136 replies to this topic

[nootropi]

Here is a copy of the email I just sent to Beyond-a-Century requesting disclosure of the products which came from India and/or China and have not been subjected to third party testing for contaminants:

Hello Beyond A Century,

I am a customer of yours.

Recently it has been established that several imports from India and/or China have been found to contain potentially harmful levels of contaminants; namely those articulated in this month's (December 15, 2004) JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association).  Click below for the article.

http://jama.ama-assn...ort/292/23/2868

Among the supplements that had detectable levels of contaminants is also a product I purchase from you; namely Shalijit.  I am by no means whatsoever intereseted in anything other than for you to disclose which of your products that you currently are selling are imported from China and/or India without being subjected to a third-party test for contaminants.  So if, say, you carry in your inventory, a product which you purchased NOT from a source in the United States, whom have already subjected the respective product to an assay for contaminants, I would like to know which ones so that I can purchase them elsewhere. 

Please understand that this communication is not at all intended to be threatening.

I am merely concerned for my safety, as I am sure you are for yours and the remainder of your customers.

I only want for you to disclose which products DO come from China and/or India and are not subjected to third party testing for contaminants.  If you purchased an item that  ONLY was shipped with a COA, and not subjected to a third party test, I also want to know, as often a COA is not representative of the true integrity of A product. 

Once again, this is not a message with any intent.  I just want to not be taking anything that MIGHT be harmful to my health.  Considering the results of this study, I have seriously evaluated whether it is really safe or not to be taking supplements if they are not subjected to third party evaluation for contaminants.

Please see the following:

1.  This post at the Immortality Institute.  It shows the contaminants found in some herbal supplements, as well as the levels found.

http://www.imminst.o...f=169&t=4834&s=

2.  This post. at the Immortality Institute.  I have pasted a copy of this email to you there and will share the reply I recieve from you there as well.  Many of your customers reside in this forum, so I suggest you reply.

3.  This post is also at Avantlabs forums:

http://forum.avantla...ST&f=41&t=14130


Thank you for your time and consideration.

Edited by nootropi, 16 December 2004 - 08:56 PM.

[nootropi]

Here is a screenshot of the JAMA abstract:

Attached Files

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[nootropi]

I have not yet recieved a reply from Beyond-a-century.

I want everybody here to write them an email demanding a response; our health it at risk and they need to disclose if their sources are questionable.

Here is their email: nutrition@beyond-a-century.com

You may simply copy the contents of my post below in your email.

Hello Beyond A Century,

I am a customer of yours.

Recently it has been established that several imports from India and/or China have been found to contain potentially harmful levels of contaminants; namely those articulated in this month's (December 15, 2004) JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association).  Click below for the article.

http://jama.ama-assn...ort/292/23/2868

Among the supplements that had detectable levels of contaminants is also a product I purchase from you; namely Shalijit.  I am by no means whatsoever intereseted in anything other than for you to disclose which of your products that you currently are selling are imported from China and/or India without being subjected to a third-party test for contaminants.  So if, say, you carry in your inventory, a product which you purchased NOT from a source in the United States, whom have already subjected the respective product to an assay for contaminants, I would like to know which ones so that I can purchase them elsewhere. 

Please understand that this communication is not at all intended to be threatening.

I am merely concerned for my safety, as I am sure you are for yours and the remainder of your customers.

I only want for you to disclose which products DO come from China and/or India and are not subjected to third party testing for contaminants.  If you purchased an item that  ONLY was shipped with a COA, and not subjected to a third party test, I also want to know, as often a COA is not representative of the true integrity of A product. 

Once again, this is not a message with any intent.  I just want to not be taking anything that MIGHT be harmful to my health.  Considering the results of this study, I have seriously evaluated whether it is really safe or not to be taking supplements if they are not subjected to third party evaluation for contaminants.

Please see the following:

1.  This post at the Immortality Institute.  It shows the contaminants found in some herbal supplements, as well as the levels found.

http://www.imminst.o...f=169&t=4834&s=

2.  This post. at the Immortality Institute.  I have pasted a copy of this email to you there and will share the reply I recieve from you there as well.  Many of your customers reside in this forum, so I suggest you reply.

3.  This post is also at Avantlabs forums:

http://forum.avantla...ST&f=41&t=14130



Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you very much. We all need to watch out for each other's health.

