52 replies to this topic

[nowayout]

Too much muscle is as harmful as too much fat, ...

I find that very hard to believe. Could you substantiate it?

[renfr]

Too much muscle is as harmful as too much fat, ...

I find that very hard to believe. Could you substantiate it?

To maintain huge muscles one would have to take loads of protein, loads of supplements and even use steroids which is why I say it's harmful, kidneys and liver have to process huge amounts of protein and steroids will eventually cause cardiac hypertrophy and lowered heart ejection fraction.
Not even talking about those who take diuretics which makes the matter even worse.
I personally usually make the difference between bodybuilders who try to push themselves to their limits and culturists who sculpt their body for the sake of aesthetics.

[xks201]

Its probably not anymore toxic than eating mcdonalds daily. Dorian yates said after ten years of steroid abuse he had better bloodwork than a month of the supersize me guy eating mcdonald s.

[Raptor87]

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick. Doctors just want to make people relate premature death with roids so nobody will use them but they are not mentioning which roids nor what science that support these claims. I think it's the wrong way - - trying to instill fear in people. Back in the 70's oral testosterone was sold as a natural supplement in the nearest pharmacy in Sweden - - do you know how many people should have died! The problems came with abuse and oral steroids are commonly known to cause livertumors. Overdosing HGH causes heart growth, condition training along with HGH causes heart growth, some oral steroids are toxic for the heart. Testosterone raises body calories, and lowers natural production of certain hormones temporarily.

I think that hormone replacement therapy can even help people who are aging, but that's due to medical reasons. Steroids are not that bad as people would like to think. The problems arise when people abuse them, take them without knowing what they are doing or when steroids starts taking over sports. Do you know how much money sports generate? These doctors are doing right by keeping roids out from sports, they are just using the wrong methods.

[nupi]

Do you know how much money sports generate? These doctors are doing right by keeping roids out from sports, they are just using the wrong methods.

Arguably allowing steroids would be more honest and likely less dangerous to athletes than the current game of using largely untested research chemicals to evade doping tests... People who want to harm themselves will do so, either way.

[RJ23_1989]

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick.

I think these guys would disagree with you..

Mike Mentzer died 2001 age 49 heart complications
Ray Mentzer died 2001 age 47 Berger's disease(build-up of cholesterol plaques in the arteries), endocarditis (an infection of the lining of the heart)
Ron Teufel died 2002 age 45 liver failure
Scott Klein died 2003 age 30 kidney failure and heart failure
Sonny Schmidt died 2004 age 51 cancer
Robert Benavente 2004 age 30 massive heart attack
Charles Durr 2005 age 44 enlarged heart
Don Youngblood 2005 age 51 massive heart attack
Paul Demayo 2005 age 38 heroin overdose
Fannie Barrios 2005 age 41 (female) apparent stroke
Eric Otero 2006 age 37 infection in his tooth that entered his bloodstream
Eduardo Kawak 2006 age 47 heart attack
Rob Sager 2007 age 29 HEART FAILURE
Greg Deferro 2007 age 53 heart disease
Dan Puckett 2007 age 22 heart condition
Shelley Beattie 2008 age 39 (female) depression for six weeks before she hung herself
Joe Meeko 2009 age 48 Lyme disease
Luke Wood 2011 age 35 kidney failure and heart failure
Carlos Rodriguez 1991 age 48 stomach cancer
Mohammed Benaziza 1992 age 33 he took an injection of clenbuterol
Ray McNeil 1995 age 29 killed by his wife
Andreas Münzer 1996 age 31 liver and then kidneys failed
Johnny Fuller 2006 age 62 cancer
Wilfred Sylvester 2006 age 62 alzheimers
Derrick Whitsett 2004 age 38 heart attack
Trevor Smith 2004 age 33 No official cause but he was 400lbs 6ft 1"
Curtis Leffler 1998 age 36 heart attack
Hans Hopstaken 2002 age 45 unspecified heart condition, or pnuemonia
Art Atwood 2011 age 38 heart attack
Bj johns 1995-1996? age 34 New Zealand Heart attack
lou barrie 2001 age 40 died instantly after a massive heart
Claudia Bianchi 2004 age 34 blocked arteries
Big Boss Man' Ray Traylor 2004 age 41 heart attack
Marianna Komlos 2004 age 35 breast cancer
Luke Iams 2003 age unsure 40's heart attack
Anthony Clark 2005 age 39 massive heart attack
Mannie Hamilton 2005 age 62 heart attack
Roger Estep 2005 brain cancer
John Riggins 2005 age 33 kidneys failed, liver stopped functioning, lungs filling up with fluid and he has pneumonia
John Ware 2005 Age 46 (former PLer; current football coach) heart attack
Doug Young, 2005 age 61, powerlifter massive heart attack
Norm Dabish, 2005 age 46, Co-founder of Powerhouse Gyms. heart attack
Herb Glossbrenner, 2005 age 63, suffers stoke
Steve Courson 2005 Steroid whistle blowers for the NFL http://en.wikipedia....i/Steve_Courson crushed to death
Eddie Guerrero, 2005 age 38. acute heart failure due to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease (artery wall thickens as a result of the accumulation of fatty materials such as cholesterol)
Hans Ossner, 2006 age 64 cancer
Dave Barno, 2006 age 35 dead lifting while back was broken
Russ Knipp 2006 age 63 heart attack

