21 replies to this topic

[IsaacNooton]

I know that there is little hope of getting the "NZT effect" from Nootropics today but I want to get pretty close. I am fairly new to nootropics, and this forum. I have only tried Multi-vitamins (at a young age), Piracetam (which had little effect - but gave me REALLY vivdid dreams) and choline bitartrate (again with littel effect). I exercise regularly (resistance training + weekly 8 mile jog with 5kg). I would really like some advice on my stacks; dosing, toxicity, how to administer would be appreciated. Together, lets make our own NZT!!

Male, 17
Height: 163cm
Weight: 11 stones/ 69kg roughly

My current stack: 2-3 times daily - Taken with sprite or orange juice (only way the choline will go down)

• Piracetam (experimenting with doses but around 2-5g)
• Choline Bitartrate (experimenting - 3-6g)
• Fish Oil Capsules (I will add this soon and give an update)

Creatine Monohydrate (3x700mg capsules) Workout Endurance
Nutrisport Pure Whey Protein Shake - Workout Recovery

I hardly feel anything tbh. In the night I do feel a slight urge to focus on something (ANYTHING WILL DO) but no urge to revise. It gives me vivid dream when ever I go to bed early however. I have even resorted to taking TEASPOONS of this stuff only to induce the runs! It just doesnt work for me, not hit. However music (especially classical) sounds SO much more beautiful its amazing! Colours seem more vivid too.

My proposed stack: Please advise on dosing and administration

• Pramiracetam (1200mg+)For focus and concentration
• Piracetam (2000mg)
• Choline Bitartrate (3000mg)
• Sulbutiamine For motivation and mental clarity
• Phenylethylamine (1 500mg capsule) For alertness
• L-Glutamine Post workout for muscle endurance
• Acetyl-L-Carnitine For clarity
• (Hopefully medication for suspected ADD) Modafinil (200mg+)For alerness and mental clarity

I am hoping that this will help me with my laziness, short attention span and unwillingness to revise.
Is there anything wrong with my new stack?
When (time of day, before after food) and how (dissolve in juice/water/with oil caps/all together?) should these noots be taken?
Will I become dependent on my stack (addiction)?
Will it work?

Thanks in advance.

[Raptor87]

The only way of getting a better photo- memory is by training it. The only training Im aware is this.
http://www.drawright.com/ It´s a great book btw!!

Also read this!

http://ezinearticles...ivity&id=217560
http://www.brighthub...cles/83457.aspx

http://en.wikipedia...._phase_syndrome

Cant help you out with your stack but try meditation and breathing exercises for about 30min a day..

And then there is ye ol´google!
http://www.eideticmemory.org/

[IsaacNooton]

http://www.drawright.com/ It´s a great book btw!!

http://www.eideticmemory.org/

I am a little skeptical on such techniques.. but I do agree: photographic memory requires some than nootropics. However, I want to make a stack that can increase my mental clarity, focus and memory so greatly that I will be able to learn information quick enough to at least compete with photographic memory.

I have tried meditation but my concentration does suck alittle and while it does REALLY work. It takes patience and time (which I don't have much of - revising for summer exams).

I went to my doctor yesterday and we did come to a conclusion that ADD might be the case. I will have to wait a couple of weeks for evaluation to determine what kind of help I will need. Modafinil (and any amphetamine) is tightly regulated in the UK because of its effects on the body and its 'abuse' so she was not able to prescribe it for me... only a registered hospital can do that.

[IsaacNooton]

Update on Current stack:

Piracetam 2.4g (roughly)
Choline Bitartrate 2g
Peppermint Tea Half a mug full (mixed the stack in the other half which tasted $#!%)

About an hour into it, my head feels really clear. No urge to revise though which kind of suck and I have a slight headache (but its not bothersome at all) maybe due to the low choline ratio (since I don't like taking too much choline). This time, the effects actually hit (very mildly but I felt it). Going to (force myself to) revise later and see how I do.

[oblomov]

Update on Current stack:

Piracetam 2.4g (roughly)
Choline Bitartrate 2g
Peppermint Tea Half a mug full (mixed the stack in the other half which tasted $#!%)

About an hour into it, my head feels really clear. No urge to revise though which kind of suck and I have a slight headache (but its not bothersome at all) maybe due to the low choline ratio (since I don't like taking too much choline). This time, the effects actually hit (very mildly but I felt it). Going to (force myself to) revise later and see how I do.

