22 replies to this topic

[abelard lindsay]

I just got back from watching "Limitless", which is a movie in theaters now about a down-on-his-luck writer who gets entangled in a web of intrigue involving a super-nootropic. He takes the drug, goes on to be hyper-successful, has side effects, gets involved with power hungry evil people that he has to outsmart, etc. I don't want to reveal the ending but let me just say that this movie was not negative on nootropics or trans-humanism at all and I was quite surprised. In fact, it was cautiously optimistic.

I had several moments of spitting out my drink at unintentionally funny parts of the movie. When he's describing the drugs actions on receptor sites and what not, it kind of reminds me of people yammering away, referencing pubmed studies, etc on this forum.

The effects of the super-nootropic he takes are of course wildly out of the league of anything that exists in reality, but there are some interesting descriptions of the experience in the movie that give me the suspicion that the director or the author have some knowledge of nootropics. The hyper-attention to detail and being able to carefully observe and catalog things in one's field of vision, that people who respond well to 'racetams get being one of them.

Anyway, I thought this movie was overall very positive for the trans-humanist movement. I would prefer that all this all stay under the mainstream radar screen though because it seems pop culture and the mainstream media have a way of wrecking things that are as nuanced as the topic of nootropics.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 03 April 2011 - 02:31 AM.

[niner]

Very well put, Abelard. I saw the movie and found it to be great fun. It was a little hard to believe that people with four-digit IQs could be as dumb as some of them were regarding where they stashed their $800/pill noots, but still, a fun show. I agree that it was cautiously optimistic on transhumanism. Early on there was some expectation that it would lead to a flood of new people in the nootropic forum, looking for The Clear Pill. That hasn't come to pass as far as I can tell.

[Ichoose2live]

Pramiracetam would outplace NZT-45

Edited by Ichoose2live, 03 April 2011 - 03:33 AM.

[Audiomajik]

It was a fun movie with a soft sell on transhumanism. Very cool.

[Deckah]

That hasn't come to pass as far as I can tell.

I'm sure a lot of people hit yahoo answers and adderall manufacturers will be pleased. Or 1/2 of those people are now playing in traffic (gotta love yahoo answers).

http://answers.yahoo...29152619AAmrRtb

Edited by Kdvwest, 03 April 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[Ichoose2live]

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitless
Physics professor James Kakalios said it was plausible that medical science could improve intelligence, but that neurochemistry was not advanced enough for it to be possible currently. Kakalios also said the notion used in the film that human beings can only access 20% of their brains is a myth; 100% of it is used at different times. Kakalios said if such a pill existed, a person running out of the supply would actually experience a rebound effect, becoming less intelligent than before.

'Limitless' brainpower plot isn't all that crazy

Edited by Ichoose2live, 04 April 2011 - 12:44 PM.

[Guacamolium]

The movie was fairly good IMO - the ending was a bit different than I had expected, but strangely predictable. I expected a few different ending scenarios that would've made more sense to me, but I can understand why the director/screenwriter chose to end it like they did.

Anybody else notice that the fictitious molecule in question had (lol) zirconium and thallium in it? Probably put into the chemical to explain why the pill looked the inordinate way that it did (Zr), and how it was so efficient at killing people (Tl). The "30 seconds till onset of action" was too far-fetched as well, but made for some interesting plot scenarios.

All in all I think that this movies' allure to the audience was in our common yearning to find that winning formula to take us to new levels of success, intelligence-wise.

[Duster]

In addition to many of the comments stated above, I particularly liked the color saturation that came when he took a pill; reminds me a lot of my experience with ani.

One thing that got me thinking was the Russian's method of dissolving the pill and injecting it, as opposed to ingesting it. Sticking a needle into yourself is probably a bit much for regular administration of noots, but is there an alternative (more effective?) drug delivery method that can be used for nootropics?

[fql]

I am watching this as we speak. I hope my Aniracetam gets me rich and famous.

Edited by juryben, 04 April 2011 - 10:09 PM.

