422 replies to this topic

[soulfiremage]

I've written to Keith as I'm interested in getting a 4x1 electrode set, x 2 plus a device with the appropriate channel setup to do it.

I got quite a knock back from some company today who, for whatever reason, will not sell outside of the "professional" world. Guess they don't have a need for a wider market, which is a fucking shame. Still as a result I do feel I'd like to try harder to get a tRNS machine and have more focal HD electrodes.

Right now I'm running off of a rather highly stimulated left dlpfc and parietal lobes (l and r) - I found calculations to be faster as a result!

Would prefer not to be either inhibiting other parts or wearing a chin pad when doing it!!

[Reformed-Redan]

UPDATE.

I'm currently using the anode over F3

UPDATE.

I'm currently using the anode over F3 and cathode supra-orbital to right eyebrow. It's 18 minutes into this session and I accidentally switched cathod and anode with the above areas and felt really off. Now that I got the setup correctly placed at the correct polarities I feel very "awake". Just without any jitteriness.

[Reformed-Redan]

Hi, I'm currently using the tDCS placement setup with the cathode on FP2 and anode on F3. Can someone please tell me if this setup enhances or inhibits mathematical reasoning. I'm thinking it may inhibit mathematical reasoning because the right pariental lobe is being inhibited? Can someone list the different sponge placements for math, reasoning, depression, and working memory. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Edited by yadayada, 18 May 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[soulfiremage]

Try cathode extra cranial-under the chin for example or back of neck. Larger electrode.

Anodal stim of the left AND right parietal is a good plan for your maths.

Left temporal and broca for linguistics.
Right temporal, anterior for visual recognition etc

left dlpfc association/working memory/concentration etc avoid right (right handed people) anodal because that is avoidance behaviours and feels not so nice.

[lester1]

I noticed study after study no professionals go over 3ma of current. So to keep it safe I do 2.5ma and 20 minute time limit. Oh and avoid CAFFINE at all costs. I noticed when I drink coffee the same day as a tdcs session I get a bad headache.

[soulfiremage]

That's idiopathic and may even be just your placement combo and your reaction. Never had this.

Gave someone minor savant style experience, inhibit left temporal, excite right, ten mins 2mA. Interesting abstracts he drew. Very fast.

[alecnevsky]

Hi, I'm currently using the tDCS placement setup with the cathode on FP2 and anode on F3. Can someone please tell me if this setup enhances or inhibits mathematical reasoning. I'm thinking it may inhibit mathematical reasoning because the right pariental lobe is being inhibited? Can someone list the different sponge placements for math, reasoning, depression, and working memory. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Dude let us know how this works insofar as math. Are you doing right to left brain parietal stim?


BTW why did you go with this device? I saw some kids make a $99.00 somewhere but I lost it b/c I was in an exam crunch.

[Reformed-Redan]

Hi, I'm currently using the tDCS placement setup with the cathode on FP2 and anode on F3. Can someone please tell me if this setup enhances or inhibits mathematical reasoning. I'm thinking it may inhibit mathematical reasoning because the right pariental lobe is being inhibited? Can someone list the different sponge placements for math, reasoning, depression, and working memory. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Dude let us know how this works insofar as math. Are you doing right to left brain parietal stim?


BTW why did you go with this device? I saw some kids make a $99.00 somewhere but I lost it b/c I was in an exam crunch.

I'ts really strange with math. For everything else the FP2 cathode and F3 cathode setup works really well. When it comes to math I don't know how to describe it. It's too early;but, the feeling is that you get stuck in a mindset with the FP2 and F3 setup that doesn;t work well with thinking in new ways or having those "aha" moments that you need when understanding math problems. Don't know if that means anything. You just become more good at what you already do with the FP2 F3 setup; but, it's harder to shift to new learned material or stuff like that. There were some studies showing something along these lines mentioned on tdcs reedit I think.

[Reformed-Redan]

Check:
http://www.wired.com...ve-enhancement/

[Reformed-Redan]

Check:
http://www.wired.com...ve-enhancement/

This is kind of worrying. I think I might just stick with the FP2 cathode and F3 anode setup until there's more research.

One interesting things about the FP2 cathode setup. I was interested in Lucid dreaming some time back but gave up on all the time that had to be put with the Reality checking and dream journals. What's interesting is that when I was all into lucid dreaming I found out Brodmann area 46 is responsible for lucid dreaming. Broadmanns area 46 is deactivated during sleep. Brodmann area 46 is the DLPFC and when I was doing the FP2 cathode F3 anode detup the first day I noticed some of the most intense dreams in a long time. Everything was really realistic as if I did a bunch of RC's and keept a dream journal for a long time. Was a cool side effect; but, I'm not into that stuff anymore.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodmann_area_46

[alecnevsky]

Yeah i read the wired articles. You should be doing right to left parietal for math though as per Oxford study. Which subreddit ?

