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EPA not DHA for cognitive function?


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#1 brundall

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:08 PM


According to AOR, who seem to be pretty thorough in their research of supplements, it is better when taking Omega 3 (fish oil supplements) to take mostly EPA with little to no DHA at all. To dumb down their viewpoint on this they claim that DHA is mostly useful for brain structure and after the brain is fully developed, as in an adult, there is little need for DHA as a supplement. EPA on the other hand aids brain function and is used up by the brain on a continual basis and thus requires replenishment through diet. EPA is also the part useful in treating depression and mood symptoms. They appear to be making the claim that DHA has little to no effect on brain function and that it could possibly diminish cognitive performance a little.

Anyone want to chime in on this? Should we all (if we are an adult with a fully developed brain) be taking just EPA as a supplement and try to limit DHA ingestion?

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ducts.php?id=74

#2 brundall

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

According to AOR, who seem to be pretty thorough in their research of supplements, it is better when taking Omega 3 (fish oil supplements) to take mostly EPA with little to no DHA at all. To dumb down their viewpoint on this they claim that DHA is mostly useful for brain structure and after the brain is fully developed, as in an adult, there is little need for DHA as a supplement. EPA on the other hand aids brain function and is used up by the brain on a continual basis and thus requires replenishment through diet. EPA is also the part useful in treating depression and mood symptoms. They appear to be making the claim that DHA has little to no effect on brain function and that it could possibly diminish cognitive performance a little.

Anyone want to chime in on this? Should we all (if we are an adult with a fully developed brain) be taking just EPA as a supplement and try to limit DHA ingestion?

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ducts.php?id=74


Sorry, that link didn't really work out so here is their research

Pharmaceutical-Grade EPA, not DHA, for Healthy Mood and Thought Patterns

The common thinking on the different functions of the different omega-3s is: EPA for the heart, DHA for the brain.
There's a reasonable-sounding argument behind this notion, based on the fact that DHA (docosahexaenoic acid, or 22:6w3) is a major component of the brain, while there's only a tiny amount of EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid, or 20:5w3) in the nervous system. So when research started to show that countries and individuals who consumed more fish seemed more resistant to depression, schizophrenia, seasonal affective disorder (SAD), and bipolar disorder, almost everyone leapt to the conclusion that the seaborne secret just had to be DHA.

Not that it made any practical difference, of course: after all, nearly all EPA and DHA supplements come in the form of concentrated fish oil softgels with a significant amount of both fatty acids. So, the assumption was, you could get both benefits in one pill by just taking a common fish oil supplement.
Nice-sounding theory. But, as a series of randomized, placebo-controlled, clinical trials have shown, dead wrong.

Running our expectations through the spin cycle, resent research has revealed that DHA is, at best, useless when it comes to supporting the health of your thought patterns and outlook on the world. Worse: DHA may even be counterproductive. Surprisingly, EPA turns out to be the real slayer of the "Noonday Demons."

DHA: Brain Fat? Or Fat Chance?
• In one trial, researchers tested the effects of pure DHA on victims of clinical depression. For six weeks, people suffering with major depression took a supplement containing either pure DHA (two grams (2000 milligrams) a day or an inactive stand-in oil for six weeks. At the end of the trial, DHA had exerted no detectable effect whatsoever.

• In an even more pointed failure, researchers ran a trial to see if DHA supplements could prevent the depression and deficits in information processing associated with postpartum depression. This seemed like an especially good opportunity for DHA to strut its stuff, because women's levels of DHA usually decline late in their pregnancies, and they remain depressed for months after the birth of their child. Instead, the results were a complete flop. Women taking DHA supplements were no less depressed, and no better able to process information, than were women taking an inert fatty acid softgel, even though their DHA levels were much higher.

• A third trial sought to lay plain the differing effects of EPA and DHA on thought patterns and mental functioning - focusing this time on people suffering from schizophrenia. Forty-five people diagnosed with the disease were randomly assigned to begin using either two grams of high-EPA oil, the same amount of high-DHA oil, or a corn oil placebo, with no one knowing who was taking what.