[rwac]

Very well put, Abelard. I saw the movie and found it to be great fun. It was a little hard to believe that people with four-digit IQs could be as dumb as some of them were regarding where they stashed their $800/pill noots, but still, a fun show. I agree that it was cautiously optimistic on transhumanism. Early on there was some expectation that it would lead to a flood of new people in the nootropic forum, looking for The Clear Pill. That hasn't come to pass as far as I can tell.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Didn't someone in the movie mention that it affects different people differently, and that people who were smarter to begin with would see more of an effect ?

[Duster]

Very well put, Abelard. I saw the movie and found it to be great fun. It was a little hard to believe that people with four-digit IQs could be as dumb as some of them were regarding where they stashed their $800/pill noots, but still, a fun show. I agree that it was cautiously optimistic on transhumanism. Early on there was some expectation that it would lead to a flood of new people in the nootropic forum, looking for The Clear Pill. That hasn't come to pass as far as I can tell.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Didn't someone in the movie mention that it affects different people differently, and that people who were smarter to begin with would see more of an effect ?

Yeah, but it was the dealer that said it, and he said a lot of things that didn't turn out to be so true. It really came off more like a off-hand insult, in context: "of course, it probably works better if you're smart to begin with" (implying our protagonist wasn't)

[Justchill]

Hey... does anybody know where to order that NZT ? :p

That movie reminded me alot when using piracetam... the color enhancements, the energy, the focus, the confidence, speech etc etc... and offourse the headaches and brainfogs

a very nice movie !!

[Blue22]

I don't think Piracetam is anywhere near what that pill can do unfortunately.

[aston_geek]

In addition to many of the comments stated above, I particularly liked the color saturation that came when he took a pill; reminds me a lot of my experience with ani.

One thing that got me thinking was the Russian's method of dissolving the pill and injecting it, as opposed to ingesting it. Sticking a needle into yourself is probably a bit much for regular administration of noots, but is there an alternative (more effective?) drug delivery method that can be used for nootropics?

I'm going to compare noots to heroin...
A drug that you inject delivers it effects really fast but is also more addictive. When you ingest the drug lasts longer, the takes more time to absorb it.
Forget the idea of injecting noots. It might be a really bad idea.

[Isochroma]

I watched Limitless and was almost moved to tears. Piracetam was and is my NZT and the effects shown in the movie were identical to the ones I lived. Visual clarity, saturation, contrast. A memory that worked again! Sleep that accomplished something and dreams that both horrified and enlightened. Awake every day after 8.5 hours refreshed, instead of tired. I could go on and have done so in other posts on this forum and the brainmeta forum.

All of that with zero side effects, and working well to this day after 2.5 years. If you haven't tried piracetam or another racetam then try them now

PS. Watch the movie!

Edited by Isochroma, 02 August 2011 - 12:48 AM.

[Elus]

I watched Limitless and was almost moved to tears. Piracetam was and is my NZT and the effects shown in the movie were identical to the ones I lived. Visual clarity, saturation, contrast. A memory that worked again! Sleep that accomplished something and dreams that both horrified and enlightened. Awake every day after 8.5 hours refreshed, instead of tired. I could go on and have done so in other posts on this forum and the brainmeta forum.

All of that with zero side effects, and working well to this day after 2.5 years. If you haven't tried piracetam or another racetam then try them now

PS. Watch the movie!

Oh, how I envy you, Isochroma. Piracetam tends to make me sleepy instead -- I would kill (okay, not really) for something that has such a profound effect with minimal short and long-term side effects.

[Isochroma]

Your words echo my thoughts nicely. See the post I wrote on a 'new' old racetam which hasn't been tested in humans but shows both twice the potency and new powers that piracetam doesn't have. It's called Piracetam Hydrazide and it's the best-kept secret around: Piracetam Hydrazide - BrainMeta.com Forum

Piracetam gave me my life back just like NZT did for Eddie. I'd be interested to know how much you took and with what other supplements - there's a chance that reconfiguring the setup might make it work for you too!

Personally, I think my success can be attributed to two things: the stuff I take with it - and the stuff I didn't take. Values are for total daily consumption:

What I take with it: 100mg B-complex, 7g-21g fish oil (tested to synergize), daily meat/dairy/eggs.

