve testosterone. This is a real pain for the reason that every other herb is being sold as a sex tonic and it is difficult to find solid information. Apparently a couple herbs I already supplement (Maca and Astralagus) may do so, but the science doesn't support it. Bodybuilders really seem to like ZMA, but the limited, and possibly biased, studies conducted do not support it. Analyzing my diet I see I probably get enough of these minerals.

A few that currently seem promising include: Cistanche, Horny Goat Weed, and Tongkat Ali.

There are at least a few studies indicating some improvements in the male hormonal profile.

Does anybody have any experience with these?

Edited by InVeritate, 23 March 2011 - 08:09 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

ZMA studies were forged by using subjects already deficient in zinc. Zinc is necessary to produce testosterone. There's a lot of proprietary mixes out there like this one, which do boost test levels, but they are temporary products that are designed to be cycled. Honestly, I wouldn't be worried about this until the tests come through. If you're looking to boost test regardless of what the test says, then that's a whole 'nother story.

[niner]

one density loss particularly disturbs me. Right now I do not worry about a fall from my chair, but for many patients even a minor spill can result in severely broken bones, necessitating invasive surgery.

Osteopenia and osteoporosis are genuine concerns, but there is a lot you can do to prevent them. Avoid colas and other phosphoric acid drinks. Chocolate consumption is epidemiologically associated with loss of BMD, presumably due to its oxalate content. Things to supplement include vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, bioavailable silica, microcrystalline hydroxyapatite (source of calcium and other substances); get adequate magnesium, zinc, boron, and potassium. Much of this is packaged in bone supplements; I like Jarrow's Bone Up. In addition to supplements, bisphosphonates are very effective. They've been implicated in extending lifespan, even after taking reduction of fractures into account. I use Actonel, 35mg/wk. Ask your doctor to prescribe a DEXA Scan, then treat as needed.

[Lovetolearn]

Testofen(an extract of fenugreek) has a little research based around it reporting testosterone increases. Also look at Fadogia Agrestis and Divanil(an extract of nettle). The herbal that is all the rage in bodybuilding right now is Bulbine Natalensis.

[InVeritate]

one density loss particularly disturbs me. Right now I do not worry about a fall from my chair, but for many patients even a minor spill can result in severely broken bones, necessitating invasive surgery.

Osteopenia and osteoporosis are genuine concerns, but there is a lot you can do to prevent them. Avoid colas and other phosphoric acid drinks. Chocolate consumption is epidemiologically associated with loss of BMD, presumably due to its oxalate content. Things to supplement include vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, bioavailable silica, microcrystalline hydroxyapatite (source of calcium and other substances); get adequate magnesium, zinc, boron, and potassium. Much of this is packaged in bone supplements; I like Jarrow's Bone Up. In addition to supplements, bisphosphonates are very effective. They've been implicated in extending lifespan, even after taking reduction of fractures into account. I use Actonel, 35mg/wk. Ask your doctor to prescribe a DEXA Scan, then treat as needed.

Fortunately, I have never been much of a cola drinker. Even as a kid I preferred water. Like I said, I had an early interest in health. I had two friends with injuries similar to mine at young ages I met in the hospital while growing up. One died in his early 20s from complication to a pressure ulcer after contracting MRSA. The other one seemed to be healthy, but fell out of his chair at a weird angle and shattered a leg, breaking it in several places. He was in his early 30s. I had a lot of health problems growing up including pediatric pneumonia and pressure ulcers, but in my early teens, probably as a result of the time I spent in the hospital I got really interested in health. Not many doctors are familiar with the complications of SCI, so I have a proactive interest in learning as much as I can to help direct my care. Thank for the great information. Knowing this kind of info makes it easier to talk to my doctor.

Testofen(an extract of fenugreek) has a little research based around it reporting testosterone increases. Also look at Fadogia Agrestis and Divanil(an extract of nettle). The herbal that is all the rage in bodybuilding right now is Bulbine Natalensis.

