602 replies to this topic

[niner]

Would it be possible to express ship a sample to a country where they do offer the short telomere load assay? I suppose that would be quite a hassle, if they don't make it convenient. It's kind of surprising that they aren't in the US, considering that it's probably the largest market for such tests. FDA issue?

[Louis]

I would definitely do it if you know of a way. Let me know if you have any ideas.
(It would probably have to be shipped to some place in Spain.)

Cost isn't the problem for me. Availability is.

--Louis

[Getm]

A new movie about Product B, enjoy.
I only put the movie here, I don't want to propagate Product B, only to see if it works

Watch the 28'th minute of the video and please make some comments for me. Thanks.

[Louis]

Whether intentional or not, the science is clearly being misrepresented in the video, particularly the DePinho experiments. If intentional to sell the product, the guy narrating is a real scum bag to do that -- he really hurts the scientific credibility of Sierra Science's mission.

That being said, I am very open minded about the part of the video you are referring to Getm (minute 28). The claim is made that Sierra has demonstrated that certain ingredients in product B increase telomere length of skin cells in vitro. As I've mentioned before, I have seen a significant improvement in the skin on the palms of my hands and feet several weeks after starting product B. This would provide an explanation for that. However, there are many other possible explanations as well that have nothing to do with telomerase.

I noticed that the video provides a start date of January 2012 for the Maria Blasco trial with Product B.

One other comment. My own experience suggests that 4caps/day (as recommended in the video) is an insufficient dose. My experience suggests that it takes at least double that dose to see a real effect.

[niner]

As I've mentioned before, I have seen a significant improvement in the skin on the palms of my hands and feet several weeks after starting product B. This would provide an explanation for that. However, there are many other possible explanations as well that have nothing to do with telomerase.

Yeah, and I would really lean toward the alternate explanations, because I don't see how a few weeks of mild telomere extension could do anything that obvious. And that's assuming that there's any telomere extension at all from Product B. At this point, we don't know if there is or not, although Anthony has some data. From his exceptionally vague hints, I kinda think there's little or no effect. I await the results of the Blasco assay, though. That could be interesting. I would love for there to be a good telomerase activator out there. I don't like to see one promoted when we have zero evidence that it works in vivo, though.

[Louis]

You'll get no arguments from me on any of those points. My personal experience is purely anecdotal. I'm looking forward to the publication of some rigorous science. It's a good sign though that they appear to be working towards that.

[Louis]

The only company currently offering LifeLength testing for percentage of short telomeres is Labco in Spain:
http://www.labco.eu
(LifeLength is Maria Blasco's company.)

If anyone knows of a way to have blood drawn in the USA and shipped to Labco in Spain, I would greatly appreciate your advice.

In return for any information that helps me to get these measurements made, I pledge to post my testing results every few months as I continue on my regimen with Product B.

I would like to get a true scientific answer as to whether or not my positive results with product B are a result of a decrease in my load of short telomeres.
Testing from LifeLength is the only legitimate way for me to directly test that hypothesis in vivo.

Thanks, Louis

[Anthony_Loera]

Louis, you do know of the folks in Canada that do telomere testing?

Speaking of which, I am looking for a flow cytometer for a college in the southern California area, I believe many companies have gone out of business, so if you know of decent deals, please IM me and let me know. We are considering a couple of partnerships, and the machinery could be necessary in Q1 of 2012.

Cheers

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 15 December 2011 - 05:21 PM.

[sunshinefrost]

I'm in canada, montreal. Let me know if i can help!

[Product-B-User]

I read through a ton of comments here, and I can't remember all the questions people have, but someone had asked if Product B is stronger than TA-65. I was at the launch of Product B and heard Bill Andrews indicate Product B is much stronger than TA-65. I do know that TA-65 contains an ingredient or 2 that the "all natural" John Anderson wouldn't want in the product. Product B is all botanical. I don't know the complete science of what is in Product B (in fact, only John Anderson knows the real name of the Telomerase activators). Bill Andrews doesn't even know the name of them, he just knows them by number id and he knows they induce Telomerase.

I've been personally using Product B for 5 months and the results have been far beyond my expectations. Please, don't attempt to label me an "MLM Pusher", because I for one am not a fan of hype and misrepresentation. Aside from having a stronger immune system, I can't for the life of me figure out why my severe allergy problems I've had my whole life were hardly even a problem this past allergy season up here in the Redwoods, where my allergies are the worst. No medication works, only a steroid shot would get rid of the allergies, and only for a few weeks. My chronic sinusitis cleared out and I could breathe through my nose finally while sleeping. My skin looks younger and healthier. My eyesight has improved by 30%. My endurance is greater during intense workouts and I recover faster.

