60 replies to this topic

[rvdvaart]

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy Sulbutiamine? I searched Google and found a crazy array of prices

http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/

Link to Sulbutiamine at Relentless:

http://supplements.r...amine-p226.aspx

Thanks for the link but that's kind of expensive. Is there another website you could recommend? I was looking at Nutraplanet but they have it in powder form. I don't have a problem with the powder form unless it's absolutely disgusting like Piracetam.

[pycnogenol]

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy Sulbutiamine? I searched Google and found a crazy array of prices

http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/

Link to Sulbutiamine at Relentless:

http://supplements.r...amine-p226.aspx

Thanks for the link but that's kind of expensive. Is there another website you could recommend? I was looking at Nutraplanet but they have it in powder form. I don't have a problem with the powder form unless it's absolutely disgusting like Piracetam.

That is only website I recommend. I realize its expensive but at least you get a documented, high quality product which is more than I can say for a lot companies out there just trying to make a buck and offering dubious quality. Just my personal experience.

[golden1]

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy Sulbutiamine? I searched Google and found a crazy array of prices

http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/

Link to Sulbutiamine at Relentless:

http://supplements.r...amine-p226.aspx

Thanks for the link but that's kind of expensive. Is there another website you could recommend? I was looking at Nutraplanet but they have it in powder form. I don't have a problem with the powder form unless it's absolutely disgusting like Piracetam.

I think piracetam is one of the least bad tasting chemicals I've tried. Sulbutiamine is pretty bad tasting, either way smartpowders.com is where I got mine.

[pycnogenol]

Sulbutiamine is pretty bad tasting, either way smartpowders.com is where I got mine.

Unfortunately, the inexpensive Smart Powders does not have an independent CoA like Relentless Improvement does.

At least you know you're getting the real deal with RI.

[kassem23]

Melatonin is released by the pineal, not pituitary gland.

[Mike M]

I just forgot to send that one out. I'll send it out next week. I've been using the same supplier for 6 years and it has tested fine in the past. I'll post it up in about 2 weeks once I have it. As a note to those that don't know, I'm the owner of Smartpowders, former owner of bulknutrition and former owner of labelclaimstesting.com

[medicineman]

when dealing with ADD it i find it best to focus on Dopamine and Norepinephrine (since ADHD seems to correspond with D4.7 receptor site which resemble a D2 Receptor site which is inhibitory by its nature), i don't know what i get out of Sub because i really feel my experience was too placebo induced, marked by my previous experience with DMAE (i'll have to make a post about it's lack of harm since a lot of people seem to be against it due to a research that showed it reduced the life span in Japanese quails. you guys should look up the necessary Choline intake for Japaneses quails and then compare that to the necessity of humans, and also note that when introduced to Mice and a type of fly it was shown to increase life, gotta love how wikipedia doesn't make mention to the animals tested).

I will be experimenting with it later as i have a desire to learn martial arts and will probably take a combination of sub alongside Rhodiola rosea, ginseng, and perhaps a couple nootropics probably low dose piracetam for it's ability to "center" the brain. Though i do agree with you that sub has stimulant like effects without the flaws, i find that it takes away from the abstract thoughts i enjoy so greatly, i enjoy being aware through vigilance, but abstract thinking is what allows one to expand the awareness through mental training by both justifying and interpreting the subjective experience.

I find Sub to expand upon the primitive observational abilities especially when taken alongside piracetam for multi task observation, but this was with my first try of it, my ability to drive and pay attention to various road conditions seemed to improve, alongside my ability to register sights and people, but emptiness occupied the mind, there was no depth that came to mind until a couple hours (~4) after intake.

Now when it comes to modfinal, it doesn't work on the CNS to produce stimulant effects, perhaps indirectly, it works by mechanisms within the hypothalamus, an area of the brain associated with sleep wake cycles (which is the master gland controlling the pituitary gland, which releases melatonin, based upon external light levels and carcidan rhythms, alongside other things). It most likely does have an impact on dopamine and norepinephrine level, but compared to Adderall it shouldn't be anything comparable .

