18 replies to this topic

[ozone]

http://www.metabolic...TIDYLSERINE.doc (explains how PS inhibits ACTH)
http://www.drdebe.com/STRESS.htm (explains the nutshell below)

Nutshell: PS inhibits the release of ACTH which in turn results in the release of DHEA and Cortisol. These three things are a direct result of stress, however the "right" amount of them is good for you. But in overstressed situations, when too much Cortisol is released, it can actually inhibit your memory.

So... what do you do? Well, the body best deals with stress at night when and if you can reach R.E.M.. But, that is hard when you are in an overstressed state. So, if you've had a rough day, take some PS before bed. But don't just pop PS during the day because it will have an overall negative affect on your cognative performance. Thoughts?

[scottl]

"Well, the body best deals with stress at night"

???

[pinballwizard]

Or, perhaps one should test their cortisol levels and appropriately...Saliva tests are available online for $30. I dont know if they are reliable or BS. I might have high cortisol because of my stress levels. So it is curious to try for me. Ideas? Scottl, anyone?

[pinballwizard]

Oh, and you can test for DHEA levels too... for DHEA supplementation. If your DHEA is low, supplementation can be supposedly a huge cognitive enhancer. The book, Brain longevity I think recommended it for old people that might be hormonal lacking plus it balances out the high levels of cortisol which can kill neurons. The Author/MD tests for DHEA levels first and usually elderly only need it.

However, it is a hormone and can adverse effects all across the body... no one knows. It is perhaps theoretically very unhealthy if too high.

[vortexentity]

I did the saliva test. It found that I had low DHEA levels and high cortisol levels. I started taking the metabolite of DHEA called 7-OXO and also started taking PS, but not the phosphorylated kind. Thanks for the link. I will switch at this point over to the phosphorylated serine product. I am sure I have enough body fat to provide all the needed glycerine when needed. I had wondered if there was a mineral chelate form of the serine that would be effective. Now I know thanks.

I get a lot from this group. It is like having a large group of people all out working to find the same things I am interested in.

This has been very effective treatment for me. The picture of me in the profile is a year old and I have lost a lot of fat and increased lean body mass as a result of the changes I have made. I should update the picture soon. I think I will wait another 6 weeks or so in order to make the change more dramatic.

Being 41 I am thinking more of this and other problems. I have noticed in the last 5 years the increased rate of aging and this is mainly due to the impact of stress chemicals.

In the last year while active in changing this aging progression I have changed my appearance so much that people that have known me for years have remarked that I look taller, stronger and in better shape then I did years ago. I think if you keep up to date and make better choices you can turn the aging progression around to some extent.

[ozone]

"Well, the body best deals with stress at night"

???

You have to read the rest of the sentance. [lol] You know, the part about reaching R.E.M..

[lynx]

I did the saliva test. It found that I had low DHEA levels and high cortisol levels. I started taking the metabolite of DHEA called 7-OXO and also started taking PS, but not the phosphorylated kind.

I agree that 7-OXO or 7-Keto is a great product, have you looked at DesignerSupps.com's product 7-OH? Much, mUCHHHHH more orally active.

[vortexentity]

lynx,
I will check into that. I have considered making 7-OXO into a transdermal but thought it might not be an accurate method of delivery. I have some easy formulas I found online but did not try it yet. I will check out 7-OH. I did not know it was available. I did know about it as a metabolite of DHEA from the research I have seen online.

[pinballwizard]

Is this going to go illegal in January or no? I mean is it a prohormone? I was just checking. thanks

[lynx]

No, DHEA, 7-OXO, 7-OH and 6-OXO are spared.

[stellar]

http://www.metabolic...TIDYLSERINE.doc (explains how PS inhibits ACTH)
http://www.drdebe.com/STRESS.htm (explains the nutshell below)

Nutshell: PS inhibits the release of ACTH which in turn results in the release of DHEA and Cortisol. These three things are a direct result of stress, however the "right" amount of them is good for you. But in overstressed situations, when too much Cortisol is released, it can actually inhibit your memory.