I have a friend who has had tons of health problems, including diabetes and thyroid disfunction, who started using Product B just about 3 months ago. He's using other Isagenix products and has lost 30 pounds doing so. However, when he got on Product B, it took his health to a whole new level. He is no longer on blood pressure meds, but the most incredible thing was when I saw him 2 months after being on the product (Product B) his white hairs were dark gray, and some of them have come back in dark brown. He walked up to me when he saw he saying "look at my hair"! He looks 10 years younger, easily.

It's important for you folks to know the FDA's disdain for natural products, especially if those products are manufactured and distributed by an MLM. For this reason, Isagenix won't allow Dr. Andrews or his team at Sierra Sciences to get into much detail until the double blind studies have concluded, which happen to be performed by none other than Maria Blasco -Head of Spain's Cancer Research Center and known as the #1 Telomere Biologist in the world. According to Bill Andrews, she is a Genius.

I have other friends who have said their hair is growing back in where there was balding. Haven't personally seen it myself, but they had no reason to try to sell me anything.

So keep in mind that Isagenix is terrified of the FDA and don't want associates out there making outrageous claims, period. I am confident that once they have all the scientific backing that we won't have to be so mum about it. Isagenix doesn't even want us telling people it induces Telomerase, even though we've got it on good world from Bill!

[Product-B-User]

The only company currently offering LifeLength testing for percentage of short telomeres is Labco in Spain:
http://www.labco.eu
(LifeLength is Maria Blasco's company.)

If anyone knows of a way to have blood drawn in the USA and shipped to Labco in Spain, I would greatly appreciate your advice.

In return for any information that helps me to get these measurements made, I pledge to post my testing results every few months as I continue on my regimen with Product B.

I would like to get a true scientific answer as to whether or not my positive results with product B are a result of a decrease in my load of short telomeres.
Testing from LifeLength is the only legitimate way for me to directly test that hypothesis in vivo.

Thanks, Louis

Spectracell Laboratories is the only lab in the United States that offers Telomere testing: [commercial link removed -mod]

Edited by niner, 21 December 2011 - 12:15 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

User,

1- Spectracell Laboratories does not use the Flow-fish telomere test. Use the canadian lab Repeat Diagnostics http://repeatdiagnostics.com/ . In my opinion they are much more accurate and better than Spectracell.
2- you said "I've been personally using Product B for 5 months" ... Product B was Launched August 14th, today is December 21... that's more like 4 months. However if you had access to Product B before August 14th... then I can only consider you quite an intimate puppet of Isagenix. The fact that your name and first posts all point to this kind of marketing simply looks pretty obvious.
3- Your statement: "Isagenix doesn't even want us telling people it induces Telomerase, even though we've got it on good world from Bill!". Now that statement really brings home the point that you certainly are a company puppet, using an anonymous account to push the product, while plugging in Bill's name without any assurances from the company or the product whatsoever... instead, you put Bill Andrews in front of the freight train to do the heavy lifting of credibility for the product...because you state he has given his word.

So if you are relying on Bill's word...
Then what does that really mean if a top professor and trained researcher who has years doing bench work (and continuously teaching methods and techniques to students seeking their Ph.D. as well as post grads doing research) ... shows the world that a bottle purchased from Isagenix, shows that the formula (in my opinion..) stinks when it comes to telomerase activation in immune cells? Heck, I suspect this possibility could happen, couldn't it?

Bill Andrews, I know you read these posts. And... you probably think that I am a little hard on you. So here's a suggestion because I feel your situation is quite unique. I suggest that you please re-test Product B by buying a bottle, and testing it again using standard testing found in Rita's paper. As a matter of fact, test the following Lot by asking Isagenix for a bottle as they are required to keep samples of each lot according to cGMP processes. The Lot is "LOT#08145411".

I really want you to make sure, that the product you are backing up with your word (as user has stated)... is made exactly to your specs, before marketing it to the extent where your credibility could suffer if somehow the product is shown to be a flop when it comes to telomerase activation. It's ok, to back-peddle if the company you are doing business with, does things (or the formulation) differently than you would like them to.