Do make note that DMAE also has a antidepressant quality, also stimulates and promotes vigilance when sleep seems to be necessary, increase muscle tone, and gives you an athletic advantage, also heightens EEG (which i believe is what we're talking about with the Sleep wake cycles), similarities?

But going back to your experience i would like to hear more of what you felt and experienced, and the cognitive aspect of it, perhaps my negative side effects would have went away with persistence on taking it. Good luck though.

what about the baby mice study? Baby mice fed DMAE and a choline free diet succumbed, thus refuting the idea that DMAE is a choline replacement agent. Another study showed a decrease in AcH metabolites in tissue when administering DMAE, which points to the same picture..... The studies are posted by me here in a thread, I cant be bothered to look for them now, but they are here alright.

[rvdvaart]

I just received my Sulbutiamine today but I haven't taken it yet. Is it safe to take with Piracetam/Choline? Does it actually help with memory or just motivation/fatigue (studying for a professional exam right now)? I have pretty bad mental fatigue during the day which I think is from Adrenal burnout/fatigue. It's supposed to help with that from what I've read.

Thx!

Edited by rvdvaart, 22 July 2010 - 02:54 AM.

[kilgoretrout]

I agree that doses of about 750mg are much more effective.

No contraindication with amphetamines in my experience. Probably neuro-protective in fact.

Screw RI... ripoff pricing.

Nutraplanet (GREAT GREAT shop) has it on sale right now. Fully potent high-quality product. I use it regularly and it DOES work, especially in the higher dose. On sale bulk powder, 30grams regular $22.99, now 14.95.

You definitely must cap it up though, and take it with something with some fat in it. Most bitter substance on earth, very sticky and VERY tough to get the taste to go away if you make the mistake of trying to take the raw powder.

[rvdvaart]

I agree that doses of about 750mg are much more effective.

No contraindication with amphetamines in my experience. Probably neuro-protective in fact.

Screw RI... ripoff pricing.

Nutraplanet (GREAT GREAT shop) has it on sale right now. Fully potent high-quality product. I use it regularly and it DOES work, especially in the higher dose. On sale bulk powder, 30grams regular $22.99, now 14.95.

You definitely must cap it up though, and take it with something with some fat in it. Most bitter substance on earth, very sticky and VERY tough to get the taste to go away if you make the mistake of trying to take the raw powder.

What does it do for you specifically? Like what do you notice?

[kilgoretrout]

I agree that doses of about 750mg are much more effective.

No contraindication with amphetamines in my experience. Probably neuro-protective in fact.

Screw RI... ripoff pricing.

Nutraplanet (GREAT GREAT shop) has it on sale right now. Fully potent high-quality product. I use it regularly and it DOES work, especially in the higher dose. On sale bulk powder, 30grams regular $22.99, now 14.95.

You definitely must cap it up though, and take it with something with some fat in it. Most bitter substance on earth, very sticky and VERY tough to get the taste to go away if you make the mistake of trying to take the raw powder.

What does it do for you specifically? Like what do you notice?

Total elimination of even the slightest sense of fatigue, mental as well as physical. Especially useful after any sort of sleep-deprivation for whatever reason... even total. If you have had an "all-nighter" for any reason, 750mg Sulbut. plus a little coffee and you feel 100% awake and normal... somehow it just totally erases ALL of the "blech/ick" feeling of lack of sleep. Pretty amazing. Or if not sleep-deprived, in general it just makes you feel extremely clear-headed, crisp, clear and awake, without any stimulant side-effects.

Outstanding substance, what a great invention.

[rvdvaart]

I agree that doses of about 750mg are much more effective.

No contraindication with amphetamines in my experience. Probably neuro-protective in fact.

Screw RI... ripoff pricing.