That surprises me. I had also considered fenugreek a "feminine" herb because of its reputed phytoestrogens . My wife supplements it. I found one study supporting its use in improved libido in men. It is qualitative though. I am trying to find more that look at actual serum testosterone. I am a little wary of the bodybuilding herbs.

This is interesting: http://www.prweb.com...rweb3519384.htm

I think it is similar to the market for the numerous sex/libido pills. It is easy to market and profitable to sell, without necessarily being effective. Unfortunately there isn't much information on Bulbine Natalensis outside of mentions in body building forums, but I will be following your suggestions to see if any evidence emerges as to effectiveness.

Outside of medication, having sex or viewing sexual stimuli possibly increases it:

Relationship between testosterone and interest in sexual stimuli: The effect of experience
Original Research Article
Hormones and Behavior, Volume 52, Issue 5, December 2007, Pages 581-589
Heather A. Rupp and Kim Wallen

http://www.newsweek..../rx-vs-xxx.html

It would make since to me that a healthy and active sex life would support male longevity, but can the same benefits be derived from pornography or other erotic stimuli?

Edited by InVeritate, 24 March 2011 - 04:53 PM.

[Lufega]

Wait for the exam but check the results carefully. They may come out "normal" but check to see if you're in the low normal range. If you are, Testosterone might be helpful. T upregulates a signaling pathway called the Wnt Beta/catenin pathway. This pathway promotes healing in many parts of the body including the lungs and spinal cord. Over expression of this also leads to cancer but this behavior is obviously abnormal and doesn't apply to regular repair mechanisms. I have a whole list of things that activate this pathway and that inactivates it (which you want to avoid). PM me if you want this info. Lithium, btw, is one of the best activators.

[VoidPointer]

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone take straight testosterone over the standard anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nandrolone

My understanding is that Deca is significantly less androgenic than testosterone, which generally means less side effects.

[david ellis]

. . . There are also risk to high levels of testosterone including increased risks for certain cancers. ..

Dr Abraham Morgenthaler, urologist at Harvard does not believe that high levels of T increase the risk of prostate cancer. In fact, he believes that low levels of T raise the risk.

Not only does low T not seem to protect against prostate cancer, but there is some evidence that low T may also be associated with high grade cancers, higher stage at diagnosis, and worse clinical outcomes.

[Lovetolearn]

@Inveritate: from personal experience I have tried both the bulbine natalensis and some pharmaceutical grade Fadogia Agrestis. The Bulbine I didn't really respond to, however, I loved being on Fadogia. I have no bloodwork to support anything but I had all the symptoms of elevated testosterone. Greatly increased libido, more drive, increased aggression (a good aggression though, not an omg you ate the last cookie I smash you now aggression), increased recovery, less fatigue and greatly increased testicular size. Some of this could have been placebo admittedly, except the fact that testicle size was significantly increased. Just my 2 cents, in case you want to experiment with Herbals.

[Lufega]

If you do, maybe you can mix it with Clenbuterol

Effects of co-administration of clenbuterol and testosterone propionate on skeletal muscle in paraplegic mice.
Ung RV, Rouleau P, Guertin PA.

Neuroscience Unit, Laval University Medical Center (CHUL-CHUQ), Quebec City, Quebec, Canada.


Abstract
Spinal cord injury (SCI) is generally associated with a rapid and significant decrease in muscle mass and corresponding changes in skeletal muscle properties. Although beta(2)-adrenergic and androgen receptor agonists are anabolic substances clearly shown to prevent or reverse muscle wasting in some pathological conditions, their effects in SCI patients remain largely unknown. Here we studied the effects of clenbuterol and testosterone propionate administered separately or in combination on skeletal muscle properties and adipose tissue in adult CD1 mice spinal-cord-transected (Tx) at the low-thoracic level (i.e., induced complete paraplegia). Administered shortly post-Tx, these substances were found to differentially reduce loss in body weight, muscle mass, and muscle fiber cross-sectional area (CSA) values. Although all three treatments induced significant effects, testosterone-treated animals were generally less protected against Tx-related changes. However, none of the treatments prevented fat tissue loss or muscle fiber type conversion and functional loss generally found in Tx animals. These results provide evidence suggesting that clenbuterol alone or combined with testosterone may constitute better clinically-relevant treatments than testosterone alone to decrease muscle atrophy (mass and fiber CSA) in SCI subjects.