My understanding is in 2013 we have had 12 more well known bodybuilders pass on, including

Nasser El Sonbatey 2013 age 47, Kidney Failure
Casey Viator 2013 age 62, heart attack
Matt Duvall, 2013 age 40 heart attack

And lets not forget those who still hanging on:

Arnold Schwarzenegger triple heart bypass still living
Don Long kidney failure still living
Tom Prince kidney failure still living
Flex Wheeler kidney transplant in 2003 still living
Ed Corney 1999 suffered a heart attack and 2 strokes still living
Boyer Coe August 11th, had quadruple heart bypass surgery. they discovered Boyer's blood that was extremely thick, and three main arteries were almost completely blocked. The doctors performed open heart surgery right then and there he is still living
Danny Padilla survived a heart attack
Mike Martarazzo 39 2004 clogged arteries caused by steroid use(2007 heart attack triple bypass heart surgery) still living

[platypus]

Then there's Jack LaLanne and other fitness-people who have been strong until advanced age. Of course abuse of steroids is dangerous, physiological doses might still be beneficial IMO.

[Unstoppable]

The amount and stacks the pro's take dont really relate to the average steroid cycle tho, just dont overdo it and cycle off as long as youre on at least.

[Raptor87]

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick.

I think these guys would disagree with you..

