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Aspergers Stack


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#31 caruga

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 11:10 AM

Further reasoning suggests the following (approximate, not rigorously/scientifically precise) chain of causation: poor methylation-> glutathione deficiency -> poor handling of heavy metal elimination -> chronic low-level exposure to metals, most likely mercury. And quite possibly, if this ability to render small heavy metal-quantities harmless is rooted in genetics, then it was even happening from the foetal stage--maybe your placement on the autistic spectrum determines the damage done from the very beginning, as well as where the mercury winds up in your tissues.

Once again, I reassert that this is not science, I am just creating models of understanding based on varying degrees of the likelyhood of certain things being so. By standards of scientific rigour, this is wild and completely baseless speculation; but for speculating for the self with limited information and access, it satisfies for the moment until I'm offered something better. I would prefer the truth, but I think this may hit less off target than some might think.

The hypomanic state certainly sounded like a hypomanic state (with no crash, except one time last night when I had a bath, resulting in mild anhedonia (I first perceived anxiety, which I then realised to be caused by the altered emotional state where I hadn't noticed the emotional state leave me)--and I have a theory as to why, as my skin smells distinctly different and my fingers smell sulfuric when I take high dose MSM and NAC (which I don't do at the moment), suggesting I can sweat it out...), though I've not seen evidence linking hypomanic states with NAC. And as to what I'm alleging are detox symptoms--and my life-long ticks (trying to induce neck/upper-back shivers, trying to induce satisfaction from squinting or making weird noises with my mouth) kicking into frenzied high gear when undergoing the detox or 'detox'--noone has offered an explanation, for or against my own, for what is happening there. Or the strong desire to initially massage through rubbing, and then through beating, my body, which is a desire I've never in my life experienced before (always hated massages, and never felt like a certain part of me wanted rubbing). Nor have they accounted for the weird weight/stiffness inside my spine that in the last few days I've experienced when the daily detox reaches a climax.

I understand the scientific method to put an idea under fire, and with that I have a request to make--to attempt to DISPROVE--because only the bullet-proof will satisfy. Among those who have the time, I would love the most learned forum members to try and tear holes in my theory, or ascribe explanations (not just labels) for what is occuring to my mind and body--or provide me with proof that what I suspect to be happening is what is happening.

Thank you.

Edited by caruga, 02 June 2011 - 11:13 AM.


#32 caruga

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 11:40 AM

I realise I never actually posted the first email excerpt where I describe the detox symptoms. I'll summarize it instead:

1. Shivers or whole-body tremors.
2. Reignition of life-long ticks that, in life, tended to come on for a few days to weeks, then cease for a few weeks or months; most of the time this is the attempt to induce neck chills through shuddering. Both this tick and the others try to reach an elusive feeling like when a yawn eludes you, only unlike a yawn, there is no defining point of satisfaction (i.e. that actually yawning would be)--these include making a sort-of clucking noise with the throat, squinting, repositioning my jaw in a funny way, and probably others that haven't happened frequently enough for me to remember.
3. After a few days of doing the day-long process, stiffness in the spine would occur as well.
4. Creation of new ticks (only can count 1 for certain), such as a chesty noise I started making after the first occurance of spine-stiffness. It seems to ONLY occur when I get the stiff spine.
5. A desire to massage, and later on, beat, or press a finger hard on, specific points of my body, which range from head to toe. The first occurance was a pricking feeling in deep tissue just below my right nipple. Sometimes the pricks are near the surface, sometimes they feel like they are inside organs.
6. As all the aformentioned symptoms subside and the need to massage diminishes, a very obvious increase in cerebral blood-flow occurs, as if the blood were able to occupy more of my brain. This coincides the symptoms that also define the hypomania (except the thoughts are so grandiose that someone judging me would drop the hypo, but I think that is just where my self-esteem is genuinely at).

The order seems to go: shivers, tremors, need to massage, hypomania, spine, with small variations/overlap/fragmentation. The ticks are scattered everywhere and sometimes don't crop up much at all, except the one that coincides with the spine occurance.