PMID: 20482256 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[InVeritate]

I am currently working through a list of herbs I compiled from various sources said to promote male virility and stamina and examining the literature to determine which have been studied and have scientific evidence supporting the enhancement of serum T levels. It is a huge list and this is what I have so far and I am only about 1/3 through it. Most the research is focused on sexual health health correlated to T increases. I am conducting another literature review focusing on improvements in skeletal and muscle degeneration. I will be getting tested soon and will know exactly where my level is.


Eucommia ulmoides:

Constituents and pharmacological effects of Eucommia and Siberian ginseng
http://en.cnki.com.c...LL200112000.htm

"Reports that an extract of Eucommia bark significantly increased the weight of the

adrenal gland and androgen secretion in castrated rats.Treatment of hind-limb suspended

rats showed isgnificantly higher levels of serum testosterone.

The effects of asiasarum,eucommia bark and its mistura on testiculus and serum

testosterone of subacute ageing mice: http://en.cnki.com.c...e_en/CJFDTOTAL-

ZLXZ200723004.htm

Administration of Eucommia extract to ageing mice showed increased testicular weight,

thickened semeniferous tubule, improved sperm count and quality."

Panax Ginseg:

Effect of Panax Ginseng on Testosterone Level and Prostate in Male Rats:
http://informahealth...485018208990207

"Rats showed significant increases in testosterone serum levels.Prostate weight was

reduced."

A Double-Blind Crossover Study Evaluating the Efficacy of Korean Red Ginseng in

Patients With Erectile Dysfunction: http://www.jurology....e/S0022-5347(05)

64298-X/abstract

"Scores on questions 3 (penetration) and 4 (maintenance) were significantly higher in

the ginseng than in the placebo group (p <0.01). In response to the global efficacy

question 60% of the patients answered that Korean red ginseng improved erection (p

<0.01). Among other variables penile tip rigidity on RigiScan showed significant

improvement for ginseng versus placebo."

Gingko Biloba:

Kuei-Ying Yeh, Hsiao-Fung Pu, Krishna Kaphle, Shih-Fan Lin, Leang-Shin Wu, Jen-Hsou

Lin, Yuan-Feen Tsai, Ginkgo biloba extract enhances male copulatory behavior and

reduces serum prolactin levels in rats, Hormones and Behavior, Volume 53, Issue 1,

January 2008, Pages 225-231, ISSN 0018-506X, DOI: 10.1016/j.yhbeh.2007.10.001.
(http://www.sciencedi.../B6WGC-4PW05F1-

3/2/f5c86da114ef2198b71b28687c9fd966)


"Administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 28 days and of 100 mg/kg for 14 or 21 days

significantly increased intromission frequency compared to controls on the same day. An

increase in ejaculation frequency was seen after treatment with 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for

14, 21, or 28 days when compared to either the control group on the same day or the

same group on day 0. A reduction in ejaculation latency was only seen after

administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14 days compared to the vehicle-treated

group. (But no increase in serum T was found)"


Effect of Ginkgo biloba Extract on Plasma Steroid Concentrations in Healthy Volunteers:

A Pilot Study

"A 14-day oral administration of a widely used, standardized ginkgo extract at a

generally advocated dosage of 240 mg/day did not significantly alter concentrations of

major circulating steroids in men and women."