Mike Mentzer died 2001 age 49 heart complications
Ray Mentzer died 2001 age 47 Berger's disease(build-up of cholesterol plaques in the arteries), endocarditis (an infection of the lining of the heart)
Ron Teufel died 2002 age 45 liver failure
Scott Klein died 2003 age 30 kidney failure and heart failure
Sonny Schmidt died 2004 age 51 cancer
Robert Benavente 2004 age 30 massive heart attack
Charles Durr 2005 age 44 enlarged heart
Don Youngblood 2005 age 51 massive heart attack
Paul Demayo 2005 age 38 heroin overdose
Fannie Barrios 2005 age 41 (female) apparent stroke
Eric Otero 2006 age 37 infection in his tooth that entered his bloodstream
Eduardo Kawak 2006 age 47 heart attack
Rob Sager 2007 age 29 HEART FAILURE
Greg Deferro 2007 age 53 heart disease
Dan Puckett 2007 age 22 heart condition
Shelley Beattie 2008 age 39 (female) depression for six weeks before she hung herself
Joe Meeko 2009 age 48 Lyme disease
Luke Wood 2011 age 35 kidney failure and heart failure
Carlos Rodriguez 1991 age 48 stomach cancer
Mohammed Benaziza 1992 age 33 he took an injection of clenbuterol
Ray McNeil 1995 age 29 killed by his wife
Andreas Münzer 1996 age 31 liver and then kidneys failed
Johnny Fuller 2006 age 62 cancer
Wilfred Sylvester 2006 age 62 alzheimers
Derrick Whitsett 2004 age 38 heart attack
Trevor Smith 2004 age 33 No official cause but he was 400lbs 6ft 1"
Curtis Leffler 1998 age 36 heart attack
Hans Hopstaken 2002 age 45 unspecified heart condition, or pnuemonia
Art Atwood 2011 age 38 heart attack
Bj johns 1995-1996? age 34 New Zealand Heart attack
lou barrie 2001 age 40 died instantly after a massive heart
Claudia Bianchi 2004 age 34 blocked arteries
Big Boss Man' Ray Traylor 2004 age 41 heart attack
Marianna Komlos 2004 age 35 breast cancer
Luke Iams 2003 age unsure 40's heart attack
Anthony Clark 2005 age 39 massive heart attack
Mannie Hamilton 2005 age 62 heart attack
Roger Estep 2005 brain cancer
John Riggins 2005 age 33 kidneys failed, liver stopped functioning, lungs filling up with fluid and he has pneumonia
John Ware 2005 Age 46 (former PLer; current football coach) heart attack
Doug Young, 2005 age 61, powerlifter massive heart attack
Norm Dabish, 2005 age 46, Co-founder of Powerhouse Gyms. heart attack
Herb Glossbrenner, 2005 age 63, suffers stoke
Steve Courson 2005 Steroid whistle blowers for the NFL http://en.wikipedia....i/Steve_Courson crushed to death
Eddie Guerrero, 2005 age 38. acute heart failure due to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease (artery wall thickens as a result of the accumulation of fatty materials such as cholesterol)
Hans Ossner, 2006 age 64 cancer
Dave Barno, 2006 age 35 dead lifting while back was broken
Russ Knipp 2006 age 63 heart attack

My understanding is in 2013 we have had 12 more well known bodybuilders pass on, including

Nasser El Sonbatey 2013 age 47, Kidney Failure
Casey Viator 2013 age 62, heart attack
Matt Duvall, 2013 age 40 heart attack

And lets not forget those who still hanging on:

Arnold Schwarzenegger triple heart bypass still living
Don Long kidney failure still living
Tom Prince kidney failure still living
Flex Wheeler kidney transplant in 2003 still living
Ed Corney 1999 suffered a heart attack and 2 strokes still living
Boyer Coe August 11th, had quadruple heart bypass surgery. they discovered Boyer's blood that was extremely thick, and three main arteries were almost completely blocked. The doctors performed open heart surgery right then and there he is still living
Danny Padilla survived a heart attack
Mike Martarazzo 39 2004 clogged arteries caused by steroid use(2007 heart attack triple bypass heart surgery) still living

We´ve had numerous soccerplayers dropping dead in my country on the field, the ages ranging from 19-25! Flex Wheelers kidneyproblems is genetic, so is the heartproblems of those who died on the soccerfield and the soccerplayers did not use steroids. My uncle had 2 heartattacks before age of 45! He has never touched roids nor anything. Mentzer was a maniac, he used more roids than anybody. I am not an advocate of heavy steroids abuse! Comeon. Did you even read that list? Depression, heroin, toothinfection (WTF), alzheimers, pnemounia, braincancer and a murdering wife - - is this really caused by steroids? I already said what I wanted to about enlarged hearts and HGH. Personally I don't find this list relevant.

People grow old, when they do they have heartissues, they get cancer, alzheimers. That's life!

[RJ23_1989]

The bulk of that list (which is just a dead bodybuilder list showing causes), died before reaching the age of 50. I wouldn't call that life.

I'm all for responsible steroid use, and have used them myself for over 2 decades - but taking a polypharmacy of gram-level dosages will catch up with you eventually, as this list clearly shows. No doubt there will be more in the years to come. The average life expectancy of a US male is 76 years.

Edited by PatrickM500, 02 October 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[RJ23_1989]

The amount and stacks the pro's take dont really relate to the average steroid cycle tho, just dont overdo it and cycle off as long as youre on at least.