Nutraplanet (GREAT GREAT shop) has it on sale right now. Fully potent high-quality product. I use it regularly and it DOES work, especially in the higher dose. On sale bulk powder, 30grams regular $22.99, now 14.95.

You definitely must cap it up though, and take it with something with some fat in it. Most bitter substance on earth, very sticky and VERY tough to get the taste to go away if you make the mistake of trying to take the raw powder.

What does it do for you specifically? Like what do you notice?

Total elimination of even the slightest sense of fatigue, mental as well as physical. Especially useful after any sort of sleep-deprivation for whatever reason... even total. If you have had an "all-nighter" for any reason, 750mg Sulbut. plus a little coffee and you feel 100% awake and normal... somehow it just totally erases ALL of the "blech/ick" feeling of lack of sleep. Pretty amazing. Or if not sleep-deprived, in general it just makes you feel extremely clear-headed, crisp, clear and awake, without any stimulant side-effects.

Outstanding substance, what a great invention.

You make it sound too good to be true. Are you sure there's no side effects?

[jackdaniels]

I can vouch for kilgoretrout's comment on sub. It's great stuff. Just don't plan on sleeping close to taking it.

Edited by jackdaniels, 24 July 2010 - 01:39 PM.

[OpaqueMind]

Does anybody know if this is safe to take alongside tramadol?
I'd been prescribed it for a minor injury I suffered which seems to be subsiding, and up until now I haven't even thought about taking the two together, but because I'm starting back at the gym soon I was wondering if this combo is safe. If anyone has taken these together or has any knowledge of their mechanisms and any possible conflict I would be grateful to hear from you.

[J. Galt]

I recently started using Sulbutiamine. No results initially at SmartPowders' recommended 200mg dose, but after bumping it to the 600-900mg range and taking with a good fat source (usually fish oil), I have definitely seen results.

Doesnt do much for me under normal circumstances, but if fantastic when I brain-fogged from sleep deprivation I'm a full time university student and work 30-40 hrs/wk to pay for school, so sleep deprivation is all to common, and Sub has noticeably improved my quality of life in this regard.

I find that in cases of mental fatigue/exhaustion, sublutiamine synergizes particularly well with sublingual NADH, as well as PQQ, ubiquinol+Shilajit, GPLC and ALCAR, and Planetary Herbals' Schizandra Adrenal Complex. I can function reasonably well without sleep for three days on this stack if necessary (though adderall also helps) Sulbutiamine's pronounced synergy with mitochondrial boosting supplements (IMO) makes me wonder if it's mechanism of action might also affect mitochondrial function, particularly in the brain. Any thoughts? Has anyone encountered studies related to itsmechanism of action that address this?

As others have also experience, I initially observed a decrease in creativity and abstract thought on Sulbutiamine, but this was fully alleviated by the addition of Alpha-GPC + Aniracetam and/or Oxiracetam.

IMO Sulbutiamine synergizes pretty well with both Adderall and Dexedrine.. Subjectively, I'd say that It improves the focus and alertness-prmoting properties of adderall/d-amp, but blunts some of their euphoric aspects (if that's what you're after).

I've been taking Sub 3-4x/week for about a month with no noticeable tolerance development. Have any of you
long-time users experienced tolerance issues? If so, please elaborate.

[iago]

J. Galt: Please be careful with your lifestyle. Sulbutiamine, even modafinil, won't prevent eventual damage caused by living such a lifestyle. Seriously, your body needs sleep and a lack of it will eventually harm you in ways you wouldn't imagine. Don't mean to be condescending, if that's how this sounds, just speaking from experience.

[caruga]

Guys, you may be taking too much sulbutiamine! I mean who comes up with these figures? Presumably the people who want to sell it to you. I dose at a mere 50mg and feel an unmistakable response within 1 minute of taking it. It's no longer you half-grammers can't bear the taste. Sometimes more actually means nothing at all--I've taken up to 3 grams of l-theanine at once and felt the same or less than 100mg. Try out the dosage I've suggested and see if it works for you.