Tribulus terrestris

Sexual Effects of Puncturevine (Tribulus terrestris) Extract (Protodioscin): An

Evaluation Using a Rat Model:

Kalamegam Gauthaman, Adaikan P. Ganesan, R. N. V. Prasad. The Journal of Alternative

and Complementary Medicine. April 2003, 9(2): 257-265. doi:10.1089/10755530360623374.

"The weight gain and improvement in sexual behavior parameters observed in rats could

be secondary to the androgen increasing property of TT (PTN) that was observed in our

earlier study on primates. The increase in ICP which confirms the proerectile

aphrodisiac property of TT could possibly be the result of an increase in androgen and

subsequent release of nitric oxide from the nerve endings innervating the corpus

cavernosum."

But:

The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in

young men: Journal of Ethnopharmacology
Volume 101, Issues 1-3, 3 October 2005, Pages 319-323

"There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups

and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean ± S.D.: 15.75 ± 1.75 nmol/l); TT2

(mean ± S.D.: 16.32 ± 1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean ± S.D.: 17.74 ± 1.09 nmol/l) (p >

0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean ± S.D.: 1.927 ± 0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean ± S.D.:

2.026 ± 0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean ± S.D.: 1.952 ± 0.236 ng/ml) (p > 0.05)) or

luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean ± S.D.: 4.662 ± 0.274 U/l); TT2 (mean ± S.D.: 4.103 ±

0.869 U/l); controls (mean ± S.D.: 4.170 ± 0.406 U/l) (p > 0.05)) levels. All results

were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that

Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-

increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode

of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins."

However:

The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male

erectile dysfunction – an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat:Phytomedicine
Volume 15, Issues 1-2, 25 January 2008, Pages 44-54

"In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5 mg/kg were

statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to

control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10 mg/kg) were

statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were

observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT

increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the

extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED."

Tongkat Ali:

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and

Testosterone-Stimulated castrated intact male rats:

http://www.springerl...164457x2745v4n/

the proandrogenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use

of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

P. Zanoli, M. Zavatti, C. Montanari, M. Baraldi, Influence of Eurycoma longifolia on

the copulatory activity of sexually sluggish and impotent male rats, Journal of

Ethnopharmacology, Volume 126, Issue 2, 12 November 2009, Pages 308-313, ISSN 0378-

8741, DOI: 10.1016/j.jep.2009.08.021.

Eurycoma longifolia root improved sexual performance but not motivation in sluggish

rats after acute or subacute administration. The effect could be mainly ascribed to

increased testosterone levels.

[Lovetolearn]

Tribulus terrestris will not increase testosterone. It can heighten libido however. Tribulus alatus the jury is still out on however.

[JD.]

great post, inVeritate. I would love to see the whole list when you get a chance to finish it

[Guacamolium]

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone take straight testosterone over the standard anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nandrolone

My understanding is that Deca is significantly less androgenic than testosterone, which generally means less side effects.

Because you're trying to make up for the deficit in testosterone levels, not levels of a steroid that is based on the estrene skeleton. Test and nandrolone (although similar) vary in effects. In other words, your goal is to get testosterone to its optimum level. Nandrolone doesn't turn into testosterone in the body, but very small amounts of testosterone can turn into nandrolone.

Deca may be less androgenic, but that merely serves as a trade-off for other side effects. Highly androgenic steroids have their positive and negative attributes, and highly anabolic ones have theirs as well. Conversion to DHT and other steroids is also a large factor to consider.

inVeritate posted that he is experiencing erectile dysfunction from SCI, which would get much worse with Deca treatment. Testosterone in this case would be the better solution.

Also, d-aspartic acid boosts testosterone levels in humans and is inexpensive -
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19860889

[VoidPointer]

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone take straight testosterone over the standard anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nandrolone

My understanding is that Deca is significantly less androgenic than testosterone, which generally means less side effects.

