422 replies to this topic

[soulfiremage]

I shall try some of these:

http://www.mindalive.../article 11.pdf

Worthwhile read for alternative placements.

[lester1]

I attach a paperclip on each end of the wires. I then put a small strip of duct tape over the paperclip. I put the exposed metal side of the paperclip directly on the wet sponges. I have been using a baseball hat to hold the sponges in place on my head.. I don't do any activities when I am stimulating my brain. I sit back relax and listen to classic music.

[soulfiremage]

Im sat here on my fifth stim of the day, this time cathode on neck anode on occipital lobes.

My brother? I just done a video of him using a tens machine that happens to show mA on the dial.

It goes to 60mA his electrodes are 4x4 and he stopped turning it up when he got a headache real fast. He's settled on 25mA right now.

He's playing command and conquer. I'm not sure he was all that sane before I started today. Sure ain't now!

Dunno what will happen as the tens is pulses...

Think he might turn into a brain hacker...or a vegetable.

[formergenius]

Hmm strange. Tried tDCS twice yesterday to no effect. I just did a session with 1950 uA output (but 650 uA with everything attached)... I'm feeling like I just had my first cup of coffee or something. Not as awesome as my first session but it's definitely coming close. Strange how I started out thinking of how I might be screwing my brain over or damaging it (screw anxiety, it's so irrational), but now I'm feeling decent... and a lot more alive! Huzaah. Bad timing though.. it's midnight. I think if I'm going to continue tDCS, I'm going to do it in the mornings. Just feel energized I suppose, not clear per se, but definitely some form of silence in my head.

I'll post details in the morning, feel like I might ramble like a fool if I keep typing now. Cheers.

EDIT: strange how these "flashes" out of derealization are so transient.. I wonder what would make it last. Perhaps I'm just barely reaching the responsible brain area, and thus the effect is of such short duration... gonna play around a but, perhaps but the anode a bit more forward.

Edited by formergenius, 12 May 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[soulfiremage]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.caren.uqa...Paulus-2011.pdf

In particular limits to anodal stimulation effects @ >26 mins. Seems that excitation switches over to inhibition.

[lester1]

Yes a DIY tdcs should cost you around $10. Big pharma does not like this. the biggest issue of tdcs is perception. My wife thinks im nuts for putting a tiny amount of voltage through my head. I will tell you I was desperate for something to cure my depression and anxiety and tdcs suppresses it. It does not cure my mental conditions but it is so much better than taking drugs in my opinion.

[formergenius]

Last night I took 2,5g of Phenibut cause I just couldn't sleep for the life of me. Damn I should've waited after 1,5mg, cause I'm basically drunk now.
Anyways, after my coffee I'm gonna see whether tDCS can reverse some of the inhibition. In other words, I think I read a report on SpeakWisdom about some guy drinking Guinness and then reversing the effects by tDCS.

I'm hoping to be able to walk in a straight line, cause I need to go places. Think I'm gonna throw Phenibut out, this is just lame. First time I used the stuff in a month anyway.. Rather buy some Kava for the restless nights.

Anyways I'll report back if tDCS affects this whooziness.

[Godof Smallthings]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.caren.uqa...Paulus-2011.pdf

In particular limits to anodal stimulation effects @ >26 mins. Seems that excitation switches over to inhibition.

Interesting and useful - thanks! More is not always more.

[Godof Smallthings]

Is anybody aware of a good source for d-cycloserine online (trials show it prolongs the non-selective plasticicty effects of the anodal stimulation 20 times)?

[soulfiremage]

Has anyone seen this?

I've ordered mine: https://order.foc.us...3f2cdf-58635209

However, they have taken money immediately - I've sent an inquiry about this and will let you all know what they say.I'm only mildly concerned - I wouldn't have ordered if I can't front it, just not used to paying in advance on a pre order.

I've also sent an inquiry about the statement of cathodal stimulation as the information does not look correct or complete. I'll document as appropriate.