It's ok to be like Dr. Sinclair, as he back-peddled with the Vivix product and decided to limit his exposure with that product. I personally believe that he did the right thing, and in my book Dr. Sinclair is still a great scientist who continues to do research and is looked upon as a top researcher in the Sirtuin field. If you need help in your lab (as you seem to suggest in an email I have seen), then consider hiring a post grad that was trained by or worked with Dr. Valenzuela, I highly recommend them.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 December 2011 - 07:28 AM.

[AdamI]

I read through a ton of comments here, and I can't remember all the questions people have, but someone had asked if Product B is stronger than TA-65. I was at the launch of Product B and heard Bill Andrews indicate Product B is much stronger than TA-65. I do know that TA-65 contains an ingredient or 2 that the "all natural" John Anderson wouldn't want in the product. Product B is all botanical. I don't know the complete science of what is in Product B (in fact, only John Anderson knows the real name of the Telomerase activators). Bill Andrews doesn't even know the name of them, he just knows them by number id and he knows they induce Telomerase.
brown. He walked up to me when he saw he saying "look at my hair"! He looks 10 years younger, easily.

Hi,
Soo you have any before and after picture that you could upload on you or your friend? That looks soo much younger now?
The only before and after picture we in the forum have found on the net, has not been convincing. But then that woman had not taken it as long as you...

[Louis]

Great news: I just learned that Life Length telomere testing is now available in the US !
http://www.prnewswir...-135241698.html

The Life Length press release is dated December 8.

[Louis]

Louis, you do know of the folks in Canada that do telomere testing?

Speaking of which, I am looking for a flow cytometer for a college in the southern California area, I believe many companies have gone out of business, so if you know of decent deals, please IM me and let me know. We are considering a couple of partnerships, and the machinery could be necessary in Q1 of 2012.

Cheers

A

Yes, I'm familiar with Repeat. They are only capable of measuring mean telomere length.

To date, there's no published study that demonstrates TA-65 has any effect on mean telomere length in humans, so I would not consider it a reliable method to test product B. The published TA-65 study however has demonstrated that TA-65 increases percentage of short telomeres. Currently, only Life Length offers a reliable test for percentage of short telomeres.

I've seen good deals for flow cytometers on ebay. In general, ebay is an excellent source for used test equipment.

Louis

[Anthony_Loera]

Ebay is interesting,

although if anyone knows of others, IM me or let me know.

Cheers
A

[niner]

Great news: I just learned that Life Length telomere testing is now available in the US !
http://www.prnewswir...-135241698.html

The Life Length press release is dated December 8.

Thanks for that, Louis! I just called Yenvy Truong at ADL and got some information on this. ADL (Age Diagnostic Laboratories) is the North American partner of Life Length. They work through doctors, and 'doctor' sounds like it's defined somewhat loosely. Basically they need a responsible person who can manage confidential patient information. Part of the Life Length process is the collection of a large amount of health (and probably lifestyle) information. They are doing some epidemiology along with the testing, which is probably something that Maria Blasco is interested in. The cost of the test to the doctor is $700. Ms. Truong said they expected the typical consumer cost to be about $1000. I asked if there was much demand for the test, and she said there was a lot. With all the telomere talk in the media, that doesn't surprise me. They will probably begin shipping the test kits to doctors in about a month.

[niner]

Please, don't attempt to label me an "MLM Pusher"

Heaven forbid.

a stronger immune system
My chronic sinusitis cleared out and I could breathe through my nose finally while sleeping.
My skin looks younger and healthier.
My eyesight has improved by 30%.
My endurance is greater during intense workouts and I recover faster.
his white hairs were dark gray, and some of them have come back in dark brown.
their hair is growing back in where there was balding.

I don't believe you.

[AdamI]

Please, don't attempt to label me an "MLM Pusher"

Heaven forbid.

a stronger immune system
My chronic sinusitis cleared out and I could breathe through my nose finally while sleeping.
My skin looks younger and healthier.
My eyesight has improved by 30%.
My endurance is greater during intense workouts and I recover faster.
his white hairs were dark gray, and some of them have come back in dark brown.
their hair is growing back in where there was balding.

I don't believe you.

I also heard your breast size grows, and guys grows several inches!

[Louis]

I'm also in the process of signing up with ADL myself !

Finally we have a method available to objectively test these various telomerase activating products in actual humans.

Rather than continue speculating about whether or not product B really works, I strongly suggest that anyone taking product B (or planning on taking product B) sign up for this exact test from ADL / LifeLength. This will provide you with a true scientific answer to that question.