Because you're trying to make up for the deficit in testosterone levels, not levels of a steroid that is based on the estrene skeleton. Test and nandrolone (although similar) vary in effects. In other words, your goal is to get testosterone to its optimum level. Nandrolone doesn't turn into testosterone in the body, but very small amounts of testosterone can turn into nandrolone.

Deca may be less androgenic, but that merely serves as a trade-off for other side effects. Highly androgenic steroids have their positive and negative attributes, and highly anabolic ones have theirs as well. Conversion to DHT and other steroids is also a large factor to consider.

inVeritate posted that he is experiencing erectile dysfunction from SCI, which would get much worse with Deca treatment. Testosterone in this case would be the better solution.

Also, d-aspartic acid boosts testosterone levels in humans and is inexpensive -
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19860889

Hmm, Ok.. thanks for the explanation.

[InVeritate]

I had a chance to continue my review of the numerous herbs and supplements marketed to be aphrodisiacs, libido enhancers, fertility enhancers, or performance enhancers thinking they may be acting on testosterone levels. I have gone through approximately 30 different herbs and supplements so far. It seems there are 3 categories herbs fall into. First, are those that effect NO levels or act as vasodilators, second, are those that affect the nerves in the pelvic region, and third those that affect hormone levels. The literature for all is very confusing, with contradictory findings for most herbs. Or in many cases no studies at all.

Here were a few more that were indicated to increase serum T levels:



Horny Goat Weed:

Erectogenic and Neurotrophic Effects of Icariin, a Purified Extract of Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium
spp.) In Vitro and In Vivo. JOurnal of Sexual Medicine. V. 7 iss. 4.

Rats treated with low-dose ICA demonstrated significantly higher ICP/MAP and AUC/MAP ratios compared
with control and single-dose ICA animals. Immunohistochemistry and Western blot were revealing of
significantly greater positivity for nNOS and calponin in penile tissues of all rats treated with ICA.
ICA led to significantly greater neurite length in cultured specimens of pelvic ganglia.
(Possible speculation of serum T increase but I do not have access to the full paper. Many online
sources have warned of the possible side effects including mania and hypertension.)

Zinc and foods high in zinc (Oysters):

(In some food cases attributed to the amino acid taurine or flavonoids that stimulate the reproductive
system, but more than likely can be attributed to the high zinc content.)

Zinc status and serum testosterone levels of healthy adults. Journal of Applied Nutrition.V.12 issue
5. 1996

Dietary zinc restriction in normal young men was associated with a significant decrease in serum
testosterone concentrations after 20 weeks of zinc restriction (baseline versus post-zinc restriction
mean ± SD, 39.9 ± 7.1 versus 10.6 ± 3.6 nmol/L, respectively; p = 0.005). Zinc supplementation of
marginally zinc-deficient normal elderly men for six months resulted in an increase ins erum
testosterone from 8.3 ± 6.3 to 16.0 ± 4.4 nmol/p (p = 0.02). We conclude that zinc may play an
important role in modulating serum testosterone levels in normal men.

Effect of zinc supplementation on serum testosterone level in adult male sickle cell anemia subjects.
American Journal of Hemotology. V. 12. Issue 2. 1981

We conclude that androgen deficiency in adult male subjects with sickle cell anemia is correctable
with zinc supplementation and that the determination of neutrophil zinc and alkaline phosphatase
activity in the neutrophils may be utilized as good indicators of body zinc status in such subjects

Effect of Zinc Administration on Plasma Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, and Sperm Count. Systems
biology in reproductive medicine. vol. 7. no.1. 1981

Read More: http://informahealth...485018109009378

The effects of zinc therapy on plasma testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and sperm count
were studied in 37 patients with idiopathic infertility of more than five years duration. In the first
group (T < 4.8 ng/ml; 22 patients), T and DHT rose significantly after oral administration of zinc, as
did the sperm count. Nine wives became pregnant, six within 3 months and three within 2 months of a
second trial. In the second group (T > 4.8 ng/ml; 15 patients), T and sperm count were unaffected by
zinc, while DHT increased significantly. There was no conception observed. The rationale of this
treatment and the significance of the results are discussed.