The results in the DHA group were surprising. At best, they had gotten no better than people on the dummy pill. And overall, in fact, the subjects administered DHA appeared to fare worse than in the placebo group. Although the differences did not reach the statistical level of significance, there was actually a higher percentage of people taking DHA who were either treading water or showing further decay at the end of the trial than was seen with the placebo. On top of this, whereas the severity of so-called "positive" symptoms (delusions, psychoses, etc) had fallen by an average of 13.7% in patients taking the placebo, it was only reduced by 3.3% in DHA-treated subjects. In other words, it appears that patients get more relief from their "positive" symptoms if they take an inactive dummy pill than if they take DHA - suggesting that DHA may even interfere with the progress that they could otherwise make if they just continue with their conventional treatment.

It was a whole different picture in the pure EPA group. Every single one of the people who had taken the EPA-only supplement got better, with an even split between the number of people showing considerable improvements (more than 25%) on their symptom scores and the number showing more minor improvements.

• To make sure the results hadn't been some kind of wild fluke, the same group initiated a second trial to confirm the powers of EPA-only supplements. For three months, 30 relapsing schizophrenia sufferers who were not already taking drugs for their conditions took either straight EPA or placebo capsules as their sole encapsulated support - unless, during the course of the trial, their doctors deemed it clinically imperative to put them on antipsychotics, in which case the patients' safety came first and medication was permitted. But no one would know who was getting EPA, and who was taking the stand-in oil capsules. At the end of the trial, 100% of the people taking the dummy pill had been forced to go on an antipsychotic drug - versus only 57% of the EPA users.

The Power of EPA Confirmed
Since then, three more randomized, placebo-controlled trials have been performed using highly purified EPA supplements to help people with schizophrenia - and two such trials have been performed in victims of clinical depression. There have also been an additional two studies in schizophrenics, and an additional one in victims of depression, using either very high doses of omega-3 supplements containing mostly EPA (but still including some DHA), or such a supplement combined with antioxidants.

All but one of these eight trials showed that the EPA-containing supplements brought relief from these mental torments - and in that one trial, the problem seems to have been the use of excessively high doses.

• In one trial, for instance, 20 patients with major depressive disorder were randomly given either 2 grams of pure EPA or a matching stand-in for four weeks. Even in this short period, sixty percent of the people taking pure EPA experienced a remarkable 50% or greater reduction in their scores of depression, versus just ten percent of people taking the placebo. On average, the relief was clocked as a remarkable 12.4 point improvement on the Hamilton depression scale scores in EPA users - versus just a 1.6 point improvement among people stuck with the lookalike pills.

• Another double-blind trial compared the effects of EPA to the antidepressant drug fluoxetine in patients with major depressive disorder. EPA supplements were found to be as effective as the drug, with a response rate of 50% to fluoxetine, 56% to EPA and 81% to a combination of both.

Summarizing the evidence from these reports, the lead researcher in the trial which originally identified the opposing effects of EPA and DHA concluded that "In both schizophrenia and depression, the studies indicate that DHA is, if anything, rather worse than placebo in its effects on symptomology. Only EPA has given significant positive benefits."

Bipolar Disorder
Harvard Medical School performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial using high-dose fish oil supplements in 30 people trapped in bipolar disorder ("manic depression") in 1999, using the amount of long-chain omega-3s found in 32 standard fish oil capsules. At the end of the study, 86% of the people who had been taking the megadose EPA-containing oil were still free of relapse - versus only 38% of the people taking the placebo. Based on the research showing that DHA is at best an empty filler, and may even undermine the effects of EPA in schizophrenia and depression, the reason that the study required so much omega-3 may be that the high content of DHA in the supplement would have forced people to take still higher amounts of EPA to make it effective. Dr. Andrew Stoll, the lead investigator in the Harvard bipolar trial, says that his "clinical observation" is that "too much DHA relative to EPA may cause a worsening of mood. I therefore recommend using a supplement with as high an EPA content as possible".