[Mike M]

You just emailed it today didn't you?

[nootropi]

You just emailed it today didn't you?

Yes, I just emailed it today. Life is precious.

[Mike M]

You can't be mad at them because they haven't responded in 2 hours. Why don't you give them a little time.

[Mike M]

You must not buy enough from them. I'm sure you are a low margin customer. They don't have to respond to you. They don't have to tell you anything. This is what you said when rizzer didn't respond to anyone.

Funny how you don't get a response within 2h and go crazy. Yet you'll defend rizzer to his grave and he responds to nobody.

Oh the irony.

[nootropi]

You must not buy enough from them.  I'm sure you are a low margin customer.  They don't have to respond to you.  They don't have to tell you anything.  This is what you said when rizzer didn't respond to anyone.

Funny how you don't get a response within 2h and go crazy.  Yet you'll defend rizzer to his grave and he responds to nobody. 

Oh the irony.

Look 1fast400, I hate to put it to you in "jive talk," but your brain is far too full of hot air to put it any other way. You lost your brain a long time ago; it's too late to save it.

Rizzer replies to ME, that's all I care about. If BAC does not, the solution is clear: I won't do business with them and I will do my very best to make sure nobody else does; for our own health's sake.

[Mike M]

You do realize how absurd your actions are considering you haven't given them 24 hours to respond?

[nootropi]

You do realize how absurd your actions are considering you haven't given them 24 hours to respond?

As I have already stated to you; you really need to slow down. If my demand is recognized AT ANY TIME, (like for example, if you were to actually implement reputable quality control procedures that can be verified instead of blatantly lying to the general public) they will be honored for doing so. AT ANY TIME.

So there is absolutely no absurdity in DEMANDING this information, as it should already be supplied. As I have stated before, this is self evident to the members here.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH. THIS IS THE IMMORTALITY INSTITUTE. Get it?

[Mike M]

Where is Rizzer's posting of these assays?

[nootropi]

Where is Rizzer's posting of these assays?

Ahh, thank you for the lead in:

I am in the process of getting quotations. Thus far, Analytical Labratories in Anaheim has presented me with the following quote:
7 tests:

$1475
L-carnosine
Piracetam
Oxiracetam
Aniracetam
Acetyl-l-cartinine
Pyritinol
L-Theanine

I am seriously considering this quote. IBC wants $165 for metal contaminants, $50 for melting point, and $165 for purity. I was thinking, just for efficiencies' sake, to go with IBC at $215 a test so 7 tests would cost $1505 ($165 metal contaminants + $50 melting point = $215 per test*7= $1505). IBC was supposed to get back to me today. I have not yet heard back. I will wait until tomorrow afternoon to hear back from them. They referred me to a different representative who quoted me these new prices. The first assay I did with them cost $165 and they ran purity, melting point, and metals for $165. They just changed their price, and I was inquiring why exactly, so I did show them this forum (namely page 11 of "smile horror story," so they saw your post where you indicated that you had pressed a lawsuit contra IBC, so they might think (I hope not) that I would pursue similar charges over trivial issues.) I wanted the rep to see how serious I am about making sure that the supplements that I ingest are safe. I probably will stick with IBC because they have been good to me so far.

Please refer to this post for the citation

HOWEVER, 1fast400, your deflection is a clear indication that you are admitting that you have been "less than honest" with the members of this forum regarding your non-existent quality control procedures. Further, your continual, consistent, blantant lies has ruined your credibility among the life-extensionists here. Rizzer, however, on the other hand, is still standing behind his promise to reimburse me with product; which is far less than you have done for the life-extension community (that is, except for potentially shortening our lives for the sake of your pocketbook )

[zg00]

I'd like to know the results to any testing (as well as the answer to origin). But lets not have a fight about this. Thats not going to help any of us.

[nootropi]

I'd like to know the results to any testing (as well as the answer to origin). But lets not have a fight about this. Thats not going to help any of us.

I just got off of the phone with Anaheim Labs; I will be working with them.

Please: everybody, send emails to beyond-a-century about origins. You can copy what I wrote.

[Mike M]

I find it funny you didn't respond in the other thread where I posted the assay you asked for. Yet you come over here and fail to mention it. Rizzer isn't doing the testing you are.

