136 replies to this topic

[nootropi]

Man, several of you have such a poor functioning brain it makes me wonder if I was just born with common sense or if some of you really have the intelligence of an ape.

Let me remind the readers that:

CHINA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE FOR BULK DRUGS NEITHER IS INDIA. We already know this. The fact that JAMA proved that there are metals in a small sample indicates that there are SEVERAL MORE CONTAMINATED PRODUCTS.

Beyond-a-century.com and 1fast400 DOES NOT TEST THEIR BULK POWDERS FROM CHINA. Therefore, by ingesting them blindly, you may be endangering your life. Only smi2le.biz is reimbursing me for heavy metal assays.


, "We literally have no control over bulk drugs that enter the U.S.…These drugs can reach anyone including the president."

Chinese medicines 'still a danger'

[quote name='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1567212.stm']However, MCA checks have also uncovered poisonous heavy metals such as mercury and arsenic, and prescription only steroids which could be damaging if taken over long periods.[/quote]



However, many patent medicines manufactured in Asian countries contain toxic ingredients, such as heavy metals, as well as prescription drugs or unapproved ingredients that may or may not be identified on the label. (1,2) Some have caused serious illness in unsuspecting consumers. (3,4)

EDUCATE yourselves before it is too late. Demand that your supplement provider subject their products to a heavy metal assay BEFORE redistributing them to the general public!!!

[quote name='Professor Alastair Breckenridge']There is no reliable way for the public to identify those which could be unsafe[/quote]

YES THERE IS A SOLUTION. Only buy products from sellers that can prove to you that they subjected their products to a THIRD PARTY HEAVY METAL ASSAY.

I will do this as a service in exchange for store credit at any store, and I will upload the results here.

Only smi2le.biz will do this, so once I get the results from the tests of his products, I will upload the results here.

Stay tuned. Be careful, your life is at risk.

[nootropic]

Wise words. You have persuaded me not to anything else from BAC or 1FAST400.

[nootropi]

Click for source

To the Editor:

Asian patent medicines are one component of what are called traditional Chinese medicines. Asian patent medicines comprise multiple products, including herbs, plants, animal parts, and minerals, which are formulated into tablets, pills, or liquids for ease of use. They are widely available in herbal stores and have gained acceptance by the American public as a form of alternative medicine. However, many patent medicines manufactured in Asian countries contain toxic ingredients, such as heavy metals, as well as prescription drugs or unapproved ingredients that may or may not be identified on the label. (1,2) Some have caused serious illness in unsuspecting consumers. (3,4)

The California Department of Health Services, Food and Drug Branch, initiated a study to screen imported Asian patent medicines for undeclared pharmaceuticals and heavy-metal contamination, using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and atomic-absorption methods. Our objectives were to establish a computer data base for these products; educate the public, the herbal industry, and the medical community about the potential danger of Asian patent medicines; and provide objective information about toxicity.

Of 260 Asian patent medicines that have been collected from California retail herbal stores, 14 had labels that declared pharmaceutical ingredients, and 3 had insufficient sample amounts. Of the remaining 243 products, 17 (7 percent) contained undeclared pharmaceuticals. The most common undeclared ingredients were ephedrine, chlorpheniramine, methyltestosterone, and phenacetin. A total of 251 products were analyzed for lead, arsenic, and mercury; 9 other samples, including the 3 noted above, were insufficient for this analysis. Twenty-four products contained lead in a quantity of at least 10 parts per million (ppm) (range, 10 to 319; median, 29.8; mean, 54.9). Thirty-six products contained arsenic (range, 20.4 to 114,000 ppm; median, 180.5; mean, 14,553). Thirty-five products contained mercury (range, 22.4 to 5070 ppm; median, 329; mean, 1046); 2 of the 35 had labels that identified only pharmaceutical ingredients. The United States Pharmacopoeia limits heavy metals in most oral pharmaceuticals to 30 ppm, with lower limits for lead, arsenic, and mercury.

Of the 260 products we investigated, at least 83 (32 percent) contained undeclared pharmaceuticals or heavy metals, and 23 had more than one adulterant. The remaining products, which contained no detectable adulterants, cannot be assumed to be safe and free of toxic ingredients, in view of their batch-to-batch inconsistency, as well as limitations in our detection methods.