[lester1]

I read that article and I think the reason why there are drawbacks to other parts of the brain is because the cathode - actually draws electricity from one area and pumps it to the anode+. What if you used all anode+ to the brain and the cathode on your arm or something? I will add once again while your doing TDCS to stay away from CAFFINE. I normally feel fine after tdcs but this week I had a cup a coffee at work and my head hurt all day.

[Dashwolf]

For anyone who's interested the biocurrent kit is back in stock today. Got mine for $200 shipped. Unfortunately, it's only shipping within the US right now.

http://www.biocurren...biocurrent-kit/

[IA87]

Has anyone here noticed profound positive effects using tDCS? What areas did you stimulate, and how did you determine these areas?

[alexburke]

They showed TDCS on through the wormhole with morgan freeman
Its the last 15 minutes of the subconscious episode.

I found a USB TDCS for only 25 dollars.
http://tdcs-kit.com/

Found that website just in time.. I was about to give up and buy foc.us for 300 dollars.

[jayfoxpox]

looks like a good deal. I wonder what modifications can be done to change to adjust current on it through , since it only delivers a constant 2maH. I'd like to beable to use it on 0.5,1 , and 1.5.

It's 30 bucks btw.

I wonder if you can adjust the current going through the usb to change it.

Edited by jayfoxpox, 14 June 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[alexburke]

They must of upped it after I bought it. Sorry :P
Wondering what would work to keep the things in place?
String? Tape? String/tape safe?

[lourdaud]

Just got the kit from http://biocurrentkit.com/ and I'm testing it as I'm writing this. The kit is very simple but seems to be everything you need and Keith, the guy behind it, was very helpful and shipped the stuff immediately. Will report back later!

Btw, I had ordered one from foc.us before which I cancelled and at first there didn't seem to be any problems as they said they would give me a refund at once. Got a confirmation from PayPal as well, however this confirmation was empty and when checking my bank account one week later they still hadn't refunded my money. First after complaining and threatening with measures they sent me the money but they were acting as if they had given me the refund from the beginning, sending me screenshots from their PayPal account with a note that did not correspond with the one that was in the confirmation I got.
I don't know, maybe they're all cool and there will be no hustle but seems kind of fishy to me, so at least I'd advice you to be wary if you've ordered from them..

[electricmonk500]

Gave someone minor savant style experience, inhibit left temporal, excite right, ten mins 2mA. Interesting abstracts he drew. Very fast.

Could you expand on this in some more detail? I think I may want to try it out myself. What sort of things was he drawing? Could you post a picture of it? What was his skill in drawing beforehand? Have you tried this on yourself? etc. etc.

[hlgaskins]

Hm! Interesting thread. I find the discussions of diy devices to be quite interesting since that's how I got started. At first I went with the basic design of battery and inline resistor but I became concerned about consistency of supplied current and I also became concerned that the fuse might no blow faster than my head if something went wrong.I've read dozens of research articles which included measures of 1, 1.5, and 2.0mA and in study after study the optimum current was daily at 2.0mA for 20 to 30 minutes. I have an online acquaintance who's inolved in tdcs studies (using a Soterix) with a focus on working memory (Fp1 anode and Fp2 Cathode) which is also an area that I'm focusing on. After several discussions it came to my attention that I may not be certain of what I'm actually getting with a self made rig so I sprung for a unit made by Trans Cranial Technologies which is high priced, but worth it if you can afford it, and I could. The unit is designed to measure and monitor the exact resistance and voltage and then make adjustments as needed to maintain a constant 2.0 mA. On more than one occassion I received a dry sponge warning and the unit automatically shut down so that I could moisten my sponge electrodes. It also monitors resistance and will shut down if it is out of range. I began wondering just how many sessions were rendered useless without me knowing about it. So if it's possible for you guys to monitor resistance and mA output it might be a good idea to include it in your designs. HLG

Edited by hlgaskins, 28 June 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[lester1]

What would be the point of monitoring resistance and mA output? If your doing DIY like I am its making sure the resistor does not break. I stopped using TDCS for a month May 20- June 20th and my depression came slowly back. I started again 20 minute sessions at 2.6ma and in 1 day it was gone. TDCS truly works and I am so grateful for blog like this where I learned what to do. I noticed 1 week tdcs session last for a month. Then you have to do it again. It does not last. Also DO NOT USE CAFFINE the days you to a tdcs session. For me I have gotten a bad headache.

[hlgaskins]

"What would be the point of monitoring resistance and mA output?"

