136 replies to this topic

[shpongled]

Adam, if the safety of others is really your principal concern, what do you have to lose by taking Mike up on his offer?

If you don't, it proves how empty your words are, and that you are just being slanderous. If you do, you are going to have to admit that you were wrong. Looks like you're pretty screwed.

[dopamine]

Nootropi -

Your discussions for the last several months have been primarily about product purity. You have accused 1FAST400 of selling contaminated products. That same company has now offered to re-imburse you for product testing - yet you completely ignore that offer in all of your replies.

If product purity really is your primary concern, then step up and prove it.

[scottl]

Sigh...you win. You were correct.

Not only has a large fraction of the energy of this forum been tied up by replying to Nootropi, but one of the sharper people at Avant told me that he totally avoids this place since Nootropi has free run here (unlike avant where nootropi usually knows better then to "go off" as there are too many people there to keep him in line).

[goddess]

Adam, if the safety of others is really your principal concern, what do you have to lose by taking Mike up on his offer?

If you don't, it proves how empty your words are, and that you are just being slanderous. If you do, you are going to have to admit that you were wrong. Looks like you're pretty screwed.

Spot on.

[stellar]

Nootropi,
Take 1FAST400 up on his offer......

[unipolar_mania]

Nootropi,
Take 1FAST400 up on his offer......

What are you afraid of nootropi?

[nootropi]

Adam, if the safety of others is really your principal concern, what do you have to lose by taking Mike up on his offer?

If you don't, it proves how empty your words are, and that you are just being slanderous. If you do, you are going to have to admit that you were wrong. Looks like you're pretty screwed.

Acchem; David Tolson; it is strange that you choose to reappear all of the sudden.

Let me remind the readers of David Tolson's recent negligence:

1. David Tolson made several statements regarding a false claim; namely that testing for products being sold that they CLAIM to "already know is pure." Go ahead and investigate this depeption employed and advocated by David Tolson and his associate Mike McClandless (owner of 1fast400/bulknutrition.com by clicking here. After you perform your analysis of labelclaimstesting.com you will clearly see that there is absolutely NO NOOTROPICS OR LIFE EXTENSION SUPPLEMENTS that have been tested for contaminants; all they have performed tests on at this site are on trivial supplements that nobody that I know or care about ingests. They have abosolutely no proof that their Chinese imports are free from contaminants. Whenever a supplement is imported from China (EVEN WITH A COA), it still needs to be tested for contaminants, as I have already proven that even prescription drugs from China have dangerous chemicals. 1fast400 has only taken integrity away from this business by having such a deceptive campaign to make it APPEAR as if they care about purity; when in fact they do not; further they are so ignorant as to trust COAs from China and presume that I am so stupid (maybe they think I take prohormones too) that I would not make the simple correlation that any rational human would make that there are NO NOOTROPICS OR LIFE EXTENSION SUPPLEMENTS that have been tested at this labelclaimstesting.com website, as I have already proven. NOBODY cares about the result of PEANUT BUTTER POWDER, Chef Jay's Tri-O-Plex Bars, SAN Tight!, Biotest Hot-Rox, or Syntrax Guggulbolic! Look at what a fool David Tolson thinks I am! Sorry, David, but you have lost my trust and respect by participating in this deception.

While offering to pay for independent testing is good from a business standpoint for a small, nonestablished company, it isn't really for a bigger company like 1Fast/BN, as we would just be paying for testing for a product that we already know is pure. We already get many of the powders tested by a third party to begin with (any time the purity is in question). Mike has also paid for independent testing of many other supplements from other supplement companies, most of which we sell (see http://www.labelclaimstesting.com). There is certainly a lot more quality control going on than most of the competitors: products are tested by a third party before they are sold. And, just try asking BAC for a COA. Not saying there aren't plenty of good reasons to support a company that offers to pay for testing, and also to support small/growing businesses, I just think that 1fast has helped a lot in establishing more integrity in the industry, which shouldn't be discounted either.

2. Another example of David Tolson's medical ignorance and poor medical judgement can be seen by reading the following thread (from which I have taken the following quotation):

I know little about this drug, but from the information you posted, it looks as though it would make you feel like shit, especially if you weren't manic or schizophrenic.