[formergenius]

soulfireimage: a thousand thankyous! I applied for the mailing list, but never received the order details, or any details for that matter. Even wrote an email to Mike himself.
I'll be ordering this in the next few days!

Regarding my experiment today: 15 minutes of tDCS did nothing for my Phenibut-induced sedation. I was just barely able to make an important appointment, had to repeat myself several times. Oh well.

[Absent]

I'm sort of curious about looking into DIY TMS(Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation)

[soulfiremage]

Right, first off, Mike - even at this time of night, is bouncing emails back to me. Seems the website is slightly in error.

Here is his email:


To: Richard G

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your order and for pointing out our error.

The foc.us headset actually does both, as you can switch the polarity using the app. But I will have the wording on the website corrected and expanded.

Thanks
Michael

soulfireimage: a thousand thankyous! I applied for the mailing list, but never received the order details, or any details for that matter. Even wrote an email to Mike himself.
I'll be ordering this in the next few days!

Regarding my experiment today: 15 minutes of tDCS did nothing for my Phenibut-induced sedation. I was just barely able to make an important appointment, had to repeat myself several times. Oh well.

Can you illustrate your positioning, electrode size, duration and current mA?

I've done further reading and anodal electrode size is quite important - but reducing the size means your measurements will have to be more precise. If you had any hot spots, this will alter - probably render ineffective - the current distribution through to the brain in any case.

As for the reponse to emails, I suspect that due to Monday 13th being the release day and that I only got my order notification an hour ago - Mike is rather busy.

Pricing is pretty good, especially when you compare it to anything else out there for this purpose.

I'm sort of curious about looking into DIY TMS(Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation)

Lemme know how it goes. My understanding is that it would be harder to accurately focus this without being about to do qEEQ analysis? I could also be talking crap as I've not dug into TMS at all as the TDCS looks a lot easier to do at home.

Edited by soulfiremage, 14 May 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[paul]

I also took the plunge and ordered from foc.us last night, I was initially very skeptical but the evidence is impressive and compared to the cost of cerebrolysin this is an investment I felt I had to make. They are offering an extra pack, which has anode electrodes and different settings but could not find any info on this. Does anyone know whether extra anode leads would make a difference? Only downside is it won't be ready till July, can anyone list the parts you would need to build one from parts you can get in a UK electrical store, ,most of the info on reddit talks about radio shack parts, has anyone built one from scratch or know where online you can get the details of parts without knowing much about electronics? I love the fact there is an ipad app for it, that sold it for me!

[amark]

Go to www.diytdcs. Scroll down you will find an inexpensive diagram for making a machine using crds. You will also find every talk and study known to man (well maybe). i use a Chattanooga ionto machine with amrex electrodes.

To the person using tens and 25ma . STOP! 2ma seems to be the usual safe current. Tens units are not the same as iontophoresis units. just build a cheap crd unit get some leads. Replace any clips with bannana plugs ( I go the Radio Shack non solder ones. Good Luck.

[soulfiremage]

That person is my brother and he's fine. Not sure how useful pulsed currents really would be mind! And the resistance at the electrodes would be different for sure.

146mA it took to lesion a rat brain so he's maybe ok, just not getting much out of it due to the configuration - and I certainly don't condone this method as it's totally untried in every way as far as I can see.

[soulfiremage]

Are there any programmers on here who also use tdcs?

I'm interested in working out what would help with programming - both in the learning and once a level of proficiency is attained, the using.

[formergenius]

Siro: there's some guy on the Youtubes doing just that I believe.
paul: It won't get much easier than this. It lists all the parts, and regardless of the electronics store you go to, you can just give them the part # and they'll either have it, or order it.
soulfireimage: yeah.. I was impatient. Got the e-mail last night
My positioning etc. was the same as always: two 35cm² electrodes (newly made, the old ones were corroded), anode at F3 and cathode at Fp2. Except I only stimulated for 15 minutes, because I had to make a phone call before 5 pm, and it was 4:55pm. Output mA seemed 700uA once connected, but unconnected it displayed 1900 uA. I'm gonna go check my mailbox now and see if I have the CRD yet. Also contrapted another small burn again cause I was to lazy to wet the sponges when they dried up. A hole in the sponge allowed the plate to press against my forhead when the spong went dry.

