27 replies to this topic

[NathanielZ]

I am looking for something that can permanently improve my brain power
ex: facilitate neurogenesis.

I started taking piracetam 2 days ago at 1.6g a day with 2.4g lecithin and some fish oil.
So far, I don't really feel any difference.

1. I keep reading however that people taking piracetam for many years build up a tolerence to it.
What is the cause of it?
Is it due to the channels/receptors being damaged or is it psychological(Like being addicted to a video game)

2. Does Piracetam increase the rate of neurogenesis or does it actually degenerate the brain over decades of use?

I don't want ANY substance in my system that will damage it - SHORT TERM OR LONG TERM

Edited by NathanielZ, 07 May 2011 - 12:23 AM.

[NathanielZ]

anyone?

[kache]

I don't think there are many here who tried piracetam for over a decade. :D

[Cephalon]

I can not tell about the neurogenisis but I take Piracetam for 3 years and have the same effect = not much
I just went back on adding choline (250mg bitratrate) to everydose of 2,4 g of Piracetam.
Since I buy the UCB Nootropil rather cheap I use Piracetam anyway since it has some light effect, and I think it synergizes well with other substances.
The only time Piracetam worked awsome was when I purchased a pound at smartpowders and jused +12 gramms a day.
After 3 years I can not speak of an tolarance so far ...

Edited by Cephalon, 08 May 2011 - 12:54 AM.

[truboy]

Hm, 1stly remove fish oil! I know it's one of the healthiest sups in general. But for me when i use it, i don't feel piracetam so much! Try to add 50mg of b5 to stack.

I am looking for something that can permanently improve my brain power
ex: facilitate neurogenesis.

I started taking piracetam 2 days ago at 1.6g a day with 2.4g lecithin and some fish oil.
So far, I don't really feel any difference.

1. I keep reading however that people taking piracetam for many years build up a tolerence to it.
What is the cause of it?
Is it due to the channels/receptors being damaged or is it psychological(Like being addicted to a video game)

2. Does Piracetam increase the rate of neurogenesis or does it actually degenerate the brain over decades of use?

I don't want ANY substance in my system that will damage it - SHORT TERM OR LONG TERM

[NathanielZ]

I'll try removing the fish oil tomorrow.

Also. How much lecithin should I take?
Obviously because lecithin isn't purely choline. It contains some Insinotol and some choline.
To be exact:
- 180mg choline
- 108 inositol

[Mindweaver]

Well, I'll leave it up to you to decide if my experience is any indication of neurogenesis;

I took Piracetam for 4 months. Before Piracetam administration I was able to listen to my headphones in either my left ear or right ear and was able to appreciate/comprehend what I was listening to. After 4 months of use (daily; 800mg with Alpha GPC) I am not able to truly appreciate music unless I listen to it in both headphones. I attribute this to a strengthening of the connection between my left and right hemisphere (corpus collosum) but maybe it's placebo; maybe it's always been this way and I haven't noticed.. however, I definitely used to have no problem listening to one headphone at a time and now I can't do it at all (and yes, I've tried on numerous occasions).

I also think I suffered damage from DXM abuse (10 times in 2 years, very close proximity of trips) and I think Piracetam/Alpha GPC has healed the issues.. so I can't complain.

Edited by Mindweaver, 08 May 2011 - 05:37 AM.

[sunshinefrost]

that's a good Question NathanielZ, I have the same questions and interests. I know Lion's mane/alcar may improve neurogenesis but as for piracetam reducing receptor's efficacity i don't know...

Last time i tried it for 3 months and my verbal fluency seemed to stay a bit enven if i was out of pira.

I would really suck that the corpus calloseum wears down for too much use... I hope it's more of a musle(use it or lose it) type of thing.

We'll see, i'll "bump" this post in 10 years.

[kache]

We'll see, i'll "bump" this post in 10 years.

It would be extremely cool if you remembered to do it in 10 years time (and imminst will still be alive)! :D

[sunshinefrost]

We'll see, i'll "bump" this post in 10 years.