[stellar]

I can understand trying to test 1 or 2 products, which you did Nootropi. Why would an ordinary individual wish to spend almost $1500 just to have an assay done on all those other products? (Yes, I understand the whole store credit thing....but still, $1500?)

It does seem odd to me the sudden "urgent" targeting of Beyond-A-Century in this thread. They've been in business for 20 some years, I trust them.

Finally, I have to say that I was laughing my ass off over the gyno comments that were made over at Avantlabs.

[Mike M]

Especially since the gyno comment had nothing to do with his argument. Usually what you have to do when you have no legit ground to stand on.

[scottl]

Stellar,

"Beyond-A-Century...They've been in business for 20 some years"

They have excellent customer service (Ive ordered from them myself) and are very helpful when you call them on the phone. But if you read the avant threads there are some questions which were raised. Paul Wakfur (morelife.com) also does not use them any more...details are on his site.

And no, LOL I really am not a 1 fast stooge.

[nootropi]

I find it funny you didn't respond in the other thread where I posted the assay you asked for.  Yet you come over here and fail to mention it.  Rizzer isn't doing the testing you are.

Mr. McClandless; let me remind you (as we have already shown how forgetful you are): I do not make a penny discussing nootropics. We also know that you do not ingest nootropics; we also know that you ingest large doses of prohormones, to increase your blood levels of testosterone I presume. I tried to warn you that this could be a cause of gyne; and I have attempted to educate your associates at the avantlabs forum of this as well of this fact. Let me ask you: do you feel manly, naturally? It is okay to be honest with me. I understand how some people might need "extra" manliness. It is okay, I still accept you for who you are. I just can't relate to some of your needs. I guess I am, well, naturally endowed with manliness. Sorry, I cannot impart on you manliness, you will need to stick to your prohormone regimen. But like I have warned you (and I am repeating myself again) that prohormone use may make you grow breasts, in a condition doctors call: gynecomastia :

Gynecomastia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Gynecomastia (gynaecomastia BE) is the development of abnormal breast tissue on men, small or large, and normally on both sides. The term comes from the Greek gyne meaning "woman" and mastos meaning "breast". The condition is common in adolescent boys, though in 90% of such cases the symptoms disappear in a matter of months to a few years at most; it may also occur in males of advancing years. It is generally a result of an imbalance in hormones, though there are many different possible root causes. Gynecomastia is not simply a buildup of adipose tissue but includes the development of glandular tissue as well. It may take a softer form or include a form of lump-like gland, which should not be confused for cancer.

Now, on to more repetition (I hope you understand this time): I do not make a penny discussing nootropics.

I only post messages in discussions which I consider productive. Therefore, I rarely post at the avant labs forum, as there are several degenerate discussions which I simply do not engage in due to the lack of, well, what I consider intelligent discourse.

If you would like to transfer some funds from your account to mine, I might just consider answering your repetitive questions. I would use these funds to test your products for toxins, as you still neglect the necessity of ensuring that you are not endagering those whom ingest your products.

Or I might consider testing Beyond-a-century's products with these funds. I'll let you know if you decide to go forward with employing me to attend to your "special" needs.

[zg00]

This...is a conversation turned ooogly.

[Mike M]

We also know that you do not ingest nootropics

I take neurostim about 2-3x per week.

we also know that you ingest large doses of prohormones

I've never taken a prohormone or steroid.

If you would like to transfer some funds from your account to mine, I might just consider answering your repetitive questions. I would use these funds to test your products for toxins, as you still neglect the necessity of ensuring that you are not endagering those whom ingest your products.

My products are tested for toxins and as someone already pointed out, the source you site doesn't even mention items from china, it is from india.

[geigertube]

[u]Rizzer replies to ME, that's all I care about[/u..

Can you ask him where my order is at, then? He hasn't responded to emails, and I've left messages, (all very polite) and his number is now going directly to voicemail. So, I'm a little concerned.

Steven

[nootropi]

Okay, I have recieved an email from BAC.

Here is the contents of their email:

We have received a number of inquiries and they have been passed on to our
owner who will be in the office on Monday. In the meantime, you may call
Erik at 800 777 1324 if you need an immediate response. Warren will also be
available via phone on Monday.

They responded quickly and appropriately in my opinion.

This shows integrity. So far, hats are still off for BAC.

I tried to inform them that I am only concerned for my health.

I am not like this 1fast400 guy all pumped up on prohormones getting testosterone-induced delusions threatening lawsuits of trivial natures.