Yes, that's where I was heading. My point exactly. Emulating the pros because none of them have had any problems is a dangerous misconception that is unfortunately all to common. This list does well to dispel that. The first time I saw it I couldn't believe it. Some of those guys were household names for me growing up.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Edited by PatrickM500, 02 October 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[JohnD60]

We´ve had numerous soccerplayers dropping dead in my country on the field, the ages ranging from 19-25! Flex Wheelers kidneyproblems is genetic, so is the heartproblems of those who died on the soccerfield and the soccerplayers did not use steroids. My uncle had 2 heartattacks before age of 45! He has never touched roids nor anything. Mentzer was a maniac, he used more roids than anybody. I am not an advocate of heavy steroids abuse! Comeon. Did you even read that list? Depression, heroin, toothinfection (WTF), alzheimers, pnemounia, braincancer and a murdering wife - - is this really caused by steroids? I already said what I wanted to about enlarged hearts and HGH. Personally I don't find this list relevant.
People grow old, when they do they have heartissues, they get cancer, alzheimers. That's life!

I am not at all familar with euro soccers players but I will agree that the soccer players probably did not use steroids, but I don't see how you can say that with certainty. I would not be surprised at all if most of them used EPO, or some other red blood cell increasing chemical. Heart attack is the big downside of EPO use.

I believe Depression, opiate addiction, and brain cancer (lyle Alzado) all coorelate strongly with Steroid abuse. No, I am not going to look up proof, just sharing what I understand to be the case. I think it is self evident from the list that Steroid abuse increases the chance of heart attack.

Edited by JohnD60, 03 October 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[Raptor87]

We´ve had numerous soccerplayers dropping dead in my country on the field, the ages ranging from 19-25! Flex Wheelers kidneyproblems is genetic, so is the heartproblems of those who died on the soccerfield and the soccerplayers did not use steroids. My uncle had 2 heartattacks before age of 45! He has never touched roids nor anything. Mentzer was a maniac, he used more roids than anybody. I am not an advocate of heavy steroids abuse! Comeon. Did you even read that list? Depression, heroin, toothinfection (WTF), alzheimers, pnemounia, braincancer and a murdering wife - - is this really caused by steroids? I already said what I wanted to about enlarged hearts and HGH. Personally I don't find this list relevant.
People grow old, when they do they have heartissues, they get cancer, alzheimers. That's life!

I am not at all familar with euro soccers players but I will agree that the soccer players probably did not use steroids, but I don't see how you can say that with certainty. I would not be surprised at all if most of them used EPO, or some other red blood cell increasing chemical. Heart attack is the big downside of EPO use.

I believe Depression, opiate addiction, and brain cancer (lyle Alzado) all coorelate strongly with Steroid abuse. No, I am not going to look up proof, just sharing what I understand to be the case. I think it is self evident from the list that Steroid abuse increases the chance of heart attack.

These were basically kids all ranging from amateurleague to pro and no, autopsy clarified that they had a predisposed heartcondition. They are actually discussing to further make cardiac exams for kids in sports due to these very reasons.

[stolpioni]

 

Do you know how much money sports generate? These doctors are doing right by keeping roids out from sports, they are just using the wrong methods.

Arguably allowing steroids would be more honest and likely less dangerous to athletes than the current game of using largely untested research chemicals to evade doping tests... People who want to harm themselves will do so, either way.

 

 

Nobody cares about the athletes. The important thing is not to ruin the sport. So of course steroids should be banned.

[nowayout]

 

 

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick.

I think these guys would disagree with you..