It would be extremely cool if you remembered to do it in 10 years time (and imminst will still be alive)! :D

I have set a reminder in my iphone for may 8th 2021. Now i just need to remember to sync my old iphones with the "to be acquired in the futur " ones. By that time it should be an iphone-15....

[kache]

I have set a reminder in my iphone for may 8th 2021. Now i just need to remember to sync my old iphones with the "to be acquired in the futur " ones. By that time it should be an iphone-15....

Wow, does itunes sync also the reminders? ?_?

[rvogels1]

Piracetam is not thought to induce neurogenesis. It's not thought to have any long term benefits. The overall pattern of neurotransmission we feel when under the influence of piracetam will most likely only take place while being under the influence of piracetam, even after extensive use.

I wouldn't recommend a discontinuation of fish oil supplementation. Frankly, that would be foolish. And it almost certainly does not impair the nootropic effects of piracetam.

Also, I think you're exaggerating the extent of neurogenesis. It's a slow and subtle process. Also, running most effectively induces legitimate neurogenesis: the formation of new neurons from precursor cells. Most "neurogenic" molecules like Lions Mane and ALCAR, and possibly Bacopa and Ash, actually promote neurite outgrowth rather that full blown neurogenesis. This increases the functional complexity of neuronal activity by producing more dendrites and dendritic spines, not by producing more neurons. They are two distinct processes.

[Ichoose2live]

Expert Opin Ther Pat. 2009 May;19(5):727-30.


Nootropic agents stimulate neurogenesis. Brain Cells, Inc.: WO2007104035.
Taupin P.

Dublin City University, School of Biotechnology, Glasnevin, Dublin 9, Ireland. philippe.taupin@dcu.ie


Abstract
The application is in the field of adult neurogenesis, neural stem cells and cellular therapy. It aims to characterize the activity of nootropic agents on adult neurogenesis in vitro. Nootropic agents are substances improving cognitive and mental abilities. AMPA (alpha-amino-3-hydroxyl-5-methyl-4-isoxazole-propionate) and nootropic agents were assessed for the potential to differentiate human neural progenitor and stem cells into neuronal cells in vitro. They were also tested for their behavioural activity on the novel object recognition task. AMPA, piracetam, FK-960 and SGS-111 induce and stimulate neuronal differentiation of human-derived neural progenitor and stem cells. SGS-111 increases the number of visits to the novel object. The neurogenic activity of piracetam and SGS-111 is mediated through AMPA receptor. The neurogenic activity of SGS-111 may contribute and play a role in its nootropic activity. These results suggest that nootropic agents may elicit some of their effects through their neurogenic activity. The application claims the use of nootropic agents for their neurogenic activity and for the treatment of neurological diseases, disorders and injuries, by stimulating or increasing the generation of neuronal cells in the adult brain.

PMID: 19441945 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Enough said?

[sunshinefrost]

Front Neurosci. 2010 Sep 7;4. pii: 44.
Improved mitochondrial function in brain aging and Alzheimer disease - the new mechanism of action of the old metabolic enhancer piracetam.
Leuner K, Kurz C, Guidetti G, Orgogozo JM, Müller WE.
Source
Department of Pharmacology, Biocenter, University of Frankfurt Frankfurt, Germany.

Abstract
Piracetam, the prototype of the so-called nootropic drugs' is used since many years in different countries to treat cognitive impairment in aging and dementia. Findings that piracetam enhances fluidity of brain mitochondrial membranes led to the hypothesis that piracetam might improve mitochondrial function, e.g., might enhance ATP synthesis. This assumption has recently been supported by a number of observations showing enhanced mitochondrial membrane potential, enhanced ATP production, and reduced sensitivity for apoptosis in a variety of cell and animal models for aging and Alzheimer disease. As a specific consequence, substantial evidence for elevated neuronal plasticity as a specific effect of piracetam has emerged. Taken together, this new findings can explain many of the therapeutic effects of piracetam on cognition in aging and dementia as well as different situations of brain dysfunctions.

relevant ?

[Justchill]

could piracetam have an influence on soft tissue injury healing?
I know it thins your blood.

[kache]

that's a good Question NathanielZ, I have the same questions and interests. I know Lion's mane/alcar may improve neurogenesis but as for piracetam reducing receptor's efficacity i don't know...