Why the peppermint tea? It can reduce appetite (significantly), and also lower testosterone (slightly). This seems to be contrary to some of your other goals.

[spider]

From the Great Erowid Experiences Vault:

I have used just about every 'smart drug' on the market. I have tried Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Piracetam, Hydergine. Also I have tried huperzine A, Ginko, Vinpotocene, Dmae, high-choline Lecethin, Acetyl-L-Carnitin, and tons over other substances. I think I have stumbled over the perfect combination. Piracetam and its other analougs never seemed to do very much for me. Hydergine allways seemed to give me the most noticeable results so I have decided to up my dosage to 9mg a day sublingually.

My current daily regimin is; 9mg of hydergine sublingually, 1500mg of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 100mg of dmae, A multivitamin, an extra B-Complex vitamin, 420mg of choline (from soy lecethin), milk thistle for liver, and about 10 cups of green tea. This is the absolute most effective combination i have found for the money. The green tea seems to make hydergine 100X more effective. I am in another world when I take this combonation. I have incredible photographic memory, and it feels like I have transended to another level of conciousness. I really like it and just wanted to share my experiances.


Exp Year: 2003 ID: 29118
Gender: Male
Added: Jan 28, 2004 Views: 16914

I like the ergot and green tea component of this stack.

[IsaacNooton]

[/quote]


Why the peppermint tea? It can reduce appetite (significantly), and also lower testosterone (slightly). This seems to be contrary to some of your other goals.
[/quote]

Peppermint tea does a decent job of lowering my anxiety. I just feel more carefree when I drink it, really though it was just an experiment Im still trying to find the best way to take my noots for maximum effect.
Youre definitely right about the appetite... I skipped breakfast and felt great! Not good because I need energy and nutrients to suppliment my workouts :/

The effects didnt last long though, 2 hours I would say but I still have a bit of mental clarity. Will redose at 3pm GMT and update.

[IsaacNooton]

From the Great Erowid Experiences Vault:

I have used just about every 'smart drug' on the market. I have tried Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Piracetam, Hydergine. Also I have tried huperzine A, Ginko, Vinpotocene, Dmae, high-choline Lecethin, Acetyl-L-Carnitin, and tons over other substances. I think I have stumbled over the perfect combination. Piracetam and its other analougs never seemed to do very much for me. Hydergine allways seemed to give me the most noticeable results so I have decided to up my dosage to 9mg a day sublingually.

My current daily regimin is; 9mg of hydergine sublingually, 1500mg of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 100mg of dmae, A multivitamin, an extra B-Complex vitamin, 420mg of choline (from soy lecethin), milk thistle for liver, and about 10 cups of green tea. This is the absolute most effective combination i have found for the money. The green tea seems to make hydergine 100X more effective. I am in another world when I take this combonation. I have incredible photographic memory, and it feels like I have transended to another level of conciousness. I really like it and just wanted to share my experiances.


Exp Year: 2003 ID: 29118
Gender: Male
Added: Jan 28, 2004 Views: 16914

I like the ergot and green tea component of this stack.

OMG! Badass! Thank you! But that sounds like alot of noots. Do you think I could leave out the multivitamin, b-complex vitamin and milk thistle and still achieve the same results? and will DMAE and Hydergine will have the same effect on me? I heard they are not so effective in young people.

[IsaacNooton]

Stack update:

Piracetam 2g
Choline Bitartrate 2g
Mixed in shot of sprite fizzy/soft drink

30 Minutes into it I feel increased wakefulness and I generally feel more efficient. I also noticed that my typing speed has increased. have a mild headache again, I suggest this is due to my low Piracetam/Choline ration 1:1 is clearly not enough, I think I will change it to 2:3 on the next dose. Still no change in mindset or "urge" to revise. Interesting reaction - but I am making a few mistakes on the keypad...

[Raptor87]

http://www.drawright.com/ It´s a great book btw!!

http://www.eideticmemory.org/

I am a little skeptical on such techniques.. but I do agree: photographic memory requires some than nootropics. However, I want to make a stack that can increase my mental clarity, focus and memory so greatly that I will be able to learn information quick enough to at least compete with photographic memory.

I have tried meditation but my concentration does suck alittle and while it does REALLY work. It takes patience and time (which I don't have much of - revising for summer exams).

I went to my doctor yesterday and we did come to a conclusion that ADD might be the case. I will have to wait a couple of weeks for evaluation to determine what kind of help I will need. Modafinil (and any amphetamine) is tightly regulated in the UK because of its effects on the body and its 'abuse' so she was not able to prescribe it for me... only a registered hospital can do that.