[Product-B-User]

Please, don't attempt to label me an "MLM Pusher"

Heaven forbid.

a stronger immune system
My chronic sinusitis cleared out and I could breathe through my nose finally while sleeping.
My skin looks younger and healthier.
My eyesight has improved by 30%.
My endurance is greater during intense workouts and I recover faster.
his white hairs were dark gray, and some of them have come back in dark brown.
their hair is growing back in where there was balding.

I don't believe you.

I never expected anyone to believe me. Just sharing my experience. Frankly, I don't care whether or not you believe me! Why would you want to live longer in such a negative and pessimistic state of mind? Please, don't take Product B!

[Product-B-User]

I read through a ton of comments here, and I can't remember all the questions people have, but someone had asked if Product B is stronger than TA-65. I was at the launch of Product B and heard Bill Andrews indicate Product B is much stronger than TA-65. I do know that TA-65 contains an ingredient or 2 that the "all natural" John Anderson wouldn't want in the product. Product B is all botanical. I don't know the complete science of what is in Product B (in fact, only John Anderson knows the real name of the Telomerase activators). Bill Andrews doesn't even know the name of them, he just knows them by number id and he knows they induce Telomerase.
brown. He walked up to me when he saw he saying "look at my hair"! He looks 10 years younger, easily.

Hi,
Soo you have any before and after picture that you could upload on you or your friend? That looks soo much younger now?
The only before and after picture we in the forum have found on the net, has not been convincing. But then that woman had not taken it as long as you...

Adam, I did take a before pic but it was for weight loss, however, I do believe you'll be able to see a difference in hair color. He didn't tell me he was going to start taking Product B, otherwise I would have taken a pic of his hair since there were many reports of this before he started taking it. I'll see if I can visit him this week and take a picture of his hair. Please remind me if I forget. I am a little reluctant as there are many on this thread who seem to gravitate, in their minds (must be a subconscious programming) to negativity and doubt all too easily. You seem open minded so I'll be happy to do so for you, even though I will be accused of "photo-shopping" the after pic

The results I shared yesterday already got some negative feedback. One person even stating "I don't believe you" without even further inquiry!

Since typing above I've been trying to upload an image to my blog so I can get an image url, as it is requiring me to do, but my internet is going so slow it won't upload to my blog. I'll have to try later with the before pic.

[AdamI]

You can try http://tinypic.com/ but don't know if there is a maximum size of the file you upload... then you just post the link if you upload it there.
People are sceptics on product B because there is no evidence yet. But a picture will do someone what fine. You said your friend looked 10 years younger. Maybe he got some picture as well...

[Product-B-User]

User,

1- Spectracell Laboratories does not use the Flow-fish telomere test. Use the canadian lab Repeat Diagnostics http://repeatdiagnostics.com/ . In my opinion they are much more accurate and better than Spectracell.
2- you said "I've been personally using Product B for 5 months" ... Product B was Launched August 14th, today is December 21... that's more like 4 months. However if you had access to Product B before August 14th... then I can only consider you quite an intimate puppet of Isagenix. The fact that your name and first posts all point to this kind of marketing simply looks pretty obvious.
3- Your statement: "Isagenix doesn't even want us telling people it induces Telomerase, even though we've got it on good world from Bill!". Now that statement really brings home the point that you certainly are a company puppet, using an anonymous account to push the product, while plugging in Bill's name without any assurances from the company or the product whatsoever... instead, you put Bill Andrews in front of the freight train to do the heavy lifting of credibility for the product...because you state he has given his word.

So if you are relying on Bill's word...
Then what does that really mean if a top professor and trained researcher who has years doing bench work (and continuously teaching methods and techniques to students seeking their Ph.D. as well as post grads doing research) ... shows the world that a bottle purchased from Isagenix, shows that the formula (in my opinion..) stinks when it comes to telomerase activation in immune cells? Heck, I suspect this possibility could happen, couldn't it?

Bill Andrews, I know you read these posts. And... you probably think that I am a little hard on you. So here's a suggestion because I feel your situation is quite unique. I suggest that you please re-test Product B by buying a bottle, and testing it again using standard testing found in Rita's paper. As a matter of fact, test the following Lot by asking Isagenix for a bottle as they are required to keep samples of each lot according to cGMP processes. The Lot is "LOT#08145411".

I really want you to make sure, that the product you are backing up with your word (as user has stated)... is made exactly to your specs, before marketing it to the extent where your credibility could suffer if somehow the product is shown to be a flop when it comes to telomerase activation. It's ok, to back-peddle if the company you are doing business with, does things (or the formulation) differently than you would like them to.