Last time i tried it for 3 months and my verbal fluency seemed to stay a bit enven if i was out of pira.

I would really suck that the corpus calloseum wears down for too much use... I hope it's more of a musle(use it or lose it) type of thing.

We'll see, i'll "bump" this post in 10 years.

So, one year has passed. How do you feel?

[samuilov]

BUMP!!

[Complexology]

I know a friend who uses piracetam 1 to 2 times a week for 10 years, with choline, preferrably alpha gpc.

 

Tbh, I meet so many unintelligent people in here, overtaking litterally what everybody says, what about using proper reasong for a sec. Never take piracetam every day for long term. It's like everything in life, alchohol, smoking cigarettes, weed, food and so on, with moderation. 

 

I could make a report why not to take it every day.

 

Piracetam you consume every 72 hours 3200 - 4000 gram. You also see the affects, reverberating 48 hours onwards.

 

Make it simple:

 

I use:

200 mg magnesium 24 hours

3000 mg fish-oil 24 hours

4000 mg piracetam 72 hours in combo with 400 mg alpha gpc.

1 multi-vitam pill 72 hours.

 

My friend says all other racetam are good, but if you want to be a life time user, never exceed 72 hours range with racetam use. It's also waste of money, using it every day.

[daonlyplaya]

I know a friend who uses piracetam 1 to 2 times a week for 10 years, with choline, preferrably alpha gpc.
 
Tbh, I meet so many unintelligent people in here, overtaking litterally what everybody says, what about using proper reasong for a sec. Never take piracetam every day for long term. It's like everything in life, alchohol, smoking cigarettes, weed, food and so on, with moderation. 
 
I could make a report why not to take it every day.
 
Piracetam you consume every 72 hours 3200 - 4000 gram. You also see the affects, reverberating 48 hours onwards.
 
Make it simple:
 
I use:
200 mg magnesium 24 hours
3000 mg fish-oil 24 hours
4000 mg piracetam 72 hours in combo with 400 mg alpha gpc.
1 multi-vitam pill 72 hours.
 
My friend says all other racetam are good, but if you want to be a life time user, never exceed 72 hours range with racetam use. It's also waste of money, using it every day.

Could you please explain why we should use it less often for long term efficacy? So we should take a relatively large dose every 3 days?

[Complexology]

 

I know a friend who uses piracetam 1 to 2 times a week for 10 years, with choline, preferrably alpha gpc.
 
Tbh, I meet so many unintelligent people in here, overtaking litterally what everybody says, what about using proper reasong for a sec. Never take piracetam every day for long term. It's like everything in life, alchohol, smoking cigarettes, weed, food and so on, with moderation. 
 
I could make a report why not to take it every day.
 
Piracetam you consume every 72 hours 3200 - 4000 gram. You also see the affects, reverberating 48 hours onwards.
 
Make it simple:
 
I use:
200 mg magnesium 24 hours
3000 mg fish-oil 24 hours
4000 mg piracetam 72 hours in combo with 400 mg alpha gpc.
1 multi-vitam pill 72 hours.
 
My friend says all other racetam are good, but if you want to be a life time user, never exceed 72 hours range with racetam use. It's also waste of money, using it every day.

Could you please explain why we should use it less often for long term efficacy? So we should take a relatively large dose every 3 days?

 

 

1. Piracetam long term affects have no extensive and conclusive studies available on neurobiology:

 

Piracetam has no long term studies yet, that validates the use of it to be safe for a high enough percentage, though the probability for it to be unsafe is nihil or less than 5% over a life time to my estimation, and from the data I gathered. So daily use should less likely impact overall health. P

 

2. Piracetams affect and perspective cost-efficiency

Piracetams affect reverberates from start upto 72 hours, in my experience. If you choose for cost-efficiency I would suggest using it every 72 hours. If you got enough dough to play with I suggest 2400mg to 4000mg a day. Morning and afternoon. With 5 to 6 hours interval.

 

3. Piracetams affect on neurochemistry the threats, risks and dangers

Most common reports: Anxiety, agitation.