Richard J. Ko, Pharm.D., Ph.D.
California Department of Health Services
Sacramento, CA 94234-7320

AND THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PATENT MEDICINES!!! For peet's sake we are really dumb to be taking powder that has not been tested given that THESE POWDERS ARE NOT AT ALL REGULATED!!! DUH!!

You guys go ahead and blindly trust what may be the cause of unwarranted death. Really sharp!

[Mike M]

So what about the stuff you are taking from rizzer now that hasn't been tested, nor has it ever been tested?

Funny how you have yet to acknowledge the fact that my stuff is tested before it is sent to me. You realize almost 100% of the products you are injesting here are from china, yet you have a test on what....2 of them?

[vortexentity]

I can imagine nootropi going into the army and standing in that long line for mass vaccinations asking the med-techs for a third party HPLC test of all the vaccine in all of the viles he is being shot up with.

I am sorry but that gave me a smile to think about it.[lol]

I have never seen a third party HPLC test done on a single product in any health store or pharmacy at that companies own expense.

If they did not manufacture the product the reliability of the product and its fitness for sale went to the manufacturer or US distributor.

Not one company could stand that kind of expense from answering the concerns of every individual that wanted to have them send in product they are selling on a narrow margin for very expensive independant HPLC assay.

You bad mouth the Chineese a great deal nootropi but you have to remember they have the most populated country in the world and have an industry that is the 5th largest supplier of drugs in the entire world.

Competition is very tough on the world market and a black eye from selling contaminated goods can kill a company in any nation and that includes China.

Research on Chineese companies is not hard to obtain and records of shipments that have been found contaminated by US suppliers are not hard to obtain. The companies that import and distribute them in the US are not just a bunch of fly by nights either. Very large companies are involved and their reputations can be ruined by the sale of bad raw materials in their products. They take precautions and do testing at the distribution level. Much of it is in house but they have the equipment to do these tests and have relaible calibrated machines to perform the testing with.

I certainly can understand your concerns but you will not find very many companies willing to take you up on the independant testing challange of your's in the entire supplement industry. I say if you doubt their product don't buy it.

You just go on and on and on about this like a blackbird squaking in a field. It is just kind of repetitive and you are not saying anything new. I say if you are worried about heavy metals do some oral chelation therapy on yourself with some oral NAC or DMSA. I do this myself. You can not be certain that anything is free from contamination from metals unless you test all of your food, beverages, and everything you breath in.

You could walk into a public building and get a dose of mercury from a vapor lamp that was just broken and cleaned up just before you walked into the room. There could be contaminated dust floating into your room right now for that matter.

nootropi you should invent your own tricorder and just scan everything. It is the only way you will ever be satisfied I think. Then of course you would want to make sure your tricorder was working right. Have to send it out for independant testing for calibration. [:o]

If you think small companies will pay for independant labratory testing just to keep the blackbirds from squaking you are going to be dissapointed I think.

[scottl]

"However, many patent medicines"

Do you know what they are referring to? A patent medicine is a very specific kind of chinese herbal remedy. Are you familiar with them? If you were, you would not be surprised at the finding.

And perhaps more relevant...do you have a girlfriend?...I think we need to find you (another) hobby

[nootropi]

Once again, I have apes in my thread...go back to the jungle where you belong, okay? I do not have a budget to educate you guys in the "special education" category.

The real issue is hands off liability, okay apes? If I get sick and die, and I can prove that I got the deadly product from 1fast400, he is liable and I can sue him. So can anybody; however, products sold under DSHEA act are in a difficult category.

So if my prescription drug kills me, there is a LARGE insurance policy held by ALL major pharmaceutical companies.

1fast400 does not have enough money (and never will) to compensate me for the death of myself or a loved one; so you need to be extra careful if you are going to be trusting your life in his hands. Look at him, listen to him speak; the guy has little intelligence and has been proven to be a blatant liar, he has shipped out false products to his clients, and you can bet your life that he has sold you products with contaminants. I do not trust him at all. That is because I value my life.

Go back to the jungle with your logic, it doesen't work here.

[nootropi]

"However, many patent medicines"

Do you know what they are referring to?  A patent medicine is a very specific kind of chinese herbal remedy.  Are you familiar with them?  If you were, you would not be surprised at the finding.

And perhaps more relevant...do you have a girlfriend?...I think we need to find you (another) hobby

Do you have an MD? No, you don't. You are the doctor for the apes I guess. You are the only doctor I have ever heard of that thinks case reports are research and does not know what a double blind placebo controlled study is. Please, go back to the jungle with 1fast400 and your associates.

No, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a wife. And I care about her life not to let her interact with doctors with as little medical knowledge as yourself.

I care about my life, okay, so be it. I work hard to make sure it will last a hell of a lot longer than a so called "doctor" who buys untested powders from 1fast400 and further consumes them; and I can tell you work really hard to do your job as a medical doctor endorsing a liar like 1fast400.

You really should lay of the prohormones, Dr. Scott, they are really getting to you.

[nootropi]

[u]Rizzer replies to ME, that's all I care about[/u..

Can you ask him where my order is at, then? He hasn't responded to emails, and I've left messages, (all very polite) and his number is now going directly to voicemail. So, I'm a little concerned.

Steven

Stephen, send me a PM with your phone number (area code included) and a good time to call you. I will make a confrence call with you to Rizzer, if you would like.

[scottl]

Didn't you buy modafinil from india? Just because it is in pill and....bubble wrap form is no guarantee that it is pure. Why do you trust them?

And OK if you know, what is a chinese patent medicine? What form do they come in?

[eternaltraveler]

responding to nootropi in any way is obviously an excercise in futility. Everyone be sure to look up his stack so you can be sure to steer clear of that combination. It destroys the logic center of your brain while at the same time magnifying the hypocritical sectors of your brain many fold.

[eternaltraveler]

I'm begining to wonder if Nootropi is a plant of 1fast400 with as much business as he drives over there.

Brilliant guerilla marketing strategy.

[Mike M]

If I get sick and die, and I can prove that I got the deadly product from 1fast400, he is liable and I can sue him. So can anybody; however, products sold under DSHEA act are in a difficult category.

You'll sue me when you are dead? You don't purchase things from me, so I guess I don't have to worry about it. Luckily my stuff is tested so I don't have to worry about any of this.

1fast400 does not have enough money (and never will) to compensate me for the death of myself or a loved one; so you need to be extra careful if you are going to be trusting your life in his hands. Look at him, listen to him speak; the guy has little intelligence and has been proven to be a blatant liar, he has shipped out false products to his clients, and you can bet your life that he has sold you products with contaminants. I do not trust him at all. That is because I value my life.

hahahahahaahha. I ship products with contaminants? You are stepping on thin ground here nootropi. You keep going around saying that and you mind find yourself in trouble. You have ZERO proof, because none exist, of me sending any powders out with contaminants. I seriously suggest you reconsider the way you are talking

I still find all this funny as you continue to take in the products rizzer sent you to which you have tested 2. You take around 10 powders from him a day right? What about the other 8?

[magr]

You are getting more and more aggressive Nootropi.

Please stop bad mouthing people, keep the conversation on a constructive level.

It's really nice that you can arrange conference calls with Rizzer, just the way a business should be ran.

I have given up all hope already about my products, he ripped me off.
So it seems.
Empty promises and misleading information, my favourite.

[nootropi]

hahahahahaahha.  I ship products with contaminants?  You are stepping on thin ground here nootropi.  You keep going around saying that and you mind find yourself in trouble.  You have ZERO proof, because none exist, of me sending any powders out with contaminants.  I seriously suggest you reconsider the way you are talking

Once again, I apologize to all the readers whom have had to read this thread with the intent of ensuring their own personal safety when ingesting their supplements. I must admit that it is rather unfortunate that any person on the Internet can post here without having to submit to a standardized test for IQ of greater than that of an ape. You see, if this test was in fact implemented it would make it so this forum could actually discuss issues that have pertinence; with several apes in this forum the discussions often degenerate into neanderthal-like chest beating; I sincerely apologize for this complication.



Instead of addressing the claims of Mr. McClandless and Elrond, I will proceed with my earlier case; that is, that the supplements that we ingest need to be subjected to a third party test for metals and (at least) melting point BEFORE being sold to the general public. You see, one of the arguments of Mr. McClandless is particularly noteworthy. He stated (as quoted above) that:

You have ZERO proof, because none exist, of me sending any powders out with contaminants.

AHH, now everybody pay very close attention (Mr. McClandless always swallows fully the lead in bait): Mr. McClandless noticed (yet was unable to see the immediate implication that I would draw knowing that he would attempt to dismiss my argument based on the fact that I have no "proof") that I have no "proof" that he has sending out powders with contaminants.