So... what do you do? Well, the body best deals with stress at night when and if you can reach R.E.M.. But, that is hard when you are in an overstressed state. So, if you've had a rough day, take some PS before bed. But don't just pop PS during the day because it will have an overall negative affect on your cognative performance. Thoughts?

Great idea, thanks! I'm going to take a mix of Phosphatidylserine and Bacopa right now!

[pinballwizard]

I did the saliva test. It found that I had low DHEA levels and high cortisol levels. I started taking the metabolite of DHEA called 7-OXO and also started taking PS, but not the phosphorylated kind. Thanks for the link. I will switch at this point over to the phosphorylated serine product. I am sure I have enough body fat to provide all the needed glycerine when needed. I had wondered if there was a mineral chelate form of the serine that would be effective. Now I know thanks.

I get a lot from this group. It is like having a large group of people all out working to find the same things I am interested in.

This has been very effective treatment for me. The picture of me in the profile is a year old and I have lost a lot of fat and increased lean body mass as a result of the changes I have made. I should update the picture soon. I think I will wait another 6 weeks or so in order to make the change more dramatic.

Being 41 I am thinking more of this and other problems. I have noticed in the last 5 years the increased rate of aging and this is mainly due to the impact of stress chemicals.

In the last year while active in changing this aging progression I have changed my appearance so much that people that have known me for years have remarked that I look taller, stronger and in better shape then I did years ago. I think if you keep up to date and make better choices you can turn the aging progression around to some extent.

Vortex,

It looks like you blazed a trail witht the cortisol test? Do you recommend it for others? Is it easy to test? Do you have to test regularly? Do you have any advice for a 30 year old who may have high cortisol levels and low DHEA because of stress? thanks

Pinball

[vortexentity]

I suggest getting the test if you have had regular stress and have some of the associated symptoms. For the full battery of adrenal hormones, DHEA, and cortisol level with 4 daily self tests it is more expensive than just the 2 times per day. It is worth it for your health though. I take the tests every 6 months to determine the effects of my self treatment.

I do not use doctors for my self treatment because I do not think they act in my best interest. They are mostly pill pushers for big pharmcos.

www.testmyhormones.com is a good place for one stop shopping for self admin testing services. There are others but these guys do all of the ones I use. I suggest also taking the IGF1 test as you turn 40 or so. I suppliment with HGH as well. 1-IU of somatropin per day.

No one should fly blind and just start taking things that can impact your health like this without testing. $150 for the full battery of adrenal, DHEA, and cortisol is a lot cheaper than conventional treatments after the damage is done.

[ozone]

I suggest getting the test if you have had regular stress and have some of the associated symptoms. For the full battery of adrenal hormones, DHEA, and cortisol level with 4 daily self tests it is more expensive than just the 2 times per day. It is worth it for your health though. I take the tests every 6 months to determine the effects of my self treatment.

I do not use doctors for my self treatment because I do not think they act in my best interest. They are mostly pill pushers for big pharmcos.

www.testmyhormones.com is a good place for one stop shopping for self admin testing services. There are others but these guys do all of the ones I use. I suggest also taking the IGF1 test as you turn 40 or so. I suppliment with HGH as well. 1-IU of somatropin per day.

No one should fly blind and just start taking things that can impact your health like this without testing. $150 for the full battery of adrenal, DHEA, and cortisol is a lot cheaper than conventional treatments after the damage is done.

Question for you. If we look at steroids for example, if you take them, your body produces less of its own testosterone. But once you stop taking them, your body will start up again (yes they will shrink your nuts, but once you stop they will come back to their full size again). So that said, does your body's production of DHEA work the same way? What I'm getting at is, if you take DHEA when you don't need it, then your body's own production of DHEA may decrease.