Overactive and overstimulated brain,

Sleeprelated problemsleading to insomnia.

Though with proper self-regulation, intrapersonal awareness and knowledge. All these symptoms could be reduced or managed until non-existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Complexology, 22 June 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Timothy]

I took Piracetam from 2008 and only recently stopped for a few months December last year at dosages of about 4g per day in a single dose in the morning with choline supplement.

 

All-in-all I've had no side effects and generally feel great.  If you are really want to change your brain then use Piracetam along with Dual-N-Back for at least an hour a day before work.  The DNB before bed didn't work for my lifestyle.

 

Next thing to improve your brain while on Piracetam is Alcohol - Cut It Out.  One glass of alcohol continually set back my gains.

 

[metabrain]

I used to be a huge fan of Piracetam, I read all of the pubmed articles, read the longecity reviews and speculation on its long term use, I talked about it all the time. On Piracetam I had no depression, no anxiety. I could stay awake all day and not feel tired, it was a life saver for me however.....

 

I was using it for about 6 months to improve my mood and memory but had started to get agitated on it, even after cycling, with and without choline etc,  so I decided to consult with a doctor who is very knoweldage on Piracetam and has used it for over 20 years on Coma and TBI patients, he told me under no circumstances should you use Piracetam for longer than 3 months as its neuroprotective effects begin to reverse into oxidative effects (U curve effect)

 

I wasn't allowed to leave his office until I promised I would stop taking it. I was so shocked by his reaction that I did.

 

Piracetam is a powerful drug, its easy to read of all the success stories and read the pubmed articles and ignore the negative press about it, its easy to feel good on it and equate that good feeling with neroprotective effects but the price in my opinion is too much.

[norepinephrine]

Interesting. Any other sources to back up your physician's claim?

[oneshot2shots]

Does this mean that 3 months on and 3 months off is optimal???

[metabrain]

Optimal no, from what I gather Piracetam is simply used to repair damage and once that damage is repaired than further use of the drug is not recommended. It makes sense though I mean everything I read about Piracetam from medical journals stated trials for use in some kind of brain injury or brain damage mouse model, although I did use this drug and I was it's biggest fan I just can no longer recommend it.

[teacult]

I have left home for 15 years when I came back , my father had some serious mood and memory issues. He was under a lot of self-induced overwork stress. And his sleep was seriously disturbed and he had constant sleep debt. He refused to see a doctor. He had 3 different tension and blood pressure pills. I examined side effects and interaction of the pills from various medical sites. Consulting some pharmacists, I recommended him to use piracetam and quit smoking adjusting the dosages of other pills accordingly based on subjective feelings and his daily perceived performance.

After 2 months of 2 times of 2.4g piracetam and 2g fish oil daily, he recovered big time. After first month he quit caffeine and blood pressure pills. After 2 month he quit smoking. 1 year passed and today, I proudly ask him for advice and chat with him for fun, instead of running away from him. He was both slow on mental tasks and extremely angry. I was running from him like running from a grenade. . 

Afterwards he missed piracetams effects and used it for one more month then I intervened and he quit. He is on pasta and meatballs now and a lot of sweets and water, without any health problem. But he had some dental problems lately .
He is back to his normal super fun to chat smart.

Edited by teacult, 10 November 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Brain­]

Optimal no, from what I gather Piracetam is simply used to repair damage and once that damage is repaired than further use of the drug is not recommended. It makes sense though I mean everything I read about Piracetam from medical journals stated trials for use in some kind of brain injury or brain damage mouse model, although I did use this drug and I was it's biggest fan I just can no longer recommend it.

 

Calling bull. Been on Piracetam for a few years now. Permanent enhancement and I can't feel any effects from substance anymore. The effect remained with me and feel like when I was on it but its like that everyday without it.

Been on Pramiracetam now, definitely see the same/better results of enhancements. So your 3 months theory is about as bogus as vegetables that cause cancer. Back it up with a full fledged study or back out.

 

 

Constant everyday dosage for 3 years.

[teacult]

Can you further elaborate, what do you mean by "I can't feel any effects from substance anymore." ?
What were the effects ? And what is your constant dosage on it ?