I don´t know about the eidetc memory link. But Betty Edwards is recognized in the field and even a pioneer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_thinking

Picture thinking, visual thinking , visual/spatial learning or right brained learning

The Important literature on this subject includes Rudolf Arnheim's 1969 book "Visual Thinking", Robert McKim's "Experiences in Visual Thinking" (1971), and Betty Edwards' "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" (1979).

Try it out, you can probably lend it in a near by library.

You also need to understand that wont get there with a combination of pills, you need to breathe and focus on something artistic that involves picturing. You are going things about from the wrong end. Surely pills may aid you, but you need a strategy on how to develop the skill. Im voting for that book!

Otherwise there is only one option that is ingestible and I really don´t like the idea, but marijuana is used by a lot of people to induce abstract thinking so they can create e.g drawing/painting a identical pictures from a object.

Edited by Brainfogged, 22 April 2011 - 03:46 PM.

[spider]

From the Great Erowid Experiences Vault:

I have used just about every 'smart drug' on the market. I have tried Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Piracetam, Hydergine. Also I have tried huperzine A, Ginko, Vinpotocene, Dmae, high-choline Lecethin, Acetyl-L-Carnitin, and tons over other substances. I think I have stumbled over the perfect combination. Piracetam and its other analougs never seemed to do very much for me. Hydergine allways seemed to give me the most noticeable results so I have decided to up my dosage to 9mg a day sublingually.

My current daily regimin is; 9mg of hydergine sublingually, 1500mg of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 100mg of dmae, A multivitamin, an extra B-Complex vitamin, 420mg of choline (from soy lecethin), milk thistle for liver, and about 10 cups of green tea. This is the absolute most effective combination i have found for the money. The green tea seems to make hydergine 100X more effective. I am in another world when I take this combonation. I have incredible photographic memory, and it feels like I have transended to another level of conciousness. I really like it and just wanted to share my experiances.


Exp Year: 2003 ID: 29118
Gender: Male
Added: Jan 28, 2004 Views: 16914

I like the ergot and green tea component of this stack.

OMG! Badass! Thank you! But that sounds like alot of noots. Do you think I could leave out the multivitamin, b-complex vitamin and milk thistle and still achieve the same results? and will DMAE and Hydergine will have the same effect on me? I heard they are not so effective in young people.

Ha ha, no, to me it looks like a decent average stack. My newly devised anti-ADHD-PI stack is much bigger.

His stack looks pretty big on the acetylcholine-system which is probably also a factor in his result. So you probably shouldn't push dmae, lecithine, and/or alcar out.

Also, you should know that chronic usage of hydergine (ergots in general?) has been linked with cardio-vascular plaque.

[IsaacNooton]

[/quote]

Try it out, you can probably lend it in a near by library.

You also need to understand that wont get there with a combination of pills, you need to breathe and focus on something artistic that involves picturing. You are going things about from the wrong end. Surely pills may aid you, but you need a strategy on how to develop the skill. Im voting for that book!

Otherwise there is only one option that is ingestible and I really don´t like the idea, but marijuana is used by a lot of people to induce abstract thinking so they can create e.g drawing/painting a identical pictures from a object.
[/quote]

I am starting to see this :/ but to be honest I did suspect from the very beginning that it would be impossible to achieve PG-Memory with Nootropics. However if I can build a stack that can at least enhance my memory GREATLY then I will be contempt.

[IsaacNooton]

From the Great Erowid Experiences Vault:

I have used just about every 'smart drug' on the market. I have tried Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Piracetam, Hydergine. Also I have tried huperzine A, Ginko, Vinpotocene, Dmae, high-choline Lecethin, Acetyl-L-Carnitin, and tons over other substances. I think I have stumbled over the perfect combination. Piracetam and its other analougs never seemed to do very much for me. Hydergine allways seemed to give me the most noticeable results so I have decided to up my dosage to 9mg a day sublingually.

My current daily regimin is; 9mg of hydergine sublingually, 1500mg of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 100mg of dmae, A multivitamin, an extra B-Complex vitamin, 420mg of choline (from soy lecethin), milk thistle for liver, and about 10 cups of green tea. This is the absolute most effective combination i have found for the money. The green tea seems to make hydergine 100X more effective. I am in another world when I take this combonation. I have incredible photographic memory, and it feels like I have transended to another level of conciousness. I really like it and just wanted to share my experiances.