[caruga]

Interesting... I'd stopped feeling the 50mg (it only started to taper off after about a week, and dissapear completely after another week). However on my last serving, I wiped some residual powder off of the spoon and licked my fingers (<5mg would be my guess), and within 30 seconds felt the same sensation in my head that I got from sulbutiamine when I started! I don't know if this is because some of it got in sublingually, or if the correct response to tolerance is to actually lower the dose...?

[Heinstein]

Interesting... I'd stopped feeling the 50mg (it only started to taper off after about a week, and dissapear completely after another week). However on my last serving, I wiped some residual powder off of the spoon and licked my fingers (<5mg would be my guess), and within 30 seconds felt the same sensation in my head that I got from sulbutiamine when I started! I don't know if this is because some of it got in sublingually, or if the correct response to tolerance is to actually lower the dose...?

Did you take it in an empty stomach? Maybe it interacted with the food you ate, just a thought. Oral injectino usually affects you faster.

[noos]

Any update on sublingual sulbutiamine?

[tham]

Some local blog with favourable reports
on Arcalion, including Alzheimer's.

http://pharmacyprodu...4/arcalion.html

[ta5]

Any update on sublingual sulbutiamine?

But, it tastes so horrible.

[Orajel]

If sulbutiamine decreases dopamine release, why does it make you feel so good?

[bugasman]

Hey Orajel what is your dose of sulbutiamine? Do you think is easy to develop tolerance to the effects?

[Orajel]

i use 300-900mg when I use it. No idea about tolerance, people say that it causes tolerance, but I haven't experienced tolerance. Nothing about sulbutiamine suggests that it causes tolerance, but then again, nobody knows much about it. I'm curious why it makes you feel so good if it reduces dopamine

[bugasman]

Sulbutiamine is very easy to obtain here, it's OTC under the name Arcalion. I did some experimentation with it and felt nothing. How many days do you think it is necessary to feel the effects? I have some tablets here, maybe it is time to re-experiment!

I don't know why it makes you feel good. I think you already read all the articles about this drug. Can you compare the sulbutiamine high with another drug? How many hours after your first daily dose the effects remain Orajel?

[noos]

High?
The effect takes several days.

[TheBlackCat]

Has anyone else felt awful after taking sulbutiamine? I'm not sure what it is, but I get this palpable sense that I can't experience thrill. It's not crushing, it's just highly grating and all the worse when you realize that you're going to experience it for the duration. I think it might have to do with the dopamine repression?

[Orajel]

Has anyone else felt awful after taking sulbutiamine? I'm not sure what it is, but I get this palpable sense that I can't experience thrill. It's not crushing, it's just highly grating and all the worse when you realize that you're going to experience it for the duration. I think it might have to do with the dopamine repression?

I find after I take it, I feel an increase in energy and nicotine is much more enjoyable, maybe because it's robbing my brain of dopamine? the energy lasts maybe 5 or 6 hours. I took it twice a day for about 2 weeks, and the last 5 days I felt more depressed than normal. I can't say for sure if it's the sulbutiamine, but I stopped taking it and felt better. I use it infrequently now, I like having more dopamine around.


Edit: I'm reluctant to call it a high, sulbutiamine is a high in the same kind of way caffeine is a high (not at all). But it makes me feel good when I first take it, makes me feel like i'm "on". It's not the kind of thing you can take recreationally to get high, caffeine is a good comparison, however; caffeine can make me nervous and wear off quickly, sulbutiamine hasn't made me nervous yet.

Edited by Orajel, 28 April 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[bugasman]

Yesterday I was on 3.5mg nicotine patch and 200mg sulbutiamine. I perceived a incresead effect of nicotine under sulbutiamine. But nicotine alone is great. I will do some nicotine days and others only sulbutiamine to hack tolerance. Lets see what will happen.