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
Having seen the convincing results experienced by EPA users with other disorders of the mind and personality, scientists initiated a pilot randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EPA in 30 women plagued by BPD. The results were not earth-shattering - but they were significant. While symptoms improved in both groups, BPD sufferers taking the pure EPA supplements experienced greater reductions in both depression (about 15% more improved) and aggression (a 10% additional improvement) than did victims taking the placebo.

While the responses were not overwhelming, they were real - and it's worth remembering that BPD doesn't respond well to conventional drug therapies, either. Any relief from the nightmare of this disease represents an advance. Additionally, the dose in this pilot study may not have been optimal, and the authors called for "Studies assessing different doses of E-EPA for longer periods of time in larger samples".

What's the Story on these Morning Glories?
What is the key function of EPA in the brain that underlies its ability to support the health of the mind? The truth is, we don't know- at least, not with certainty. But we do have a good working hypothesis. Pioneering essential fatty acid researcher Ralph Holman put the core insight succinctly: "DHA is structure. EPA is function."

DHA is an essential structural component of nerve cells, needed in large amounts to build the brain during embryonic and childhood development. But once the brain and nervous system has matured, the developed brain's day-to-day DHA needs are minimal.

By contrast, although only a small amount of EPA is present in brain cell membranes at any given time, that small quantity is continuously being used up, necessitating ongoing replacement. EPA is quickly "turned over" as the brain ceaselessly releases EPA from its cell membranes for use in "signal transduction," conveying neurochemical messages within neurons just as neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine carry messages between them. EPA also fine-tunes and balances the signaling carried out by the brain's main omega-6 fat, arachidonic acid (AA). Because EPA is biochemically consumed in the process of carrying out its signal transduction role, the brain has a need for a large, steady supply of new EPA to keep functioning optimally.

The reason why DHA might actually worsen symptoms in people with mood and thought pattern disorders is less clear, but may simply be a matter of displacement. There's only so much "room" available for unsaturated fatty acids in the phospholipids of the brain's cellular membranes, and taking extra DHA (which is already plentiful in the brain) may squeeze out EPA by competing with it for the limited number of spots available to be filled when these phospholipids are being biosynthesized. Taking EPA supplements, by contrast, guarantees that the brain can meet its needs for a continuous, reliable supply of EPA, ensuring that adequate EPA is available when the brain needs it for signal transduction.

However it works, the evidence is clear. People looking to harness the power of omega-3 fatty acids for the health of their brains should look to supplements rich in EPA - and with as little DHA as possible.

The Wonky Well
Clinical depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and borderline personality disorder are serious illnesses which require qualified medical diagnosis and treatment. For people suffering with these disorders, the new research on EPA is very good news: with physician guidance, it suggests, high doses of this biologically essential orthomolecule in purified form may complement the conventional therapies already prescribed by their doctors.

Fortunately, of course, most of us do not suffer from such extreme psychic disturbances. But that doesn't mean that our minds are as clear, our feelings as stable, our responses to the world as reasonable, or our outlooks on life as bright as they could be - or should be, for our own health and happiness. We don't just want to be "non-insane," in other words: we want to be dynamically engaged with life, grasping the world in both hands and squeezing forth its sweet nectar. The good news, this research suggests, is that when not encumbered by DHA, pharmaceutical-grade EPA supplements can open your brain to the real possibilities around you, shattering the "mind forg'd manacles" that are holding you back from experiencing life's joys to their fullest

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#3 leha

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:04 AM

What if you're taking DHA for inflammation?

#4 nupi

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 01:47 AM

This leaves me a little confused still. If mainly interested in mood, are we shooting for high levels of EPA irrespective of DHA (i.e. if there is significant DHA in the supplement that's ok, like with Costcos' Trunature Triple strength with 647/254mg) or is it the ratio we are looking at (i.e. high EPA, low DHA like for example in Source Naturals' Pure EPA with 500mg/90mg?)?

Or even more easily put: how much EPA and how much DHA :)

#5 rwac

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:02 AM

Is "Whatever works best for you." not good enough as an answer ?