Now, the counter-argument; Mr. McClandless has NO proof that he has NOT shipped out powders with contaminants. Let me remind my intelligent audience that I have proven Mr. McClandless is less than honest regarding his non-existent quality control procedures within the following discussion: Here. So, the real issue here is the fact that Mr. McClandless has not tested his powders for contaminants for metals through an independent lab.

He has simply trusted the COA (Certificate of Analysis) that came with the bulk powder he purchased from another vendor.

My point of emphasis is that while I certainly cannot prove that he HAS shipped out powders with contaminants, Mr. McClandless cannot prove that he has not.

So I ask you to consider the record of Mr. McClandless (or 1fast400) and ask yourself whether you should trust such an individual with your life. Even if you browse through 1fast400's website today, you would clearly see that several items do not even include a COA displayed at all; not that displaying a COA means anything about the product any send to customers.

As I understand several of the readers do have other obligations to fulfill, I will paste a statement from Mr. McClandless where he admits that his supplier has shipped him a product that was NOT EVEN what was indicated in the COA; this completes the proof that Mr. McClandless cannot prove that he HAS NOT sent products out with contaminants; further, based on the fact that his own supplier has provided him with a false product AND a false assay; I should rest my case here. But of interest is the fact that Mr. McClandless also admits that HE DID NOT EVEN INSPECT THE PRODUCT before shipping it out to his customers. Draw your own conclusions about Mr. McClandless, I cannot speak the self-evident too many more times, for Peet's sake.

It has recently come to our attention that a raw material supplier has sent us
L-Carnitine instead of ALCAR.  While labeled as such, with a lab assay included,
it seems someone made a big mistake.  This includes myself.  I foolishly trusted
this company.  I did not inspect the material personally, which I should have.
I will be attempting legal action against this supplier in the near future.  I
will be offering a 50 dollar gift voucher to each person that purchased this
product.  This is the first time anything like this has happened and I apologize
greatly.

How does Mr. McClandless KNOW this was the first time this has happened? He does not KNOW this! He is using his reasoning process to determine that this is the first time.

Source citation

I have contacted a third-party lab and I am going to be submitting several samples of products I have purchased; several from smi2le.biz; simply because he is going to provide me with a store voucher to compensate me for the cost of having these products assayed. Some other items I am going to have assayed that I did not purchase from smi2le.biz; however, whether I share the results of these assays with the rest of the web is contingent on whether or not the respective seller decides to provide me with a store voucher in exchange for the costs I incurred conducting the assays. I might test some powders from BAC and/or 1fast400, but if a result comes out positive for metals or does not pass the melting point assay, I will notify BAC and 1fast400 and any of the members here that I know personally. My only concern is for my life and the lives of those I care about.

Take care.

[Mike M]

Now, the counter-argument; Mr. McClandless has NO proof that he has NOT shipped out powders with contaminants

You lie, I have assays on all the powders. You are just to blind to look at them or the links I've provided you.

Let me remind my intelligent audience that I have proven Mr. McClandless is less than honest regarding his non-existent quality control procedures within the following discussion: Here. So, the real issue here is the fact that Mr. McClandless has not tested his powders for contaminants for metals through an independent lab.

You are right, I don't test them, the suppliers do. You know nothing of sourcing materials and the legal aspect of this industry.

He has simply trusted the COA (Certificate of Analysis) that came with the bulk powder he purchased from another vendor.

Wrong, it is a different assay from the chinese one. The reason I don't show all the information on the assays is because I don't want to give away my sources for each of the materials.

My point of emphasis is that while I certainly cannot prove that he HAS shipped out powders with contaminants, Mr. McClandless cannot prove that he has not.

As I've already stated, a lab assay shows I'm right. You have nothing saying I'm wrong.

So I ask you to consider the record of Mr. McClandless (or 1fast400) and ask yourself whether you should trust such an individual with your life. Even if you browse through 1fast400's website today, you would clearly see that several items do not even include a COA displayed at all; not that displaying a COA means anything about the product any send to customers.

Make up your mind. Rizzer doesn't have a COA on anything, has testing nothing and yet he is god. I have COA's posted, I don't buy direct from china, my materials are tested before I purchase them and yet that still isn't enough for you. My webguy has family in, hence the rest of the COA's not being published this week. They will all be up by next week. Anyone can email me and I'll GLADLY send them one on any product they want.

I wonder why you don't go after rizzer the same way?