Mike Mentzer died 2001 age 49 heart complications
Ray Mentzer died 2001 age 47 Berger's disease(build-up of cholesterol plaques in the arteries), endocarditis (an infection of the lining of the heart)
Ron Teufel died 2002 age 45 liver failure
Scott Klein died 2003 age 30 kidney failure and heart failure
Sonny Schmidt died 2004 age 51 cancer
Robert Benavente 2004 age 30 massive heart attack
Charles Durr 2005 age 44 enlarged heart
Don Youngblood 2005 age 51 massive heart attack
Paul Demayo 2005 age 38 heroin overdose
Fannie Barrios 2005 age 41 (female) apparent stroke
Eric Otero 2006 age 37 infection in his tooth that entered his bloodstream
Eduardo Kawak 2006 age 47 heart attack
Rob Sager 2007 age 29 HEART FAILURE
Greg Deferro 2007 age 53 heart disease
Dan Puckett 2007 age 22 heart condition
Shelley Beattie 2008 age 39 (female) depression for six weeks before she hung herself
Joe Meeko 2009 age 48 Lyme disease
Luke Wood 2011 age 35 kidney failure and heart failure
Carlos Rodriguez 1991 age 48 stomach cancer
Mohammed Benaziza 1992 age 33 he took an injection of clenbuterol
Ray McNeil 1995 age 29 killed by his wife
Andreas Münzer 1996 age 31 liver and then kidneys failed
Johnny Fuller 2006 age 62 cancer
Wilfred Sylvester 2006 age 62 alzheimers
Derrick Whitsett 2004 age 38 heart attack
Trevor Smith 2004 age 33 No official cause but he was 400lbs 6ft 1"
Curtis Leffler 1998 age 36 heart attack
Hans Hopstaken 2002 age 45 unspecified heart condition, or pnuemonia
Art Atwood 2011 age 38 heart attack
Bj johns 1995-1996? age 34 New Zealand Heart attack
lou barrie 2001 age 40 died instantly after a massive heart
Claudia Bianchi 2004 age 34 blocked arteries
Big Boss Man' Ray Traylor 2004 age 41 heart attack
Marianna Komlos 2004 age 35 breast cancer
Luke Iams 2003 age unsure 40's heart attack
Anthony Clark 2005 age 39 massive heart attack
Mannie Hamilton 2005 age 62 heart attack
Roger Estep 2005 brain cancer
John Riggins 2005 age 33 kidneys failed, liver stopped functioning, lungs filling up with fluid and he has pneumonia
John Ware 2005 Age 46 (former PLer; current football coach) heart attack
Doug Young, 2005 age 61, powerlifter massive heart attack
Norm Dabish, 2005 age 46, Co-founder of Powerhouse Gyms. heart attack
Herb Glossbrenner, 2005 age 63, suffers stoke
Steve Courson 2005 Steroid whistle blowers for the NFL http://en.wikipedia....i/Steve_Courson crushed to death
Eddie Guerrero, 2005 age 38. acute heart failure due to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease (artery wall thickens as a result of the accumulation of fatty materials such as cholesterol)
Hans Ossner, 2006 age 64 cancer
Dave Barno, 2006 age 35 dead lifting while back was broken
Russ Knipp 2006 age 63 heart attack

My understanding is in 2013 we have had 12 more well known bodybuilders pass on, including

Nasser El Sonbatey 2013 age 47, Kidney Failure
Casey Viator 2013 age 62, heart attack
Matt Duvall, 2013 age 40 heart attack

And lets not forget those who still hanging on:

Arnold Schwarzenegger triple heart bypass still living
Don Long kidney failure still living
Tom Prince kidney failure still living
Flex Wheeler kidney transplant in 2003 still living
Ed Corney 1999 suffered a heart attack and 2 strokes still living
Boyer Coe August 11th, had quadruple heart bypass surgery. they discovered Boyer's blood that was extremely thick, and three main arteries were almost completely blocked. The doctors performed open heart surgery right then and there he is still living
Danny Padilla survived a heart attack
Mike Martarazzo 39 2004 clogged arteries caused by steroid use(2007 heart attack triple bypass heart surgery) still living

 

Did you even read that list? Depression, heroin, toothinfection (WTF), alzheimers, pnemounia, braincancer and a murdering wife - - is this really caused by steroids? I already said what I wanted to about enlarged hearts and HGH. Personally I don't find this list relevant.
 

So because a small handful died of other causes, you are going to use that to delude yourself into ignoring the heart and kidney problems in the overwhelming majority of that list?

[Raptor87]

 

 

 

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick.

I think these guys would disagree with you..