Cordyceps:

Effects of Cordyceps sinensis on testosterone production
in normal mouse Leydig cells. Life Sciences (69)2001.

In conclusion, CS stimulated mouse Leydig cell testosterone production in a does- and
temporal-relationships, which new protein synthesis was required. Moreover, hCG-stimulated
testosterone productions were suppressed by CS in a dose-dependent relationship in mouse
Leydig cells, which CS affected steroidogenesis by influencing the site in signal transduction
pathway after the formation of cyclic AMP.

In vivo and in vitro stimulatory effects of Cordyceps sinensis on testosterone production in mouse
Leydig cells.Life SciencesVolume 73, Issue 16, 5 September 2003, Pages 2127-2136:

The in vivo and in vitro effects of Cordyceps sinensis (CS) and its extracted fractions on the
secretion of testosterone in mice were studied. CS, F2 (water soluble protein), and F3 (poorly water
soluble polysaccharide and protein) significantly stimulated in vitro testosterone production in
purified mouse Leydig cells. However, F1 (water soluble polysaccharide) had no effect (p>0.05). F2 and
F3 stimulated in vitro testosterone production in dose- and time-dependent relationships with maximal
responses at 3 mg/ml for 3 h (p<0.05). An in vivo study illustrated that testosterone levels in plasma
were significantly increased by CS, F2, and F3, respectively (p<0.05). Because CS, F2, and F3
stimulated both in vitro and in vivo testosterone secretions in mice, it is possible that CS might
contribute to an alternative medicine for the treatment of some reproductive problems caused by
insufficient testosterone levels in human males.

[nowayout]

Be aware that there are concerns that DAA may also be neurotoxic.

[Lovetolearn]

3g a day of DAA will raise testosterone. There is of course some concern of excitotoxicity. Its recommended to cycle it. Commonly, its ran 12 on 12 off. I'd recommend maybe a mild aromatase inhibitor with it as some people I know have reported gyno flareups after using it.

[InVeritate]

I finally got the results. And it seems like I am within the standard range.


Total Testosterone My Value: 342 Standard Range: 250 - 1100 ng/dL

Total Testosterone was measured by LCMSMS. The LCMSMS method
correlates well with our extraction/RIA method.

Free Testosterone My Value: 110.1 Standard Range:35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL

I am still going to try to get better expression of testosterone, but it doesn't seem like I need synthetic test. In a way I am slightly disappointed. For a long time I have had issues with lack of focus and motivation or drive and thought this could be one reason, but I guess it really isn't.

Edited by InVeritate, 18 April 2011 - 04:59 PM.

[rwac]

Total Testosterone My Value: 342 Standard Range: 250 - 1100 ng/dL

You said you were 27 right ?
You should have T values in the upper half of that range.
Sorry, but you have the testosterone levels of the average 75 year old man.

http://www.jimmythom...estosterone.htm

Edited by rwac, 18 April 2011 - 05:08 PM.

[InVeritate]

I just turned 28. No need to be sorry. I would appreciate frank discussion. My doctor didn't flag it for further review so I assumed it was an acceptable result. I get the feeling it will be a tough sell to convince my primary physician to further review this issue, but if there are some legitimate and proven concerns out there I could pass to him he might be more open minded. I get the feeling he will react the same way I initially did; its in the "normal" range so it is okay. When I first started reading about T deficiency it seemed to fit exactly what has been affecting me for many years. Quite literally I feel like I do not have any fight in me. Without feeling depressed, I have always felt down and out. And my focus and motivation are terrible. So please any information that could be used to work with my doctor is very welcome.

Edited to add:

The test was conducted in the morning when test should be highest and I do everything that should keep testosterone high. I do not smoke or drink and I exercise everyday. My diet is low in fat. And I eat lots nuts/seeds high in zinc.