Ahhh, medical ignorance. David is correct; he knows little about this drug. A more accurate statement is more like he knows NOTHING about this drug. David; you should really stick to what you are best at; that is; summarizing other peoples work; your original thinking I have proven twice in this post to be first deceptive (in the first instance) and second blatantly incorrect.

Source of above quotation.

Proof (of ignorant statement):



Wanna admit you MIGHT have been incorrect now, Mr. Tolson? It is about time I would say.... Or would you care to read more? That is okay, I still will be your friend...



[tung]

Onto the remainder of the members statements (which I will briefly summarize and paraphrase):

"Hey nootropi, this guy 1fast400 all of the sudden wants to play Mr. Quality Control! Why don't you trust him?"

My reply is, as I have already stated (twice so far): I will never trust anybody with my life who has every tried to decieve me. Especially with respect to my life extension supplements. I already stated that I really am not concerned with those of you whom have decided to trust Mr. McClandless. Happily, my life (and the lives of those I care about) will not be endangered if you choose to trust Mr. McClanliar. That is your choice, not mine. I have nothing to lose. You could lose your life.

Best wishes for the holiday season. With regards to my being attentive in all related discussions; if you would like to fully participate and reply to all discussions in which "nootropi" is invovled, you will have to deposit $100 USD per hour of my time. Nootropi has other, more pertinent, important issues to investigate than these trivial concerns. I will be notifying my friends here of the results of the assays that I am submitting tomorrow to Analytical Labs in Anaheim. Until then, it would do you better to just take 1fast400 for his word, I will not sit here and try to convince you of the self-evident truths apparent to anyone with IQ above that of a neanderthal. As a recommendation of good faith, I will provide the neanderthal population in this discussion with a link to where you can learn more about your native language: click here.


Take care.

[scottl]

Nootropi,

You have not answered the question, and have no intention of doing so. You are wasting everyone's time while attempting to save face.

To anyone else reading this thread,

Reading this thread at avant (particularly the poster named section 8) clarifies much:

http://tinyurl.com/49nl5

[shpongled]

Adam, your comments have nothing to do with the topic.

Page 1: "We all need to watch out for each other's health."

to:

"That is your choice, not mine. I have nothing to lose."

Regarding Label Claims Testing, no products have been tested for legal reasons for quite some time, and it was around before nootropics were big. I'm not quite sure how you think it is relevant to the issue at hand. I had nothing to do with it, in any case, nor do I have anything to do with the testing process. I live on the opposite end of the country as Mike.

In all the time you spent criticizing me as though it were relevant, you never answered my question: what do you have to lose by taking Mike up on his offer? Why have you gone from playing consumer advocate to saying that you don't care if other people ingest toxic supplements?

BTW, I will respond to the quetiapine issue later today, if I have time, on the appropriate thread. It has nothing to do with this discussion, though.

[dopamine]

Nootropi -

You are continously dodging the issue at hand: Mike has offered you compensation for testing any of his products. Even more than that, he has offered to cut you a check if the results show impuritites. If you really believe what you yourself have been saying for the last several months, you would take him up on his offer.

This is ridiculous - you finally got what you wanted and now your too scared of being proved wrong to take action. It's pathetic.

[lynx]

This thread is a very good example of the dangers of dopamine agonists for breakfast and antagonists as a midnight snack.

[stellar]

This thread is a very good example of the dangers of dopamine agonists for breakfast and antagonists as a midnight snack.

lol.

[nootropi]

I no longer will make any personal recommendations about where I think one should or should not purchase nootropics or life extension supplements exempt from the liable direct suppliers in the United States. The record speaks for itself. If the reader has determined that my statements are inconsistent then that is my fault; but I take no responsibility in the effects of anybody’s choices therein. I suggest everyone do what I am going to do henceforth; that is, purchase supplements in kilogram quantities ONLY and have those of questionable origins assayed for metals and melting point.