Mike Mentzer died 2001 age 49 heart complications
Ray Mentzer died 2001 age 47 Berger's disease(build-up of cholesterol plaques in the arteries), endocarditis (an infection of the lining of the heart)
Ron Teufel died 2002 age 45 liver failure
Scott Klein died 2003 age 30 kidney failure and heart failure
Sonny Schmidt died 2004 age 51 cancer
Robert Benavente 2004 age 30 massive heart attack
Charles Durr 2005 age 44 enlarged heart
Don Youngblood 2005 age 51 massive heart attack
Paul Demayo 2005 age 38 heroin overdose
Fannie Barrios 2005 age 41 (female) apparent stroke
Eric Otero 2006 age 37 infection in his tooth that entered his bloodstream
Eduardo Kawak 2006 age 47 heart attack
Rob Sager 2007 age 29 HEART FAILURE
Greg Deferro 2007 age 53 heart disease
Dan Puckett 2007 age 22 heart condition
Shelley Beattie 2008 age 39 (female) depression for six weeks before she hung herself
Joe Meeko 2009 age 48 Lyme disease
Luke Wood 2011 age 35 kidney failure and heart failure
Carlos Rodriguez 1991 age 48 stomach cancer
Mohammed Benaziza 1992 age 33 he took an injection of clenbuterol
Ray McNeil 1995 age 29 killed by his wife
Andreas Münzer 1996 age 31 liver and then kidneys failed
Johnny Fuller 2006 age 62 cancer
Wilfred Sylvester 2006 age 62 alzheimers
Derrick Whitsett 2004 age 38 heart attack
Trevor Smith 2004 age 33 No official cause but he was 400lbs 6ft 1"
Curtis Leffler 1998 age 36 heart attack
Hans Hopstaken 2002 age 45 unspecified heart condition, or pnuemonia
Art Atwood 2011 age 38 heart attack
Bj johns 1995-1996? age 34 New Zealand Heart attack
lou barrie 2001 age 40 died instantly after a massive heart
Claudia Bianchi 2004 age 34 blocked arteries
Big Boss Man' Ray Traylor 2004 age 41 heart attack
Marianna Komlos 2004 age 35 breast cancer
Luke Iams 2003 age unsure 40's heart attack
Anthony Clark 2005 age 39 massive heart attack
Mannie Hamilton 2005 age 62 heart attack
Roger Estep 2005 brain cancer
John Riggins 2005 age 33 kidneys failed, liver stopped functioning, lungs filling up with fluid and he has pneumonia
John Ware 2005 Age 46 (former PLer; current football coach) heart attack
Doug Young, 2005 age 61, powerlifter massive heart attack
Norm Dabish, 2005 age 46, Co-founder of Powerhouse Gyms. heart attack
Herb Glossbrenner, 2005 age 63, suffers stoke
Steve Courson 2005 Steroid whistle blowers for the NFL http://en.wikipedia....i/Steve_Courson crushed to death
Eddie Guerrero, 2005 age 38. acute heart failure due to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease (artery wall thickens as a result of the accumulation of fatty materials such as cholesterol)
Hans Ossner, 2006 age 64 cancer
Dave Barno, 2006 age 35 dead lifting while back was broken
Russ Knipp 2006 age 63 heart attack

My understanding is in 2013 we have had 12 more well known bodybuilders pass on, including

Nasser El Sonbatey 2013 age 47, Kidney Failure
Casey Viator 2013 age 62, heart attack
Matt Duvall, 2013 age 40 heart attack

And lets not forget those who still hanging on:

Arnold Schwarzenegger triple heart bypass still living
Don Long kidney failure still living
Tom Prince kidney failure still living
Flex Wheeler kidney transplant in 2003 still living
Ed Corney 1999 suffered a heart attack and 2 strokes still living
Boyer Coe August 11th, had quadruple heart bypass surgery. they discovered Boyer's blood that was extremely thick, and three main arteries were almost completely blocked. The doctors performed open heart surgery right then and there he is still living
Danny Padilla survived a heart attack
Mike Martarazzo 39 2004 clogged arteries caused by steroid use(2007 heart attack triple bypass heart surgery) still living

 

Did you even read that list? Depression, heroin, toothinfection (WTF), alzheimers, pnemounia, braincancer and a murdering wife - - is this really caused by steroids? I already said what I wanted to about enlarged hearts and HGH. Personally I don't find this list relevant.
 