[soulfiremage]

The quality of the electrode connection is second only to the placement when it comes to determining the effectiveness of your TDCS session. So being a little finicky about this would be prudent.I use saline soaked sponges that were supplied with my device and ensure they are really well connected to my scalp. Any discomfort or burn sensation means the current is ALL flowing through one spot so wasting the session and burning your skin.

Once you have the box sorted out, the electrodes themselves in terms of quality, connectivity and size are really quite crucial. If it's uncomfortable, it's likely wrong and ineffective.

I watched a fascinating lecture series this morning on this subject and it seems the current flow is not quite as we thought and far wider in scope.

[soulfiremage]

http://www.diytdcs.c...rode-placement/

Lecture series that may cause a few of us to review our montages.

[formergenius]

soulfireimage: nice one! I initially overlooked this lecture because someone commented it was basically ranting about obesity. So not true.
So... who's up for designing a HD-tDCS DIY instructional? :D
I suppose simpley making five 2cm radius sponge electrodes wouldn't be quite the same? Looks like they put quite some work into making those electrodes.
Furthermore, re-calculating current density would be essential to safety, and I suppose different rules apply to safety maximums (with probably more shunting calculated in etc. etc.) I'll scavenge the net for some DIY HD-tDCS later.

Ohh and thanks for the advice. I'll make some new sponges, and reconsider my shoe-lace strapping method.. Yeah it's really ghetto style, I just put electrical tape around two shoelaces, tied in a bowline, and tightened accordingly. This way however there's not an even pressure along the sponge, but merely down the center. Maybe I'll make a wooden pad with 4 holes drilled into the corners, connect shoelaces, tie two knots on either side creating a V intersection, and have the lace from the intersection be the binding strap... damn that's hard to explain. Either way, I'll try to even out sponge pressure.
Regarding the copper touching the skin: my first succesful session also burned me in a similar way, yet the sponge was properly moist, so perhaps resulting in less focality yada yada yada.

Perhaps ATA can give us some insight on HD-tDCS electrodes? Trying to read through the site, and no offense, but it's kind of hard to extrapolate for me what is trying to be conveyed in some texts.

Lastly.. Have you seen the electrodes on the Foc.Us? They seem relatively small.. I would assume the current is divided over 2 electrodes, but it looks like it has a 3cm radius with each electrode, so even it they were squares that's 2000uA/18cm²=111uA/cm², which is relatively high, and over the 80mA/cm² safety limit. Obviously my calculation is flawed, but I'd like to know the working of the Foc.Us. It is cool that you could attach extra electrodes, leaving more room to play around. Also I'll need to get an iPhone before getting full potential apparantly. Just great.

[soulfiremage]

Patience on the iPhone, I'm sure there's an android app coming.

It's 2/18 so it's 0.111uA/cm squared. Which is fine.

Now go get some poly morph plastic, not wood. It melts at low temp and is ideal for moulding casing, pad backings and all sorts. Low enough to mould body parts.

Look at 4x1 electrodes in the vids. Split the cathode out to four wires and attach electrodes. Leave the positive as single. You can do focal stuff with that....

Also try Velcro and elastic, eBay

I have this sort of gear as I do make bondage stuff sometimes :P

[OpaqueMind]

Apparently Out-of-body experiences can be induced via electrical stimulation... http://iands.org/res...the-brain.html. I'm not sure if it would work with tDCS but maybe one of you guys could give it a go?

[ATA]

HD tdcs electrodes you can go up to 500uA/cm2 maybe even more but this work only in ideal condition prepared skin ideal conductive gel.From my test is usable range for sponge electrodes to 250uA/cm2 nad for EEG gel to 350uA/cm2 . Stil its only few test and its needed improve in some test can go up to 600uA/cm2 without any sensation.Even this high current densities not dameg the bran in the brain is electric field on similar level like in normal tdcs but problem is skin.

i must find good protocol to skin claning this take some time .

electrode size comercial product use 3,14cm2 or 4,5cm2 i use 4,9cm2 because i find construction parts of this size and its reduce current density. Ideal size for heme usage may be even litle biger but higly depend on aplication. With smaller electrode is harder target the hotspot. Best option its try this with larger lectrode and in next trials with smaller ony and changing location for best result .