My interests were at one point to ensure that everybody at The Immortality Institute be convinced that they should not ingest a supplement unless you provided with thorough documentation (proof) and are unduly convinced that the product has been subjected to a third party USP assay for metal content as well as a melting point assay. This interest remains; however, I have decided that it remains most cost efficient for me to only assay the products of smi2le.biz, as I can offset the labor costs of obtaining many hard to obtain chemicals to him; as he will exchange his products with me in exchange for the costs of having the third party analyses conducted.

Have a happy holiday!

P.S. If you have the free time, go see Ray; it is an excellent movie.

Edited by nootropi, 20 December 2004 - 08:10 PM.

[dopamine]

Adam -

You have accused 1FAST400 of selling contaminated products and have stated that people may die from taking them. You say this is the case because 1FAST400 doesn't allow it's customers to assay products in return for store credit. Mike has told you that he will compensate you for the cost of an assay on any of his products. This is exactly what you said they should do all along - now they are offering to do it. You say that it remains "most cost efficient" for you to assay products only from smi2le, but that goes entirely contrary to what you have been ranting about for the past several months.

I'm sure you dont think 1FAST400's products are contaminated, because if you did then you would assay their products and prove yourself right. Obviously, you felt threatened by Mike and decided to wage a war of words against his business. But when it's time to step up and take some action consistent with your words, you shrivel away onto the sidelines - still yelling and cursing but scared to death of being proved wrong.

[stellar]

I no longer will make any personal recommendations about where I think one should or should not purchase nootropics or life extension supplements exempt from the liable direct suppliers in the United States. The record speaks for itself.

The "record" is incomplete. You've been complaining this whole time about 1FAST400, now he offers you the opportunity and you don't want to push forward? If you have any type of intellectual honesty you will do exactly what you've been pushing for this whole time.
Come on, what do you have to lose??

I suggest everyone do what I am going to do henceforth; that is, purchase supplements in kilogram quantities ONLY

Can anyone here tell me that they can afford to purchase their *entire* supplement regimen in Kg quantities?
For me, it would look something like:
1Kg Piracetam, 1Kg Aniracetam, 1Kg ALCAR, 1Kg R-ALA, 1Kg Huperzine, 1Kg Vinpocetine, 1Kg Taurine, 1Kg Glutamine, 1Kg EGCG, 1Kg Bacopa, 1Kg NAC, 1Kg Inositol and on and on and on......I wonder how much that would cost me?? LOL

[Mike M]

The vino alone would be a little over 2k

[lynx]

I no longer will make any personal recommendations about where I think one should or should not purchase nootropics or life extension supplements exempt from the liable direct suppliers in the United States.  The record speaks for itself.  If the reader has determined that my statements are inconsistent then that is my fault; but I take no responsibility in the effects of anybody’s choices therein.  I suggest everyone do what I am going to do henceforth; that is, purchase supplements in kilogram quantities ONLY and have those of questionable origins assayed for metals and melting point. 

My interests were at one point to ensure that everybody at The Immortality Institute be convinced that they should not ingest a supplement unless you provided with thorough documentation (proof) and are unduly convinced that the product has been subjected to a third party USP assay for metal content as well as a melting point assay.  This interest remains; however, I have decided that it remains most cost efficient for me to only assay the products of smi2le.biz, as I can offset the labor costs of obtaining many hard to obtain chemicals to him; as he will exchange his products with me in exchange for the costs of having the third party analyses conducted. 

Have a happy holiday! 

P.S.  If you have the free time, go see Ray; it is an excellent movie.

Adam,

The syntax, vocabulary, spelling and logic are wrong in almost every sentence.

For example, what is "unduly convinced". In your attempt to sound like a dispassionate legal scholar, you have produced a fine word salad.

[stellar]

What a monumental waste of time this has been......

[goddess]

1FAST400 wins. Game Over.

[hyoomen]

In all fairness, I think we can agree that there are some very DEFINITE concerns being expressed in this and other threads by a variety of people. Specifically, the concerns of safety/purity of foreign-sourced nootropics (and research chemicals, supplements, etc) are quite valid, regardless of the passive-aggressive motivations of some of those people expressing them.