If this happens, and DHEA supplementation continues for awhile, is there a chance that your body - when you stop taking it - will NOT start producing DHEA again? If the answer is "no", then I'd feel less inclined to take the test. Why? Well DHEA is fairly inexpensive, and so long as long term use won't permanently harm my body's capability of producing it's own DHEA, then I don't see a problem. So, what do you think?

[vortexentity]

Unless you can remove yourself from the stress of life, and toxins in the environment you are going to need to supplement in order to cope I think. The body does recover some ability after it has a chance to rest judging from the research articles listed at the start of this thread.

Testing is the only sure way to know that you need to be on these hormone supps. If you have all the symptoms you can give them a try for a month at the tested effective dose levels and see if your symptoms are less pronounced I guess. I think at least the $60 twice a day test should be taken once a year at least by anyone considering taking the homones to keep them from having an imbalance.

This 7-OH looks like the best choice and the phosphorylated serine will help as well. It likely can not hurt given the dose level of 50mg per day on the 7-OH.

The body seeks homeostasis so it will try and correct an imbalance. The problem is that the body's detectors become insensitive to cortisol and produces it out of proportion with normal DHEA production. This drops the DHEA level which drops the testosterone level and the DHT level and all other associated hormones. The cascade effect causes a lot of rapid aging once this cycle starts. It did for me I can tell you that from experience.

I am detoxing at a much higher level then ever before and find this has reduced a lot of the stress which seemed a reaction to toxic shock from accumulated environmental toxins. Taurine, NAC, and Chlorella is my main ones. I am starting on mercury chelation with DMSA as well pretty soon when I have time off to deal with it.

I think a lot of stress is environment impact and also work related high mental output and rapid transitions from one task to another for many years in my case at least.

Of course when I was a child and the sirens were blowing, and we were getting under our desks to prepare for a nuclear attack I never thought I would live to see the year 2000, never mind live to be older than my father or grandfather. Who knows how much stress that caused, and how much lasting impact all of the school shootings and drive-bys and wars on video games and TV is going to have to this generation. We all have our stresses and have to deal with them. I think now we have better choices in these supplements and other treatments to deal with the impact of stress than we did just a decade ago. I think this generation is going to need them. The industry of technologies that deal with stress and toxin removal should be strong for many generations to come.

[pinballwizard]

Lynx, vortex, I ordered the tests. How much DHEA are you taking, anyway?

[vortexentity]

I am taking 50mg of 7-OXO 2 times per day morning and evening.

[pinballwizard]

Well, some guru-MD said that the body only produces 15mgs of DHEA everyday... he recommends not giving more than 5mgs to anyone. The brain longevity MD-author would prolly recommend less than 25mgs to me if any at all(!). It is because I am 30 years old. And DHEA tests are mandatory.


I like the PS at night idea... I think you really came up with a good idea. In the morning I often grab a half-cafinated mocha and rush out the door, then I trade the markets and chew nicorette, then I lift weights and run at the gym-- when I get home, I am still stressed.

I need something to tell my body to shut down. I was taking melotonin for a while. but that is not quite it.

The Natural Highs Author talked about taking GABA amplifying drugs to calm me down... kava, valerian, etc, hops. See my Natural Highs book write-up.

Theanine, and 5htp might be interesting to take. It will take a while before I notice it brings me down with certainty. I never really felt relaxed with that stuff. But others say it does. I took some of that with some PS last night and it was a natural mild calming agent. Hell I dont know.

[vortexentity]

I take about 50mg of 5-HTP powder under my tongue a half hour before bed and I am ready for sleep within 30 minutes or so. I like it better than melatonin myself.

The 7-OXO is not that oral available that my 50mg is going to be a problem I think.

I started drinking a decaf tea at night. This has plenty of theanine in it and it does make me feel more relaxed. With all the nootropics and hgh and 4-AD and 7-OXO I am taking you would think I would have trouble turning it off at night but I dont really. The little 5-HTP and decaf tea is all I need.

I work from home mostly and when I am stressed I just lift some weights or take the dog for a long walk.