4x1 configuration joined cathode is very rude option the current not be equal but targeting be still many times better than in normal tDCS
next step is buld device with at least 5 chnnels

--
i know about OOBE aplication but still waiting for better HD-TDCS also have some plabns use TDCS to induce lucid dreaming

[soulfiremage]

ATA I'm wanting 4x1 electrodes as well - though I doubt I need anything other than the machine I have, single channel as long as I get the wiring right!

[ATA]

Is there anyone who have 4 multimetrs ? to measure current in 4x1 configuration (current for each of four cathodes)

how big is difference ?
time change ?

If diffence be stabe is there a posibility add a resistor to asure each "arm" will have 1/4 of total current

[Krell]

What is the relationship between tDCS and TRNS (transcranial random noise stimulation)?

http://www.longecity.../page__hl__trns

http://www.scienceda...30516123912.htm

[Reformed-Redan]

Hey guys my tDCS device arrived yesterday and thought I'd do an unboxing for the forum.
Here are some picks from he unboxing
:


Opening the box delivered by FedEx

Checking whats in there. The packing was superb. Top notch.

Headband and even two 9v batteries included. Not many suppliers do that.

The three devices that give an output of 1ma, 1.5ma, and 2ma respectively with the wiring.

Here are the AMREX pads in brand new condition, obviously.

Headband the rest of the gear together.

Laid it all out for a better view. Man, those 9v batteries are nice and heavy.

Closeup.

More eyecandy.



Here are the instruction on how to connect the battery kit to the module.

Following the instructions gives the above picture.

Headband and pads together .

The design was very elegant and all the wires fit snugly into their sockets. The device works as there is an output of 2ma in this setup. It is very lightweight and non obtrusive design. So, I think the $185 was worth it. The supplier of 'biocurrentkit' is a nice fellow called, (Keith Spaulding), who has a youtube presentation with a similar devicecan be found here. He is a professional electrical engineer and responded very promptly to my e-mails about the specifications. All in all, this setup goes above and beyond what is on the market at the moment and it's cheaper too. I have no complains and am a happy customer.

I'll be posting a log of my experience with tDCS latter on. Right now I have a hangover, lol.

Edited by yadayada, 16 May 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[lourdaud]

The design was very elegant and all the wires fit snugly into their sockets. The device works as there is an output of 2ma in this setup. It is very lightweight and non obtrusive design. So, I think the $185 was worth it. The supplier of 'biocurrentkit' is a nice fellow called, (Keith Spaulding), who has a youtube presentation with a similar devicecan be found here. He is a professional electrical engineer and responded very promptly to my e-mails about the specifications. All in all, this setup goes above and beyond what is on the market at the moment and it's cheaper too. I have no complains and am a happy customer.

I'll be posting a log of my experience with tDCS latter on. Right now I have a hangover, lol.

What does this device have that others do not? Just curious!

Edited by lourdaud, 17 May 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

The design was very elegant and all the wires fit snugly into their sockets. The device works as there is an output of 2ma in this setup. It is very lightweight and non obtrusive design. So, I think the $185 was worth it. The supplier of 'biocurrentkit' is a nice fellow called, (Keith Spaulding), who has a youtube presentation with a similar devicecan be found here. He is a professional electrical engineer and responded very promptly to my e-mails about the specifications. All in all, this setup goes above and beyond what is on the market at the moment and it's cheaper too. I have no complains and am a happy customer.

I'll be posting a log of my experience with tDCS latter on. Right now I have a hangover, lol.

What does this device have that others do not? Just curious!

It has everything they have and 3 modules to deliver 1ma, 1.5ma, and 2ma all at a lower price. The current is also stable so you don't get flashes.