I believe though that hypomania is just the brain ascending to a higher activity level due to feeling prepared to do so. I also have a theory for bipolar that relates to this:

When a person becomes 'manic', their mind is operating in a higher level of functioning. The hunger that the mind then wishes to satisfy is to _rediscover_ reality at this new level, with an ability to reintegrate everything they already know at a new level of detail. This feeling has the same innocent clean enthusiasm with which a toddler points at an aeroplane; the young are the most eager and swift to take on board knowledge. I also believe we have the ability to learn at that same rate our entire lives, potentially.

They begin by looking out at the world. They aren't actually be looking at the world through their senses, as an infant would, but rather revisiting the sum of everything the person has already ever seen or known, and having an orgy of rediscovering and seeing greater depth in the already-learned (I actually have a hypothesis that the mind has recorded everything that's passed over all of its senses throughout its life, with conceptualisation/abstraction as the means to making sense of it all, but the theory here doesn't depend on that hypothesis being true).

The depressed episode comes when the person finally stops staring outward at the world, and much like how an infant does so for the first time, looks inward to (re)discover the self, i.e. become once again self-aware with this increased mental vision. The unadulterated eyes forget all automated self-deception, as that is a product of the eyes of the less active brain. They see the self as it is.

And they see something in their selves that they couldn't see before because of constructs of automated self-deceit, as well as seeing the constructs themselves, and they very much dislike what they see; it looks completely black and ulcerous, and totally out of place in contrast to the joy of the discovery they were experiencing just before. This experience is so intense that they instantly slam their mind shut on it.

Since it takes time to automate self-deception, the mind has no time to wait for it; it instead regresses back to its previously, less-well-operating state in order to regain access to the automated processes, constructs, and rationalisations that block out the self and offer reinterprations of the self to permit self-acceptance to be possible. Their mind puts the blinders back on, but not before it got an eyeful. Like a person who went under hypnosis and doesn't remember what was said, they don't remember actually seeing the self, and the event occured subconsciously. But they're left with the emotional aftertaste of it, a causeless feeling of needless doom, or dread. They'll also feel a sense of being undeserving to feel good emotions, or of the benefits of the 'mania' that they were enjoying so much.

A variation on this theory at this point (or perhaps a variable, where either thing can happen) is that the mind doesn't regress back to any previous state, but remeans 'manically' depressed, i.e. glimpses the self, puts blinders on without the prerequisite of alternating to the lowered brain-activity state.

Eventually, the mind feels punished for becoming 'manic', and becomes depressive. The amount of punishment it felt determines the duration until the next episode.

Truthfully, the 'mania' just refers to a step up in brain activity that many of us throughout our lives experience, as a natural thing that helps us meet and overcome challenges and as a means to grow as a person. Perhaps it happens through an epiphany, or perhaps it is more physical, such as the body getting continually supplied with better nourishment continually over a long period and then is free to give the brain more of its resources. Or maybe it is something else again.

Manic depression would be a cycle of this stepping up of brain-activity until the mind rediscovers the self with new 'eyes' to see with, and then regresses down to the previous level due to what it sees.

This isn't a theory I am settled on. It is also possible that the increase in activity simply can't be maintained for resource reasons, and there doesn't seem to be a point in life when you're not at that heightened level as you can't do any of the things that you want to do without it. Or it could be a combination of both of these things.

I also don't have bipolar; that'll disqualify me for being able to rightfully discuss the subject in the eyes of some. Though, without presumption, I believe that I received a taste of what it's like today, and for just this day followed the pattern of a bipolar sufferer, in form but not in intensity.


I wrote that while 'hypomanic'. :~ <- why is it grey?

Sorry for the flood of posts, I would consolidate it into one. Hope I'm not perceived as hijacking the thread. :~ :~ :~ :~ :~ :~ :~ :~ ima ghost

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#33 TheFountain

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:09 PM

Wow, that was like you were completely describing my life! Are there any other supplements that you take or other things that you did that helped?


I've taken many supplements, mainly to help with my chronic fatigue. The only things I've not already mentioned that help are aniracetam (inconsistently), possibly phenibut, and a small dose of piracetam plus a small dose of alchohol. These all help with social inhibition and withdrawl (getting out of your head, being more charismatic/socially relevent), but I don't believe they get to the root of the problem (I think it's a wholely psychological problem indirectly provoked by a physical one).