Edited by InVeritate, 18 April 2011 - 07:44 PM.

[The Immortalist]

Total Testosterone My Value: 342 Standard Range: 250 - 1100 ng/dL

http://www.jimmythom...estosterone.htm

It say's there that high protein low carb diets decrease testosterone levels. I find that hard to believe. Look at arthur de Vany, he doesn't seem to have low t levels for his age.

[rwac]

The test was conducted in the morning when test should be highest and I do everything that should keep testosterone high. I do not smoke or drink and I exercise everyday. My diet is low in fat. And I eat lots nuts/seeds high in zinc.

That low fat diet may be responsible atleast in part for the low T level.
More Saturated fat might be something to try.

It say's there that high protein low carb diets decrease testosterone levels. I find that hard to believe. Look at arthur de Vany, he doesn't seem to have low t levels for his age.

Sorry, I just put in a random link for variation of testosterone by age, didn't read the whole thing.

[nowayout]

Few ordinary physicians will treat a testosterone level that is in range. Don't even bother. You won't get anywhere. Even with most endocrinologists you won't get anywhere.

There are doctors who specialize in male HRT, Such a doctor would be a better bet. I think most would say a total testosterone value below 350 ng/ml would be grounds for testosterone replacement IF you have symptoms of low T.

BUT was this a morning blood draw, within 2 hours of waking up? Morning levels are the ones used for clinical decision making w.r.t. TRT, since afternoon levels are about half of morning levels in young men. In other words, your number would be fine for an afternoon level, but it is not great for a morning level.

Also be aware that there could be hundreds of other reasons for the vague symptoms that you describe. I don't think lack of focus and motivation is something that really responds much to TRT in most cases anyway. If you mean lack of motivation for sex, then maybe yes, but lack of motivation to study or work, forget it, TRT won't help you.

Edited by viveutvivas, 18 April 2011 - 11:10 PM.

[InVeritate]

This was a morning test. The blood was drawn at about 9:30, a little more than two hours after waking up. I agree the symptoms I described are vague and it has been frustrating. But, on some of the forums or in the literature similar types of symptoms were described by men prior to undergoing HRT. I hesitate to use the word symptoms though. I guess because I do not feel sick, just "off", it is like a feeling of malaise or fatigue. In fact I had brought it up to my doctor years ago, inquiring about the potential depression (my younger brother has severe bi-polar disorder, enough to be committed) or ADD, though he didn't consider either applicable. I have usually believed it to be in my head. And honestly I acknowledge I am speculating. Working against the low T hypothesis is that I would gauge my sex drive as very normal, though it is difficult to gauge it physically since I use Levitra.

[Dmitri]

A couple studies have indicated that men with Spinal Cord Injury(SCI)develop low levels of serum testosterone. This may contribute to some of the problems SCI patients encounter as they age including bone density loss. My injury occurred when I was a toddler. I am now 27. My body has produced enough testosterone to stimulate "normal" development and I feel I have a healthy sex desire, but I wonder if it is producing enough to prevent some of the problems associated with low T levels and possibly premature aging. This is especially a concern because I have been injured for so long. I would hope to especially benefit from an improved mood, better focus and stamina, and possibly improved sexual functioning. While I have developed normally physically, I still have the attendant problems of SCI including erectile dysfunction. There are also risk to high levels of testosterone including increased risks for certain cancers. I am going to ask my physician and hopefully get tested for T levels if it is affordable, or at all covered by my insurance plan, but I would like your thoughts.

I think you should speak with your doctor as there are conflicting studies. There are studies that show great benefits, but at the same time there are also studies that show adverse affects if taken for long periods. What many of those studies have in common though is that they tell you to get periodic blood testing if you're supplementing testosterone. The problem with that is that some insurance companies might not cover periodic visits to the doctor several times a year and for blood testing.