As I understand several of the readers do have other obligations to fulfill, I will paste a statement from Mr. McClandless where he admits that his supplier has shipped him a product that was NOT EVEN what was indicated in the COA

That is true. We made 1 mistake. We've processed well over 100,000 orders YTD. That puts our error rate so far under 1% it isn't even funny. Mistakes happen, one of our employees screwed up and I took the blame. At least I contacted the people so they would know. I fessed up to my mistake. I'm sure all other companies would do the same.

How does Mr. McClandless KNOW this was the first time this has happened? He does not KNOW this! He is using his reasoning process to determine that this is the first time.

We have a new system for dealing with our powders, hence the problem has been removed. That is why we have 3 people that do nothing but mess with raw materials. At the time, we didn't have that.

I have contacted a third-party lab

Congrats you made a phone call. You've done nothing but send out 2 samples to have tested. How do you know the lots haven't changed? All these products are coming from china. Maybe you should test ever order you get Nootropi. I mean, otherwise you'll die. You should hold the same regard for rizzer as me. You don't, gee...wonder why?

I might test some powders from BAC and/or 1fast400, but if a result comes out positive for metals or does not pass the melting point assay, I will notify BAC and 1fast400 and any of the members here that I know personally. My only concern is for my life and the lives of those I care about.

I'll make you a deal. Pick ANY material on my site. I don't care what it is. We'll send it off to RTP Labs (a real lab) and have it tested for WHATEVER you want. If the results comes back bad or not as stated on the site, I'll gladly cut you a check for 1000 bucks. If the results come back and pass, you will make a public apology on AvantLabs and this message board stating that you were totally wrong about me and my products. You will also never mention me or any of my companies in any negative tone for the rest of your board posting life.

I will gladly pay for the testing either way.

Come on nootropi, time to nut up.

[nootropi]

I have several other things to do today. I won't reply to Mr. McClandless's defense anymore. I have proven my case to the best of my ability, given my experience.

I leave the decision making process up to the reader with whom you decide to trust your life.

Have a happy holidays. Try to do it safely as possible. I will update everybody with the results of the assays.

Take care.

[Mike M]

If safety is your upmost concern you'd take me up on my offer. Obviously, it isn't. Your ego is more important. Maybe it is because you know I'm right and you don't want to admit it.

You've been backed into a corner and you don't like it. Quite funny. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Meanwhile, you just have a mouth that never stops.

[stellar]

Let me remind the readers that:

CHINA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE FOR BULK DRUGS NEITHER IS INDIA. 

Uh....aren't Rizzers chems from China???
You've only tested a few.....therefore you don't know that ALL are safe.

[zg00]

Thank for the COA's Fast. I think nootropi has brought up a good point regarding the toxins (I've been a consumerlab.com customer, and I think it can be pretty surprising) and I'm glad your the one who decided to step up and provide them (makes me feel pretty damn good about doing/sending business your way).

[demonicprime]

Let me remind the readers that:

CHINA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE FOR BULK DRUGS NEITHER IS INDIA. 

Uh....aren't Rizzers chems from China???
You've only tested a few.....therefore you don't know that ALL are safe.

There is a thread posted about BAC and 1fast but not Smi2le. Why not nootropi?

[erics99]

Nootropi sure has danced around the facts and quite frankly is a hypocrite (putting it nicely). I find it amusing that we can't say a bad thing about a person on here, but yet Nootropi gets away with trying to damage 1Fast's business. However I don't think it will work. People aren’t that retarded to follow Nootropic's logic and hypocrisy. I will continue to purchase from 1Fast, and probably even Smi2le for that matter.

[eternaltraveler]

Nootropi how can you not take up 1fast on his offer? This is exatly what you've been wanting all along.

[unipolar_mania]

I agree, you should take up this offer.

[nootropi]

Ahh, yes, and you guys are truly lucky that I am passionate about this issue...I just saw a great movie, one I highly recommend; that is, The House of Flying Daggers. It has absolutely amazing cinematography. I also saw Sideways and Ocean's Twelve, they are not worth your time. Kinsey and The Incredibles however, on the other hand are both excellent. No, these are not pornographic movies, so the neanderthal readers need not see any of these.