It all comes down to an inferior mental function. For whatever deeply embedded reason you're nervous to embrace the outside world. No amount of supplements or drugs will cure that. They may be of temporary aid but the neurosis still persists. I would get a good therapist and work things out that way. Could take months (or even years) but it is well worth the personal exploration and end result.



I agree, except that I do believe medication and/or supplements are necessary for many to facilitate getting as close to healthy function as possible.


Yes, but medication and supplements are fruitless without self exploration and the discovery of the actual unconscious dilemma that gives rise to it. Chemical based or not, there is still an inferior mental function that needs to be addressed, be it some sort of inferiority complex related to a forgotten experience as a child or some other such correlative. In the end, therapeutic measures will yield the finest results.

#34 TheFountain

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:16 PM

It all comes down to an inferior mental function. For whatever deeply embedded reason you're nervous to embrace the outside world. No amount of supplements or drugs will cure that. They may be of temporary aid but the neurosis still persists. I would get a good therapist and work things out that way. Could take months (or even years) but it is well worth the personal exploration and end result.

So people with Aspergers should just 'get over it'? I don't think you understand this condition. Supplements, drugs, and therapy all have a role here. The physical correlates of Aspergers are just beginning to be understood; there is a lot of biochemical dysfunction that can and should be addressed chemically. See my post above, for example.


I did not say people with aspergers should 'get over it'. On the contrary I spoke of therapeutic measures that would yield, possibly, greater results than any medication ever could (provided the right kind of therapist). You are talking about the difference here between a possible neurosis and chemically castrating oneself in order to deal with said neurosis. And while I am a firm proponent of supplements, I do not believe in chemical escape. Once you are escaping on the chemical level you are hiding from yourself and the world, and in doing so you're only augmenting the condition that put you there. There seems to be less and less appreciation for therapeutic measures in society. I notice that therapy makes me more self aware, and able to get ahead of things. When I am not self aware and able to be one step ahead of everything else I lose my constitution and start to see things from a skewed angle. This gives rise to the formation of latent neuroses. And then what? Another 2 years in therapy? We as individuals have got to get control of our minds, and by minds I do not mean just how chemical imbalances interrupt neural connections, because that is just a small fragment of it.

#35 #1hit

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 01:19 AM

caruga, this might be of interest; the full paper is available at pubmed:

Am J Med Genet B Neuropsychiatr Genet. 2006 Dec 5;141B(8):947-56.
Metabolic endophenotype and related genotypes are associated with oxidative stress in children with autism.
James SJ, Melnyk S, Jernigan S, Cleves MA, Halsted CH, Wong DH, Cutler P, Bock K, Boris M, Bradstreet JJ, Baker SM, Gaylor DW.
Source
Department of Pediatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, Little Rock, Arkansas 72202, USA. jamesjill@uams.edu
Abstract
Autism is a behaviorally defined neurodevelopmental disorder usually diagnosed in early childhood that is characterized by impairment in reciprocal communication and speech, repetitive behaviors, and social withdrawal. Although both genetic and environmental factors are thought to be involved, none have been reproducibly identified. The metabolic phenotype of an individual reflects the influence of endogenous and exogenous factors on genotype. As such, it provides a window through which the interactive impact of genes and environment may be viewed and relevant susceptibility factors identified. Although abnormal methionine metabolism has been associated with other neurologic disorders, these pathways and related polymorphisms have not been evaluated in autistic children. Plasma levels of metabolites in methionine transmethylation and transsulfuration pathways were measured in 80 autistic and 73 control children. In addition, common polymorphic variants known to modulate these metabolic pathways were evaluated in 360 autistic children and 205 controls. The metabolic results indicated that plasma methionine and the ratio of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) to S-adenosylhomocysteine (SAH), an indicator of methylation capacity, were significantly decreased in the autistic children relative to age-matched controls. In addition, plasma levels of cysteine, glutathione, and the ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione, an indication of antioxidant capacity and redox homeostasis, were significantly decreased. Differences in allele frequency and/or significant gene-gene interactions were found for relevant genes encoding the reduced folate carrier (RFC 80G > A), transcobalamin II (TCN2 776G > C), catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT 472G > A), methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR 677C > T and 1298A > C), and glutathione-S-transferase (GST M1). We propose that an increased vulnerability to oxidative stress (endogenous or environmental) may contribute to the development and clinical manifestations of autism.
PMID: 16917939
PMCID: PMC2610366
Free PMC Article