Perhaps it is necessary to publish a small FAQ on assuring one's own safety when ordering various substances. It would be beneficial to have such a FAQ, detailing how to submit a substance to a lab for analysis, a list of labs, possible costs, and recommendations (which may or may not be common logic/knowledge) for ensuring that such lab tests are not wasted (ie doing one test on one batch and believing that all future supplies from the same company are equally pure). It might even be useful to offer a graduated assessment of various safety tests (COAs as provided by manufacturers vs. analyses done by resellers vs. third-party analysis as selected at random from personal amounts by end-consumers). Some very basic information could be included about what deals various suppliers might offer (for example smi2le's famed cost-of-analysis-in-exchange-for-product). None of this would merit alarmism, but a very factual series of Q&A and examples about concerns of safety (perhaps as listed on Consumer Lab's site or something of that nature) actually couldn't hurt.

I'd like to appreciate all of the people who contributed to this idea, regardless of their personal motivations. I'd be willing to compile such a list if nobody else is up to the task, but I ask that such a document be the final statement on the matter unless anybody comes up w/ definitive evidence of tainted supplies. Let's put this silliness behind us and make some lemonade.

[lynx]

I think a list and FAQ are a great idea.

[jpars82]

Not to mention calling people apes and neanderthals? I suppose you are a genius? What has this forum come to? You are constantly out of line Nootropi. You should take a vacation and calm down.

[goddess]

Not to mention calling people apes and neanderthals? I suppose you are a genius? What has this forum come to? You are constantly out of line Nootropi. You should take a vacation and calm down.

He should have been banned like I said.

[geigertube]

Has anyone ever figured out what the odds are of actually getting a tainted product? Are we talking greater than/less than the odds of getting struck by lightning here?

I'm just wondering if spending all this time and money on finding contaminants might be the equivalent of purchasing meteorite shielding for your house.

Steven

[eternaltraveler]

Has anyone ever figured out what the odds are of actually getting a tainted product? Are we talking greater than/less than the odds of getting struck by lightning here?

I'm just wondering if spending all this time and money on finding contaminants might be the equivalent of purchasing meteorite shielding for your house.

Steven

I'd say the chances of getting something contaminated that comes directly from china is a good risk to avoid. Supplements that have a COA from within the United states should be fine. 1fast's supplements have COAs from within the US. Smi2le should just send each batch he gets in to be analysed, then he can post the COA on his site. The store credit thing was a nice idea, but you can't be sure unless you test it every time you buy, and it creates potential legal problems, not to mention it would certainly bankrupt smi2le if many people took advantage of the idea.

If you're taking a couple grams a day of ALCAR or RALA or something purity is a legitimate concern, for small dose idems I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Mike M]

The only reason we can get things tested is because of the volume we buy in. If you look back at the tyrosine coa that was for 500 kilo's of material. We source materials for other companies as well. I would imagine small sites buy it 25kg at a time. At that amount, it would be cost prohibitive to test and sell at the prices some of these sites sell at. It would be a cost they would absorb, not the suppliers.

[eternaltraveler]

He should have been banned like I said.

I don't think he should be banned. Everyone just take a deep breath and count to ten

Nootropi does have a lot of good things to say here too.

Nootropi if you can refrain from talking about smi2le or 1fast for awhile I think all of the problems would go away. This includes inuendo.

Then we can all be one big happy family [thumb]

[eternaltraveler]

The only reason we can get things tested is because of the volume we buy in. If you look back at the tyrosine coa that was for 500 kilo's of material. We source materials for other companies as well. I would imagine small sites buy it 25kg at a time. At that amount, it would be cost prohibitive to test and sell at the prices some of these sites sell at. It would be a cost they would absorb, not the suppliers.

Yes, however this is still true if smi2le allows all of his customers to do the same thing.

[goddess]

Then we can all be one big happy family

Aw, that sounds nice.

Nootropi if you can refrain from talking about smi2le or 1fast for awhile I think all of the problems would go away. This includes inuendo.

Do you think you can manage to do this nootropi?

[scottl]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as...being unkind....but I suggest you read the post by braindrain near the bottom of page 2 of this thread:

http://forum.avantla...30