So because a small handful died of other causes, you are going to use that to delude yourself into ignoring the heart and kidney problems in the overwhelming majority of that list?

 

 

I think that list is shit and we need further research with real proven studies.
 

[Mind]

 

There is actually nothing that supports that bodybuilders have a lower life expectancy, even if they have used. There's no studies, there is no supported evidence and I think that if one cleans up his act after a certain age, he can have a long lasting life as long as he doesn't get sick.

I think these guys would disagree with you..

Mike Mentzer died 2001 age 49 heart complications
Ray Mentzer died 2001 age 47 Berger's disease(build-up of cholesterol plaques in the arteries), endocarditis (an infection of the lining of the heart)
Ron Teufel died 2002 age 45 liver failure
Scott Klein died 2003 age 30 kidney failure and heart failure
Sonny Schmidt died 2004 age 51 cancer
Robert Benavente 2004 age 30 massive heart attack
Charles Durr 2005 age 44 enlarged heart
Don Youngblood 2005 age 51 massive heart attack
Paul Demayo 2005 age 38 heroin overdose
Fannie Barrios 2005 age 41 (female) apparent stroke
Eric Otero 2006 age 37 infection in his tooth that entered his bloodstream
Eduardo Kawak 2006 age 47 heart attack
Rob Sager 2007 age 29 HEART FAILURE
Greg Deferro 2007 age 53 heart disease
Dan Puckett 2007 age 22 heart condition
Shelley Beattie 2008 age 39 (female) depression for six weeks before she hung herself
Joe Meeko 2009 age 48 Lyme disease
Luke Wood 2011 age 35 kidney failure and heart failure
Carlos Rodriguez 1991 age 48 stomach cancer
Mohammed Benaziza 1992 age 33 he took an injection of clenbuterol
Ray McNeil 1995 age 29 killed by his wife
Andreas Münzer 1996 age 31 liver and then kidneys failed
Johnny Fuller 2006 age 62 cancer
Wilfred Sylvester 2006 age 62 alzheimers
Derrick Whitsett 2004 age 38 heart attack
Trevor Smith 2004 age 33 No official cause but he was 400lbs 6ft 1"
Curtis Leffler 1998 age 36 heart attack
Hans Hopstaken 2002 age 45 unspecified heart condition, or pnuemonia
Art Atwood 2011 age 38 heart attack
Bj johns 1995-1996? age 34 New Zealand Heart attack
lou barrie 2001 age 40 died instantly after a massive heart
Claudia Bianchi 2004 age 34 blocked arteries
Big Boss Man' Ray Traylor 2004 age 41 heart attack
Marianna Komlos 2004 age 35 breast cancer
Luke Iams 2003 age unsure 40's heart attack
Anthony Clark 2005 age 39 massive heart attack
Mannie Hamilton 2005 age 62 heart attack
Roger Estep 2005 brain cancer
John Riggins 2005 age 33 kidneys failed, liver stopped functioning, lungs filling up with fluid and he has pneumonia
John Ware 2005 Age 46 (former PLer; current football coach) heart attack
Doug Young, 2005 age 61, powerlifter massive heart attack
Norm Dabish, 2005 age 46, Co-founder of Powerhouse Gyms. heart attack
Herb Glossbrenner, 2005 age 63, suffers stoke
Steve Courson 2005 Steroid whistle blowers for the NFL http://en.wikipedia....i/Steve_Courson crushed to death
Eddie Guerrero, 2005 age 38. acute heart failure due to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease (artery wall thickens as a result of the accumulation of fatty materials such as cholesterol)
Hans Ossner, 2006 age 64 cancer
Dave Barno, 2006 age 35 dead lifting while back was broken
Russ Knipp 2006 age 63 heart attack

My understanding is in 2013 we have had 12 more well known bodybuilders pass on, including

Nasser El Sonbatey 2013 age 47, Kidney Failure
Casey Viator 2013 age 62, heart attack
Matt Duvall, 2013 age 40 heart attack

And lets not forget those who still hanging on:

Arnold Schwarzenegger triple heart bypass still living
Don Long kidney failure still living
Tom Prince kidney failure still living
Flex Wheeler kidney transplant in 2003 still living
Ed Corney 1999 suffered a heart attack and 2 strokes still living
Boyer Coe August 11th, had quadruple heart bypass surgery. they discovered Boyer's blood that was extremely thick, and three main arteries were almost completely blocked. The doctors performed open heart surgery right then and there he is still living
Danny Padilla survived a heart attack
Mike Martarazzo 39 2004 clogged arteries caused by steroid use(2007 heart attack triple bypass heart surgery) still living

 

 

The list does need context.