Also, check this out, as far as an Aspergers stack:

Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):425-30. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
Efficacy of methylcobalamin and folinic acid treatment on glutathione redox status in children with autism.
James SJ, Melnyk S, Fuchs G, Reid T, Jernigan S, Pavliv O, Hubanks A, Gaylor DW.
Source
Department of Pediatrics and Biostatistics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, Little Rock, AR 72202, USA. jamesjill@uams.edu
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Metabolic abnormalities and targeted treatment trials have been reported for several neurobehavioral disorders but are relatively understudied in autism.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to determine whether or not treatment with the metabolic precursors, methylcobalamin and folinic acid, would improve plasma concentrations of transmethylation/transsulfuration metabolites and glutathione redox status in autistic children.
DESIGN:
In an open-label trial, 40 autistic children were treated with 75 microg/kg methylcobalamin (2 times/wk) and 400 microg folinic acid (2 times/d) for 3 mo. Metabolites in the transmethylation/transsulfuration pathway were measured before and after treatment and compared with values measured in age-matched control children.
RESULTS:
The results indicated that pretreatment metabolite concentrations in autistic children were significantly different from values in the control children. The 3-mo intervention resulted in significant increases in cysteine, cysteinylglycine, and glutathione concentrations (P < 0.001). The oxidized disulfide form of glutathione was decreased and the glutathione redox ratio increased after treatment (P < 0.008). Although mean metabolite concentrations were improved significantly after intervention, they remained below those in unaffected control children.
CONCLUSION:
The significant improvements observed in transmethylation metabolites and glutathione redox status after treatment suggest that targeted nutritional intervention with methylcobalamin and folinic acid may be of clinical benefit in some children who have autism. This trial was registered at (clinicaltrials.gov) as NCT00692315.
PMID: 19056591



Thank you so much for posting those study excerpts from the pediatric hospitals. Most of this discussion is way to conviluted for me to pick things out of, but your post is very concise and fact-based and backed. So basically what these studies purport is that people born with a disorder on the autism spectrum are inclined to have an alteration to their genes that predisposes the person to have lower levels of glutithione / inferior antioxidant activity, which aggravates oxidation stress and results in autistic symptoms?

And the second study proposes a way to boost the levels of antioxidant activity in an individual, through methylcobalamin and folic acid supplementation, right? So do you think that adding a b-complex and procuring that methylcobalamin would be worthwhile?

#36 #1hit

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 01:28 AM

Wow, that was like you were completely describing my life! Are there any other supplements that you take or other things that you did that helped?


I've taken many supplements, mainly to help with my chronic fatigue. The only things I've not already mentioned that help are aniracetam (inconsistently), possibly phenibut, and a small dose of piracetam plus a small dose of alchohol. These all help with social inhibition and withdrawl (getting out of your head, being more charismatic/socially relevent), but I don't believe they get to the root of the problem (I think it's a wholely psychological problem indirectly provoked by a physical one).


It all comes down to an inferior mental function. For whatever deeply embedded reason you're nervous to embrace the outside world. No amount of supplements or drugs will cure that. They may be of temporary aid but the neurosis still persists. I would get a good therapist and work things out that way. Could take months (or even years) but it is well worth the personal exploration and end result.



I agree, except that I do believe medication and/or supplements are necessary for many to facilitate getting as close to healthy function as possible.


Yes, but medication and supplements are fruitless without self exploration and the discovery of the actual unconscious dilemma that gives rise to it. Chemical based or not, there is still an inferior mental function that needs to be addressed, be it some sort of inferiority complex related to a forgotten experience as a child or some other such correlative. In the end, therapeutic measures will yield the finest results.



I agree that therapy is a viable and trustworthy option in any autism spectrum treatment plan, but not for entirely the same reason. It's highly unlikely that some sort of emotional trauma in early childhood or emotions are the instigators of any autism spectrum disorder, including aspergers, and it is not a disorder you are going to "talk your way through". It's brain circuits structured differently then normal alot of times, and if dealing with an emotion clears up asperger symptoms, you likely didn't have bona fide aspergers to begin with.