#6 nameless

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:27 AM

I recall studies using 1g of EPA, with no DHA, providing a benefit as far as depression. I also think they found that higher doses didn't provide any additional benefit

But as Rwac mentioned, whatever works for you is probably best.

You can always test using a high EPA formula and see how you do.

Edited by nameless, 25 June 2011 - 06:28 AM.


#7 nupi

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:20 AM

Is "Whatever works best for you." not good enough as an answer ?

Not all that useful as starting point :)

#8 rwac

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:42 AM

Is "Whatever works best for you." not good enough as an answer ?

Not all that useful as starting point :)


If you want to test the effectiveness of EPA, then go with a supplement that has mininal DHA.
And then try the reverse.

#9 brundall

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:44 PM

This leaves me a little confused still. If mainly interested in mood, are we shooting for high levels of EPA irrespective of DHA (i.e. if there is significant DHA in the supplement that's ok, like with Costcos' Trunature Triple strength with 647/254mg) or is it the ratio we are looking at (i.e. high EPA, low DHA like for example in Source Naturals' Pure EPA with 500mg/90mg?)?

Or even more easily put: how much EPA and how much DHA :)


Current research seems to suggest that DHA competes for space with EPA in the brain. There is only a small amount of EPA in the brain at any given moment and it is continually used up. Since EPA can be converted quite easily to DHA by the body when needed it makes sense to supplement only EPA as long as brain development is complete. The presence of any DHA in a supplement appears to diminish the effectiveness of EPA in regards to mood etc. But as others have written here, I think it really is a case of trying different formulas to get the effect you need. Here is another article that caught my eye.

http://www.mind1st.co.uk/EPADHA.asp

#10 nameless

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:05 PM

Since EPA can be converted quite easily to DHA by the body when needed it makes sense to supplement only EPA as long as brain development is complete.


Anyone have data as to the rate EPA can convert to DHA in the body?

I assumed it was the other way around, DHA->EPA being easier, EPA->DHA a bit more diffcult, while ALA->DHA being somewhat minimal, due to the number of bonds in each fatty acid.

#11 brundall

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:23 AM

Since EPA can be converted quite easily to DHA by the body when needed it makes sense to supplement only EPA as long as brain development is complete.


Anyone have data as to the rate EPA can convert to DHA in the body?

I assumed it was the other way around, DHA->EPA being easier, EPA->DHA a bit more diffcult, while ALA->DHA being somewhat minimal, due to the number of bonds in each fatty acid.


Sorry, I got that quote fro the second article I posted where it says the following, no idea if this is actually the case as it is not a medical paper.

Conversion

So what happens if the body becomes deficient of DHA? The professor goes on to describe that the body can convert EPA into DHA, as it is only two steps down the chain of ecosanoids. This is a process the body can do relatively easily. The body can also convert DHA into EPA, but our bodies struggle to make this conversion and it is not a very efficient process.

A good example of this would be with flaxseed oil, that is high in the omega 3 parent fatty acid ALA (alphalinoic acid); to obtain roughly 1 gram of EPA, you would have to ingest 11 grams of flaxseed oil.

#12 nameless

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:40 AM

Sorry, I got that quote fro the second article I posted where it says the following, no idea if this is actually the case as it is not a medical paper.

Yep.

They also happen to sell an EPA only supplement, so I expect some bias there. I'll have to dig around on pubmed one day when I have time, as I'm curious now.

#13 Matt79

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:15 AM

Sorry, I got that quote fro the second article I posted where it says the following, no idea if this is actually the case as it is not a medical paper.

Yep.

They also happen to sell an EPA only supplement, so I expect some bias there. I'll have to dig around on pubmed one day when I have time, as I'm curious now.


Let me know what you find :)

#14 neogenic

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:10 PM

This is confusing. For years I believed what AOR says EPA over DHA. 8:1 and 4:1 products were selling well in the life extension realm. Then companies more recently claim 50:50 is what's ideal or some are saying high DHA and low EPA. And there seems to be less EPA focused products on the market.

A shifting "tide" on fish oil, so to speak...I would love to hear more discussion on this.