What I avoid: choline supplements - for the reason that many on multiple forums report that the extra choline (without cofactors and limiters as in meat/eggs/dairy) causes brainfog, depression and other problems.

A few will benefit from supplemental choline (low-efficiency recyclers) but everyone should try racetams alone first to ascertain the effect, then after a week or two if they have symptoms then try a small choline supplement and work up from there, watching for side effects.)

I also take generic mineral/vitamin supplements that likely help but aren't necessarily needed: 50mg zinc citrate, 200mcg selenium, 4000mg vitamin C, 10,000IU Vitamin A (Retinol, not carotene), 10,000IU Vitamin D (D3 - the natural form made in skin, not the more-toxic and less-effective D1/D2).

Edited by Isochroma, 02 August 2011 - 03:14 AM.

[Elus]

I've taken 2-4 grams per day max, but I've also taken lower doses. I took it with and without 1gram of choline, and also with 2 grams of fish oil.

I may give it another try, but what would you recommend?

[Isochroma]

Two grams of fish oil isn't going to make much difference - at least if you eat a somewhat 'normal' diet containing a typical amount of fat. Let me just say that only when I upped my dose from 7g to 14g and now to 21g per day that I see the full power of its synergy with piracetam - and alone too!

I've also seen less than a month ago how poorly Piracetam works with no fish oil - it's power was cut to less than half.

With fish oil it's the ratio between how much you take and the other fat in your diet. In a single burger or plate of pasta or steak there are many dozens of grams of saturated/trans/other fats. Adding 2g of fishoil isn't going to change the ratio much. If you don't believe me look at the fat content on package labels or boil up some burger and see how much fat's left floating on the top.

The fat ratio in your diet becomes the ratio in the cell membranes. My neurons respond in three days when changing from no fish oil to 21g/day. The effect is so obvious that I can justify spending $60/month on it

As for the piracetam, you can try higher or lower doses, with or without choline. Others who get fogged on piracetam tend to find that Aniracetam works for them, and those who get fogged on Ani (like me! it made me sleep every time at all doses) find Piracetam works fine.

So it seems there is a fraction of folks whose brains are wired a bit differently, and luckily there's solutions for them too - albiet more expensive ones.

Also check out your caffeine and alcohol consumption. I don't take caffeine and feel that there is a major interaction - likely indirect - between it and piracetam. I'm not talking about piracetam's well-known potentiation of stimulants here either. What I'm talking about is adrenal exhaustion induced by years of caffeine use. In experimental animals whose adrenals are removed, piracetam's effects - at least the good ones - disappear. I have the paper. The rats couldn't speak so they didn't report about brain fog - which leaves us only with experimentation.

PS. I also have the contact and PM/forum posts of a lucky guy who reported similar problems. I gave him some advice, he persisted and later PM'd back that his issues had resolved. If you want the info I'll dig it up.

Edited by Isochroma, 02 August 2011 - 03:28 AM.

[Elus]

Two grams of fish oil isn't going to make much difference - at least if you eat a somewhat 'normal' diet containing a typical amount of fat. Let me just say that only when I upped my dose from 7g to 14g and now to 21g per day that I see the full power of its synergy with piracetam - and alone too!

I've also seen less than a month ago how poorly Piracetam works with no fish oil - it's power was cut to less than half.

With fish oil it's the ratio between how much you take and the other fat in your diet. In a single burger or plate of pasta or steak there are many dozens of grams of saturated/trans/other fats. Adding 2g of fishoil isn't going to change the ratio much. If you don't believe me look at the fat content on package labels or boil up some burger and see how much fat's left floating on the top.

The fat ratio in your diet becomes the ratio in the cell membranes. My neurons respond in three days when changing from no fish oil to 21g/day. The effect is so obvious that I can justify spending $60/month on it

Hmm, okay, I can give it a go. I'll try maybe 6-8 grams fish oil with 2-4g piracetam, see how that goes, and if I see success, I can go from there.

As for the piracetam, you can try higher or lower doses, with or without choline. Others who get fogged on piracetam tend to find that Aniracetam works for them, and those who get fogged on Ani (like me! it made me sleep every time at all doses) find Piracetam works fine.