That said, it has an extremely important place. First of all, therapy is a great place to objectively air out thoughts, get an outside opinion, and really think through behaviors, thoughts, etc to the point where you can work with your therapist to train yourself to overcome deficits caused by aspergers, such as practicing two way conversations or engaging in biofeedback. Also, as a sufferer of a disorder that alienates you from people, it is likely that there are many emotions swirling inside, and being unable to express oneself keeps everything bottled up. Therapy is a great place to release those emotions in a safe, controlled environment. Just understand that aspergers/autism isn't like depression or anxiety where the way you think has the most influence over the symptoms, but is much more structurally embedded.

#37 niner

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 01:49 AM

It all comes down to an inferior mental function. For whatever deeply embedded reason you're nervous to embrace the outside world. No amount of supplements or drugs will cure that. They may be of temporary aid but the neurosis still persists. I would get a good therapist and work things out that way. Could take months (or even years) but it is well worth the personal exploration and end result.

So people with Aspergers should just 'get over it'? I don't think you understand this condition. Supplements, drugs, and therapy all have a role here. The physical correlates of Aspergers are just beginning to be understood; there is a lot of biochemical dysfunction that can and should be addressed chemically. See my post above, for example.

I did not say people with aspergers should 'get over it'. On the contrary I spoke of therapeutic measures that would yield, possibly, greater results than any medication ever could (provided the right kind of therapist). You are talking about the difference here between a possible neurosis and chemically castrating oneself in order to deal with said neurosis. And while I am a firm proponent of supplements, I do not believe in chemical escape. Once you are escaping on the chemical level you are hiding from yourself and the world, and in doing so you're only augmenting the condition that put you there. There seems to be less and less appreciation for therapeutic measures in society. I notice that therapy makes me more self aware, and able to get ahead of things. When I am not self aware and able to be one step ahead of everything else I lose my constitution and start to see things from a skewed angle. This gives rise to the formation of latent neuroses. And then what? Another 2 years in therapy? We as individuals have got to get control of our minds, and by minds I do not mean just how chemical imbalances interrupt neural connections, because that is just a small fragment of it.

When you have a methylation pathway dysfunction and you correct it with supplements, you aren't "chemically castrating yourself". This isn't "chemical escape". It's not getting high. It's fixing a biochemical defect and making your brain function more normally. This thread is about people with Aspergers. It's not about neurotypical people who happen to be neurotic.
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#38 zarakion

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 08:01 AM

There seems to be some research that indicates that people with Asperges got dramatic improvement while on Carnosine. Any one having experience with that supplement?

#39 caruga

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:14 AM

Just for the record, and as I've already stated, I think that some (most?) aspergers sufferers are also neurotic in a way particular to people like them, but the physical problem needs to be surmounted first before that unwiring can truly begin to happen. I also don't think any therapist today could untangle it.

#40 caruga

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:19 AM

@#1hit: I'm curious why you were diagnosed with Aspergers. I'm not trying to rip the label off of you if it deserves to be there, but the only symptoms you've mentioned fit ADHD-PI or perhaps motor coordination. Care to elucidate?

#41 niner

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:27 PM

So basically what these studies purport is that people born with a disorder on the autism spectrum are inclined to have an alteration to their genes that predisposes the person to have lower levels of glutithione / inferior antioxidant activity, which aggravates oxidation stress and results in autistic symptoms?

And the second study proposes a way to boost the levels of antioxidant activity in an individual, through methylcobalamin and folic acid supplementation, right? So do you think that adding a b-complex and procuring that methylcobalamin would be worthwhile?

That's what it looks like, yes. I think that methylcobalamin and folinic acid would be worth trying. I would not use a typical B-complex, because they invariably contain ordinary folate. I would seek out the folinic acid instead. In addition, I would supplement magnesium (2-400mg elemental) and possibly selenium (50-100 mcg). Vitamin B6 is another compound that might be worth a try in the pyridoxal or P5P form.