It's important to monitor resistance and mA output, because a change in resistance is a change in electrical output. If your sponge electrode begins to dry then it can limit (impede) how much voltage passes through the circuit and ergo how much enters your head. The higher the impedance the lower the current output which could mean that your output may not be optimal which happesn more often than you might imagine. Also if the salinity of your saline solution is either high or low it has the potential to raise or lower resistance which turn raises or lowers current. I measure my saline solution using an electronic scale that accurate to miligrams to get things right on and even then I get variations in resistance. I have no doubt that your experience with TDCS has benefited you and I applaud you for taking things into your own hands. My purpose is however for personal enhancement as well as finding a means to enhance people with learning disabilities. In your case I would suggest that you lower your current to 2.0 mA and increase your times to 25 or even 30 minutes. There is no evidence that a higher current offers benfits but there strong evidence to suggest that 2.0 mA treatments for 30 minutes are effective. HLG

[jayfoxpox]

do you guys just mix salt and filtered water for your saline solution? and how salty would you use? I plan on using a 0.9% saline solution using filtered water and sea salt.

[hlgaskins]

I use filtered mineral free water since minerals can decrease resitance (check ohms law). you can find distilled water in most large grocery stores which is ideal for making your mix. Then all you need to do is add 9 grams of table salt to 1 liter of water (.9% per 1000 ml. I heat my water to just below boling point and then mix in the salt.

[lester1]

Saline does not make a difference. A wet sponge will be good enough.

[hlgaskins]

"Saline does not make a difference. A wet sponge will be good enough."

Not true! Purified water alone has no conductivity whatsoever, it's the minerals in water that allow current flow. In many areas tap water is mineral rich which could make it too conductively rich, but to what degree? And how can you factor the resistance to current flow if you don't know the impedance to current ratio? Electrical current fluctuates up or down depending on impedance. If the impedance is too low then the current could be too high and if the impedance is too high then the current could be too low which renders the treatment ineffective. With many homemade tDCS devices it's virtually impossible to track resistance and current flow unless the device can be set to adjust resistance to current on the fly. By creating a measure of water to mineral content, it's possible to at least calculate the resistance within a reasonable degree of error. There's a reason why 100% of all tDCS researchers use a demineralized solvent (distilled water) and salt to obtain consistently in conductivity.

Saline makes all the difference if you want to create a controlled circuit.

Edited by hlgaskins, 03 July 2013 - 03:13 AM.

[lester1]

I measured the voltage of the wet sponge with a voltimeter. No difference in voltage level or ma. saline or no saline.

[hlgaskins]

We're not discussing volts we're discussing milli/amperes (current) or if you're referring to a fomula then "i" (Ohm's law eqation formula): V = I × R and the power law equation (formula): P = I × V.) The only way there is no difference between a sponge soaked with saline and tap water is if the mineral content of your tap water and saline solution have the exact same resistance. If you've used saline and and not rinsed your sponge in demineralized water then it's possible that your sponge has built up saline content. Now answer this question. If all that's required to carry a steady 2.0 mA is a sponge moistened with tap water, then why are 100% of all researchers and medical professional using saline exclusively. The use saline because it's been proven to be an effective conductor for current. Distilled water would carry almost no current at all and water that is 100% mineral free won't conduct any electrcity at all. In effect perfectly purified water becomes an insulator. It's the mineral content that makes water conductive. Now consider how much the mineral content of water varies by location alone. Distilled water and and salt is the best way to regulate current flow through sponge elctrodes.

The resistance on my meter rises as my sponge becomes dryer. My goal is to try to keep reistance around 4kohms (but it often drops below 3Kohms) and over time it can rise to 5.5kohms. Without the unit being able to compensalte for resistance this is what would happen. Using an online calculator I got: At 3kohms we get 6000V and 2.0mA (16000 watts), at 2kohms we get 6000V and 3.0mA (too high) (12000 watts), at 4kohms we get 6000V and 1.5mA (9000 watts) (too low), At 5kohms we get 6000V and (7200 watts)1.2 mA. The only number manipulated was resistance and as you can see as resitance is lowered the current "I" rises along with wattage but there was no change in voltage whatsover.

Edited by hlgaskins, 04 July 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[hlgaskins]

I sometimes get carried away so here's a link to a website that explains very clearly without getting over complicated.

http://www.stevenswa...ivity_info.html

[lester1]

Well I have not been using any saline because I don't like to get that stuff on my head. Its kinda sticky. I just use wet sponges. The results still are amazing. One week of tdcs for 20 minutes and I feel great for a month. Then after a month of no tdcs the depression and anxiety comes roaring back. not slowly, im talking full blown.