 

What percentage of body-builders is this? 1%, 0.001%

 

Is their rate of kidney and heart problems greater/lesser than the general population?

 

Do they live longer/shorter than the general population?

 

What proportion of them were genetically pre-disposed to heart of kidney problems? Something we will probably never be able to find out.

 

I am not saying that steroids at the level pro body-builders are using them are healthy, just that this list doesn't provide statistically relevant evidence (as presented).

[proileri]

I think the major problem with high intake of steroids is that they also cause changes in heart muscle, which somewhat increases chance of heart problems. Oral steroids also increase risk to liver, kidneys etc.

 

Of course, when it comes to professional bodybuilders, it's not just the steroids. These guys eat a massive amount of food - including animal fat and protein - and push themselves hard on daily basis, so it's not the healthiest lifestyle. Steroids do help to grow muscle, but as the competition is using them as well, it becomes a matter of both using a relatively high amount of steroids, and training as hard as you can to maximize the growth. While it's a 'beauty contest', the amount of daily training is the same as in any professional sport, and their careers can last for 20 years or more.

 

It's really the same case in all the professional sports, where the top athletes get paid millions. It urgest people to push themselves to the limit, and to take risks with their health.

 

 

Edited by proileri, 21 February 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[scottknl]

This guy lived the life and regretted it. 

 

Mike Martarazzo gave this interview in 2009 and he is now past away.

 

http://www.musclespr...a-first-chance/

[Raptor87]

This guy lived the life and regretted it. 

 

Mike Martarazzo gave this interview in 2009 and he is now past away.

 

http://www.musclespr...a-first-chance/

 

If I could go back in time, those things never would have happened. I would have gone back to driving a truck. I have no doubt in my mind that the primary cause of my problem–the biggest thing–was the chemicals. It was the steroids, the growth hormones, the diuretics. We take Cytomel to lose fat, knowing it’s an incredibly powerful thyroid drug, and that’s only one of the many, many drugs out there taken by everyone, from amateurs to the highest level in the world.

 

 

Worst were the chemicals. I have so many memories of being alone in a hotel room the week, five days or two days before a contest, and doing unspeakable things to my body–steroids, growth hormones, diuretics–anything and everything that we as bodybuilders do to achieve a certain look. The greatest danger, though, is that, while dieting and training stay the same through the years, there’s a compulsion to experiment more wildly with chemicals

 

 

 

Put it away. Only a handful of men on this entire planet make barely a decent living at bodybuilding. I happened to be one who did for 15 years, but I probably took 20 years off my life.

 

 

Is this what we are talking about? Stacking, mixing drugs? Extreme doses? Thyroidhormones, diuretics etc?? There is a difference in between use and abuse!

[panhedonic]

 

 

Well Ronnie Coleman who's the best bodybuilder ever who also probably abused many different combinations of drugs is still alive at age 47 today. He's even making a comeback after a 3 year hiatus after having an injury.

 

OMFG!! Alive at the age of.....47??? 

 

He holds the sacred secret of longevity!!

 

Halleluja!

 

Let's close this forum, we don't need it anymore. 

[Adaptogen]

Manohar Aich, India's first Mr. Universe, lived to 104, and squatted over 600 lbs.

Bill Pearl is still alive at 90 and was a 5 time Mr. Universe winner.

[Youvan]

Manohar Aich, India's first Mr. Universe, lived to 104, and squatted over 600 lbs.

Bill Pearl is still alive at 90 and was a 5 time Mr. Universe winner.

Substance abuse during the golden age of bodybuilding wasn't as prevalent as it is now though. High protein is beneficial at old age, so I guess it makes sense that bodybuilders don't die at 50 or anything lol