#42 #1hit

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:32 PM

@#1hit: I'm curious why you were diagnosed with Aspergers. I'm not trying to rip the label off of you if it deserves to be there, but the only symptoms you've mentioned fit ADHD-PI or perhaps motor coordination. Care to elucidate?



I'm about to start working for the day, so I can't elaborate to the fullest right now, but basically because I can, when I can remember them, give distinct examples of almost every AS symptom imaginable from something I've done or a way ive acted in any given week.

I struggle greatly with two way communication, do not get a plethora of common sense things, cannot put myself in other people's shoes unless I think about it for literally hours, do not understand body language, have a monotone voice, go on long monologues, have trouble taking something that someone says or that I read and grasping the actual meaning of it, rather than just knowing other synonymns for the word, have almost no working memory to speak of, etc. I'll leave a longer response tonight if your really interested, or shoot you a pm.

#43 caruga

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 03:54 PM

@#1hit: I'm curious why you were diagnosed with Aspergers. I'm not trying to rip the label off of you if it deserves to be there, but the only symptoms you've mentioned fit ADHD-PI or perhaps motor coordination. Care to elucidate?



I'm about to start working for the day, so I can't elaborate to the fullest right now, but basically because I can, when I can remember them, give distinct examples of almost every AS symptom imaginable from something I've done or a way ive acted in any given week.

I struggle greatly with two way communication, do not get a plethora of common sense things, cannot put myself in other people's shoes unless I think about it for literally hours, do not understand body language, have a monotone voice, go on long monologues, have trouble taking something that someone says or that I read and grasping the actual meaning of it, rather than just knowing other synonymns for the word, have almost no working memory to speak of, etc. I'll leave a longer response tonight if your really interested, or shoot you a pm.


Thank you, that was very helpful. For when you're not on the job, here's a convoluted response: Not to mean negative connotations in any way (and be rude back to me if it is all the same) but I think I may be further toward the higher functioning end of the spectrum versus yourself. The reason it was helpful is because I was previously using only myself as a model for what aspergers is, which flouts the whole 'spectrum' concept, and I shouldn't have been thinking that way.

For example, body language. To say people with aspergers don't understand body language is not always true. I think there are varying degrees of difficulty and of awareness, ranging from total obliviousness of even its existence or failure to grasp the concept of body language or the necessity of it (purpose it serves), to awareness but difficulty reading, to difficulty interpreting which is different from reading it, to just mild difficulties. I would categorise myself (until recently) as second to last.

The difference between reading and interpreting is: when a person can't read body language, the language literally means nothing to them, no matter how long they look (except for the most elementary aspects like :-D or :laugh:--but even then some struggle even with that).

Interpretation is not reading the body language, i.e. knowing 'what the message means' but rather 'where it fits into the bigger picture', which would then feed you information on how to respond and generate your own body language in turn.

They're different, and I think when defining aspergers and defining autism, experts fail to be aware of that important difference.

I still stand by my theory that it's a deficit in executive function to some degree, which is that faculty that manages the responses and comprehends the bigger picture. Some people's deficit goes as far as preventing them from understanding anything but smiling or laughing (and without needing to say it, they could only READ that, and not have a chance of fitting it into the bigger picture unless it's someone very familiar). Others can be aware of what's going on, and as they grow older graduate to revise how they explain people's actions and behaviours into something more enlightened and nuanced.

I also stand behind my theory that their INTELLECT is intact (and perhaps, encourages 'over'development from 'over'exercising and as a compensation for the crippled executive function, which is why intellectually those with HFA/aspergers average higher than the general population?). This might also be why the most autistic of all have the executive function faculty so compressed that the intellect develops insanely well, which is perhaps why one in however many million develop savantism.

My personal opinion only and again, no false hope, but I think interpreting body language can be taught to those on the top few percentages of the spectrum (i.e. where they're at the level where they can read, but struggle to interpret), and they can even become better at it and with a richer understanding than the average person due to the higher intellect, if they're given the best possible theory, as they would be more effective in mobolizing the theory and applying it.

Nice day. :cool:

Edited by caruga, 03 June 2011 - 04:00 PM.


#44 caruga

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 10:07 PM

Seems today I experienced zippo in terms of 'detox symptoms'.