Exp Year: 2003 ID: 29118
Gender: Male
Added: Jan 28, 2004 Views: 16914

I like the ergot and green tea component of this stack.

OMG! Badass! Thank you! But that sounds like alot of noots. Do you think I could leave out the multivitamin, b-complex vitamin and milk thistle and still achieve the same results? and will DMAE and Hydergine will have the same effect on me? I heard they are not so effective in young people.

Ha ha, no, to me it looks like a decent average stack. My newly devised anti-ADHD-PI stack is much bigger.

His stack looks pretty big on the acetylcholine-system which is probably also a factor in his result. So you probably shouldn't push dmae, lecithine, and/or alcar out.

Also, you should know that chronic usage of hydergine (ergots in general?) has been linked with cardio-vascular plaque.

I got really excited about that stack... but the CV disease scares me. The reason I joined this forum was because I wanted to live LONGER! And anyway I have tried looking for hydergine FAS in bulk powder but Ive had no luck with finding it at all! And I dont think I wrong in suggesting that the hydergine is the noot thats doing most of the work in the stack :/

[Declmem]

Your Memory: How It Works And How To Improve It is also a good one to pick up. AFAIK, it sums up all the available memory techniques and gives good, concrete examples on how to use them best.

[IsaacNooton]

I will be adding 50mg of Caffeine to my current stack since it seems to work wonders for my alertness! But when it wears off I feel slightly dizzy.

[Insomniac]

What about vassopressin? Is there a source where it is still available? Why did they withdraw it from the market. It was used in a nasal spray. Now only dessmopressin is available, has any1 tried this, how does it work?

[nezxon]

I know that there is little hope of getting the "NZT effect" from Nootropics today but I want to get pretty close.

I think designing a stack that would have the effect of NZT-48 is possible, but it's definitely a complex task. Using the existing substances as we know them would require calculating exact dosages taking into account age, weight, gender, and genetic specific. And we would probably need doses that are at least somewhat outside the limits of what we currently understand to be safe and effective doses.

For example, some research indicated the the optimum dose of Piracetam in mice was 100mg/kg of body weight, which means it's possible the optimal dose for a 100kg person could be 10g/day. Definitely higher than the 2-6g the current nootropic folk wisdom often indicates.

I suspect we would, at a bare minimum, need optimal doses of all 4 core racetams, and that's a problem right now because there's not a lot of information available for optimal doses of the 3 other than Piracetam.

Still, it's a worthy endeavor so I hope we can make some progress in that direction!

[Guacamolium]

A nootropic stack for photographic memory?

L-huperzine
AGPC
Desmopressin

Pram, or any racetam really.
Pyritinol for glucose transport.

That's my biochemistry though. Your mileage may not only vary, but differ almost completely. Not really a "fun" stack to be on. Having completely "photographic" recall was way too reflective for my own comfort. It was a fun experiment though. From what I remember from the movie, NZT didn't exactly work on memory, but rather complete brain potential.

[antidrugrep]

I know that there is little hope of getting the "NZT effect" from Nootropics today but I want to get pretty close.

I think designing a stack that would have the effect of NZT-48 is possible, but it's definitely a complex task. Using the existing substances as we know them would require calculating exact dosages taking into account age, weight, gender, and genetic specific. And we would probably need doses that are at least somewhat outside the limits of what we currently understand to be safe and effective doses.

For example, some research indicated the the optimum dose of Piracetam in mice was 100mg/kg of body weight, which means it's possible the optimal dose for a 100kg person could be 10g/day. Definitely higher than the 2-6g the current nootropic folk wisdom often indicates.

I suspect we would, at a bare minimum, need optimal doses of all 4 core racetams, and that's a problem right now because there's not a lot of information available for optimal doses of the 3 other than Piracetam.

Still, it's a worthy endeavor so I hope we can make some progress in that direction!

Actually, if the optimal dose of piracetam were 100 mg/kg for mice, and assuming an average lab mouse were 20g (or 0.02kg), the optimal dose for the hypothetical 70kg man would be just under 1g/day, if one were to apply allometric scaling (which is considered by many to be the ideal for pharmacological applications). For those interested, here's a link to a pretty good primer on allometry: My link

[stablemind]

Anyone have any luck with anything that has considerably helped their visual memory? I've looked everywhere, but it doesn't seem like there's anything out there. All the racetams I've tried seem to help a lot with auditory memory but not visual memory.

[gamesguru]

Bacopa improves visual memory (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20590480).

[stablemind]

It also gives me the runs... Can't trade that with anything.