Onto your your statement, stellar; I agree. After doing just a bit of research on the prevalence of contaminants in bulk drugs imported from India and China, I have decided it would exibit total irrationality to take any drugs from either country that have not been subjected to third party quality control procedures; especially considering the fact that the doses I take would only require the most minute quantities of toxins to be deadly or harmful over a period of time of say, a year.So what I have decided to do is to assay everything I ingest that is not from a repuatable pharmacological corporation from now on. I am going to be purchasing in kilogram quantities and testing each and every product for metals; as my life and the lives of those I care about is of utmost significance to me and my friends here at the Immortality Institute (as immortality is largely impossible if you ingest deadly contaminants). )

Trust if also of the utmost importance to me. I learned a long time ago never to trust anybody WITH MY LIFE who has ever lied to me; especially when that lie may be the determinant of my death or the death of those I care about. If somebody lies to me about what may endanger my life, I never trust the individual ever again. That includes lying by omission. So when any vendor who has lied to me tells me that they all of the sudden decide to play honest and act the role of Mr. Quality Control I won't take that chance anymore. This is MY LIFE I am talking about here. I personally do not care about anybody else's lives except for those that I care about. So nobody except those that want to work with me to assure the quality and freedom from contaminants in this discussion need read my further comments as you have stated quite clearly that you trust somebody that lied to me.

As I stated before, I will not share the results of any assays of products for which I am not reimbursed for the testing costs. Only Rizzer from smi2le.biz has offered to reimburse me for the costs of the metal and melting point assays. BAC and 1fast400 has not, so I have nothing to say for those of you whom choose to purchase products from these vendors. It is your life after all that is at stake, not mine, or those whom respect me or what I say, so be it.

Anybody who would like to further read up on my view, click here to read a related post.

Have a happy, safe, contaminant free holiday.

Take care.

[jokerace]

Nootropi -

I believe that 1fast400 just offered to pay to test whatever you wanted from his inventory and further offered you $1000 plus a public apology if his stuff turned up contaminated.

You have chosen to ignore the offer twice.

I don't ever want to hear anymore garbage from you again. I am speaking for myself but I can guess that my sentiments are felt by most.

You are a twisted individual who hides his true motives by continously stating another! You have lost all credibility.

[nootropi]

Nootropi -

I believe that 1fast400 just offered to pay to test whatever you wanted from his inventory and further offered you $1000 plus a public apology if his stuff turned up contaminated.

You have chosen to ignore the offer twice.

I don't ever want to hear anymore garbage from you again.  I am speaking for myself but I can guess that my sentiments are felt by most.

You are a twisted individual who hides his true motives by continously stating another!  You have lost all credibility.

Hello Jokerace,

That is okay if I have lost credibility; I have never sought to earn anybody's credibility. I am not here selling anything. Please go ahead and purchase your supplements at 1fast400. I have absolutely nothing to lose if you do. I will not be the one suffering; and those whom I respect and myself won't be either.

Sorry I cannot satisfy your conspiracy theory about my motives; if they did exist, then could you please present the proof (as I have proven Mr. McClandless has been dishonest about his quality control procedures)? Thank you. Once you present the proof, I will address the remainder of your comments and their implications. Until then, have a safe holiday.

I often find myself repeating the same things over and over again to some of the individuals in this forum. I will, however, repeat myself to you yet again: I never will trust anybody who has lied to me with my life. Especially with my life-extension supplements.

[eternaltraveler]

What proof are you talking about? All you have done is build up a good case for libel against yourself. The only reason you probably won't get sued is because you are so over the top that you are actually driving business too 1fast

1fast admits that he had a problem once where two products were mixed up. He admits this openly and publicly, and has since taken steps to ensure the same problem does not come up again.

You will undoubtably continue this thread for many pages so people don't look at this page where your hypocricy is shown for what it really is.

[zg00]

This thread has become venomous beyond reason. If anything what you have established is that of the 3 vendors you've questioned 1fast400 seems to be both the most responsive and the most careful. Importing your products directly from India or China would likely be much more cost effective, after all, the very tests your asking for would increase that cost that would be past on to the vendor. Apparently 1fast400 thinks that testing (and obviously safety) are important. Before this thread they were just a faceless retailer to me, after I feel quite different.

I appreciate your loyalty to rizzer, but it seams like your letting your feelings in this matter cloud your behavior. In fact while I've been reading your posts recently I can't help but wonder if something in your stack is having a toxic reaction with you. High dose short term use of stimulants has made me...disagreeable in the past.

Be well.

[Mike M]

Face it nootropi, I've given you the chance to prove that your fight for purity issues was more important than your fragile ego. Yet, in the end, you are more worried about me being right (which you know I am), than any BS safety issue you've brought up. It would just kill you to have to recant all those statements you've made the past 2 months. I knew you were a fake all along.