There are two things different that I notice when looking for an explanation.

First, I had one 'crash' in my mood shortly after a bath the other day, and I notice my skin smells different after taking NAC when I sweat, suggesting I sweated a lot of it out after having the bath. In the last two days the weather has gotten significantly warmer and I sweat when around the house (and when out of it).

The other thing is that I haven't taken my 50:50 potassium/sodium salt, in 4 days. I had decreased its intake and then dropped it entirely after concern of excess sodium. When I first started responding strongly to this treatment was around the 24th, when I took bicarb as well as the salt, in much larger quantities (actually about a gram of potassium chloride, salt, bicarb, 1-4g magnesium citrate and 500-1000mg calcium carbonate).

I get the mood benefits in the first half of the day from simply taking NAC, but I'm not as functional as I used to be, and my 'mental sketchpad' is shrinking again and it is undermining my feeling of being able to cope. My chronic fatigue symptoms are starting to ebb their way back in, where they were, at the highest point, about 80% reduced. No matter what water I take, I get hardly any chills whatsoever, no desire to massage, and certainly no spinal stiffness.

Going to ramp up the electrolyte intake again and see if that brings it all back. I don't think I'm finished, yet.

#45 caruga

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 01:48 PM

Something I've now confirmed beyond reasonable doubt: only with sufficient sodium bicarbonate, sodium chloride, and potassium chloride, do the detox symptoms appear. If I stop taking these it will continue to work for a day or two but eventually fade, and I'll also feel less thirsty for the water i'm actually drinking, as if I'm just passing it through my system rather than gaining anything from it.

If I am able to and find the time, I'll try and go back and compress some of the posts I've made. I concede I've bloated this thread and made it dense and hard to figure out what the useful information is. Sorry about that. I hope it's nonetheless useful to someone. Maybe it could be moved over to my forum blog that I haven't used up until now.

Edited by caruga, 05 June 2011 - 01:49 PM.


#46 zarakion

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:27 PM

Memantine (Namenda) is showing promise in treating autism and aspergers:

http://www.whotv.com...0,3693920.story




#47 caruga

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 01:03 PM

This will be my last post in the thread.

I've realised there is no reliable protocol to be drawn from the material i've supplied here, so if anyone wanted to do what I have done they'd just have to experiment on themselves, just as I had done. That's not what people would want to undergo, as few share the desparation that made me work on myself as a guinnea pig and take risks (I ended up ODing on sodium one time causing high blood pressure from too much bicarb, which as it turns out braeks down into pure, more easily absorbed sodium in the presence of NAC!).

I think i've figured out what I've been doing. I take a 50/50 potassium/sodium salt, nac, then lots of water. The water when eliminated lowers the sodium spike and the nac and/or glutathione in the plasma get sucked into the bodies cells, presumably progressing to my brain and spine hours later.

I've noticed a second 'crash' last night upon having another long hot bath, where I feel a depression come on and what I believe to be a prelude to brain-fog, where I feel like it's harder to think about things. That would work against my sodium-elimination theory, unless, and I think this is so, the NAC gets sweated out.

I'm going to try and figure out a constistent way of taking things and then, if I actually achieve that, present it on another thread, or as the maiden post for my forum blog.

The only thing I can hope is someone more informed than I can comment on my theory or practices. But I think everyone's stopped looking at this thread...

Edited by caruga, 08 June 2011 - 01:06 PM.


#48 tritium

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 07:24 PM

But I think everyone's stopped looking at this thread...

I'm still interested, I've just been busy lately with finals and haven't had time.

Memantine (Namenda) is showing promise in treating autism and aspergers:

I took Memantine for a few months, and I really didn't like how relaxed it made me. I mean I've never really fallen asleep during a lecture before taking this. Also, it seemed to slow my thought processes. I'd prefer the more focused state of mind when not taking it than the relaxed state it gives me.

#49 Dmitry Zh

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:37 AM

Same reaction to NAC. Has anybody any idea? 



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#50 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:22 PM

Lots of junk advice and it doesn't even seem that the OP is certain whether he really has it.

Before you try treating a disease, first make sure that you really have it lol


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 21 August 2017 - 07:24 PM.





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