#15 Klyde Chroma

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:19 PM

I don't need to read any literature to know without a doubt that High EPA is the way to go. It was suggested to me by a doctor awhile back to take in as much as I could afford essentially to assist in rehabilitating me after a plethora of health problems.... The affect on my mood was astounding, but what proved even stranger was that prior to this, I had been taking fish oil of a high DHA variety with little to no noted impact on my conditions or mood... Only problem is high EPA oils are always more pricy, though truly its a minor concesion to make in light of the benefits in my oppinion.
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#16 choqueiro

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 08:54 AM

Hi.

I´ve been using for a while an omega 3 product call "Algatrium Plus". This product has more DHA than EPA. I thought that more quantity of DHA will be better. Each capsule of this product has: 350 mg. of DHA; 31 mg. of EPA and 19 mg. of other Omega 3. For more details see: http://www.brudy.net...lus-en-capsulas

I´ve been investigating about omega 3 and found that epa could be more beneficial. Everything I could say is already in this thread:http://www.longecity...-formulas-only/

Many studies show that epa in adults could be more beneficial than dha. The most important is that epa and dha "fight" each other, so mixed formulations may not be the most suitable thing. So after a little investiagation I decide to try a product that only has epa, well, e-epa (a highly purified and more poten version of epa). So I discontinued the "Algatrium Plus" and start taking only the e-epa product. This product has 650 mg. of e-epa (90%). In comparison to "Algatrium Plus", this product is the opposite (only epa instead of only dha). For more details see: http://www.biovita.f...=products&id=21

I´ve been using this e-epa product for a while. I take two capsules per day. I´m a person with anxiety and depression. Two days ago and after a daily consumption of e-epa during five months, I ended my last box, and decided to try another time the "Algatrium Plus". The difference for me is very noticeable. When we talk about omega 3 products I think that we can´t expect enormous changes but at least noticeable effects. The only I can say is that my general mood is by far better with the e-epa product.

I have a question, I find threads and pages that said that the conversion from dha to epa is more easy to our bodies than the conversion from epa to dha and others that said the opposite (in this thread nameless and brundall have also the same doubt). Any evidence of what conversion is easiest??

Thanks
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#17 hippocampus

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 01:12 PM

I tried try types of fish oil:
(1) EPA: DHA ratio: 3: 2 - moderate improvement after few months, feeling emotionally stable
(2) more DHA than EPA - feeling confused and depressed after two or three days
(3) EPA: DHA ratio: 5:1 - no more improvement than 3: 2 ratio but much more expensive
so for me the answer is clear: usual fish oil is just fine for
only EPA may not be the best because DHA lowers blood pressure, EPA does not - at least in my case ...

#18 nameless

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 05:55 PM


I have a question, I find threads and pages that said that the conversion from dha to epa is more easy to our bodies than the conversion from epa to dha and others that said the opposite (in this thread nameless and brundall have also the same doubt). Any evidence of what conversion is easiest??

Thanks


You can check pubmed to see if they have any studies showing the exact conversion rates. I recall reading DHA -> EPA is easier than the reverse, but never bookmarked where I read it.

I'm also going by the fact that ALA converts to EPA much more easily than ALA to DHA, as a comparison.

Here is a study link for that:
http://www.dhaomega3...o-DHA-in-Humans

There are also a bunch of general EPA/DHA studies at the same site, at:
http://www.dhaomega3...mega-3-Research

They have separate study sections for mental health and cognitive function too.

#19 Chris_T_Malta

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:22 AM

I use 330mg:220mg (EPA:DHA) Omega 3 supplement and for some reason whenever I take one I feel sleepy and tired. In fact I take them before going to sleep. Could there be a connection with the topic here? Maybe I should try an EPA-only supplement and verify if it has the same effects.



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#20 Logic

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:40 PM

Note that there is some evidence that DHA downregulates FOXO, while EPA upregulates it.

 

See from here down:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=552540

 

Note the info on EPA rich oils further down in that thread too.

 

Has anyone found an EPA rich Krill oil extract with astaxanthin in it? 

 






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