Can you now see how when a group of humans SOLELY CONCERNED FOR OUR HEALTH work together, we can get good things done?

I will keep everybody updated. Safety is primary concern #1 with me. [thumb]

[nootropi]

Hello:
Although this is not a complete list, we can verify that the Shilajit comes
from India. An in house (supplier) certificate of analysis confirms that
heavy metals
comply with in house specs at NMT 20 ppm; lead NMT 10 ppm; arsenic MNT 1
ppm

I still want to know ALL of the products that come in from a China AND India that have not been tested by a third-party laboratory for metals; from now I on I won't take it unless I test it. I do not want to find out later that I have been unknowingly endangering my life. Life is far too precious to me.

[Mike M]

So you are taking their word that they did this testing? No actual proof? Nootropi, I'm shocked.

[nootropi]

So you are taking their word that they did this testing?  No actual proof?  Nootropi, I'm shocked.

No, and I would be shocked at myself if I would too.

Nope, that is what their in house test said (the test provided with the product, thus "in house"). Read my posts carefully, Mr. McClandless, your awareness level is on a steady decline it seems. And let me remind you again that I do not read and participate in every discussion in every forum; only those which are productive and rational.

Take care.

[vortexentity]

I received my order from 1fast400 when they sent a replacement. Thanks. Now my orders are sent with order confirmation which should help make sure they get to me. We recently lost a mail carrier who walked off the job. Maybe he had other problems.

I noticed that you stated in your earlier post that you take NeuroStim 2 or 3 times per week. I received a sample pack of that product from your company and read the label before injesting it. I am sorry to see a mental performance formula with the entire gamut of artifical sweetners included, Aspartame, Sucralose, and Acesuflame K.

I know of course that you do not manufacture this formula but simply sell it but I would like your opinion as to just how these elements support better health, or enhance performance in humans in any way?

I do not see the benifit from these elements, and a few calories from a natural sweet source such as Maltodextrin, or Xylitol or even stevia would be better than injesting these artifical sweetners i would think.

I am bias I guess since I can not handle even small amounts of aspartame without serious headache pain lasting for many hours until the substance has left my brain.

I have been very frustrated when shopping for muscle building protein concentrated due to the fact that every supplier of every popular protein supplement seems to think that they need to put artifical sweetners of some kind in their formula.

Now I see they do the same with brain formula as well.

[stellar]

I am sorry to see a mental performance formula with the entire gamut of artifical sweetners included, Aspartame, Sucralose, and Acesuflame K.

Isn't Aspartame neurotoxic?

1FAST400, why didn't you use Xylitol or Stevia?

[scottl]

Neurostim is made by scivation. 1fast only sells it.

Stevia is....little known commerically and xylitol is known for causing diarrhea, albeit in large amounts. Still not great for sales. Using a combo of 3 like that limits the side effects of any one.

Again:

http://www.thebullma...eID=6&pageID=88
http://www.thebullma...eID=7&pageID=95

by David Tolsen are worth a read.

Neurostim is very tart. Not an issue now, but was a big deal when I first tried it, so I imagine they needed to sweeten it or it would not sell. Still why not make your own better cheaper version. Tyrosine + vinpo + ALC + alpha GPC choline + DMAE (or centro) + Huperzine. The taste might not work right but one could try unsweetened cocoa + stevia or xylitol or ...BAC talks about erythritol.

Edited by scottl, 18 December 2004 - 01:18 AM.

[jokerace]

Again:

http://www.thebullma...eID=6&pageID=88
http://www.thebullma...eID=7&pageID=95

by David Tolsen are worth a read.

Again, I have to interject with my personal experience. I also get very bad headaches from artificial sweetners. In my experience, most substances that consistently cause headaches in large portions of the population (not to mention all of the other reported negative effects) are NOT GOOD for your brain. Sometimes headaches are the direct result of damage or over excitation occuring. I know what Tolson says but why would anyone take a chance when their specific goal is to PROTECT & BOOST their brain.

Stick to natural sweetners. After a month of strictly enforcing this policy I can guarantee that most people who have a regular habit of using artificial sweetners will notice improvements in mental clarity as well as probable improvements in overall health. If you have a tendancy to get headaches and you consume artificial sweetners on any sort of regular basis, consider this possible correlation.