It's ok to be like Dr. Sinclair, as he back-peddled with the Vivix product and decided to limit his exposure with that product. I personally believe that he did the right thing, and in my book Dr. Sinclair is still a great scientist who continues to do research and is looked upon as a top researcher in the Sirtuin field. If you need help in your lab (as you seem to suggest in an email I have seen), then consider hiring a post grad that was trained by or worked with Dr. Valenzuela, I highly recommend them.

Cheers
A

Anthony, you appear to be a negative and combative communicator (not a good first impression, but I guess people tend to behave that way when communicating online) so I won't engage you in dialogue. I will say, however, that I am an Independent Executive with Isagenix and have nothing to hide, as you seem to think. I enjoy making a living improving the health of others and I don't feel the least bit ashamed by it. I don't understand what has taken place in your subconscious makeup, but your first communication to me implies something unhealthy. I don't care to push an Isagenix product, especially on a forum full of people with scientific minds that will believe nothing but pure scientific data, understandably, I just wanted to throw in my experiences and be a part of this topic when the Maria Blasco studies conclude. By the way, my reasonable and logical mind tells me that Bill Andrews and John Anderson would not have approached Blasco for some double blind studies if they had something to hide. Instead of thinking of only reasons to disbelieve, I recommend balancing the process with finding reason TO believe. Balance is healthy

Having said this, I'll take Bill Andrews, the man who was recently featured in Popular Science Magazine (http://www.popsci.co...would-stop-time) and who discovered human Telomerase, word over yours any day. It's quite comical to see you giving him advice! When was the last time you were featured in Popular Science? Before I take anything you say as doctrine, can you convince me that your credentials are greater than Dr. Andrews?

[Hebbeh]

There's nothing special in product B. Just small amounts of the standard herbal extracts that many of us has been using for years. In fact I use almost all of the extracts in much larger doses and have for very long time for potential health benefits. But nothing spectacular.

[Product-B-User]

Hebbeh, Product B is a proprietary blend. There are 5 ingredients (these are the Telomerase activators) that aren't mentioned on the label and will not be until John Anderson (formulator), not Bill Andrews, has the patents. Send me a personal message if you want to listen to a Conference call with Bill and John and I'll send it to you.

[Moonlitnight]

Product-B-User. I am really surprised about that. Is it legal to leave ingredients off a label? What if someone were allergic to one of them? I realize very few, if any, people would be allergic to telomerase activators but surely there must be some law or precedent covering the omission of ingredients. Up here above the 49th, we'd probably be closed down (and in many cases have been) for breaching regulatory standards. We might even be beamed off somewhere nasty. I have been taking most of Product-B's ingredients for over six years, plus cycloastragenol/ astragaloside IV for six months. I haven't noticed anything (yet).

[Louis]

Hebbeh, Product B is a proprietary blend. There are 5 ingredients (these are the Telomerase activators) that aren't mentioned on the label and will not be until John Anderson (formulator), not Bill Andrews, has the patents. Send me a personal message if you want to listen to a Conference call with Bill and John and I'll send it to you.

This statement in not true.
By law, ALL of the ingredients must be listed on the label.

Certain ingredients may be fractionated/purified, including the activators. They are not required by law to specify the degree of fractionation or purification.

[AdamI]

Product-B-User. I am really surprised about that. Is it legal to leave ingredients off a label? What if someone were allergic to one of them? I realize very few, if any, people would be allergic to telomerase activators but surely there must be some law or precedent covering the omission of ingredients. Up here above the 49th, we'd probably be closed down (and in many cases have been) for breaching regulatory standards. We might even be beamed off somewhere nasty. I have been taking most of Product-B's ingredients for over six years, plus cycloastragenol/ astragaloside IV for six months. I haven't noticed anything (yet).

Anistor how do you take Cyclo and AIV? What time on the day and what do you eat with it, because it's mostlikely that...
I have not taken it my self soo don't know if it works. but the guidelines are before bed 30-90 minutes. And with some fat snack like Nuts. Not omega-3 though that don't count.
Becuase the bile movement accord to one that sells TA-65...

[Louis]

There's nothing special in product B. Just small amounts of the standard herbal extracts that many of us has been using for years. In fact I use almost all of the extracts in much larger doses and have for very long time for potential health benefits. But nothing spectacular.

By that logic, TA-65 is simply astragalus extract "that many of us have been using for years".
That's all the law requires TA-Sciences to list on the label.