So it seems there is a fraction of folks whose brains are wired a bit differently, and luckily there's solutions for them too - albiet more expensive ones.

Also check out your caffeine and alcohol consumption. I don't take caffeine and feel that there is a major interaction - likely indirect - between it and piracetam. I'm not talking about piracetam's well-known potentiation of stimulants here either. What I'm talking about is adrenal exhaustion induced by years of caffeine use. In experimental animals whose adrenals are removed, piracetam's effects - at least the good ones - disappear. I have the paper. The rats couldn't speak so they didn't report about brain fog - which leaves us only with experimentation.

I don't consume any alcohol, I don't smoke, I don't drink much coffee (A cup now and then), I exercise, and I think I have a fairly healthy diet which I supplement with 1-2 vimmortal multis per day. I have a BMI of 17.4, if that's relevant at all. I've tried aniracetam, but it didn't do much for me.


P.S. Yeah, if you have that guy's contact and/or information you gave him, that'd be great. Thanks, Iso.

Edited by Elus, 02 August 2011 - 04:10 AM.

[Isochroma]

The post below is cross-posted from the thread "Piracetam, Fish Pills, Amphetamines, and NeuroEndocrinalogical Disorders" on this site - I'd recommend everyone read that thread too as the topic is very apropos to this one. Here's the post:

Piracetam and other racetams don't work at all - at any dose - in lab animals whose adrenals were removed. Caffeine and stimulants destroy the adrenals due to overstimulation and eventual exhaustion. Most of the populace are daily caffeine users - with a significant percent consuming so much that if it were demonized like some others substances are they would be classed as abusers.

Blockade of the nootropic action of piracetam-like nootropics by adrenalectomy: an effect of dosage

Cesare Mondadori, a, Thomas Ducreta and Friedel Petschkea

Pharmaceutical Research Department, CIBA-GEIGY Limited, Basle (Switzerland)

Received 6 June 1988; revised 14 December 1988; accepted 3 January 1989. Available online 17 November 2006.

The present experiments demonstrate that the absence of any memory-improving action of nootropics in adrenalectomized animals cannot be ascribed to an effect of dosage. Doses of 1, 10, 100, 1000 and 3000 mg/kg p.o. of piracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam or pramiracetam are ineffective in adrenalectomized mice.

Involvement of a steroidal component in the mechanism of action of piracetam-like nootropics

Since adrenalectomy abolishes the memory-enhancing effects of piracetam and its derivatives, oxiracetam, aniracetam and pramiracetam, the question arises whether endogenous steroids play a role in their mechanism of action. We show that inhibition of steroid biosynthesis by aminoglutethimide and blockade of the aldosterone receptors by epoxymexrenone completely suppress the memory-improving effects of the nootropics. These results indicate that steroids, or, more precisely, activities mediated by the aldosterone receptors, might be involved in the mechanism of action of this class of nootropics. Blockade of aldosterone receptors, however, does not block the effects of cholinomimetics on memory, indicating the involvement of another mechanism of action.

I'll find the info on the guy that succeeded - hope it's still in my files - and post it tomorrow.

Edited by Isochroma, 02 August 2011 - 04:18 AM.

[sam7777]

aldosterone deficiency and dysfunction is a dead give away for intense endocrine dysfunction. Just take my word for it, when my brain is at its worst, and my symptoms are most severe, I become "skelator, lord of the sunken eyes". Saddly, a shortage of aldosterone because of pituitary dysfunction causes you to not produce Anti diuretic hormone - resulting in serious health problems and said above issues with aldosterone. It is also interesting how artificial steroids damage cognitive function. I see some underlying patterns.

Edited by sam7777, 02 August 2011 - 05:11 AM.

[kassem23]

Yeah, but it was the dealer that said it, and he said a lot of things that didn't turn out to be so true. It really came off more like a off-hand insult, in context: "of course, it probably works better if you're smart to begin with" (implying our protagonist wasn't)

Actually not. The dealer mentioned it because he was implying that the protagonist was indeed very intelligent to begin with, and the only thing the pill did, was unlock his potential.